Little Britain Does Ns

[Ian Parker]

Byrney, we have all been having some fun over the merchandise available, & my comment about the hoodie was a joke, "NOT SERIOUS", if you read it!

But im sorry if it offended you, and if you have one of those tops yourself, you wear it, sod what people think!

Myself & my friends buy the original records if we can afford them...........if not, we tend to by the later re-issues, some friends are dj's & some are not.

But again!, i get a bit fed up with people using every thread as a personal dig about the vintage clothing that is worn on the Soul scene

I have friends that wear it & they look very nice dressed in it..........i have been wearing vintage clothing for 30 odd years now, from 1910 to 1970s & i love it..........being a historian for vintage clothing & textiles, its my work as well as my pleasure, that's why i always defend it, i have a passion for it, just like you do for your music

Debbie x

Edited February 20, 2010 by parkash

[Guest Byrney]

Byrney, we have all been having some fun over the merchandise available, & my comment about the hoodie was a joke, "NOT SERIOUS", if you read it!

But im sorry if it offended you, and if you have one of those tops yourself, you wear it, sod what people think!

Myself & my friends buy the original records if we can afford them...........if not, we tend to by the later re-issues, some friends are dj's & some are not.

But again!, i get a bit fed up with people using every thread as a personal dig about the vintage clothing that is worn on the Soul scene

I have friends that wear it & they look very nice dressed in it..........i have been wearing vintage clothing for 30 odd years now, from 1910 to 1970s & i love it..........being a historian for vintage clothing & textiles, its my work as well as my pleasure, that's why i always defend it, i have a passion for it, just like you do for your music

Debbie x

I'm not offended, not sure where you got that from Debbie, although I do have 6 of the hoodies in a variety of hues, my favorite is 'strolling pink' for those 'devil may care' moments.

[Ian Parker]

I'm not offended, not sure where you got that from Debbie, although I do have 6 of the hoodies in a variety of hues, my favorite is 'strolling pink' for those 'devil may care' moments.

Im glad, because i dont like to offend anyone

I love pink, i wear alot of that myself

All the best to you,

Debbie x

[Val (Chunky)]

<----pissing himself what a great thread

[Paul-s]

. A dance school gets ridiculed this time, but not before. The oldies brigade get slagged off, yet its its ok for the (Wigans) chosen few to attend/create revival events when it suits and on and on.

The artful dodger

A dance school!? You think we need schools to educate us how to listen and dance to soul music? A School has to provide a syllabus, education and method of assessing. So i guess you think those things can be applied to the soul scene? Is it that homogonised for you. Wow, how things have changed over the years. I must have missed the Northern Soul dance academy bit...

But if thats your style mate, good luck and hope your enjoying ALL dancing the same as you graduate out the academyYou mention the 'Chosen Few' , is that the academy's theme tune?

[Paul-s]

If someone thinks there is a market for a NS dance school has it got to get approval from certain NS folk first?

And then the people who decided to go to such lessons, should we deride them?

I choose to let people make their own choices, if that means in your opinion I have no integrity so be it.

If its good it will work, if its crap more likely it will fail.

Thankfully all those records that at sometime some A&R Supremo thought were substandard tosh found a home, huh integrity eh.

What a beautifully open and admirable attitude. I love the old each to their own theme. So if people decide to come on mass and crap on the floor at your favoutrite venue, you will just chill and pat them on the back. What a guy, everyones soul friend, Mr nice.

I think its called apathy isn't it...

[Pete S]

What a beautifully open and admirable attitude. I love the old each to their own theme. So if people decide to come on mass and crap on the floor at your favoutrite venue, you will just chill and pat them on the back. What a guy, everyones soul friend, Mr nice.

I think its called apathy isn't it...

Paul, sorry just sidetracking for a minute, is the reason you never put out a DVD of OUATIW because of not being able to get copyright clearance on the music used on the soundtrack? (This isn't a catch question, I'm just still genuinely gutted I never got to see it!)

[Paul-s]

Paul, sorry just sidetracking for a minute, is the reason you never put out a DVD of OUATIW because of not being able to get copyright clearance on the music used on the soundtrack? (This isn't a catch question, I'm just still genuinely gutted I never got to see it!)

No, we had copyright for the two cd soundtrack releases. I never tried really.to tell the truth. Ive said before, it was like a nighter...a live experience and a dvd would not do it justice and would lose a lot of the context of the event.

[Wiggyflat]

Am I not missing something but isn't Trickster the reissue........I thought the original was Keb Darge but beware of a flood of boots coming from the far east.

[Paul-s]

Am I not missing something but isn't Trickster the reissue........I thought the original was Keb Darge but beware of a flood of boots coming from the far east.

...lots of Keb re-issues and boots in japan aswell. Thats trouble with people copying, going to soul dance school, instead of listening and doing their own thing. They all end up dancing like clones of their teacher and get stuck within the limitations of the teacher. Do you think Sharon teaches all styles...wigan, stafford, wheel , Torch, stomping, shuffling, acro, freestlying.ha!? they were all different. She says Northern Soul dance school and courses, so that means she would have to.

[Wiggyflat]

Alright Paul......met you a few times at the Ritz (early 9ts I think) when I came up with Oscar from London(we were well into Dingwalls early sessions and dancing to Bobby Montez-Jungle Fantastique at the time) .I have never posted before but this thread is hilarious.Seen some posts from James Trouble as well (I thought he was a deep funk deejay!!).It is the same with a lot of scenes though.The jazz scene was a prime example when acrid Jazz took over and clubs filled up with goateed head nodders and it got commercialised and watered down.It seems to me the northern scene is being pulled in a load of different directions.Theres the rockabillies attracted to the earthy 50s/early 60s r&b sounds,the oldies fans who want to hear played out oldies,tourists who want to spill beer and listen to cat food commercial and tamla,giffer soul fans who want midtempo all night, rarities boys who only want rare sides and seventies fans..........and you have got to please all of them.If you think the northern scene is tacky you want to get yourself to the Isle Of Wight Scooter Rally...full of Small Faces Underpants Weller Who Karaoke mod bands.Would you like your chicken in the basket sir.and ...more union jacks than the Queens silver jubilee in 77 could muster.I think the word we are looking for is integrity.Mark Brough did a book called Time Trouble and Money about the 7ts scooter scene pre mod revival and theres one bit about meeting a load of revival mods from Bishops Stortford later on and he used a word that has dropped out of use.....plastic....

