shute Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Any info on this 45 on Soul Fox Records ??? was these 2 tracks ever released on any other label as I am unable to locate any other info on these ??
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Any info on this 45 on Soul Fox Records ??? was these 2 tracks ever released on any other label as I am unable to locate any other info on these ?? No, they were two unissued tracks that Soussan stole from Mirwood. They're now owned by Ace and are legitimately available on Kent CDs. Jackie Lee's real title is "Anything you Want". The Belles is also mistitled but i can't be arsed to walk round to the Ace CD library to see what it was really called! If Ady's lurking he'll tell you...
Ady Croasdell Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 I Wanna Do Everything For You Baby by the Mirettes is the true identity of Let Me Do It by the Belles. Both are out on Mirwood CDs. Two different versions of the Jackie Lee, one on the Story one on his solo CD
Guest Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 No, they were two unissued tracks that Soussan stole from Mirwood. They're now owned by Ace and are legitimately available on Kent CDs. Jackie Lee's real title is "Anything you Want". The Belles is also mistitled but i can't be arsed to walk round to the Ace CD library to see what it was really called! If Ady's lurking he'll tell you... I seem to recall in the canyons of my mind , that there were several other Mirwood tracks as well as the two stated ones , that were " borrowed " by Saucepan ..... Malc Burton
Goldsoul Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 No, they were two unissued tracks that Soussan stole from Mirwood. They're now owned by Ace and are legitimately available on Kent CDs. Jackie Lee's real title is "Anything you Want". The Belles is also mistitled but i can't be arsed to walk round to the Ace CD library to see what it was really called! If Ady's lurking he'll tell you... Tony is way off in his description of Soussan stealing Mirwood tapes. Randall Wood the former owner used Soussan as a cash source when he hit hard times(fact!) SS was certainly a colourful character, but he was legit in his purchase of Mirwood tapes. The problem is, he didn't tie up paper work correctly, hence the conspiracy theories. Ace dealt with another 'Mirwood owner' and they believe they have the rights. Good luck to them. As former label manager at Goldmine, I helped Ace along with Goldmine reach a satisfactory conclusion. Soussan on this occasion has cleanish hands....in my humble opinion.
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Let's all give a big hand to the sainted Simon, then - a paragon of virtue who never stole anything and who never ripped anyone off in his life...
Goldsoul Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Tone- I'm not defending him as a whole, I am merely pointing out that he did have a relationship with Randall Wood and, certainly had rights. I should know, I saw correspondance between both parties. From a positive point of view, Goldmine released a chunk of it and made available a terrific catalogue. Kent enhanced that work and have given us fantastic quality and packaging. Trust me, I'm not Simon's number 1 fan, but I knew him well. He did certain things right, as much as you want to believe otherwise. On a separate note, Westbound Northern Soul is simply.. Fantastic! How good is the Detroit Emeralds- Holding On. Great job.
shute Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 thanks for the info' chaps now the BIG QUESTION is ... can these tracks be played out on soul fox ???????? to what I can gather, correct me if I'm wrong, that these are only available on cd under their original titles, as this recording on soul fox has the title change and only released on this label, is this an OVO ?????????? or am I missing something ???????
Wiganer1 Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 shute,,whos gonna tell u off,,ive played the soul fox -mine exclusively inst out b4 and i dont give a shit what anyone thinks...
Guest Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) thanks for the info' chaps now the BIG QUESTION is ... can these tracks be played out on soul fox ???????? to what I can gather, correct me if I'm wrong, that these are only available on cd under their original titles, as this recording on soul fox has the title change and only released on this label, is this an OVO ?????????? or am I missing something ??????? It depends on the debating person's POV as to whether it is classed as a OV 45 . If you are concerned . do what was done in t'old days ...... cover the labels with beer mat whilst it is playing . There is on eBay - item number 380208191737 - with no bids , listed at a starting bid of £4.99 , Malc Burton Edited February 24, 2010 by Malc Burton
Goldsoul Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 shute,,whos gonna tell u off,,ive played the soul fox -mine exclusively inst out b4 and i dont give a shit what anyone thinks... Technically they are originals, although no one takes Soul Fox seriously, but then again that happened to Goldmine, until Ruby Andrews(GS 009) just went for £62!
