What Is Northern Soul

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Northern soul should be heard in working class club/bar in the north of England and shouldnt be about the value of a record but its soul.

Oh dear, have all us south of Birmingham been living a lie for the past 40 years?

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

"What" is definitely Northern Soul. Ask any Judy Street fan...

[Guest]

Bang on Dave............nice one mate & very interesting to read, the highlighted sentence regarding Soul Nights/Nighters that had no/little asscotiation with the NS scene I have actually come across before down south......I did some research in the Portsmouth area some years ago & found that there were at least 2 clubs in the late 6ts early 7ts playing similar music to the 'Wheel' with acts like Major Lance etc performing regularly, I was also told by a much older & wiser friend, that most large towns & cities had similar clubs, I actually think, like the 'wheel', there was a continuation from the Mod thing, deffo with one of the clubs in Pompey. Also to this day, there is a regualar soul night in Pompey that is rammed to the rafters every month with people from this era, who would almost sneer at the term NS, the music played these days is mostly Motown/Club Soul & some commercial NS, however these people would neve dream of ascotiating them selves with NS or going to another venue either........most strange !!!.

I actually went to a reunion of the Birdcage Club with Jimmy James 'Live' a few years back on South Parade Pier in Southsea, a fantastic NS venue if ever there was one, I have often been tempted to do a promotion there, however it would really take some filling for a NS event..........guess what, at the Birdcage Reunuion it was rammed to the rafters, with very few people I had ever seen at another Soul Event in the area.

Best Russ

You won't get us lot from up the road stomping on Pompey Pier for love or money Russ lol! Nor for all the demos to ever come out of Detroit!

[Russ Vickers]

You won't get us lot from up the road stomping on Pompey Pier for love or money Russ lol! Nor for all the demos to ever come out of Detroit!

Technically its Southsea innit, so no need to get involved in the footie politics

Russ

[Guest becchio]

Northern soul should be heard in working class club/bar in the north of England and shouldnt be about the value of a record but its soul. Not sure where many of these comments have been thought up but i dont think about why the tunes affect me deeply because im busy in a 9 to 5 factory job and always have been. if soul doesnt mean escape from that still then i suppose its changed to a theme park event. I never listen to soul on CD because putting on a record is a procces that involves a little bit of meaning for me.That said ive got plenty of other things i do in life but i dont identify with most of what i guess you call on here the "current soul scene". I feel that a working class guy in Yorkshire has a lot in common with a working class black guy trying to escape Detroits car factories by recording the best tune they could and hoping its going to be a bill board hit. its all about hope innit.

yes , i can relate to that too soulacola , especially when the mills and mines were still going up here , all gone now though and no decent or full time jobs or job security anymore round yorkshire as far as i see it . bit hopeless really for a lot of people i guess .

to answer the two thread questions

i STILL dont know what northern soul is and im completely insane

Edited February 25, 2010 by becchio

[Guest becchio]

Oh dear, have all us south of Birmingham been living a lie for the past 40 years?

yes

im jokin btw

er i think

Edited February 25, 2010 by becchio

[Guest]

Technically its Southsea innit, so no need to get involved in the footie politics

Russ

Russ, here's a little story for you....

The last time I was on Southsea Fairground was about 18 years ago. Me and two mates were riding this incredibly fast new ride they had there when all of a sudden, I notice - as we flash past the paydesk at about 95 mph - that a little possee of Pompey Casuals are stood there and are pointing us out to the ride operator....yes, we'd been recognised from footy and were in for the time of our lives...

They shot off and him and a couple of other older guys stood there grinning sadistically. After about 10 mins and we are still whizzing round, I take a a head count and realise we are the only people on the ride.

The next half hour was one of the worst of my life, as they ignored all our frantic signals, pointing stupidly at the engine mechanism, as if there was some sort of technichal jam.

We were on that bloody ride for over 45 minutes and could hardly walk when it stopped, by which time there was about 20 people there laughing at 'the scummers'.

Pompey/Southsea Pier be damned, you'll not see me darken the door of that place again mate, that's for sure!