[Paul-s]

Alright Paul......met you a few times at the Ritz (early 9ts I think) when I came up with Oscar from London(we were well into Dingwalls early sessions and dancing to Bobby Montez-Jungle Fantastique at the time) .I have never posted before but this thread is hilarious.Seen some posts from James Trouble as well (I thought he was a deep funk deejay!!).It is the same with a lot of scenes though.The jazz scene was a prime example when acrid Jazz took over and clubs filled up with goateed head nodders and it got commercialised and watered down.It seems to me the northern scene is being pulled in a load of different directions.Theres the rockabillies attracted to the earthy 50s/early 60s r&b sounds,the oldies fans who want to hear played out oldies,tourists who want to spill beer and listen to cat food commercial and tamla,giffer soul fans who want midtempo all night, rarities boys who only want rare sides and seventies fans..........and you have got to please all of them.If you think the northern scene is tacky you want to get yourself to the Isle Of Wight Scooter Rally...full of Small Faces Underpants Weller Who Karaoke mod bands.Would you like your chicken in the basket sir.and ...more union jacks than the Queens silver jubilee in 77 could muster.I think the word we are looking for is integrity.Mark Brough did a book called Time Trouble and Money about the 7ts scooter scene pre mod revival and theres one bit about meeting a load of revival mods from Bishops Stortford later on and he used a word that has dropped out of use.....plastic....

Hi mate, yes, used to love Dingwalls, blue note etc..guess every scene has its plastic people. Dont mind all the split genres within the soul scene. But i think now, as someone said ealier, the term Northern Soul has been hijacked by people who left the scene and then returned wanting to relive their lost youth, rather than develop their present soul! Therefore i only use it in a derogatory sense nowadays, as it bares little or no resemblence to the original scene i got into in 76. And Northern Soul dance classes and schools can stay with that scene...its a WOMBLE hijack!

[Wiggyflat]

Hi mate, yes, used to love Dingwalls, blue note etc..guess every scene has its plastic people. Dont mind all the split genres within the soul scene. But i think now, as someone said ealier, the term Northern Soul has been hijacked by people who left the scene and then returned wanting to relive their lost youth, rather than develop their present soul! Therefore i only use it in a derogatory sense nowadays, as it bares little or no resemblence to the original scene i got into in 76. And Northern Soul dance classes and schools can stay with that scene...its a WOMBLE hijack!

It is quite baffling what she will teach though.....correct me if Im wrong but didn't the wheel crowd get their backdrop moves from Major Lance.Will she be teaching this in a space of about a foot for authenticity. Can we then learn the later wheel moves( the later gay disco years) ?Will 4 button brown suit jackets be provided?

Wigan stomping...Will she be providing selatios with numbers on like in a bowling alley or 8 hole dm's? Guest appearences from Jethro and Sandy Holt in a one to one q and a session

Mecca Shuffle.....this is one of the hardest moves to learn.Will she be playing Time (Edwin Starr) over and over again until we have mastered it.Do we have to be wearing a tie in this lesson??

Stafford....a bit of a breather after the Mecca shuffle. Tight jeans and white socks with a mullet or post mod revival sta prest and bowling shoes.Correct angst facial expressions to Doug Banks

Cleethorpes Pier-Spinning on the spot and into into splits(surely pegs and ballet shoes will be provided)

The tourist-Make sure you have a full glass pint.Ask dj for any motown or the fat boy slim tune. Make sure you see floor moves being done.Walk over and drop your glass making sure when he drops again it will be an ambulance to a and e.

finally talc.....remember its got to be Johnsons (cos thats what the picture is on the cd).Remember you don't really need it but its the law....put loads of it down so the floor workers come up like they have just sucked up the dust from cherobyl.

The correct use of a beer towel.These have been provided with our sponsor on.Rare beer towels are hard to get what with the breweries shutting down and most pubs turning to food and gastro grub.Theres a northern nite on Wednesday at our local gastro pubwhen we play some really cool cd's though.Sorry no dancing but theres a good selection of food on large white plates

Finally a talk about how British working class culture has been thrown into the mincing machine to be churned out in coffee book form for the chattering middle classes...

Only £300 for the first lesson..

[Billywhizz]

It is quite baffling what she will teach though.....correct me if Im wrong but didn't the wheel crowd get their backdrop moves from Major Lance.Will she be teaching this in a space of about a foot for authenticity. Can we then learn the later wheel moves( the later gay disco years) ?Will 4 button brown suit jackets be provided?

Wigan stomping...Will she be providing selatios with numbers on like in a bowling alley or 8 hole dm's? Guest appearences from Jethro and Sandy Holt in a one to one q and a session

Mecca Shuffle.....this is one of the hardest moves to learn.Will she be playing Time (Edwin Starr) over and over again until we have mastered it.Do we have to be wearing a tie in this lesson??

Stafford....a bit of a breather after the Mecca shuffle. Tight jeans and white socks with a mullet or post mod revival sta prest and bowling shoes.Correct angst facial expressions to Doug Banks

Cleethorpes Pier-Spinning on the spot and into into splits(surely pegs and ballet shoes will be provided)

The tourist-Make sure you have a full glass pint.Ask dj for any motown or the fat boy slim tune. Make sure you see floor moves being done.Walk over and drop your glass making sure when he drops again it will be an ambulance to a and e.

finally talc.....remember its got to be Johnsons (cos thats what the picture is on the cd).Remember you don't really need it but its the law....put loads of it down so the floor workers come up like they have just sucked up the dust from cherobyl.

The correct use of a beer towel.These have been provided with our sponsor on.Rare beer towels are hard to get what with the breweries shutting down and most pubs turning to food and gastro grub.Theres a northern nite on Wednesday at our local gastro pubwhen we play some really cool cd's though.Sorry no dancing but theres a good selection of food on large white plates

Finally a talk about how British working class culture has been thrown into the mincing machine to be churned out in coffee book form for the chattering middle classes...

Only £300 for the first lesson..

you sound llike old score to me billy

[Paul-s]

It is quite baffling what she will teach though.....correct me if Im wrong but didn't the wheel crowd get their backdrop moves from Major Lance.Will she be teaching this in a space of about a foot for authenticity. Can we then learn the later wheel moves( the later gay disco years) ?Will 4 button brown suit jackets be provided?

Wigan stomping...Will she be providing selatios with numbers on like in a bowling alley or 8 hole dm's? Guest appearences from Jethro and Sandy Holt in a one to one q and a session

Mecca Shuffle.....this is one of the hardest moves to learn.Will she be playing Time (Edwin Starr) over and over again until we have mastered it.Do we have to be wearing a tie in this lesson??

Stafford....a bit of a breather after the Mecca shuffle. Tight jeans and white socks with a mullet or post mod revival sta prest and bowling shoes.Correct angst facial expressions to Doug Banks

Cleethorpes Pier-Spinning on the spot and into into splits(surely pegs and ballet shoes will be provided)

The tourist-Make sure you have a full glass pint.Ask dj for any motown or the fat boy slim tune. Make sure you see floor moves being done.Walk over and drop your glass making sure when he drops again it will be an ambulance to a and e.

finally talc.....remember its got to be Johnsons (cos thats what the picture is on the cd).Remember you don't really need it but its the law....put loads of it down so the floor workers come up like they have just sucked up the dust from cherobyl.

