Case Of Tyme Manifesto

[Guest daz mycroft]

im a massive Gill scott heron fan and have just found out that Gill recorded anonymous vocals on several new york labels in the mid sixties. just played this classic oldie. sounds suspisiously like him. anybody shed any light on this ?

[Dave Fleming]

im a massive Gill scott heron fan and have just found out that Gill recorded anonymous vocals on several new york labels in the mid sixties. just played this classic oldie. sounds suspisiously like him. anybody shed any light on this ?

Isn`t it "James Lewis & The Case of Time"

Dave f..................

[Guest daz mycroft]

Isn`t it "James Lewis & The Case of Time"

Dave f..................

thats whats o n the label but not to sure. !!

[Reg Scott]

Isn`t it "James Lewis & The Case of Time"

Dave f..................

It's both - James Lewis And The Case Of Tyme on yellow label pressed on vinyl (later reissued) and Case Of Tyme with a green label and pressed on styrene.

See below.

ATB

Greg.

[Guest]

im a massive Gill scott heron fan and have just found out that Gill recorded anonymous vocals on several new york labels in the mid sixties. just played this classic oldie. sounds suspisiously like him. anybody shed any light on this ?

It is NOT Gil Scott Heron .

Malc Burton

[Guest]

It's both - James Lewis And The Case Of Tyme on yellow label pressed on vinyl (later reissued) and Case Of Tyme with a green label and pressed on styrene.

See below.

ATB

Greg.

Their both reissues

[Guest daz mycroft]

Their both reissues

just wondering if James Lewis made any other recordings ?

Edited March 5, 2010 by daz mycroft

[Guest daz mycroft]

Their both reissues

just wondering if James Lewis made any other recordings

Edited March 5, 2010 by daz mycroft

[Reg Scott]

Their both reissues

I don't think so Ken. The green label on styrene credited to 'Case Of Tyme' is an original press it was reissued on green label but on vinyl.

The yellow label in the picture is the reissue on vinyl - the original has LEGEND in red writing - but becareful as there is a counterfeit that also has Legend in red. To identify the original you need to identify the correct deadwax info on that (image as above).

There's also a white label copy boot.

As the question was about the name credits - with or without James Lewis - that's the point I was addressing in the main, but I hope I've clarified the original/reissue thing correctly?

ATB

Greg

Edited March 5, 2010 by ClearVinyl

[45cellar]

I don't think so Ken. The green label on styrene credited to 'Case Of Tyme' is an original press it was reissued on green label but on vinyl.

The yellow label in the picture is the reissue on vinyl - the original has LEGEND in red writing - but becareful as there is a counterfeit that also has Legend in red. To identify the original you need to identify the correct deadwax info on that (image as above).

There's also a white label copy boot.

As the question was about the name credits - with or without James Lewis - that's the point I was addressing in the main, but I hope I've clarified the original/reissue thing correctly?

ATB

Greg

Yes, Green Label - Styrene is the Original Label.

Edited March 5, 2010 by 45cellar

[Premium Stuff]

Address for Legend label anyone please?

Cheers

Richard

[Reg Scott]

================================================================================================

I agree Greg.....the boot with red 'Legend' carries a ZTSC number in the deadwax. The Original carries L-1014 in the deadwax.

You're right about the irrelevance of all this to the original question....but isn't going off at a tangent fun especially after a couple of glasses of red!!!

Best

dogstoat

Totally agree my friend - don't get many chances to be nerdy and get into the nitty gritty..

Best open another bottle!

ATB

Greg.

[Guest Polyvelts]

Great double sider - flip it over !!!

[Guest Dante]

Yes, Green Label - Styrene is the Original Label.

The one on the right is vinyl, isn't it?

So green label, styrene; and yellow/red/black vinyl are originals, everything else is a reissue /boot?

[Reg Scott]

The one on the right is vinyl, isn't it?

So green label, styrene; and yellow/red/black vinyl are originals, everything else is a reissue /boot?

Yes Dante, spot on.

Regards

G.

[Guest]

The one on the right is vinyl, isn't it?

So green label, styrene; and yellow/red/black vinyl are originals, everything else is a reissue /boot?