Guest Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 am I the only one thinking both these tracks are pretty awful
Ady Croasdell Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 "Tony is way off in his description of Soussan stealing Mirwood tapes. Randall Wood the former owner used Soussan as a cash source when he hit hard times(fact!) SS was certainly a colourful character, but he was legit in his purchase of Mirwood tapes. The problem is, he didn't tie up paper work correctly, hence the conspiracy theories. Ace dealt with another 'Mirwood owner' and they believe they have the rights. Good luck to them. As former label manager at Goldmine, I helped Ace along with Goldmine reach a satisfactory conclusion. Soussan on this occasion has cleanish hands....in my humble opinion." No we dealt with THE Mirwood owner who had all the relevant paperwork from buying the company. You "helped" Ace inasmuch as conceding that you didn't have the rights. If Simon was legit why did he change the titles and artists on the boots? They are not OV, as for it to be valid in the eyes of serious collectors and DJs, who care about it, it must also be a legitimate pressing.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 thanks for the info' chaps now the BIG QUESTION is ... can these tracks be played out on soul fox ???????? to what I can gather, correct me if I'm wrong, that these are only available on cd under their original titles, as this recording on soul fox has the title change and only released on this label, is this an OVO ?????????? or am I missing something ??????? It's a boot, the artists and songwriters were never accounted to, but it's totally up to you if you play it; the world won't end!
Goldsoul Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) ADY....You did not deal with Randall Wood, Soussan did! Our mutual contact Bob Fisher has the perfect line about licensing non hits.. 'not everybody knows everything' You have done a typically marvellous job in bettering the Goldmine efforts with your usual high standards, but you were not present in 1975 when Soussan paid Wood over 5 figures. Sure he may have got titles wrong in his conveyer belt attitude towards manufacturing. He was a hurried individual, but HE HAD RIGHTS.....as much as you guys want to believe otherwise. For instance,where the heck did all those instrumentals come from? Unless we were there at the time of Soussan's deal with Randy Wood.....we can only guess. Edited February 25, 2010 by The Golden 101
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I also met Audio Arts owner Madelon Baker whom Soussain clearly hadn't put you up to speed on as she was a woman, not a man as you once described her. She told me that Soussain stole tapes from her and as no paperwork was ever found of a deal between Soussain and Randy Woods in his extensive papers, that scenario may well have repeated itself and would explain the instrumentals. If he had paid any money he would have had a receipt at the very least to show you guys that you were licensing from a legitimate source. As you don't appear to have any copy of such a piece of evidence, I think it was very naive of you at the very least to a) believe him, license from him.
jocko Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I also met Audio Arts owner Madelon Baker whom Soussain clearly hadn't put you up to speed on as she was a woman, not a man as you once described her. She told me that Soussain stole tapes from her and as no paperwork was ever found of a deal between Soussain and Randy Woods in his extensive papers, that scenario may well have repeated itself and would explain the instrumentals. If he had paid any money he would have had a receipt at the very least to show you guys that you were licensing from a legitimate source. As you don't appear to have any copy of such a piece of evidence, I think it was very naive of you at the very least to a) believe him, license from him. Ohh I love it when you get all masterful, that posh exterior soon dissapears. Classic case here of wonder who I would believe...... Spike Lee will make a film about our wonderful Kent label one day Ady, thats how righteous we think it is
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I also met Audio Arts owner Madelon Baker whom Soussain clearly hadn't put you up to speed on as she was a woman, not a man as you once described her. She told me that Soussain stole tapes from her and as no paperwork was ever found of a deal between Soussain and Randy Woods in his extensive papers, that scenario may well have repeated itself and would explain the instrumentals. If he had paid any money he would have had a receipt at the very least to show you guys that you were licensing from a legitimate source. As you don't appear to have any copy of such a piece of evidence, I think it was very naive of you at the very least to a) believe him, license from him.