The correct use of a beer towel.These have been provided with our sponsor on.Rare beer towels are hard to get what with the breweries shutting down and most pubs turning to food and gastro grub.Theres a northern nite on Wednesday at our local gastro pubwhen we play some really cool cd's though.Sorry no dancing but theres a good selection of food on large white plates

Finally a talk about how British working class culture has been thrown into the mincing machine to be churned out in coffee book form for the chattering middle classes...

Only £300 for the first lesson..

Brilliant. Beginning of a new play...

[Guest loma 1]

It is quite baffling what she will teach though.....correct me if Im wrong but didn't the wheel crowd get their backdrop moves from Major Lance.Will she be teaching this in a space of about a foot for authenticity. Can we then learn the later wheel moves( the later gay disco years) ?Will 4 button brown suit jackets be provided?

Wigan stomping...Will she be providing selatios with numbers on like in a bowling alley or 8 hole dm's? Guest appearences from Jethro and Sandy Holt in a one to one q and a session

Mecca Shuffle.....this is one of the hardest moves to learn.Will she be playing Time (Edwin Starr) over and over again until we have mastered it.Do we have to be wearing a tie in this lesson??

Stafford....a bit of a breather after the Mecca shuffle. Tight jeans and white socks with a mullet or post mod revival sta prest and bowling shoes.Correct angst facial expressions to Doug Banks

Cleethorpes Pier-Spinning on the spot and into into splits(surely pegs and ballet shoes will be provided)

The tourist-Make sure you have a full glass pint.Ask dj for any motown or the fat boy slim tune. Make sure you see floor moves being done.Walk over and drop your glass making sure when he drops again it will be an ambulance to a and e.

finally talc.....remember its got to be Johnsons (cos thats what the picture is on the cd).Remember you don't really need it but its the law....put loads of it down so the floor workers come up like they have just sucked up the dust from cherobyl.

The correct use of a beer towel.These have been provided with our sponsor on.Rare beer towels are hard to get what with the breweries shutting down and most pubs turning to food and gastro grub.Theres a northern nite on Wednesday at our local gastro pubwhen we play some really cool cd's though.Sorry no dancing but theres a good selection of food on large white plates

Finally a talk about how British working class culture has been thrown into the mincing machine to be churned out in coffee book form for the chattering middle classes...

Only £300 for the first lesson..

BRILLIANT ,,,,, i bet she couldnt teach me to dance though ,, lol

[Sheldonsoul]

Byrney, we have all been having some fun over the merchandise available, & my comment about the hoodie was a joke, "NOT SERIOUS", if you read it!

But im sorry if it offended you, and if you have one of those tops yourself, you wear it, sod what people think!

Myself & my friends buy the original records if we can afford them...........if not, we tend to by the later re-issues, some friends are dj's & some are not.

But again!, i get a bit fed up with people using every thread as a personal dig about the vintage clothing that is worn on the Soul scene

I have friends that wear it & they look very nice dressed in it..........i have been wearing vintage clothing for 30 odd years now, from 1910 to 1970s & i love it..........being a historian for vintage clothing & textiles, its my work as well as my pleasure, that's why i always defend it, i have a passion for it, just like you do for your music

Debbie x

went to rugby a couple of months ago with my son whos 26 and his missus who both really like our music. then found myself cringing when he pointed out a couple of pot bellied ,balding guys wearing massive flares(spencers) dancing/walking around the venue. i mean come on on im an old wigan guy who wore (spencers) back in the day but now i dont think so, ive got to agree with my lad these two or three looked like coco the fekin clown. at the end of the day most of us are 30 years on from wigan/twisted/torch eras. but i even thought to myself how pathetic and silly these guys and (maybe a couple of woman ) looked. we all have done the scene and loved the music over so many decades so why dress the same as we did 30 years ago when we were teens/20s . yeh it was cool then but most of us are 50 + now so just try and grow older with a bit more dignity, instead of looking a little bit silly bouncing around in 70s all nighter retro clothing

[stomper45]

What a beautifully open and admirable attitude. I love the old each to their own theme. So if people decide to come on mass and crap on the floor at your favoutrite venue, you will just chill and pat them on the back. What a guy, everyones soul friend, Mr nice.

I think its called apathy isn't it...

Hmm, you are full of yourself aint ya. Guess that's no bad thing tho just like a few others you sound real patronising on here.

So you're wound up bout someone giving dance classes in NORTHERN SOUL. (And more probably some link with RW).

What are you complaining about the overuse of the term NS or someone possibly making money in this scene that feeds on failure.

Anyone think the words "Northern Soul" are never mis used or just reserved for the upfront cutting edge places.

On this site alone we have people happy to dance in shopping centres, sway along to cds cos they don't care what format blah blah. They just choose to dip in now and again or wanna or think it's a reunion scene.So what, is that really gonna infringe on your or mine versions of Northern/Rare/Underplayed/Newies/Banging Upfront whatever you wanna call it scene.. I am confident my NS world will not be overtaken by all that commercialism.

What you expect from a term over 35 years old. Fluffy, Stainy Wineblouse, Paul O'Gravely, radio 2, every other tv ad or drama and more have jumped on the NS bandwagon, the term don't mean much these days.

If someone craps at my venue no I might get annoyed and have to duffem up. But maybe because I live in a republic I will always defend the right (long as its legal) to freedom of choice. And deffo no longer think I'm back in 75ish.

I thought the Mod 79 thing was shi'e and am sure a few Wheelites thought that the Casino was initially pants.

And maybe just maybe in some of these commercial exploits a true soulie finds their calling.

And no Mike it don't mean we shouldn't discuss but allow 5 minutes for differences. KTF and dance like you wanna

[Guest]

went to rugby a couple of months ago with my son whos 26 and his missus who both really like our music. then found myself cringing when he pointed out a couple of pot bellied ,balding guys wearing massive flares(spencers) dancing/walking around the venue. i mean come on on im an old wigan guy who wore (spencers) back in the day but now i dont think so, ive got to agree with my lad these two or three looked like coco the fekin clown. at the end of the day most of us are 30 years on from wigan/twisted/torch eras. but i even thought to myself how pathetic and silly these guys and (maybe a couple of woman ) looked. we all have done the scene and loved the music over so many decades so why dress the same as we did 30 years ago when we were teens/20s . yeh it was cool then but most of us are 50 + now so just try and grow older with a bit more dignity, instead of looking a little bit silly bouncing around in 70s all nighter retro clothing

We dont mind at Rugby its not a fashion show,wear what ya like............besides bouncing round at nearly 50 ,22+ stone i proberly look silly anyway what ever the git up remember Morecombe pier,the little room at the front,lycra shorts (spelling ?) and jeans like rubber bands and that was the fella's covered in sweat bands me i think then it was me baggies tapered or Spencers bowie trowsers,and a Nike jacket top all the kids are wearing now i like to think,everybody used to mix and match then and add there own bits we where more willing to experiment................like the cycling shirts and stuff,some of us had beads in our hair,some brilliant bum-freezer suits made from there old baggie stuff all tailord propper like but still with eight million pockets,now they did look the bizz and proberly still would...........them was the days when i knew what a iron was,and shoes might have had holes in the bottom but highly polished very uni-sex then,plenty of hawian shirts too.

