Unreleased Stuff... Eddie Holman, Judy Freeman

[Ernie Andrews]

I've no idea who owns it now Steve, but it's long been one of the conventions of the scene that dubs of people's exclusives are usually played with the permission of the owner. RCA clearly haven't had an interest in making this available to the general public so far. As Ady Croasdell has had an ongoing interest in issuing RCA masters through Kent perhaps he can shed some light as to whether RCA still has the master tapes, which I believe were languishing in Germany.

Pete is 100% correct in stating that the 45 is a cut down version of the album version rather than the LP being extended out of the 45, if that makes any sense.

To me the full version makes a lot more sense and the extra verse, trumpet solo and extended breaks make it an even better dance record.

The question was who is the owner- The person who has the test press / acetate is not the owner. Its the copyright owner or the person who has licensed and thats where Ady comes in - He paid money to have the license to copy- The person/s who got a carver done of the test press did not have the license or permission.

As I have just pmd Mike in response to his pm to me- I own one of the 2 copies of the Sidney Barnes orch. I play it out. However I dont have carvers cut of it because I would be in breach of copyright and anyone who had got a carver from me would be effectively playing a bootleg. and its not fair to me who paid a few hundred for it and the other person who similarly paid a considerable sum for the other copy to see people playing it out on a £20 carver its neither legal or moral in the debate about boots!

As you saw by my previous post I think it might be a good idea to have a definative of what is and whats not allowed if you purport to be a DJ who plays OVO. This would haelp people make better judgements in my opinion as to what they play out.

Its only my opinion but ring up the music industry and ask themif its legal or not to cuta carver without the  Copyright owners permission. RCA might not beinterested today but if someone uses it for an advert Im telling you theywould be very interested in who is playing unauthrorised copies as broadcasts.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Ernie Andrews

[Garethx]

The question was who is the owner- The person who has the test press / acetate is not the owner. Its the copyright owner or the person who has licensed and thats where Ady comes in - He paid money to have the license to copy- The person/s who got a carver done of the test press did not have the license or permission.

You are perfectly correct Steve but there wouldn't be much of a newies scene left if unreleased tracks were deemed unacceptable to play unless the person who had possession of the physical artifact (like a test pressing or acetate) did not own the copyright also.

It's great where the original owner of the copyright and or artist can eventually get credit and remuneration for their work such as in the case of Little Ann / Dave Hamilton, but remember that if Searling had not spun the covered-up acetate of "What Shall I Do" in the first place their work would, in all probability, have been languishing on a shelf for eternity.

If you found a brilliant but uncredited acetate, and after doing all the research you could, still not identify it, would you play it at a venue or would you throw it in the bin? Serious question.

[Guest becchio]

Hi

I still own the original test pressings of the LP which correctly came fron Benji in germany..whatcha mate!.

I cut two 10 plates for Mike at soul source & also robbo in manchester.

I have all the paper work and carbon copies of who played what and costs (studio/artists etc). I don't mind who plays it off what format, i used to be a senior soul police man but these days i couldn't careless along with my other CSC brothers. Maybe one day judy freeman will be pounding out of the speakers in the dome again......who knows you'll all have to wait and see .

All the breast

Gregs

we have been dancing around to this extended version in our house for months now and everytime i go to a venue that i know plays the old one (as wev come to call it ) and they do i feel like running up to the stage shoving the chap out of the way and plugging in my usb stick . lol

it will all end in tears lololololol

Edited March 3, 2010 by becchio

[Ernie Andrews]

Hi

I still own the original test pressings of the LP which correctly came fron Benji in germany..whatcha mate!.

I cut two 10 plates for Mike at soul source & also robbo in manchester.

I have all the paper work and carbon copies of who played what and costs (studio/artists etc). I don't mind who plays it off what format, i used to be a senior soul police man but these days i couldn't careless along with my other CSC brothers. Maybe one day judy freeman will be pounding out of the speakers in the dome again......who knows you'll all have to wait and see .

All the breast

Gregs

Its not a question of soul police- because its a question of whether you have the legitimate right to cut copies.

Ady spends money on licensing to bring tunes to people -You think you can cut what you want and its totally legit- Well Im afraid it isnt and therefore anyone who plays the copies you cut are playing bootlegs - Forget any principles then and see what some of the guys who have spent loads of money getting originals/test presses/orig acetates think about -No rules anymore - just do what you want as its quite acceptable- Its not just a legal issue here but its a moral one based on purporting to be a committed OVO DJ only when it suits! I think its wrong The latter is my opinion - The ligitimacy aspect is fact- Ask the music industry watchdogs.

So if you are not bothered about playing illegal copies go ahead but then the next time you pay big money for a record and someone else carves it and plays it before your spot- Dont Complain!

ATB Steve

[Garethx]

edit.

