Tony Clarke - Landslide - Chess - Question About This One

[Pete S]

Then may I retract my evidence M'lord?

It's down as 65 in the discography I was reading...but thinking about it the numbers don't follow.

I was looking through my Little Milton 45's on Checker earlier too & there are at least 3 from around 67 that were recorded in 'Concept 12' which were deemed playable on mono or stereo...so they were experementing around that time I guess

I still reckon it's a re-issue though

I think I probably do also - but it's interesting stuff.

[Guest Bogue]

I think I probably do also - but it's interesting stuff.

Certainly is ....& if it is it makes you wonder if there could be other significant ones that people think are originals eh?

[45cellar]

Whether it's from the time of the First or Second release, Certainly Appears to be Rare.

So far Only a couple of copies confirmed as Stereo (with the Different Deadwax).

Petes Copy

& Alans Copy

Edited February 18, 2010 by 45cellar

[Anoraks Corner]

I have Tony Clarke's "The Entertainer" on Red/Yellow, Dave, but don't believe Landslide ever appeared on that logostyle.

Yep, that was there as was his, 'Ain't love good - ain't love proud'...gotta love those red'n'yellows

Now, if anyone wants to offer me a 'Landslide' WD as a trade deal, then I'm your man

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Having researched this a bit now, it would seem that the first Chess single to be released in stereo and only in stereo was:

2066: Choo Choo/Ida Mae Foster - The Radiants.

It would seem that stereo 45s of earlier catalogue numbers, such as 1979 and/or any others that may turn up, were remastered after the event, albeit possibly not too long after.

I needle-dropped 30-odd Chess singles from my own collection, numbered between 1900-2065, and I couldn't find one stereo among 'em, incidentally....

While we're on the subject, the first 'stereo and only stereo' Checker release would seem to be

1221: So Blue Without You/Poor Man - Little Milton

...although I don't have 1220 to needle-drop, so it might be that.

The first Cadet was indeed a Soulful Strings 45, but i haven't yet worked out which one!

[Sean Hampsey]

While we're on the subject, the first 'stereo and only stereo' Checker release would seem to be

1221: So Blue Without You/Poor Man - Little Milton

...although I don't have 1220 to needle-drop, so it might be that.

As an aside, you just reminded me, I have 1225 "Let's Get Together" in delicious Stereo, yet my UK copy is Mono.

Wonder what the first UK Chess Stereo issue was?

Sean

[Jerry Hipkiss]

While we're on the subject, the first 'stereo and only stereo' Checker release would seem to be

1221: So Blue Without You/Poor Man - Little Milton

...although I don't have 1220 to needle-drop, so it might be that.

The first Cadet was indeed a Soulful Strings 45, but i haven't yet worked out which one!

Just recalled Cookie V "Queen of fools" being stereo, and that's Checker 1222....

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

As an aside, you just reminded me, I have 1225 "Let's Get Together" in delicious Stereo, yet my UK copy is Mono.

Wonder what the first UK Chess Stereo issue was?

Sean

None of the Pye-distributed Chess 45s are stereo to the best of my knowledge, Sean - the latest one I've got, which is the Dells' "Oh What A Day" is both mono (at least it is on my stocker, the demo might well have been otherwise) and the last Pye-era Chess release - so it would have to be something from the Polygram-era and might actually BE 'Landslide' itself...

...although 'In Orbit' was issued in stereo over here, too. Dunno which came out first, as i don't have either on UK.

Incidentally, if I may wander off at a tangent here and just digress for a bit about stereo singles, are you and others aware that certain UK and US companies were experimenting with them as far back as the late 1950s?

I have a Little Willie John 45 in a King Stereo series - can't remember which one without rooting through the attic, but I think it's something like "Flamingo" - and quite a few RCA country 45s from the same era.

Over here, London started a very short lived SL 9000 series in 1959, which ran to four releases and incuded Duane Eddy's 'Peter Gunn' and the Fleetwoods' "Come Softly To Me". These releases sold virtually nothing, as most people didn't have anything to play them on that would give them the benefit of stereo sound, and are stupidly rare. I've never owned a single one of the four, but my pal Rob Finnis has "Peter Gunn" in the stereo format so at least one copy of one of them exists!