The was only one compusary item,white socks what i still like,but not them toweling things.

[Guest James Trouble]

Alright Paul......met you a few times at the Ritz (early 9ts I think) when I came up with Oscar from London(we were well into Dingwalls early sessions and dancing to Bobby Montez-Jungle Fantastique at the time) .I have never posted before but this thread is hilarious.Seen some posts from James Trouble as well (I thought he was a deep funk deejay!!).It is the same with a lot of scenes though.The jazz scene was a prime example when acrid Jazz took over and clubs filled up with goateed head nodders and it got commercialised and watered down.It seems to me the northern scene is being pulled in a load of different directions.Theres the rockabillies attracted to the earthy 50s/early 60s r&b sounds,the oldies fans who want to hear played out oldies,tourists who want to spill beer and listen to cat food commercial and tamla,giffer soul fans who want midtempo all night, rarities boys who only want rare sides and seventies fans..........and you have got to please all of them.If you think the northern scene is tacky you want to get yourself to the Isle Of Wight Scooter Rally...full of Small Faces Underpants Weller Who Karaoke mod bands.Would you like your chicken in the basket sir.and ...more union jacks than the Queens silver jubilee in 77 could muster.I think the word we are looking for is integrity.Mark Brough did a book called Time Trouble and Money about the 7ts scooter scene pre mod revival and theres one bit about meeting a load of revival mods from Bishops Stortford later on and he used a word that has dropped out of use.....plastic....

Nice post, great contribution.

As it's related to this ever expanding thread I'd like to add some comments to this. Pleas forgive the self indulgence, but it is relevent.

Yes, I used to be and still am a Deepfunk DJ. My passion was sparked in 1996 when I stumbled upon Keb's Deepfunk night at Madame Jo Jo's on a Sunday night. His passion and suffer no fool attitude was not just infectiousus and intoxitating, it was so much more than that. It was enpowering, uplifting, a quasi spiritual experience which gave meaning to why I collected records and DJed and danced. It turned something that was ultimately pointless, self indulgent and meaningless and gave it reason, social importance, cultural significance, aesthetic reason and importantly is was super cool, all original 45s, no bootlegs or compilations, that stuff was fine for a little mid week event in middle of Dunstable, but nto for us, it was all about OG vinyl, the best new discoveries, the most exicting tunes, the best dancers, a no compromise attitude.

Yes it was a tourist attraction, but instead of the tourist activitiy causing destruction they cemented the established values, Keb would get on the mic and tell the tourists to get their drink off the dance floor or f&ck off next door etc and this made their activity empowering for "us". We were better, mroe important, more significant, and we were right to feel that. We became justifiably arrogant. Everythign we were doing had meaning and importance.

It was our Wigan, our Mecca, our Studio 54, our Staford. It was, around 1996-2002ish a really very special and important place. Every single week.

It eventually changed though. The tourists became more important, the numbers swelled, it moved to a Friday, when beer was spilled Keb started shrugging his shoulders. He sold his records and started played carvers and reissues. He got some old northern soul DJ to do the warm up, yes he was good on the mic but he didn't have a clue about what records to play, Keb had to tell him. And when Keb wasn't there to tell him he was terrible. The specialness had gone. It was no longer important in the way it used to be. It didn't inspire, it caused frustration and at times anger.

I was fortunate enough, after years of dismissing northern soul, to have been draggged down the 100 Club by Keb around 2001, where at 2am walking down the stairs a DJ called Butch filled me with the same feeling I had at Jo Jo's in 1996. It once again gave meaning to everything, but even more so than before. This was IT, it's been like this since the 1970s, it's never sold out, it'll never change, this is where I belong, this is embodiment of what Keb had been preaching to us, it was everything that Deepfunk could have become, spiritually, culturally, emotionally and asthetically. Only this time it wasn't owned by one conspicuous individual, the romance could not be shattered by one person's change in attitude. This was more than that, it was a militant community on masse, a principled stronghold of community policed values, beliefs and rules of conduct. This was a place that could not be exploited by one individual, the community would resist and enforce any kind of nonsense. It has it's own language, ideas, beliefs, customs, taboos, codes, institutions, tools, techniques, works of art, rituals, ceremonies, and symbols. It is more than just music, it is a vessel for learning and transmitting our ideas and beliefs.

It can not be sold.

It can not be packaged onto a DVD and rented out.

It can not be given away on a CD.

It does not suffer fools.

This is our life.

And as Keb used to say, if you don't like it, you can pi$$ of next door to some other club, because you are not welcome here!

Edited February 22, 2010 by James Trouble

[Simsy]

Mark Brough did a book called Time Trouble and Money about the 7ts scooter scene pre mod revival and theres one bit about meeting a load of revival mods from Bishops Stortford later on and he used a word that has dropped out of use.....plastic....

Nothing 'plastic' about Spectrum 9 SC.. Proper authentic modernists!

Regards,

Spectrum 9 SC

Bishop's Stortford.

[Simsy]

And as Keb used to say, if you don't like it, you can pi$ of next door to some other club, because you are not welcome here!

Another great from the birthday boy - "if you don't like soul music, fook off"!

[Ian Parker]

went to rugby a couple of months ago with my son whos 26 and his missus who both really like our music. then found myself cringing when he pointed out a couple of pot bellied ,balding guys wearing massive flares(spencers) dancing/walking around the venue. i mean come on on im an old wigan guy who wore (spencers) back in the day but now i dont think so, ive got to agree with my lad these two or three looked like coco the fekin clown. at the end of the day most of us are 30 years on from wigan/twisted/torch eras. but i even thought to myself how pathetic and silly these guys and (maybe a couple of woman ) looked. we all have done the scene and loved the music over so many decades so why dress the same as we did 30 years ago when we were teens/20s . yeh it was cool then but most of us are 50 + now so just try and grow older with a bit more dignity, instead of looking a little bit silly bouncing around in 70s all nighter retro clothing

Not all of us are 50+ & i dont think all of the clothes are completely the same as what you wore 30 odd years ago..........you may have bags & circle skirts, but some of us like to use our imagination & put our own touches to the way we dress , my circle skirts were inspired from a 50's Audrey Hepburn film & my vintage Latin American skirt, i like my Gorden's & i wore them in my early mod days & my hairstyle at the moment is more burlesque with ribbons & a Betty Page fringe

My partner says i look more like Alice in Wonderland , so i dont think i dress in a so called traditional NS style, with NS logo's on tops etc.....thats not really my kind of thing, i dont like modern clothes for myself ......but if other folk wear logo tops or the latest fahion, it's up to them.......... i would not critise, like many of you do on here i say live & let live!