(I know what you mean though, if that Pier Hall had been up North, it would have gone down in Northern Soul folklore, same as the Mecca Dancehall we used to have on Southampton's old Royal Pier, fantastic Commercial Soul venue in the 70s and a Motown/Mod stronghold in the 60s)

[Guest]

Technically its Southsea innit, so no need to get involved in the footie politics

Russ

As regards your original comments about the clubs in various British Cities, yes, you are right and that nice woman you mentioned to me the other week - the one you could not recall her name - used to run one in Southampton in the mid 60s. The 'Adam and Eve' club was a Soul haven ran by Carol Hamilton who graced my 50th birthday party, it was brilliant to see her looking well and she has a lot to say about the Southern Soul Club scene of the 60s, as regarding subjects such as the playing of many records which later became christened as 'Wheel' classics or 'Northern Soul' records. Southampton and Portsmouth were big ports of course and we had thousands of US Sailors in all the time. I think the general story as usually told in the accepted N/S legend, is actually a lot wider than normally acknowledged.

[Guest Dave Turner]

Russ, here's a little story for you....

The last time I was on Southsea Fairground was about 18 years ago. Me and two mates were riding this incredibly fast new ride they had there when all of a sudden, I notice - as we flash past the paydesk at about 95 mph - that a little possee of Pompey Casuals are stood there and are pointing us out to the ride operator....yes, we'd been recognised from footy and were in for the time of our lives...

They shot off and him and a couple of other older guys stood there grinning sadistically. After about 10 mins and we are still whizzing round, I take a a head count and realise we are the only people on the ride.

The next half hour was one of the worst of my life, as they ignored all our frantic signals, pointing stupidly at the engine mechanism, as if there was some sort of technichal jam.

We were on that bloody ride for over 45 minutes and could hardly walk when it stopped, by which time there was about 20 people there laughing at 'the scummers'.

Pompey/Southsea Pier be damned, you'll not see me darken the door of that place again mate, that's for sure!

(I know what you mean though, if that Pier Hall had been up North, it would have gone down in Northern Soul folklore, same as the Mecca Dancehall we used to have on Southampton's old Royal Pier, fantastic Commercial Soul venue in the 70s and a Motown/Mod stronghold in the 60s)

PMSL

[Guest]

PMSL

Don't blame ya mate, it is funny looking back on it, but it was a bloody horrible experience at the time, I can tell you!

Edited February 25, 2010 by chorleysoul

[Guest becchio]

Oh dear, have all us south of Birmingham been living a lie for the past 40 years?

seriously though

i think a difference might have been that in the north it was a bigger part of the culture and growing up and much more widespread than london and the south . when i was growing up (i was born in 1963) it was everywhere , school discos, cafes, fairgrounds , jukeboxes . you coudnt have avoided it even if youd wanted to . everyone knew someone who went to wigan or the mecca ect, older brothers/sisters aunties uncles and so on . if you asked someone round here now whos over the age of 40 (who wasnt into soul) "what is northern soul ? " theyd be able to tell you and that they remmember it and probably also give a few song examples or name friends or family who were/still are into it

but it was country wide too , obviously . at wigan oldies the crowd on our left were from plymouth and the crowd on our right were from carlisle and scotland , but i think in yorkshire and *lancashire it was at one time very widespread and probably more so than anywhere else and maybe thats why it was called "northern soul" , i dont know i might be wrong , its just a thought

* by lancashire i mean the old boundarys wich included manchester and liverpool

[Guest Simon]

This a genuine question & I am extremely interested to hear different peoples perceptions, I hope this can be an informed discussion, with out it degenerating into a bun fight.

To me NS is is about the search for & appreciation (through dance) of, generally black American soul music from the 6ts & 7ts, although not exclusively (if it has the X factor, then who cares what the release date was), that was usually totally under appreciated & dismissed in its country of origin by virtually all other than a few. Thousands of kids travelling hundreds of miles every weekend in the UK to hear the latest discoveries from a scene driven by the punters & DJ's & not the recording industry............ under the radar & under ground.....the scene was special & fuelled by exciting new discoveries & amphetamines........