Can you guys educate me please, is 'Styrene', which I've seen referred to a number of times on other threads, an other form of vinyl, or a plastic dirivitive that is not actually vinyl , how does one tell if a disc is manufactured from 'Styrene' as opposed to vinyl......cheers

[Reg Scott]

Can you guys educate me please, is 'Styrene', which I've seen referred to a number of times on other threads, an other form of vinyl, or a plastic dirivitive that is not actually vinyl , how does one tell if a disc is manufactured from 'Styrene' as opposed to vinyl......cheers

Mr Dare,

A short overview:

Vinyl:

Vinyl records are usually tapered at the outer edge of the record. If you have a colored record or picture disc, you can be 99.9 percent sure that your record is vinyl. Vinyl records will tend to be heavier than the other types of records. If you thump a vinyl record (not recommended) on the label, you'll hear a hearty, low "thud" reverberate loudly from the record. Almost all 12" LP's will be made from vinyl. Only budget labels, sold originally at a much lower price, will be made out of anything but vinyl.

Styrene:

Styrene is a material mostly used from the early 1960's onward for '45' rpm records. Styrene records are seldom, if ever, tapered at the outer edge of the record. Unlike vinyl records, styrene records are not at all flexible, and break very easily. They most always have thin paper labels, which may show signs of peeling away from the record. During the late 60's and early 70's, some record companies such as Bell and Mala used a "painted" label. These records, in my experience, are not common... but don't usually garner a higher price either. If you thump a styrene record (not recommended) on the label, you will hear a very light "dink" reverberate quickly from the record. Some budget label LP's are also made from styrene. They will exhibit most of the same qualities as a styrene '45'.

'45' rpm records have long been the workhorse of the industry. Selling at a much lower price than the album version, they were subject to repeated plays. It is harder to tell the surface quality of a vinyl '45,' but styrene '45's show it easily. A worn styrene '45' will exhibit a white hue to the record's surface when viewed in strong light. Any good styrene '45' will still be shiny and should reflect strong light. Still, with styrene, you can never be sure. Handling of most '45' rpm records was haphazard, at best. More often than not, they were stored without being placed back into their paper sleeve. Finding a '45' in an original company sleeve is always a plus! You should also note that most '45' rpm records exist on both vinyl AND styrene, so always be on the lookout. That worn out styrene record you have may show up at some flea market in a "worse looking, but better sounding" vinyl form!

Beginning around 1951 and continuing until 1991, almost all of the 45s issued by Columbia and other associated labels were made of polystyrene, or "styrene" for short, rather than the polyvinyl chloride, or "vinyl," used by other labels. Columbia wasn't the only label to use styrene for 45s; several significant independent pressing plants also used styrene most of the time, including the two big ones in Los Angeles, Monarch and Allied. Also, those infamous records from the Amy/Mala/Bell family, as well as scattered releases on other labels such as Disneyland, that had their "labels" printed directly onto the wax were pressed on styrene.

The easiest way to tell a styrene from a vinyl record, if you aren't sure otherwise, is to look at the label area. Generally speaking, a styrene 45 has a raised label; it looks as if you could remove the label if you stuck something (a fingernail, a knife) under it. Labels on vinyl records are flush with the wax. Styrene labels are stuck on rather than pressed on, so you can see the edge of the label looks like a sticker rather than the usual 'lip' of labels pressed onto vinyl.

You can usually see through a polystyrene record. Hold one up to light and they'll have a distinctive violet colour. It is true if you hold a record up to a light bulb you can see a redish purple light through the polystyrene. no light will be seen with a pvc record.

They are also brittle as Hell and don't like being flexed. The labels will also look a bit different, having a pasted on look (sometimes with air bubbles) rather than the shiny smooth surface you usually see with vinyl copies. Polystyrene is a hard plastic; polyvinylchloride is a soft plastic. Styrene 45s are also lighter in weight than vinyl 45s but the stiffness is the easiest way to tell.

Styrene records get a bad rap because they don't tend to stand up to abuse as well as vinyl discs. That said, in near-mint condition, there is no audible difference between a vinyl and a styrene 45. When a record is worn, on a styrene record, the groove will be starting to turn white.

Easiest two ways to tell a styrene record:

1) Labels are stuck on styrene instead of pressed, so you can feel the edge of the label is raised almost as if a paper printout has been stuck on. On vinyl records, the labels are pressed on and hug the beautiful curves of the record.