While I'm waffling, when UK companies too the decision to move en masse into stereo 45s in the second half of the 60s, the first UK stereo single was scheduled to be Eric Burdon and the Animals' 1968 release "Sky Pilot" but the engineer accidentally mastered it in mono and the mistake wasn't discovered until it was too late and the stock had been pressed. The honour of inaugurating stereo 45s as a rule rather than an exception in the UK, ended up going to Traffic's Dave Mason's solo single "Little Woman", relesed by Island a couple of weeks later.

To get back on point, Pye was very slow about committing to stereo 45s, which is probably why none of their Chess singles came out in stereo - even though some of the later ones had done so in the US.

I've said too much already...

[Chris L]

Are these still turning up ? Just realised I have one

 

Always thought the boot looked like this :

 

Never occurred to me that it actually would have been re-issued by Chess - or is it ?

Edited November 26, 2014 by Chris L

[Pete S]

Are these still turning up ? Just realised I have one

 

Always thought the boot looked like this :

Tonly Clarke Boot.JPG

 

Never occurred to me that it actually would have been re-issued by Chess - or is it ?

 

No thats relatively recent, whats on the other side?

[Chris L]

No thats relatively recent, whats on the other side?

 

The Entertainer

[Chris L]

There's a couple on UK Ebay right now, both the "stereo" re-issues. One seller isn't aware it's a re-issue the other I'm not sure about, he did sell me a booted Lou Johnson.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

There's a couple on UK Ebay right now, both the "stereo" re-issues. One seller isn't aware it's a re-issue the other I'm not sure about, he did sell me a booted Lou Johnson.

Am i missing something here ? How can you tell from the photos on ebay if these are the Stereo reissues ? Is there a way and Im just not seeing it because they look identical to me ?

Yours sincerely,

Ivor

[Mellorful]

No, I wouldn't disagree with that. Was just pointing out that I wouldn't have thought that Stereo was the reason that they would decide to do another run on the mastering/presses. More likely that they thought it would go big beforehand and had multiple runs done nationally. Giving rise to the possibility that it might well be mastered and pressed in Stereo. Assuming of course that the recording was done in Stereo, which it must have been. Checker and Cadet had already released Stereo singles by then.

Of course this could all be b*llocks, but it makes sense to me !!

Followed this thread and my assessment is that Blunny was probably correct in 2010; given the success of the artists previous release the record company may have have used more than one plant to press the next release. CK = checker plant, not sure what plant TM would relate but I'm sure there will be one; each factory would have plant of different age and so differing quality and capability. CK may be an older plant possibly only able to press mono in contrast TM may have been modern and able to press stereo records from the master tapes; similarly the printing would be on different machines so produced slight difference in labels. The materials sourced by the different plants may also differ hence some may use better quality or vinyl instead of styrene etc.

Consequently people are applying excessive meaning when all there is to appreciate is a different plant producing the items.

My Manship guide to bootlegs, counterfeits and reissues makes no mention of the 1979 being counterfeited or reissued, the reissue if the UK release and the bootleg is the ottp label. If 1979 is okay with JM then it's probably legit whether its mono or stereo, I doubt JM would have ignored the differences when producing his publications. 

Edited February 7, 2015 by pikeys dog
swearing - work filters

[Chris L]

Am i missing something here ? How can you tell from the photos on ebay if these are the Stereo reissues ? Is there a way and Im just not seeing it because they look identical to me ?

Yours sincerely,

Ivor

 

I contacted both sellers and got the dead-wax run-out info.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Chris L

[Chris L]

Followed this thread and my assessment is that Blunny was probably correct in 2010; given the success of the artists previous release the record company may have have used more than one plant to press the next release. CK = checker plant, not sure what plant TM would relate but I'm sure there will be one; each factory would have plant of different age and so differing quality and capability. CK may be an older plant possibly only able to press mono in contrast TM may have been modern and able to press stereo records from the master tapes; similarly the printing would be on different machines so produced slight difference in labels. The materials sourced by the different plants may also differ hence some may use better quality or vinyl instead of styrene etc.

Consequently people are applying excessive meaning when all there is to appreciate is a different plant producing the items.