Like i have said many many times before , if folk dont like what i wear........this is what i say to them.......

1. Its nothing to do with them

2. I will wear what i want

3. Just dont look

4. Go & enjoy yourself & stop worrying about what other folk are wearing

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Ian Parker]

We dont mind at Rugby its not a fashion show,wear what ya like............besides bouncing round at nearly 50 ,22+ stone i proberly look silly anyway what ever the git up remember Morecombe pier,the little room at the front,lycra shorts (spelling ?) and jeans like rubber bands and that was the fella's covered in sweat bands me i think then it was me baggies tapered or Spencers bowie trowsers,and a Nike jacket top all the kids are wearing now i like to think,everybody used to mix and match then and add there own bits we where more willing to experiment................like the cycling shirts and stuff,some of us had beads in our hair,some brilliant bum-freezer suits made from there old baggie stuff all tailord propper like but still with eight million pockets,now they did look the bizz and proberly still would...........them was the days when i knew what a iron was,and shoes might have had holes in the bottom but highly polished very uni-sex then,plenty of hawian shirts too.

The was only one compusary item,white socks what i still like,but not them toweling things.

Well said Ken

I must agree with you about the white socks im a bit fussy & i find any other colour don't look as clean with my very polished shoes

Debbie x

[Guest]

Not all of us are 50+ & i dont think all of the clothes are completely the same as what you wore 30 odd years ago..........you may have bags & circle skirts, but some of us like to use our imagination & put our own touches to it, my circle skirts were inspired from a 50's Audrey Hepburn film & my vintage Latin American skirt, i like my Gorden's & i wore them in my early mod days & my hairstyle at the moment is more burlesque with ribbons & a Betty Page fringe.

Like i have said many many times before, if folk dont like what i wear........this is what i say to them.......

1. Its nothing to do with them

2. I will wear what i want

3. Just dont look

4. Go & enjoy yourself & stop worrying about what other folk are wearing

Debbie x

It isn't just that the clothing is 33 years out of date. It was out of order in 1977. It was holding northern soul back then, turning it into some kind of teddy boy scene. Now it just looks faintly rediculous

[Paul-s]

Hmm, you are full of yourself aint ya. Guess that's no bad thing tho just like a few others you sound real patronising on here.

So you're wound up bout someone giving dance classes in NORTHERN SOUL. (And more probably some link with RW).

What are you complaining about the overuse of the term NS or someone possibly making money in this scene that feeds on failure.

Anyone think the words "Northern Soul" are never mis used or just reserved for the upfront cutting edge places.

On this site alone we have people happy to dance in shopping centres, sway along to cds cos they don't care what format blah blah. They just choose to dip in now and again or wanna or think it's a reunion scene.So what, is that really gonna infringe on your or mine versions of Northern/Rare/Underplayed/Newies/Banging Upfront whatever you wanna call it scene.. I am confident my NS world will not be overtaken by all that commercialism.

What you expect from a term over 35 years old. Fluffy, Stainy Wineblouse, Paul O'Gravely, radio 2, every other tv ad or drama and more have jumped on the NS bandwagon, the term don't mean much these days.

If someone craps at my venue no I might get annoyed and have to duffem up. But maybe because I live in a republic I will always defend the right (long as its legal) to freedom of choice. And deffo no longer think I'm back in 75ish.

I thought the Mod 79 thing was shi'e and am sure a few Wheelites thought that the Casino was initially pants.

And maybe just maybe in some of these commercial exploits a true soulie finds their calling.

And no Mike it don't mean we shouldn't discuss but allow 5 minutes for differences. KTF and dance like you wanna

Read earlier posts, i dont use the term Northern Soul to describe the scene im on and im not pissed off, i find it all very funny and also very sad. BUT, im still going to point out the continued exploitation, in every possible way, of the scene and particularly by Wankstainley. You see i do have a 'soul' and, i wont sell it. Ive also never been a fence sitter, let every one do their thing type when it comes to life. Its an admirable philosophy, but on that basis we would have people drinking on the dance floor, fighting in the bogs, stealing from bags at nights? So already there ARE certain rules and ways of behaving that are accepted on the scene and for me being a souless, exploitative, mercenary, deceitful, ligger, goes on the list of DONT's. I always love the 'live and let live' types who pipe up on here...the everyman types...everybody's friend. Thank god some people do have the enegy and soul to have an 'opinion' born out of passion. Otherwise lets just have a forum that has a heading, ' Sitting on the fence, its all fine'..let anyone RIP off others based on their imagined 'Northen Soul expertise and deluded dreams of ownership. Let me ask you a question: IS THERE ANYTHING WANKSTAINLEY WOULDN'T ENDORSE OR EXPLOIT IF IT HAD THE WORD WIGAN OR CASINO IN IT?...peace.

[Mike]

lets drop the ridicule false names

no need and it dont do the site any favours

sure all enjoy a laugh and that , but getting over the top now

[Ian Parker]

It isn't just that the clothing is 33 years out of date. It was out of order in 1977. It was holding northern soul back then, turning it into some kind of teddy boy scene. Now it just looks faintly rediculous

But i dont think people are going to change the way they dress just because some folk dont like it.

Not everyone is going to like the same style as everyone else

And in 1977, those flared trousers were the fashions of the time anyway, my dad even wore them & he was not into Northern Soul!

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Wiggyflat]

Nothing 'plastic' about Spectrum 9 SC.. Proper authentic modernists!

Regards,

Spectrum 9 SC

Bishop's Stortford.

Brighton 79

This was a rally organised by Scunthorpe Road Rats.Remember they had been doing scooters and rallies all over the north for a few years before this and there was quite a big northern scooter scene..This story is about on the way home.Entering Bishops Stortford.....the noise of our scooters immediately brought a crowd of plastic mods out. They were dressed like the jam clones wed seen at Brighton. Their fishtail parkas had all the obligatory targets and Who emblems...plastic...they were almost melting in the sun.They then got a load of questions from them and he describes what they were wearing, khaki overalls, us parkas,40 inch patchwork jeans and soul club badges, docs, brogues and tank tops.The plastics started mouthing off about the width of one of their riders trousers (remember northern soul and the casino was still open in 79) and it just basically goes on about a confrontation from there.

