What Is Northern Soul?

[Dazdakin]

Ok then, lets have a proper chittychat about what EXACTLY northern soul is, and all it's sub groups.

My idea of what NS is, is its not a genra of music of the likes of country&western or reggie as the artists that

make the above styles of music do so in the knowledge that it will without any doubt end up being what it sets

out to be, this goes for all other styles of music. Whereas nobody ever set out to create a piece of NS. This is why

there are so many groups/artists/bands in our music that have about as much soul in them as there is on a tramps shoe.

Northern Soul is what we, the people that follow it, call it, it is without doubt a strange one to quantify but to

us who follow it, its easy with our trained ears to tell even if its Paul Anka/ Dean Parrish/ Vickie Baines/ Beverly Ann

on the vocals, we know.

Northern Soul is beat, pure and simple.

Tamla Motown is a record label, nothing more.

There are different styles within our music and far more complex than just 60's/70's/80's......

My definition is as follows: 60's Doh! says what it is.

Rare 60's in my opinion is a 45 thats been around for ever but since first played has remained rare and hard to obtain, most

importantly has never been booted.

60's "newie" a 45 thats only just been discovered despite the yrs inbetween but most importantly has that required beat,

it doesnot have to be megger rare.

Oldies are 45 that have stood the test of time, been well known and loved by all and been available to the masses as

pressings or the like.

6T's not used as a terminology much these days but was very big in the 80's. Used mainly to describe a certain style

of sound played in the ealier years of the 100 club.

60's Mafia, not so much a style of music but a select group of DJ's playing there tunes at stafford/Oddfellow's/Scotland,

but mainly playing what was then and today called 60's newies.

Modern, normally assosiated with a 45 thats from the same decade as it's being played in, whenever that was.

Simple really if your on or within our scene, time for an asprin if your not.

[Guest kevnewry]

Ok then, lets have a proper chittychat about what EXACTLY northern soul is, and all it's sub groups.

My idea of what NS is, is its not a genra of music of the likes of country&western or reggie as the artists that

make the above styles of music do so in the knowledge that it will without any doubt end up being what it sets

out to be, this goes for all other styles of music. Whereas nobody ever set out to create a piece of NS. This is why

there are so many groups/artists/bands in our music that have about as much soul in them as there is on a tramps shoe.

Northern Soul is what we, the people that follow it, call it, it is without doubt a strange one to quantify but to

us who follow it, its easy with our trained ears to tell even if its Paul Anka/ Dean Parrish/ Vickie Baines/ Beverly Ann

on the vocals, we know.

Northern Soul is beat, pure and simple.

Tamla Motown is a record label, nothing more.

There are different styles within our music and far more complex than just 60's/70's/80's......

My definition is as follows: 60's Doh! says what it is.

Rare 60's in my opinion is a 45 thats been around for ever but since first played has remained rare and hard to obtain, most

importantly has never been booted.

60's "newie" a 45 thats only just been discovered despite the yrs inbetween but most importantly has that required beat,

it doesnot have to be megger rare.

Oldies are 45 that have stood the test of time, been well known and loved by all and been available to the masses as

pressings or the like.

6T's not used as a terminology much these days but was very big in the 80's. Used mainly to describe a certain style

of sound played in the ealier years of the 100 club.

60's Mafia, not so much a style of music but a select group of DJ's playing there tunes at stafford/Oddfellow's/Scotland,

but mainly playing what was then and today called 60's newies.

Modern, normally assosiated with a 45 thats from the same decade as it's being played in, whenever that was.

Simple really if your on or within our scene, time for an asprin if your not.

I'm now beginning to understand your thinking Daz, in some repects you are totally correct. I see from the thread nobody has responded but fook it i could'nt resist.

Up until about five years ago.I had more or less the same view as yourself, but having been to Rugby and Lifeline and a few other venues in between my attidude towards what is "Northern" Soul has changed.

You must realise that in order to keep the whole scene alive it had to evolve, the sub genres you mention were and had to be part and parcel of what now has become the "rare"soul scene.

I respect your view that at Stoke, tried and tested "oldies" that everybody loves fills the floor and yes thats the way things were,but it's tiresome now, cast your mind back 30 years ago and if you had'nt have heard something different at a niter it didnt feel right, well thats how an awful lot of people feel now.

If you put it all into context, the "Northern" Soul of our youth has surpassed us and has grown up, it's still there played in sets by DJ's up and down the country, in between all the other tunes that have been found, stole,borrowed fought over,and copied but yet it's still Soul, Northern was a title that was used and misused and now it's an umbrella of wonderful music!

Kev.