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 When you say me, I don't remember confusing Madelon Baker for a man! Evidence? I beg to differ. He had rights with Randall Wood at the time, had some dealings with Baker. Whatever else he's done, is of no concern to me, but he certainly paid Wood a heap of money. Remember, I have seen Ace's signed contract with the 'Mirwood owner'.......As Ted said 'it's the best we've got' Unless you were there at the time, this difference of opinion will run and run.
shute Posted February 25, 2010 Author Posted February 25, 2010 sorry if I've opened a can of worms here , it was just a simple question ?
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 sorry if I've opened a can of worms here , it was just a simple question ? No problem Shute, I'm sure it won't be the last time we disagree:lol:
Kevinkent Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 sorry if I've opened a can of worms here , it was just a simple question ? I wouldn't worry about it mate. It's always interesting to see what others have to say on a subject. Incidentally, there has been a previous thread on this vinyl (2-3 years ago?) and I think the concensus of opinion then was that it was legit, unusually for Soul Fox, and OK to play. Just have to make up your own mind now I guess. - Kev
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I wouldn't worry about it mate. It's always interesting to see what others have to say on a subject. Incidentally, there has been a previous thread on this vinyl (2-3 years ago?) and I think the concensus of opinion then was that it was legit, unusually for Soul Fox, and OK to play. Just have to make up your own mind now I guess. - Kev I must have missed that consensus then Kev!
Kevinkent Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I must have missed that consensus then Kev! Well I may be wrong Ady, though I do recall thinking at the time that I could play my copy out without criticism (but still haven't cos there's always something better in the box). Maybe it was longer ago than I thought, prior to the CD release and to Ace looking into it. Don't know, just a thought. - Kev
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 No problem Kev, i was just petulantly stating my position! Cheers Ady
Kevinkent Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) I must have missed that consensus then Kev! No you didn't Ady, though maybe "concensus" is a bit exaggerated! I was also wrong to deduce that it may have been before the CD release. I don't know how to do a link to the previous thread, but it was started by Netspeaky on 14th Aug 2007, in Look At Your Box, titled "What's The Story" Jackie Lee + Belles SOUL FOX 45 For those interested it contains more input than this thread and should be worth a read. Here's what you said Ady, in reply to JM and maintaining exactly the same stance that you have now : Posted 15 August 2007 - 04:34 PM john manship, on Aug 15 2007, 08:01 AM, said: One of the problems of being a "naughty boy" is when you do something legit, nobody believes you. Simon did get an "in" at Mirwood, and issued instrumentals of classics etc. No reason to believe there's anything "fake" about them. I've always thought they were previously unissued tracks, which the scene has always embraced. Why not these? Even though they originated through Simon. Simon did occasionally do the right thing, but being naughty was far more fun. Sorry John, the only "in" he got was getting his grubby hands on some of the master tapes, it's highly unlikely (like 99.999999999999999999%) that Soussan did a legitimate deal for these, a story was put around by interested parties that Randy Wood told him to take whatever tapes he wanted but the company secretary and Randy Wood's financial backer said that never happened. The Belles is of course the Mirettes 'I Want To do Everything for You Baby' and I'll Do Anything is 'Anything You Want' actually by Jackie, the voice was too distinctive to fool people. The fact that Soussan changed the artists in one case and titles in both is pretty clear evidence that this is an out and out bootleg; tampering with a published song name is strictly illegal without the songwriter and publishers permission. Both songs were written by Sherlie Matthews. So it should not be sold as a legitimate release and £25 for a boot is on the very high side, particularly a common, poor quality one. Both sides are out legitimately on Kent's Mirwood CD series. This post has been edited by ady croasdell: 15 August 2007 - 04:34 PM - Kev. Edited February 25, 2010 by KevinKent
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Ooh i do get on my high horse don't I! It's just knowing some of the participants like Sherlie Matthews and the raw deal they get pisses me off. Perhaps we'll do one or t'other as a Kent Select vinyl release then there won't be any quibbles.