At first I was attracted by the seriously cool people, who were dressed super sharp & danced like I had never seen before, perfect timing & grace, every move on the beat.........& the music OMG, I had never heard anything like it, I knew I liked it, but what was it.........there started a journey that continues to this day.

Lets hear it from you lot then..........

Russ

Think the thread should have ended here, don't think i could add any more, perfect summation for me!

Simon

[Naughty Boy]

Think the thread should have ended here, don't think i could add any more, perfect summation for me!

Simon

And i too Simon would agree also with Russ too

[Guest Dave Turner]

seriously though

i think a difference might have been that in the north it was a bigger part of the culture and growing up and much more widespread than london and the south . when i was growing up (i was born in 1963) it was everywhere , school discos, cafes, fairgrounds , jukeboxes . you coudnt have avoided it even if youd wanted to . everyone knew someone who went to wigan or the mecca ect, older brothers/sisters aunties uncles and so on . if you asked someone round here now whos over the age of 40 (who wasnt into soul) "what is northern soul ? " theyd be able to tell you and that they remmember it and probably also give a few song examples or name friends or family who were/still are into it

but it was country wide too , obviously . at wigan oldies the crowd on our left were from plymouth and the crowd on our right were from carlisle and scotland , but i think in yorkshire and *lancashire it was at one time very widespread and probably more so than anywhere else and maybe thats why it was called "northern soul" , i dont know i might be wrong , its just a thought

* by lancashire i mean the old boundarys wich included manchester and liverpool

I'd have included the Midlands in there. Before everone and his granny had heard of NS in the very early seventies it was a hotbed with very sizable niter attendees from Stoke, Wolverhampton, Gloucester, Leicester, Nottingham plus others and their surrounding towns.

[Guest becchio]

yes naughty and simon and i agree with what russ has said in this thread too and im not trying to be divisive but then in other threads i read stuff like this and my brain hurts and in a way my pride hurts too

>>>>Round of applause for this man............I have been saying this for bloody years, I'm not on the NS scene, the term is cringeworthy in the context that most use it in these days, 'Rare Soul Scene' (Rare meaning the rare quality in the recordings as opposed to monetary value) is a far better term & one used for years, even prior to WC........I have been trying to distance myself as much as possible from the 'Pantomime' NS scene, as I find it embarrassing, the main stream try to turn the term Rare Soul into a derogetary term............I would wear it like a badge of honour.<<<<

p.s. yes arkwright

Edited February 25, 2010 by becchio

[Russ Vickers]

yes naughty and simon and i agree with what russ has said in this thread too and im not trying to be divisive but then in other threads i read stuff like this and my brain hurts and in a way my pride hurts too

>>>>Round of applause for this man............I have been saying this for bloody years, I'm not on the NS scene, the term is cringeworthy in the context that most use it in these days, 'Rare Soul Scene' (Rare meaning the rare quality in the recordings as opposed to monetary value) is a far better term & one used for years, even prior to WC........I have been trying to distance myself as much as possible from the 'Pantomime' NS scene, as I find it embarrassing, the main stream try to turn the term Rare Soul into a derogetary term............I would wear it like a badge of honour.<<<<

p.s. yes arkwright

Without wanting to get all hot under the collar, I cant see the problem with this, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, its just my opinion. What was once an exciting under ground dance scene has turned into a pastiche of its former self, with what were the original ethics of the scene being frowned upon & worst by a majority that seem to just want to relive thier youth, I dont mind what people choose to do, but many of these same people get very touchy about OV, new discoveries, the wearing of retro clothes or oldies only events to the exclusion of everything else.........the ORIGINAL scene would have shunned many of the things that the nostalgia events hold so dear, but this is defended by attendees & argued as being the Real Deal..........there are thousands on the so called Northern Soul Scene...........but the genuine scene is still comparitively small, exclusive & underground, listening to new, rediscovered, forgotten & underplayed gems, with DJ's still diggin' for that new discovery & a dancefloor who are still open minded & excited about hearing soul records that havnt been flogged to death. Northern Soul is dead..............long live Northern Soul ........anyone for Lifeline ?.