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

spot on and like said Northern soul is not a style that you have to be connected to. Artists are soul artists or could be pop, country and they have made a song or 2 that is Northern soul and gets played on the scene.

But the records that are classed as Northern soul mean something and the thousands out there are something special and that's where people not into it don't get it when we love it and they wonder what it is that is special about it

[Guest Simon]

Ok then, lets have a proper chittychat about what EXACTLY northern soul is, and all it's sub groups.

My idea of what NS is, is its not a genra of music of the likes of country&western or reggie as the artists that

make the above styles of music do so in the knowledge that it will without any doubt end up being what it sets

out to be, this goes for all other styles of music. Whereas nobody ever set out to create a piece of NS. This is why

there are so many groups/artists/bands in our music that have about as much soul in them as there is on a tramps shoe.

This is untrue, Ian Levine, Simon Soussan have set out to create NS, Four Vandalls, Evelyn Thomas 'Weakspot', Venicia Wilson etc.

Northern Soul is what we, the people that follow it, call it, it is without doubt a strange one to quantify but to

us who follow it, its easy with our trained ears to tell even if its Paul Anka/ Dean Parrish/ Vickie Baines/ Beverly Ann

on the vocals, we know.

Northern Soul is beat, pure and simple.

Northern Soul isn't just a beat, infact it comprises all sorts of different beats from 4/4, 2 step, Crossover sound, House etc...Northern Soul is a music that is played at Northern Soul clubs, it can be anything from your classic 4/4 beat to the messiest leftfield record you've ever heard & it doesn't have to be Soul.

Tamla Motown is a record label, nothing more.

Tamla Motown in the sixties comprises records of mainly a 4/4 beat, i would say it is much more than just a record label, it's a movement, it's black Soul musics first move into the white Soul/Pop arena, the seventies version is completely different & is very rarely if ever played on the NS scene, for some reason the NS scene as far as i'm aware in the case of Tamla has only really ever embraced the 6ts side of it.

There are different styles within our music and far more complex than just 60's/70's/80's......

My definition is as follows: 60's Doh! says what it is.

Rare 60's in my opinion is a 45 thats been around for ever but since first played has remained rare and hard to obtain, most

importantly has never been booted.

60's "newie" a 45 thats only just been discovered despite the yrs inbetween but most importantly has that required beat,

it doesnot have to be megger rare.

You seem to be obsessed with beats, it's not always about the beat more the feel i would say, it's more of an instinctive thing that it feels right to be played under the NS umbrella.

Oldies are 45 that have stood the test of time, been well known and loved by all and been available to the masses as

pressings or the like.

6T's not used as a terminology much these days but was very big in the 80's. Used mainly to describe a certain style

of sound played in the ealier years of the 100 club.

60's Mafia, not so much a style of music but a select group of DJ's playing there tunes at stafford/Oddfellow's/Scotland,

but mainly playing what was then and today called 60's newies.

Modern, normally assosiated with a 45 thats from the same decade as it's being played in, whenever that was.

My definition of 'Modern' has always been something from the 7ts onwards, some peeps would say it's current releases but people were calling 7ts tunes 'Modern' back in the 8ts & 9ts.

Simple really if your on or within our scene, time for an asprin if your not.

Simon

[Guest Simon]

...actually i'm talking rubbish about the Tamla bit, there's been plenty of 7ts Tamla played on the scene, Gladys Knight, Martha Reeves 7ts cuts etc, i would say 95% of the stuff i've ever heard played out at NS clubs has been 6ts Tamla.

Simon

[Billywhizz]

Ok then, lets have a proper chittychat about what EXACTLY northern soul is, and all it's sub groups.

My idea of what NS is, is its not a genra of music of the likes of country&western or reggie as the artists that

make the above styles of music do so in the knowledge that it will without any doubt end up being what it sets

out to be, this goes for all other styles of music. Whereas nobody ever set out to create a piece of NS. This is why

there are so many groups/artists/bands in our music that have about as much soul in them as there is on a tramps shoe.

Northern Soul is what we, the people that follow it, call it, it is without doubt a strange one to quantify but to

us who follow it, its easy with our trained ears to tell even if its Paul Anka/ Dean Parrish/ Vickie Baines/ Beverly Ann

on the vocals, we know.

Northern Soul is beat, pure and simple.

Tamla Motown is a record label, nothing more.

There are different styles within our music and far more complex than just 60's/70's/80's......

My definition is as follows: 60's Doh! says what it is.

Rare 60's in my opinion is a 45 thats been around for ever but since first played has remained rare and hard to obtain, most

importantly has never been booted.

60's "newie" a 45 thats only just been discovered despite the yrs inbetween but most importantly has that required beat,

it doesnot have to be megger rare.