This is from Time Trouble And Money by Mark Brough and his account of the Pre Mod Revival Scooter Scene 1973 up until 82 when he packed it in.In essence the north kept a lot of the mod ethos ie the scooters and discovering soul music and the south and in particular certain journalists/NME/Sounds and in particular Gary Bushell etc thought that they were reviving it in 79 when in actual fact it never went away.The north had just moved with the times.It is funny that this aspect of Mod never gets mentioned and all we ever hear about is Weller in 77.I suppose it doesn't suit a lot of peoples agenda that things were happening outside London pre 79.

Were you there?. Maybe Sharon can start Northern Mod/Soul re enactments ? The famous Levine Must Go Banner scene from the Mecca,The Chris Hill Conga scene and the snapping of "that funk record" .The kid that spun himself to death(Dewhirst story.....but I still don't believe it),Soussans deejaying spot.....but of course the instrumental,famous chemist burglaries,Richard Searling leaving the Lp on top of the car and reversing into his dj box,the night when Dave Evison stuck Move On Up on and created "oldies".....maybe there's a film in this?.Oh yeah SOLD OUT!!

[jocko]

If someone thinks there is a market for a NS dance school has it got to get approval from certain NS folk first?

And then the people who decided to go to such lessons, should we deride them?

I choose to let people make their own choices, if that means in your opinion I have no integrity so be it.

If its good it will work, if its crap more likely it will fail.

Thankfully all those records that at sometime some A&R Supremo thought were substandard tosh found a home, huh integrity eh.

I was going to leave this alone as you just refuse to debate the points and carry on spouting the same line; however you seem intent on ridiculing anyone who disagrees with you.

I already answered the point about choices, why do you keep banging on about giving choices, it shouldnt be that hard to work out I totally agree in everyone been given a free choice, within societal limits. However, because people have the right to choose doesnt mean you have to condone their choices, its back to my original point in there is sometimes a choice with integrity and a choice without and I see little wrong on criticising those without integrity especially when it cheapens and dilutes something I care about. As I say if you do not think these things lack integrity or indeed you do not see the value of integrity, then great say that, that is your choice and cant be argued against as such, at least you would be presenting an argument. It wont stop me valuing and arguing for integrity in things I care about.

As someone said, this lets leave all to their own attitude is why the Northern scene is now a parody of its former self, and its generally used by people as an excuse for their own behaviour, although I appreciate this could be seen a bit of a generalisation! Having passion about quality control over something you care about seems so obvious I cant believe you continue to argue against, by just ignoring these things that cheapen our world, people think thats the norm and soon perception is reality!

And as for your last line about the A&R guys, not only does it make no sense, it is just so irrelevant to this debate, which is about the UK Northern scene, period, and how that is perceived. I can make a guess as to what you are alluding to, and any argument about artists rights, no matter how interesting, is not relevant to this discussion.

Edited February 22, 2010 by jocko

[Guest Simon]

No, we had copyright for the two cd soundtrack releases. I never tried really.to tell the truth. Ive said before, it was like a nighter...a live experience and a dvd would not do it justice and would lose a lot of the context of the event.

I agree, i saw the play in Greenwich if i remember rightly, absolutely fantastic & electric, would not work on dvd imo.

Simon

[Ian Parker]

Here are some photo's of some of my friends on the 40's & 50's scene, they have been into it for 30 odd years..........so they are all 50+ & do go dance classes, but i have never seen so much passion & energy on that dance floor

The point of this is.............to show that you can be passionate about everything, including the music, the dancing & the clothes

These people have a fantastic time, you never hear them moaning

(Thank you to Hoc & Mark for letting me use the photo's)

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Naughty Boy]

Here are some photo's of some of my friends on the 40's & 50's scene, they have been into it for 30 odd years..........so they are all 50+ & do go dance classes, but i have never seen so much passion & energy on that dance floor

The point of this is.............to show that you can be passionate about everything, including the music, the dancing & the clothes

These people have a fantastic time, you never hear them moaning

(Thank you to Hoc & Mark for letting me use the photo's)

Debbie x

Hey Debbie whilst i have no probs with wearing of cloths from the 70ts ... each to their own it does not matter a jot to my enjoyment on a night out, NS for me as always been about the here and now from the early 70ts to the present day

your friends though seem to have got onto a retro scene some twenty years or so after it had ended ( a few new comers seem to think northern is about this my grandad would be happy doing that world war 11 stuff.... are they being judged in some of those pictures as best dressed etc..............

ATB Rob

what next for NS dance exhibitions on stage like in them pictures

Edited February 22, 2010 by Naughty Boy

[Wrongcrowd]

Here are some photo's of some of my friends on the 40's & 50's scene, they have been into it for 30 odd years..........so they are all 50+ & do go dance classes, but i have never seen so much passion & energy on that dance floor

The point of this is.............to show that you can be passionate about everything, including the music, the dancing & the clothes

These people have a fantastic time, you never hear them moaning

(Thank you to Hoc & Mark for letting me use the photo's)

Debbie x

I hope you're not suggesting that these fancy dress dance things are actually relevant to a progressive music scene ???? You're madder than a sack of cats.........

[jocko]

Here are some photo's of some of my friends on the 40's & 50's scene, they have been into it for 30 odd years..........so they are all 50+ & do go dance classes, but i have never seen so much passion & energy on that dance floor

The point of this is.............to show that you can be passionate about everything, including the music, the dancing & the clothes

These people have a fantastic time, you never hear them moaning

(Thank you to Hoc & Mark for letting me use the photo's)

Debbie x

Hmm I normally stay out of this argument even more as it is been done to death, but in recent times this view is seen as majority and I think that is not the history of the scene I know.

I am not totally sure about the point you are making here, but I suspect you are holding this up as positive reasons why the retro Northern scene deserves to exist, I think it actually highlights very nicely why it was such a negative thing. These scenes, as does the current Northern retro scene, always seem to focus on a very limited point in history and pay an everlasting tribute to this time and its fashions, forgetting that these fashions were worn only by the most modern of that time, often any musical content is just an equal part, or in my opinion sometimes less important part, than the fashions and in reality people are far more into the scene than the music in isolation, and it almost always turns out to be just a fad, which in my opinion, although arguably I accept, is a parallel for the Northern retro scene.

To many people, ironic as it may seem, the Northern scene was never about looking back, it was always about looking forward to next new sound and during all of the 80s and most of the 90s that was the scene completely 100%, and the attitude, of which there was lots, was directed towards keeping the scene like that, and dare I say it preserving its integrity. Even the fashions were the fashion of the day, particularly the early to late 80s, then followed by whatever people wore to go out.