Best Russ

[Russ Vickers]

As regards your original comments about the clubs in various British Cities, yes, you are right and that nice woman you mentioned to me the other week - the one you could not recall her name - used to run one in Southampton in the mid 60s. The 'Adam and Eve' club was a Soul haven ran by Carol Hamilton who graced my 50th birthday party, it was brilliant to see her looking well and she has a lot to say about the Southern Soul Club scene of the 60s, as regarding subjects such as the playing of many records which later became christened as 'Wheel' classics or 'Northern Soul' records. Southampton and Portsmouth were big ports of course and we had thousands of US Sailors in all the time. I think the general story as usually told in the accepted N/S legend, is actually a lot wider than normally acknowledged.

Totally agree & Carol is a sweetheart, still see her at local events & she aint bad for an older lass, if you know what I mean.

[Russ Vickers]

Russ, here's a little story for you....

The last time I was on Southsea Fairground was about 18 years ago. Me and two mates were riding this incredibly fast new ride they had there when all of a sudden, I notice - as we flash past the paydesk at about 95 mph - that a little possee of Pompey Casuals are stood there and are pointing us out to the ride operator....yes, we'd been recognised from footy and were in for the time of our lives...

They shot off and him and a couple of other older guys stood there grinning sadistically. After about 10 mins and we are still whizzing round, I take a a head count and realise we are the only people on the ride.

The next half hour was one of the worst of my life, as they ignored all our frantic signals, pointing stupidly at the engine mechanism, as if there was some sort of technichal jam.

We were on that bloody ride for over 45 minutes and could hardly walk when it stopped, by which time there was about 20 people there laughing at 'the scummers'.

Pompey/Southsea Pier be damned, you'll not see me darken the door of that place again mate, that's for sure!

(I know what you mean though, if that Pier Hall had been up North, it would have gone down in Northern Soul folklore, same as the Mecca Dancehall we used to have on Southampton's old Royal Pier, fantastic Commercial Soul venue in the 70s and a Motown/Mod stronghold in the 60s)

Russ

[Guest becchio]

Re russ . post # 67. My "opinion" is that i disagree with just bout everything youv said. The "ORIGINAL scene" didnt "shun" anyone . Nor was it "small" or "exclusive", and it most certainly was NOT "underground". I can vividly remember teachers dancing northern soul at school discos . Good god as i write this i realise we were practically taught it at school ! ! ! (cleckheaton 75/76) . Hardly the elitist and mysterious world you describe. It was dance music for working class people its not rocket science. Did the crate diggers at wigan hav a crazed thirst for OVO ? Dont make me laugh. "genuine" ? if you could afford it maybe. The "oldies " crowd do dance to prog stuff (in fairness you woudnt know that)and are not "nostalgic". they just want to go dancin in smart clothes like they always did. Thats what they "hold dear" . Thats it ! And its you whos "touchy" about that , not them . Anyone for siddal wmc ?

Edited February 27, 2010 by becchio

[Guest oxo1961]

NORTHERN SOUL IS TO ME NOT A LIFESTYLE ANYMORE . IT USED TO BE , BUT NOWADAYS ITS A VERY ENJOYABLE PAST TIME. THE MUSIC GENERALLY IS ENDURING .I ONLY BUY C.DS NOWADAYS , SO THE THRILL OF HUNTING THEM DOWN IS GONE. THAT WAS CONSUMING TO A THE POINT OF ADDICTION!. I LOOK FORWARDS TO GOING TO VENUES JUST AS MUCH, THE FRIENDLINESS IS LIKE NO OTHER WAY OF LIFE THERE IS NO DOUBT. MEETING PEOPLE , ALL WITH A LIKE MIND WARM HAND SHAKES AND HUGS ,WHERE ELSE DO YOU FIND THAT EXCEPT FAMILY GET TOGETHERS?. THE FASHION I AGREE CAN BE A TAD SILLY . I DON'T REALLY LIKE TO SEE 50+ YEAR OLD GUYS WEARING VESTS FULL OF BADGES AND BAGGY PANTS WITH A BEER TOWEL HANGING FROM THEM, THAT WAS NEVERA A COOL LOOK IMO. I LIKE THE RETRO LOOK OF BEN SHERMANS AND SMART PANTS OR TIDY CUT JEANS. THE LADIES TO ME ALWAYS LOOKED TIDY AND FEMINENE. MUSICALLY MY IDEA OF NORTHERN SOUL IS ACROSS THE BOARD BUT NOT A LOT OF HARD EDGED R&B