Oldies are 45 that have stood the test of time, been well known and loved by all and been available to the masses as

pressings or the like.

6T's not used as a terminology much these days but was very big in the 80's. Used mainly to describe a certain style

of sound played in the ealier years of the 100 club.

60's Mafia, not so much a style of music but a select group of DJ's playing there tunes at stafford/Oddfellow's/Scotland,

but mainly playing what was then and today called 60's newies.

Modern, normally assosiated with a 45 thats from the same decade as it's being played in, whenever that was.

Simple really if your on or within our scene, time for an asprin if your not.

daz im beginning to respect your vibes, i dont care if its northan soul or rockabilly or the magic round about,the music they play on the ns scene, really turns my heart beat up, i believe im speaking for many soulies to cheers, Billy.

[ImberBoy]

Northernsoul, the term Northernsoul became paradoxical as soon as it was coined.

Every one and his dog knows the story of how it was named and I think that reasoning still remains true to this day.

The first paradox is that the term was coined to explain the difference between what was being danced to in the North in comparison to the slower tempo South, yet the scene does not consist wholly of 100mph stompers.

Northern Soul is beat, pure and simple. Another paradox, there are loads of Northernsoul tracks that do not comply to the Motownesque template.

My definition is as follows, and it is the only definition, if it gets played at a Northernsoul venue, if it is danced to and accepted at a Northernsoul venue then it becomes Northernsoul full stop.

To prove this point list all of the records that do not conform to the stereo typing Motown sound that is associated by the casual observer.

Dolly Patron, Busy signal, purple haze johnny jones & the king casuals, Mike Pedicin - Burnt toast and black coffee and Patrick Hernandez - Born To Be Alive

Just a few for ya, as Northernsoul as talc, baggy pants, bag of wiz, bag of shite, bag of marbles

Oh and don't forget this one.....................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtPBBngxYG0

Thats for you :-)

[ImberBoy]

I have just realise something............ I like Footsee!!!!!!

Kinell, is there anything I can do, any one I can see about this?

I hope I don't get beaten up by a train spotter at my next nighter or shunned by the dancers, I need therapy!

Footseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh Nah na nah nanah nahhhhhhhhhh

Laaaaaaaaah

Footseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Hornet]

I have just realise something............ I like Footsee!!!!!!

Kinell, is there anything I can do, any one I can see about this?

I hope I don't get beaten up by a train spotter at my next nighter or shunned by the dancers, I need therapy!

Footseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh Nah na nah nanah nahhhhhhhhhh

Laaaaaaaaah

Footseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh

you will be fine untill you reach the talc scattering stage

[Guest Dante]

Simon

Actually, almost every northern record is 4/4, wether it's Motown, crossover, modern, etc. That's not the beat, it's the time signature, and almost every pop music is in 4/4.

The beat is a whole different story...

[ImberBoy]

Actually, almost every northern record is 4/4, wether it's Motown, crossover, modern, etc. That's not the beat, it's the time signature, and almost every pop music is in 4/4.

The beat is a whole different story...

Dante, are you sure you know what you are on about mate? Almost every northern record is 4/4 well explain 6 x 6 Earl Van Dyke or 3 before 8?

Kinell. I give up some times, am I the only one on here that knows anything about bleedin Northernsoul?

[Ian Parker]

Dante, are you sure you know what you are on about mate? Almost every northern record is 4/4 well explain 6 x 6 Earl Van Dyke or 3 before 8?

Kinell. I give up some times, am I the only one on here that knows anything about bleedin Northernsoul?

made me laugh ! Imber for prime minister

Dante is right tho, 4/4 is a time signature, but i'm sure you all know that

[Guest Dante]

Dante, are you sure you know what you are on about mate? Almost every northern record is 4/4 well explain 6 x 6 Earl Van Dyke or 3 before 8?

Kinell. I give up some times, am I the only one on here that knows anything about bleedin Northernsoul?

[Guest]

[

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtPBBngxYG0

How many kazoos were played on " Footsee " ?

Was it one , multi - tracked , or a mass orchestration of several Kazoos ?

So if is / was several kazoos , is the correct term " Kazi " ?

Malc Burton

Edited March 11, 2010 by Malc Burton

[Dekka]

Northern Soul to me probably means something totally different to everyone else!

but then isn't that what we are all about

Free spirits, people who have never run with the crowd, always felt that bit different

to everyone else.

Especially when we growing up

and even more so now, even amongst our own peers

[Little-stevie]

Northern Soul to me probably means something totally different to everyone else!

but then isn't that what we are all about

Free spirits, people who have never run with the crowd, always felt that bit different

to everyone else.