The scene you champion in reality only reflects a very small period of NS history, and parts of that period seems to reflect the worst in musical times for NS. I think what annoys many of us who werent around for lots of that, I only started going in 79, is that many try and portray now that is and was the only NS fashion, which is just historically incorrect and for many of us it washes away the fantastic scene of the 80s and 90s, in reality it is rewriting history, which as a historian seems a strange choice for you. In all honesty it is embarrassing for many of us as that is how people assume our scene was, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth, I do accept the over the top slagging may not be necessary, but sometimes raw emotion is evoked when something precious to people is patronised and bastardised. Since in reality the scene you champion and anything I was involved with are actually now only distant relatives, probably step relatives with only one birth connection, I genuinely do believe in the live and let live principle, however on recent times it has almost become sacrosanct to defend any alternative on here, leading to accusations of being up our own asses and such like, I think sometimes there needs to be a reality check, and in reality the scene you champion is far closer to those in the images you have here, but what you and others seem to forget that these were the kind of scenes many of us were rebelling against by being into Northern, and yes being nearly 50 and relatively comfortable in life, these rebellions may be not as relevant but what is important to me, in case its not obvious on this thread, is integrity, and presenting the Northern scene as purely a retro scene does no justice to the integrity that was so evident on the NS in my nearly 20 years of being a regular participant, and indeed led to my current apathy to anything called Northern.

I genuinely do not get involved in the debate as I think it has been argued before and nowadays any progressive Northern scene is being strangled to death by people who consider themselves a part of it, with repeated new nights playing the same old newies that have been played for years, therefore the retro scene in reality is of little consequence to that scene. But to me the reintroduction of the retro scene seriously damaged the healthy progressive Northern scene, however that is long past, but I think your arguments to live and let live go 2 ways, surely you can see why many of us do not recognise your vision of the scene, and indeed why sometimes it grates to be told that you represent the history of the NS, when it is not our history. There is a very thin line between moaning and informed opinion!

This isnt really to debate any further, its really to present the other side, which is generally ignored out there these days.

Edited February 22, 2010 by jocko

[macca]

When we were attending venues in the 70s, the fashions went hand in glove with the music.

People then were very dismissive about retro scenes like the R&R scene, which was made up largely of forty five year olds hankering after an idealised Elvis pre-army era. Most of us thought they were the height of tack and legitimate targets for sometimes merciless ridicule. From what I've seen of retro scenes today, for example Rob Bailey's New Untouchables events, I can't help thinking they've got it right. They'd probably argue the point that they're a retro scene at all, but I find it quite hard to have a conversation with a 25 year old beautifully dressed like Edie Sedgwick or Peter Tork circa 1967 and not draw that conclusion. The biggest difference, and correct me if I'm wrong, between the Untouchables punters/DJs and what I see as the more regressive side of the UK Soul scene is the undeniable fact that the Untouchables crowd continually push back boundaries in their search for new sounds/grooves. Es una opinion, as they say in Spain...

[Ian Parker]

I hope you're not suggesting that these fancy dress dance things are actually relevant to a progressive music scene ???? You're madder than a sack of cats.........

My friends donot see themselves as being apart of a fancy dress scene , they would take offence to that .......(JUST FOR THE RECORD......FANCY DRESS IS A BATMAN COSTUME, NOT YOUR OWN CLOTHES THAT YOU WEAR EVERY DAY).........they have a real passion for 1940's & 1950's music, & they dont get dressed up like that just for the night, they dress that way all the time & even go to work dressed in that style.

But the point im trying to make is .....................It does not matter how many times people critisise the clothing side of our scene, folk will still wear it, you can't change that.............So people have just got to except it!

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Ian Parker]

When we were attending venues in the 70s, the fashions went hand in glove with the music.

People then were very dismissive about retro scenes like the R&R scene, which was made up largely of forty five year olds hankering after an idealised Elvis pre-army era. Most of us thought they were the height of tack and legitimate targets for sometimes merciless ridicule. From what I've seen of retro scenes today, for example Rob Bailey's New Untouchables events, I can't help thinking they've got it right. They'd probably argue the point that they're a retro scene at all, but I find it quite hard to have a conversation with a 25 year old beautifully dressed like Edie Sedgwick or Peter Tork circa 1967 and not draw that conclusion. The biggest difference, and correct me if I'm wrong, between the Untouchables punters/DJs and what I see as the more regressive side of the UK Soul scene is the undeniable fact that the Untouchables crowd continually push back boundaries in their search for new sounds/grooves. Es una opinion, as they say in Spain...

I have had some fantatic times at Rob Bailey's Untouchables nights!

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Guest becchio]

My friends donot see themselves as being apart of a fancy dress scene , they would take offence to that , they have a real passion for 1940's & 1950's music, & they dont get dressed up like that just for the night, they dress that way all the time & even go to work dressed in that style.

But the point im trying to make is .....................It does not matter how many times people critisise the clothing side of our scene, folk will still wear it, you can't change that.............So people have just got to except it!

Debbie x

yes debbie

i keep reading that the "oldies" crowd wear "the uniform" and that nothing progressive is played at those venues its just not true. iv hardly ever seen "the uniform" at oldies events , or not noticed it . iv also heard some pretty leftfield stuff played

i go to both "oldies" and "progressive" events in the north of england (as do a lot of people) and i honestly enjoy both , though i have to say i prefer the music at the progressive rare and underplayed events the most .

both types of events have good and bad points

i honestly believe that if the oldies crowd were played more "upfront" stuff they would dance to it . theyr just not , on the whole , given that opportunity .

Edited February 22, 2010 by becchio

[Ian Parker]

yes debbie

i keep reading that the "oldies" crowd wear "the uniform" and that nothing progressive is played at those venues its just not true. iv hardly ever seen "the uniform" at oldies events . or not noticed

i go to both "oldies" and "progressive" events in the north of england (as do a lot of people) and i honestly enjoy both , though i have to say i prefer the music at the progressive rare and underplayed events the most .

both types of events have good and bad points

i honestly believe that if the oldies crowd were played more "upfront" stuff they would dance to it . theyr just not , on the whole , given that opportunity .

I agree with you

I enjoy an oldies night, most of my friends go but i prefer the rare & underplayed music

Ian my partner will have a spot on the decks at some of the oldies nights, but he will try & mix in some rare & underplayed & forgotten tracks, & your right some of the oldies folk do dance to it but i think some dj's play it a bit too safe

Brooksey at Burscough in Wigan has a cracking rare & underplayed night!

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Guest proudlove]

My friends donot see themselves as being apart of a fancy dress scene , they would take offence to that , they have a real passion for 1940's & 1950's music, & they dont get dressed up like that just for the night, they dress that way all the time & even go to work dressed in that style.

But the point im trying to make is .....................It does not matter how many times people critisise the clothing side of our scene, folk will still wear it, you can't change that.............So people have just got to except it!