I LOVE THE STOMPERS AND 70s AS MUCH AS EACH OTHER MOTOWN AND THE SWEET SIDE OF NORTHERN SUCH AS BOBBY HUTTON AND ARTISTICS AND THE HARDER EDGED SOUL FROM DETROIT .I WAS INTENDING TO MAKE THIS AS CONCICE AS POSSIBLE, BUT ONCE STARTED IT IS VERY HARD TO STOP. THATS WHAT NORTHERN SOUL DOES ,AND IS WHAT IT IS TO ME.

i can relate to this,the late 70s i lived , breathed , ate , Northern Soul! finding something in a second hand shop that was being played a lot at the time,but one thing that sticks with me that was only to one certain place and i cant think or know of anywhere else!! Getting in at the Casino, The Crush!! cant think of anywhere that happened

[Russ Vickers]

Re russ . post # 67. My "opinion" is that i disagree with just bout everything youv said. The "ORIGINAL scene" didnt "shun" anyone . Nor was it "small" or "exclusive". And it most certainly was NOT "underground". I can vividly remember teachers dancing northern soul at school discos . Good god as i write this i realise we were practically taught it at school ! ! ! (cleckheaton 75/76) . Hardly the elitist and mysterious world you write off. It was dance music for working class people its not rocket science. Did the crate diggers at wigan hav a crazed thirst for OVO ? Dont make me laff. "genuine" ? if you could afford it maybe. The "oldies " crowd do dance to prog stuff (in fairness you woudnt know that)and are not "nostalgic". they just want to go dancin in smart clothes like they always did. Thats what they "hold dear" . Thats it ! And its you whos "touchy" about that , not them . Anyone for siddal wmc ?

You seem to want to disagree with everything I say, so I'll call it a day, as I dont want to become involved in a pointless argument. Have a nice day, if you are at Lifeline at the weekend come & say hi, you may find that I'm quite a pleasant approachable person with an absolute passion for soul music, smart clothes & dancing . Just remember though, that your version of events is just that..

Russ

Edited February 26, 2010 by Russ Vickers

[Guest becchio]

Iv heard so many people say how good the music is at lifeline . Hope to make it soon . Thanks for your lively debate :-] . All the best x

[Russ Vickers]

ATB

Russ

[Kev Moore]

You seem to want to disagree with everything I say, so I'll call it a day, as I dont want to become involved in a pointless argument. Have a nice day, if you are at Lifeline at the weekend come & say hi, you may find that I'm quite a pleasant approachable person with an absolute passion for soul music, smart clothes & dancing . Just remember though, that your version of events is just that..

Russ

[Guest Dave Mortimore]

I'm not that keen on the retro NS look these days to be honest, but even though I didnt start going Nighters seriously until 77/78 the crowd I travelled with were a bit older initially & were really cool........smart suits to travel in, with shiny brogues & button down shirts with slim ties.......I had a suit made to measure every few months, the trousers were baggies, but not 40 inch bottom Spencers........once there you would change & yes I wore 40 inch bottom spencers & pasties & a vest & I thought I was the dogs.....washed n changed in the morning & back into the whistle, splash o Brut & down or up for a dayer some where.......& pretty much all about hearing new exciting sounds & still is for me..........honestly thought that was the point.

Seems a lot of people have forgotten what made them get into the NS in the first place.

Russ

.

. I'm glad that you enjoyed my initial post and the reasons why I put a regional/era slant on it is really in response to your post above.