Especially when we growing up

and even more so now, even amongst our own peers

Northern soul for me was even hugging people like Dekka in Leeds shirts

Soul can be the great healing force in life.....

respect...

ps...

Stop trying to explain it, many have talked this way before and still we try and find the words.....

Just get out there and feel it, when it hits you its a something that no words can do justice....

[Guest]

Stop trying to explain it, many have talked this way before and still we try and find the words.....

Just get out there and feel it, when it hits you its a something that no words can do justice....

It's the second time I've quoted KEB in a fortnight but I think his little spoken intro on that SOUL JUNCTION DVD sums it up perectly....

'Northern Soul is an Escapist scene for Escapists'....

Best summing up in 8 words I've ever heard, Steve!

[barney]

Northern Soul to me probably means something totally different to everyone else!

but then isn't that what we are all about

Free spirits, people who have never run with the crowd, always felt that bit different

to everyone else.

Especially when we growing up

and even more so now, even amongst our own peers

will give you a quote from a book I read recently

:psychologists will probably tell you that youth movements develop as a means of allowing individuals to feel a sense of belongingand power, that large numbers of likeminded people automatically create .

I wouldnt dare to delve into this type of analysis or to insult all those highly educated minds that have a valid reason for everything . all I can say definitely, is that the northern soul scene was good for me and also extremely good to me . for the amount of time and energy I put into it, the northern soul movement paid me back twice over in satisfaction,achievments, friendships and highs;

not a direct quote but have substituted scooterboy for northern soul.

from the book , time trouble and money, about the scootering scene from the 70s up to present by mark brough,

we arent the only special ones there are others out there who also think they are unique

[Guest]

will give you a quote from a book I read recently

:psychologists will probably tell you that youth movements develop as a means of allowing individuals to feel a sense of belongingand power, that large numbers of likeminded people automatically create .

I wouldnt dare to delve into this type of analysis or to insult all those highly educated minds that have a valid reason for everything . all I can say definitely, is that the northern soul scene was good for me and also extremely good to me . for the amount of time and energy I put into it, the northern soul movement paid me back twice over in satisfaction,achievments, friendships and highs;

not a direct quote but have substituted scooterboy for northern soul.

from the book , time trouble and money, about the scootering scene from the 70s up to present by mark brough,

we arent the only special ones there are others out there who also think they are unique

Fair comment but try editing it to 8 words!

Nah, 'An Escapists scene for Escapists' still tops for me!

(There, down to 5 words now!)

[Mick Howard]

I know that this one has been done to death but the question really crosses over into lots of other threads - the one about songs from different ends of the spectrum for example.

Back to basics then:

• Who coined the phrase? Cliff Clifford (alledgedly) in Dave Godins shop in the early 70's
• Why was the phrase coined? To differentiate between the old (60's) and the new (70's)

So, whilst soul from the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's might be good, rare, &/or danceable it ain't Northern Soul if it 'aint 60's.

So, forget your Voices of East Harlem, Carstairs, Charles Johnson, Lew Curton et al; good tunes no question but Northern Soul - no!

Gettin' ready for the get down? Getting ready for the bullets.......

Mick

[Pod]

...whilst soul from the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's might be good, rare, &/or danceable it ain't Northern Soul if it 'aint 60's.

So, forget your Voices of East Harlem, Carstairs, Charles Johnson, Lew Curton et al; good tunes no question but Northern Soul - no!

Mick

So... Soul/dance songs recorded in the 60s - including crossover & downbeat - and not discovered/unearthed/introduced until the 70s & 80s are NS? It's a shame a cultural distinction had to be made, I know at the time, I didn't mind the Londoners getting funky to 'pass the peas' by the J.Bs.

Regards Terry

Edited March 19, 2010 by Pod

[Citizen P]

Dante, are you sure you know what you are on about mate? Almost every northern record is 4/4 well explain 6 x 6 Earl Van Dyke or 3 before 8?

Kinell. I give up some times, am I the only one on here that knows anything about bleedin Northernsoul?

Think you should just chill out.

Take Five, man

Tony

[Guest Ollie Lailey]

Fair comment but try editing it to 8 words!

Nah, 'An Escapists scene for Escapists' still tops for me!

(There, down to 5 words now!)

Abso-bloody-exactly.

pure escapisim...that's why i keep coming back for more.

[Guest babyfacedtim]

Being a young pup of only 25 i have never witnessed the original all nighters and the atmosphere that it created at the time.

But I honestly dont believe you can put Northern Soul into one bracket of songs, an era or artists.

It defines a culture/following than anything else.

The real heads were into the music, which was their main concern. The dancing came after and then came the clobber and along came the 'northern Soul' tag alongs who saw it as a fasion than a way of life.

Maybe wrong.