My Manship guide to bootlegs, counterfeits and reissues makes no mention of the 1979 being counterfeited or reissued, the reissue if the UK release and the bootleg is the ottp label. If 1979 is okay with JM then it's probably legit whether its mono or stereo, I doubt JM would have ignored the differences when producing his publications. 

 

Be careful just because "John says" doesn't mean it's so, he'd be the 1st to admit that.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Ah..... Grasshopper, you have done well....!

Thanks Chris

[Garethx]

T M refers to the record being recorded and or mastered at Chess's Ter-Mar Studios.

 

C K as a mastering facility for the Stereo version I'm none the wiser on.

[Garethx]

I'm speculating whether the Stereo version might possibly have been remastered at Columbia's Chicago studio.

 

All in all this is an odd one. Chess would have been owned by PRT-Janus by the time 'Landslide' was found and popularised by the Northern Soul scene (mid 1973?).

 

Why not release the record legally on a contemporary PRT-distributed Chess label? The theory about an official 1973-4 repress using old Chess label stock makes zero sense. The Chess family had sold their stake in everything but the recording studios to PRT by that point. I'd be highly sceptical about them digging out sheets of label stock to help out in producing such an ad-hoc reissue for another company.

 

I'm wondering if this wasn't done by the Chesses themselves, and therefore technically a bootleg.

Edited November 27, 2014 by garethx

[Mellorful]

Be careful just because "John says" doesn't mean it's so, he'd be the 1st to admit that.

I agree chris no one has a monopoly on being right. I still think JM's thoroughness would have identified problems before now if there was a reissue.

Perhaps this may be a good time to ask his opinion on the matter, I expect he has multiple copies in stock to make an assessment.

The reasoned points from Blunny make a great deal of sense about different pressing plants or mastering studios, in contrast why would Chess try to reissue the record with exactly the same number on the label and deadwax - it sounds an orthodox process and is there evidence Chess have they done that identical label and deadwax number before?

[Ringleader]

I'm speculating whether the Stereo version might possibly have been remastered at Columbia's Chicago studio.

 

All in all this is an odd one. Chess would have been owned by PRT-Janus by the time 'Landslide' was found and popularised by the Northern Soul scene (mid 1973?).

 

Why not release the record legally on a contemporary PRT-distributed Chess label? The theory about an official 1973-4 repress using old Chess label stock makes zero sense. The Chess family had sold their stake in everything but the recording studios to PRT by that point. I'd be highly sceptical about them digging out sheets of label stock to help out in producing such an ad-hoc reissue for another company.

 

I'm wondering if this wasn't done by the Chesses themselves, and therefore technically a bootleg.

 

Wasn't it GRT-Janus?

 

 

 

I bought a copy listed on Ebay as an original about the same time as Pete Smith - I paid £29 - the label looked good but the vinyl looked like 90s or later so I was ready to send it back as soon as I opened it - I then played it and it was stereo - I just assumed it was a recent pressing so returned it for a refund - it didn't look like a 60s or 70s release

 

[Garethx]

Yes. Should have been GRT.

[Chris L]

Was it ever issued on a GRT release ? I know "Run for cover" was.

[Prophonics 2029]

Just thought I would get my Little Milton out....So Blue Without You stamped type face ZTSV 142213-1B STM-3754-4 #17628 1 a bother mark but that's a secret. styrene and stereo???

Oh dear, I never read Tony R's post before I posted my picture up.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Prophonics 2029

[Pete S]

 

My Manship guide to bootlegs, counterfeits and reissues makes no mention of the 1979 being counterfeited or reissued, the reissue if the UK release and the bootleg is the ottp label. If 1979 is okay with JM then it's probably legit whether its mono or stereo, I doubt JM would have ignored the differences when producing his publications. 

 

And then there's always the chance he didn't know about it...cos hardly anyone else did

[Pete S]

When this was reissued on UK Chess it was in the stereo version, I just thought they'd used that recording on a very very good counterfeit.

[Smudger]

Am i missing something here ? How can you tell from the photos on ebay if these are the Stereo reissues ? Is there a way and Im just not seeing it because they look identical to me ?

Yours sincerely,

Ivor

put your hand over one eye and close the other !

 

simples