. I read into your experience of well-heeled, trendy people in sharp suits as a culture that has it's roots in the 60s mod scene, which I imagine would have been more of a southern/Home Counties thing that was a spin from the London beat clubs? An alternative underground scene whose appreciation of soul would have had a similar parallel to the appreciation of Jazz and Ronnie Scott's, I guess. I'm sure you could elaborate.

.

. Now, were my mates and I trendy? I don't think so! We may have had our sense of fashion, but as you've witnessed on earlier posts within this string, it can be a topic for derision.

. We holidayed in Bournemouth on more than a couple of occasions (which began my love affair with the area) and I remember being outside a large nightclub. We got talking to some lads down from London, whose dress sense was completely different to ours. They were wearing either tighter/lower waistbanded canvas style pegs with boat shoes or brightly coloured boiler suits with plastic sandals. One of them wore a pair of distinctive reddish/brown coloured rimmed spectacles.

. We were looking for Northern Soul, which we described in some detail. They had neither the concept nor the interest in our culture. It was all about Robbie Vincent, Capitol Radio and the fledging scene that was to become Jazz Funk.

. I had a distinct impression that they were looking down their nostrils at the loose fitting baggy trousers we were sporting. Our clothes were comfortable to dance in and fitted in with our regional northern scene. But in their eyes, maybe rightly so, we were lacking some style and finess.

.

. The thing is, not long after that I met a girl from Wolverhampton on the soul circuit, who was to become my first wife. Now she also liked David Bowie (as I did to some extent) and had a desire to kit me out in the Young American style. So, like most men, I knew my place and obligingly went off to a tailor to get measured up (to her specification) for my first ever suit, which I later got married in during 1976. It was blue single breasted, slender and sharp. It went well with another first, pointed shoes.

. You could say that I was trendy for the first time in my life, yet I'd never have dreamed of wearing that suit to a Northern Soul night. The fact that organizations like Mecca Dancing required a jacket and sometimes a tie to gain entry to a soul night, meant I'd begrudgingly wear a blazer that could be folded up and stuffed away once I had got through the door. Others did much the same.

. So you might see the odd few decked out in a tonic or Prince of Wales suit during the early 70s, but they were more of an exception rather than the norm.

. One style of dress that I really hated, was if someone male or female who had kept their jacket on, would then also open up the collar of their shirt and fold it over the back of the jacket's lapel. The open collar would reveal a chain or a choker around the neck and allow the vapours from lashings of Brut to fill the air. I hated the stuff as much as I disliked getting too close to a female with too much make-up on. Thankfully, it was a passing phase. So maybe folk were stylized, but I wouldn't look back and say that we were cool or trendy.

.

.

. Comparing nowadays to then, I reckon you would prefer the much more broad based music of today as opposed to the more defined and limited classic oldies of yesteryear. So why, might you ask, and by what measure do I consider the early 70s to a be a golden era? I suspect Russ, that you amongst others, may scoff at this notion. Well, I haven't got the time now, but I'll explain myself and the reasons why I love Northern Soul when I continue this tomorrow.

.

. I hope this isn't getting too drawn out and boring for you?

Edited February 26, 2010 by Dave Mortimore

[Guest Dave Mortimore]

Edited February 27, 2010 by Dave Mortimore

[Guest]

Totally agree & Carol is a sweetheart, still see her at local events & she aint bad for an older lass, if you know what I mean.

Steady. Russ lad...

[Guest]

come & say hi, you may find that I'm quite a pleasant approachable person with an absolute passion for soul music, smart clothes & dancing .

Russ

And smart older women obviously lol!

[Guest gazza12]

'Northern Soul' means whatever you wan't it to mean......

To some, it's that elusive and never ending search for a rare track or piece of Vinyl - to others it's an enjoyable night out once a month with a few freinds...... and no more!.

I've never seen any pre-set rules about joining this 'Northern Soul' scene, so who are we to decide what peoples level of involvement should be, or how They choose to enjoy Their Soul music.