Edited March 3, 2010 by garethx

[Ernie Andrews]

Are you accusing me of this? You better back off right now, 'cos you have no idea who I am and what I'm about. I've never done this, neither am I advocating a 'cut what you like" policy. Where the f*ck have I said that? Can you actually read?

You're an imbecile.

I dont understand why this has replied to your post- It was to Gregs post- Sorry for the confusion.

Steve

Edited March 3, 2010 by Ernie Andrews

[Garethx]

I dont call people names!

I dont understand why this has replied to your post- It was to Gregs post- Sorry for the confusion.

Steve

It didn't i'm the imbecile!

ATB gareth

[Spacehopper]

is there three versions of i surrender then ?...cos ive got a slow version on the 'sweet memories' lp not 'eddies my name' ?...

ive been reliably informed that this was the first legit vinyl release ...

the lp looks almost the same as the one scanned

personally i think you should play the lp not a carver as i have seen someone doing at an ovo venue and tried to tell me it had never been released on vinyl at the time i knew no better and maybe he didnt either anyway it only costs 8 quid ! and a carver is what about 20 ??

dean

[Pete S]

Calm down everyone.

Steve, you say you have an original of the Sidney Barnes - I don't know what that is, Stronger Than her Love inst, or Hurt On The other Side inst?

I don't believe there are ANY originals of those, they are both off master tapes and in the case of the first one, was put on acetate as it was about to be released by Destiny.

You could have had either or both of them off me on an acetate 20 years ago.

Or tomorrow if you like

[Pete S]

is there three versions of i surrender then ?...cos ive got a slow version on the 'sweet memories' lp not 'eddies my name' ?...

ive been reliably informed that this was the first legit vinyl release ...

the lp looks almost the same as the one scanned

personally i think you should play the lp not a carver as i have seen someone doing at an ovo venue and tried to tell me it had never been released on vinyl at the time i knew no better and maybe he didnt either anyway it only costs 8 quid ! and a carver is what about 20 ??

dean

Sweet memories was the first release, it came out a few years later with different cover etc.

I think there's only the two versions of I Surrender, the proper one and the slower outake one.

[Pete S]

It didn't i'm the imbecile!

ATB gareth

How dare you call yourself an imbecile!

[Mister Fish]

is there three versions of i surrender then ?...cos ive got a slow version on the 'sweet memories' lp not 'eddies my name' ?...

ive been reliably informed that this was the first legit vinyl release ...

the lp looks almost the same as the one scanned

personally i think you should play the lp not a carver as i have seen someone doing at an ovo venue and tried to tell me it had never been released on vinyl at the time i knew no better and maybe he didnt either anyway it only costs 8 quid ! and a carver is what about 20 ??

dean

Many thanks for the info am now looking for a copy of this.

Cheers, Steve

[Liam2005]

yes

id love to hear it out and im sure loads of other people would too

oh well , sigh

Then get youselfs down to Crossfire (london nighter) in April as i'm djing for the first time in years.

Judy Freeman will get a spin as i still have the original test pressings.

Regards

Greg

[Kptownie]

What about the 45 of the Eddie Holman on the Austrian Soul Shack label. Do they have rights to release, or not.

[jimmy clitheroe]

On 3 March 2010 at 17:05, liam2005 said:

 

 

 

Then get youselfs down to Crossfire (london nighter) in April as i'm djing for the first time in years.

Judy Freeman will get a spin as i still have the original test pressings.

 

Regards

 

Greg

Love the Lp Take ,Sublime! In my top 5 Tunes :-)

Edited September 27, 2016 by jimmy clitheroe

[Liam2005]

Ady has contacted RCA and they have no clue about the test pressing and extended version. Ady and I wanted it to be a special release on Kent this year but RCA say they have no record of the extended track. So sorry people no future release.

Cheers Chaps

Greg

[Cover-up]

4 hours ago, liam2005 said:

Ady has contacted RCA and they have no clue about the test pressing and extended version. Ady and I wanted it to be a special release on Kent this year but RCA say they have no record of the extended track. So sorry people no future release.

Cheers Chaps

Greg

Surely you can license the regular Judy Freeman and when it comes time to release it, you just put a mastered dub off the test press album? Everyone gets paid, everyone gets credit, you'll be hailed as a modern-day bronzed god - everyone's happy. Otherwise the track will slip through the cracks into eternal obscurity. Seriously, it would be a crime against music if this track was left to languish...

[Russ Vickers]

I had a dub of the Judy Freeman, but in a moment of weakness gave it away....wish I had kept it now :-(

[Liam2005]

hi Russ, haha don't we all wish we kept certain records. I made dubs for mike and robbo years ago. Never been one of those djs who withhold tunes. Recently Ady has cut himself a dub to play at 100club etc. Glad to see people still hold the extended version in high regard.

cheers russ

Greg

[Benji]

The test press was done in Germany. And maybe only there. It doesn't surprise me that RCA US aren't aware of any test pressings.