2) Styrene records sound kinda hollow and resonant if you hold them up between your fingers and tap the centre with a fingernail. A vinyl record makes a soft, dull thud.

Styrene; light, very stiff material (often thick with squared off edges). Styrene (properly, Polystyrene). Hard, relatively inflexible plastic used to press records, mainly 7-inch singles, mainly using the Injection Moulding process. The material is heated to a liquid form and is then squirted or injected into the closed stampers in the press. This requires that the labels be either glued or painted on after the record leaves the press.

The cost savings to the manufacturer comes from the extended life of the stampers because of the lack of a heating cycle to the stampers; apparently they pressed most promo's on vinyl to give the press the best quality records, then pressed them on styrene for the general publicThe material can also be reused without noticeable change to its moulding properties. Styrene records will therefore usually have very quiet surfaces when found in an UNPLAYED Mint condition, but unfortunately they will wear to a noisy condition rapidly, especially if played with a bad stylus or an improperly tracking tonearm.

Hope this helps.

More wine please waiter!

ATB

Greg.

[Guest]

Can you guys educate me please, is 'Styrene', which I've seen referred to a number of times on other threads, an other form of vinyl, or a plastic dirivitive that is not actually vinyl , how does one tell if a disc is manufactured from 'Styrene' as opposed to vinyl......cheers

Styrene isnt bendy

[Guest]

Mr Dare,

Greg.

Greg....nice one, cheers, bottle of red in't post, I'll have tio dig my Manifersto out abnd see what its made of, apart from plastic

ATB

Paul (long time since I been called Mr )

[Dave Fleming]

It's both - James Lewis And The Case Of Tyme on yellow label pressed on vinyl (later reissued) and Case Of Tyme with a green label and pressed on styrene.

See below.

ATB

Greg.

No i was not on about the full title,the question was is "Gil Scott Heron" the singer and i said isn`t it "James Lewis"

as in "James Lewis & The Case Of Tyme"

Dave f..........

[Guest Dante]

Also, if you're looking at a pic or a scan, styrene grooves look grey/white-ish, even in near mint copies, whilst vinyl grooves look black. Check the Manifesto pics above and compare.

[boba]

Address for Legend label anyone please?

Cheers

Richard

this is definitely a chicago record

[Guest daz mycroft]

just trying to get to the bottom of this any body read my first post, trying to contact Gill himself no news yet. keep u all posted:whistling:

[Godzilla]

just trying to get to the bottom of this any body read my first post, trying to contact Gill himself no news yet. keep u all posted:whistling:

I think the clue might be in the fact that it doesn't sound remotely like Gil Scott-Heron's voice. Good luck trying to contact him anyway - although you may want to spell his first name 'Gil' rather than 'Gill' if you don't want to him to think it's your belief that he's a woman

The album "I'm New Here" looks like one that's not for the faint-hearted. Can't wait!

[Guest Dante]

I think the clue might be in the fact that it doesn't sound remotely like Gil Scott-Heron's voice. Good luck trying to contact him anyway - although you may want to spell his first name 'Gil' rather than 'Gill' if you don't want to him to think it's your belief that he's a woman

The album "I'm New Here" looks like one that's not for the faint-hearted. Can't wait!

Harsh, but true.

I'm New Here is an amazing record. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't get much replies.

[Suinoz]

Totally agree my friend - don't get many chances to be nerdy and get into the nitty gritty..

Best open another bottle!

ATB

Greg.

Would that be THE bottle by G.S.H ????????? Red, White or Rose ? Oh fook it let's just get pssssssst.

[Guest daz mycroft]

I think the clue might be in the fact that it doesn't sound remotely like Gil Scott-Heron's voice. Good luck trying to contact him anyway - although you may want to spell his first name 'Gil' rather than 'Gill' if you don't want to him to think it's your belief that he's a woman

The album "I'm New Here" looks like one that's not for the faint-hearted. Can't wait!

Why wait its been out 3 weeks already !!!!!

[Douglas]

Hello you say the original in vinyl with yellow label has Legend written in red, but there is also a counterfeit with the red writing,was the counterfeit also done on vinyl or styrene,Thank you.