Pete S Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 am I the only one thinking both these tracks are pretty awful Yeah I think so, let me Do It is f*cking brilliant...loved it since 75
Guest Paul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) I'm surprised Simon didn't claim writer credits to the songs. After all, he had the nerve to claim the production credit on both tracks and even listed himself as co-arranger on one. Soussan obviously was (and probably still is) a pathalogical liar / cheat / thief etc. I wouldn't believe a word he said ...even if it was true (if that makes sense). Edited February 25, 2010 by Paul
shute Posted February 25, 2010 Author Posted February 25, 2010 Just emailed Sherlie Mathews to see if she can throw any light on this Mirettes (belles) track not sure if I should have ... but hey ! there you go ????
Guest Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) I'm surprised Simon didn't claim writer credits to the songs. After all, he had the nerve to claim the production credit on both tracks and even listed himself as co-arranger on one. Soussan ................edit............ I wouldn't believe a word he said ...even if it was true (if that makes sense). not that i give a rats a*se, but does posting things like that leave you open to legal action? just a thought, like i say, i dont give a ..... Edited February 25, 2010 by mikecook
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 not that i give a rats a*se, but does posting things like that leave you open to legal action? just a thought, like i say, i dont give a ..... No there's nothing incorrect in there.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Just emailed Sherlie Mathews to see if she can throw any light on this Mirettes (belles) track not sure if I should have ... but hey ! there you go ???? It was Sherlie who told me who it was! I don't think there's any dispute as to the artist, just a frank and open exchange of views on the career of someone who shamed the Northern Soul scene in his business dealings.
Guest Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Thanks Mike and as we've established actually the Mirettes. It sounds so much better off the CD that I'm very tempted to put it out properly on vinyl. Cheers for reminder Ady, just posting it as it says on the label that i uploaded it from
pikeys dog Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 not that i give a rats a*se, but does posting things like that leave you open to legal action? just a thought, like i say, i dont give a ..... Both Slander and Libel are a very difficult thing to prove, and therefore expensive, so it tends to be celebrities with loads of wonga who push cases through the courts - and usually these are copper bottomed, cast iron cases. Anyone seeking legal recourse would have to prove that by putting his post up stating that Soussan was a Liar / Cheat / Thief, Paul had altered everyones opinion of Soussan to the detriment. Since it's common knowledge/popular opinion that Soussans dealings have been less than above board this would prove extremely difficult.
Guest Paul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 not that i give a rats a*se, but does posting things like that leave you open to legal action? just a thought, like i say, i dont give a ..... Well I certainly don't think Simon will try to sue me because I can prove he's all of those things. And I think he'll be used to such comments by now. He's famous (infamous?) for his dishonesty. It probably turns him on.
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) I'll leave this kangaroo court upto messrs Croasdell and Mooney. Here's one thing that is absutely stone true no matter what they say... He had rights to Mirwood at one time and the Soul Fox titles featuring Randall Wood output were legal. Just as a side issue, I brought Sherlie Matthews to SoultripUSA along with Marva Holiday. I explained to her that Soussan had rights but I expect his dealings with Wood would leave her in the dark, just as she had been since 1968 when the company folded! Good to see Ace are passing on royalties to her. But as I say.... Soussan did have rights at one time! Over and out. Edited February 25, 2010 by The Golden 101
Ady Croasdell Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 So why the artist, producer, arranger, writer and title changes? He couldn't have done more to screw it up apart from sing it himself. He obviously didn't have access to the correct recording or songwriting information and the reason for that is bleeding obvious. You want to believe it because he tricked you and Goldmine into giving him a load of money for something he never had the rights to; it wasn't just the US label owners who he fooled.