Good point Teapot - I've just asked a question of this site 'Is it acceptable to do a CD soul night' and got a right battering, (I'm sure most here will think deservedly so) but some support (a little!) also. Maybe I was naive and I accept that but I just love the music, only relatively recently, I have other priorities in my life and can't afford shed loads to spend on vinyl Northern Soul records. But I enjoy listening to the music, so can't see the problem buying CD's, even sharing them with others, if they'll turn up to listen and dance - I know now that they won't - at least members of this site anyway. I'm not bothered about finding really rare tracks (yet! - have to admit I've been thinking about buying some record decks and having a look), there's 1,000's already available on CD though, I do pay for all of my music legitimaley also. I've never downloaded anything illegally (just wanted to qualify that).

Who's making these rules up here anyway and why?. Surely its just trying to hold on desparately to a format that's gone long before for the sake of upholding the value, creedance and ethos around the scene. A lot of people have said it's about the social side so why not embrace that and spread it, knowone's gonna lose old friends, they'll probably make new ones. I feel a lot of the people on here are being very protective of something that a lot more people can enjoy on whatever current format may be available now or in the future. Will it really devalue anything except the price of the vinyl if it's played to the masses on CD? I don't think so, it'll just open the whole thing up to more people who are ignorant of something really good that has great value today in the quality of the music. Most people are a little mystified by Northern Soul, they don't really get what it is and why it's named so, as they've heard very little of it and about it, but they usually will say the love soul music. If soulies would join in with everyone else at a soul night and share their knowledge and passion and not worry about whether it's being played by a known face and on original vinyl I think the whole scene would benefit from it. It's all too protective (like trying to run a closed shop) - I think people should move on and spread the word on whatever the format of the day may be. Surely it[s the music and the sheer joyfulness and quality of it that's important, not how rare or valuable it is! Or is it? Is it the social scene around it? Don't want too upset anyone really but it puzzles me and it irritates me a little that as a dj I would be derided by people if I went out and played a Northern Soul set on CD even if it was a good one because I hadn't earned my stripes over the years, I'm 53, I haven't got the time, I missed it first time around by enlarge I suppose, love many types of music and always have, and although I'm late to this I love it just as much as anything else I've heard over my lifetime. Just my thoughts on this, that's all.

Gazza

[Guest Dave Mortimore]

Good point Teapot - I've just asked a question of this site 'Is it acceptable to do a CD soul night' and got a right battering, (I'm sure most here will think deservedly so) but some support (a little!) also. Maybe I was naive and I accept that but I just love the music, only relatively recently, I have other priorities in my life and can't afford shed loads to spend on vinyl Northern Soul records. But I enjoy listening to the music, so can't see the problem buying CD's, even sharing them with others, if they'll turn up to listen and dance - I know now that they won't - at least members of this site anyway. I'm not bothered about finding really rare tracks (yet! - have to admit I've been thinking about buying some record decks and having a look), there's 1,000's already available on CD though, I do pay for all of my music legitimaley also. I've never downloaded anything illegally (just wanted to qualify that).

Who's making these rules up here anyway and why?. Surely its just trying to hold on desparately to a format that's gone long before for the sake of upholding the value, creedance and ethos around the scene. A lot of people have said it's about the social side so why not embrace that and spread it, knowone's gonna lose old friends, they'll probably make new ones. I feel a lot of the people on here are being very protective of something that a lot more people can enjoy on whatever current format may be available now or in the future. Will it really devalue anything except the price of the vinyl if it's played to the masses on CD? I don't think so, it'll just open the whole thing up to more people who are ignorant of something really good that has great value today in the quality of the music. Most people are a little mystified by Northern Soul, they don't really get what it is and why it's named so, as they've heard very little of it and about it, but they usually will say the love soul music. If soulies would join in with everyone else at a soul night and share their knowledge and passion and not worry about whether it's being played by a known face and on original vinyl I think the whole scene would benefit from it. It's all too protective (like trying to run a closed shop) - I think people should move on and spread the word on whatever the format of the day may be. Surely it[s the music and the sheer joyfulness and quality of it that's important, not how rare or valuable it is! Or is it? Is it the social scene around it? Don't want too upset anyone really but it puzzles me and it irritates me a little that as a dj I would be derided by people if I went out and played a Northern Soul set on CD even if it was a good one because I hadn't earned my stripes over the years, I'm 53, I haven't got the time, I missed it first time around by enlarge I suppose, love many types of music and always have, and although I'm late to this I love it just as much as anything else I've heard over my lifetime. Just my thoughts on this, that's all.

Gazza

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. How dare you suggest such a thing. Playing C.D.s at a venue? Why that would be sacrilege and most certainly a flogging offence. So since you've recieved your battering, will you clear your head of such ridiculous thoughts?

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. Seriously though, you are not the first or will be the last to suggest it. It's a bit like the story of 'The kings New Clothes.'

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. You see, Northern Soul is not just a musical phenomenon we're talking about. For the main drivers of this scene, 'This is a Serious Art!'

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. I'm afraid Gazza, you're being a little too logical in your approach. As you've discovered, there's a history that has to be adhered to, where and when the discs were pressed and released is all important. Copies, although there are some that are played, just aren't in the true spirit of things and playing C.D.s would be considered down right cheating.

. Afterall, you have to earn the right to stand behind those decks. That is, years of rummaging around and searching out those elusive copies to build up a collection of any note.

. It's a passion that can cost the participant dearly, not only in financial terms, for it is a real addiction and usually a male thing that would put a strain on any relationship. I reckon a common remark would be, "I'm not so sure if it's me or that record collection of yours that you love more! Darling?" - A pregnant pause after such a statement would be all the other half would have to witness to confirm their suspicions. If they decide to hang around, they know that they're second best and put up with it. So that's the sort of commitment we're talking about and I can understand how disgruntled an established D.J. would be if some interloper came along and started playing C.D.s at a Northern Soul night.

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. But now, after what I've just stated, I do have some sympathy with your point of view.

. Why? Because the supply of records is restricted by their availability and cost. So the music being played is constricted by the limits of the collections held by particular D.J.s who service a venue or a given area of influence. Consequently there are those, no matter how good the music is, that get tired of hearing the same old songs in their local backwater and hence, have no alternative but to travel up and down the country if they are going to witness other players that have other worthwhile big hitting records.

. Then there are those that hunt down the big name D.J.s, to hear some of the most exclusive records that are only played very sporadically. It takes the dedication of a fervent train spotter or twitcher, to get out and hear the vast majority of this elusive music in a dancehall environment. Which seems like alot of hard work when so much of the music can be recorded onto a compact disc. There again, as I described earlier, for some it's not just about the music, but the pursuit of their art or a sense of etiquette that has to be followed. Sound quality may suffer due to wear and tear, but for them, vinyl with an original label and authentic etchings around the inner rim are all important.

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. As we all know, the rare and sort after records are really worth something, particularly if the example is in mint condition.

. The thing is, once it's been played a few times it isn't mint anymore and it loses a chunk of it's high value. I know of a collector in Stoke who has a rare original that is untouched and still sealed up in the plastic sleeve it came in, nigh on 40 years ago. The disc will remain sealed to maintain it's value. He's got the recording on C.D. and so, none the less, enjoys the music it has to offer.

. On this site, I read of a D.J. who is playing C.D.s to protect his record collection from further damage. If and when he's questioned, he'll pull out his original copy to prove his legitimacy in being a fit and proper person to be delivering the music.

. To my mind, it makes perfect sense.

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. Now some records are so hard to come by and so damned expensive, that the vast majority of D.J.s can only dream of owning them. So why not put them out from C.D., maybe 6 plays over a 15 minute slot at the localized lesser events, to give this exclusive music an airing in a dancehall for the many that don't travel to here, there and everywhere?

. Would it be so politically incorrect? Or should I wash my mouth out?

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. If this music were to survive onto the next generation, who will probably think of vinyl records as we do now of gramaphone record players and beat-up 78s, then I'm sure a new medium and not the old records will be the choice of delivery. The collectors of today will be rolling in their graves or is it more realistic to think that this music scene will die with them?

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