Guest Paul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) Hello Kev, I can't (and don't) dispute that Soussan may have had certain dealings (of whatever nature) with Mirwood at one time but due to his dreadful reputation hardly anyone is likely to believe him anyway. Because so much of what he did was so dishonest and / or illegal, people naturally assume that everything he ever did was dubious. That's human nature. Any legitimate things he may have ever done have been completely tainted. Someone should write a book about him. Edited February 25, 2010 by Paul
Guest JIM BARRY Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 So why the artist, producer, arranger, writer and title changes? He couldn't have done more to screw it up apart from sing it himself. He obviously didn't have access to the correct recording or songwriting information and the reason for that is bleeding obvious. You want to believe it because he tricked you and Goldmine into giving him a load of money for something he never had the rights to; it wasn't just the US label owners who he fooled. YOU AND TONY EXEPTED HOW MANY MORE CD COMPILERS PAY ROYALTIES???? JUST BOOTLEGGERS
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 So why the artist, producer, arranger, writer and title changes? He couldn't have done more to screw it up apart from sing it himself. He obviously didn't have access to the correct recording or songwriting information and the reason for that is bleeding obvious. You want to believe it because he tricked you and Goldmine into giving him a load of money for something he never had the rights to; it wasn't just the US label owners who he fooled. Ady- You could be right but maybe you are wrong. Look, Soussan gets a bad rap from you and others. No problem with that. But he has acted decently with some of us. Just ask Ian Dewhirst, Les McCutcheon, Neil Rushton to name a few. He clearly had a cavalier attitude towards the Record Business, but I only say as I see the Mirwood episode in as much as Soussan and Randy Wood had a ongoing relationship, for which Goldmine believed he had rights. Shute... Keep on playing yer Soul Foxers. Ady....Keep on discovering more gems from this legendary label ps Get the Bobby Angelle- Soldier Boy out on vinyl!
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 YOU AND TONY EXEPTED HOW MANY MORE CD COMPILERS PAY ROYALTIES???? JUST BOOTLEGGERS Starting with hundreds of promoters burning off CDs to give to customers for free. Any comment on that little item?
Guest JIM BARRY Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Starting with hundreds of promoters burning off CDs to give to customers for free. Any comment on that little item? YES!! YOU SAID THE MAGIC WORDS, GIVE AWAY..AS OPPOSED TO ADVERTISING AND SELLING THEM ON LINE OR IN A SHOP, TOUCHED ON A NERVE????
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Hello Kev, I can't (and don't) dispute that Soussan may have had certain dealings (of whatever nature) with Mirwood at one time but due to his dreadful reputation hardly anyone is likely to believe him anyway Because so much of what he did was so dishonest and / or illegal, people naturally assume that everything he ever did was dubious. That's human nature. Any legitimate things he may have ever done have been completely tainted. Someone should write a book about him. Paul- The author of the 'book' ought to be Ian Dewhirst. He knew the inner workings of a frighteningly talented mind. I am not here to defend him against anything he may have done to collectors or record industry persons. But we need to have facts, instead of continually 'finding him guilty' everytime we speak of the legend. Incidentally, It's a shame you never met Nate McCalla and Morris Levy..... you might have a wider viewpoint of the Record Industry back in the day. As they are no longer with us, try the new Tommy 'Mony Mony' James book 'Me and the Mob'. If I had Soussan's address I'd treat him to a copy. Rivetting! Stay well.
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 YES!! YOU SAID THE MAGIC WORDS, GIVE AWAY..AS OPPOSED TO ADVERTISING AND SELLING THEM ON LINE OR IN A SHOP, TOUCHED ON A NERVE???? running them off and giving them away is illegal! Doh!!
Cunnie Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Calm things down a bit please lad's & steady with some of the accusations & try to keep on topic.
Guest JIM BARRY Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 running them off and giving them away is illegal! Doh!! I NEVER SAID IT WAS LEGAL DID I?? BUT THEY ARE NOT LINING THEIR POCKETS ARE THEY?? .I DON'T AGREE WITH EITHER AS A MATTER OF FACT.THE FORMER IS JUST LIKE TAPING OFF THE RADIO EVERY ONE DID THAT.
Tony Smith Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) Ady, put them both out on Kent Select, maybe with an Inst. on the flip, "Same Old Thing" springs to mind, and consign those Foul Sox boots to the past. Edited February 25, 2010 by Tony Smith
Goldsoul Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) Jim. Please try and be nice and lighten up. Edited February 25, 2010 by The Golden 101
Recommended Posts