Debbie x

Ok lets come at this from a slightly different angle.With any long established "scene"(I hate that word)you will always have people on the periphery who think they are the centre of that scene.As an example,one of the other things I am into is my cars,specifically ,50s 60s Hotrods and Customs.The two magazines I look forward to are Car Kulture Deluxe and Custom Car.Two magazines about basically Hotrods,BUT one is all about the cars,build ups and tech articles with a small amount about Rod runs etc,the other has a lot about cars ,but also has Art/pin up/fashion..............probably edging towards rockabilly lifestyle................Which is right,which is the most reflective of the Hotrod scene.............probably Custom Car...........because it focuses on the cars rather than a small part of that scene..(The 1950s................which is what Rockabilly is about)............You wouldn't catch the majority of Hotrodders at Hembsby Weekender because of its ethos,but you would catch the Rockabillys at a Rodrun....................because it is about the cars first and foremost.

Similarly the Soul scene is about the music first and foremost,everything else is secondary.

THAT is why people get wound up when there is so much focus on a very small time window in a long running MUSIC "scene"(that f'in word again).

I don't give two shits how people dress or go about their daily lives,that is their choice,but from a personal point of view and this is just my opinion,I do find most nostalgia scenes not what they used to be,slightly odd,mainly because people who shout loudest about being there,doing it and wearing the trousers often didn't,and embarrasing to be associated with ......................because it just wasn't like that.

Just to go back to the car analogy..................Go to a rodrun in an old Marina with a mural painted on it and watch the reaction........................................................

Steve

[Guest becchio]

i hate the "scene" word too proudlove . infact at times i hate "the scene" full stop !

iv never really considered myself to be part of any "scene" nor do i want to . i dont go to soul dos to socialise or buy records and never did . though having said that iv made some great friends over the years along the way .

but i dont particulally like "the scene" , frankly .

though iv never given a toss what anyone thinks of me i can understand why some young kid/newbie might feel intimidated by a northern soul dancefloor and the elitism , as they might percieve it, of "the scene" .

im not keen on all this "you can pay ( ) to learn to dance northern soul" guff and like most people for me its always been trial and error at venues , school discos youth clubs ect BUT come on folks some people might just need a bit of confidence building . not everyone feels confident enough to just get out on the floor and can you really blame them when theres so many s**t dancefloors about nowadays ?

i have to say this too ITS A SNOBBY SCENE ALL ROUND REALLY ISNT IT ?

Edited February 22, 2010 by becchio

[Baz Atkinson]

Most eloquent and succint post yet on this topic,Jock me and headsey are doing lifeline if you want to get down to the north east you can hop in with us-if you made no plans,

BAZ A

Hmm I normally stay out of this argument even more as it is been done to death, but in recent times this view is seen as majority and I think that is not the history of the scene I know.

I am not totally sure about the point you are making here, but I suspect you are holding this up as positive reasons why the "retro Northern scene" deserves to exist, I think it actually highlights very nicely why it was such a negative thing. These scenes, as does the current Northern retro scene, always seem to focus on a very limited point in history and pay an everlasting tribute to this time and its fashions, forgetting that these fashions were worn only by the most modern of that time, often any musical content is just an equal part, or in my opinion sometimes less important part, than the fashions and in reality people are far more into the scene than the music in isolation, and it almost always turns out to be just a fad, which in my opinion, although arguably I accept, is a parallel for the Northern retro scene.

To many people, ironic as it may seem, the Northern scene was never about looking back, it was always about looking forward to next new sound and during all of the 80's and most of the 90's that was the scene completely 100%, and the attitude, of which there was lots, was directed towards keeping the scene like that, and dare I say it preserving its integrity. Even the fashions were the fashion of the day, particularly the early to late 80's, then followed by whatever people wore to go out.

The scene you champion in reality only reflects a very small period of NS history, and parts of that period seems to reflect the worst in musical times for NS. I think what annoys many of us who weren't around for lots of that, I only started going in 79, is that many try and portray now that is and was the only NS fashion, which is just historically incorrect and for many of us it washes away the fantastic scene of the 80's and 90's, in reality it is rewriting history, which as a historian seems a strange choice for you. In all honesty it is embarrassing for many of us as that is how people assume our scene was, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth, I do accept the over the top slagging may not be necessary, but sometimes raw emotion is evoked when something precious to people is patronised and bastardised. Since in reality the scene you champion and anything I was involved with are actually now only distant relatives, probably step relatives with only one birth connection, I genuinely do believe in the live and let live principle, however on recent times it has almost become sacrosanct to defend any alternative on here, leading to accusations of "being up our own asses" and such like, I think sometimes there needs to be a reality check, and in reality the scene you champion is far closer to those in the images you have here, but what you and others seem to forget that these were the kind of scenes many of us were rebelling against by being into Northern, and yes being nearly 50 and relatively comfortable in life, these rebellions may be not as relevant but what is important to me, in case its not obvious on this thread, is integrity, and presenting the Northern scene as purely a retro scene does no justice to the integrity that was so evident on the NS in my nearly 20 years of being a regular participant, and indeed led to my current apathy to anything called Northern.

I genuinely do not get involved in the debate as I think it has been argued before and nowadays any progressive Northern scene is being strangled to death by people who consider themselves a part of it, with repeated new nights playing the same old "newies" that have been played for years, therefore the retro scene in reality is of little consequence to that scene. But to me the reintroduction of the retro scene seriously damaged the healthy progressive Northern scene, however that is long past, but I think your arguments to live and let live go 2 ways, surely you can see why many of us do not recognise your vision of the scene, and indeed why sometimes it grates to be told that you represent the history of the NS, when it is not our history. There is a very thin line between moaning and informed opinion!

This isn't really to debate any further, it's really to present the other side, which is generally ignored out there these days.

[Ian Parker]

Ok lets come at this from a slightly different angle.With any long established "scene"(I hate that word)you will always have people on the periphery who think they are the centre of that scene.As an example,one of the other things I am into is my cars,specifically ,50s 60s Hotrods and Customs.The two magazines I look forward to are Car Kulture Deluxe and Custom Car.Two magazines about basically Hotrods,BUT one is all about the cars,build ups and tech articles with a small amount about Rod runs etc,the other has a lot about cars ,but also has Art/pin up/fashion..............probably edging towards rockabilly lifestyle................Which is right,which is the most reflective of the Hotrod scene.............probably Custom Car...........because it focuses on the cars rather than a small part of that scene..(The 1950s................which is what Rockabilly is about)............You wouldn't catch the majority of Hotrodders at Hembsby Weekender because of its ethos,but you would catch the Rockabillys at a Rodrun....................because it is about the cars first and foremost.

Similarly the Soul scene is about the music first and foremost,everything else is secondary.

THAT is why people get wound up when there is so much focus on a very small time window in a long running MUSIC "scene"(that f'in word again).

I don't give two shits how people dress or go about their daily lives,that is their choice,but from a personal point of view and this is just my opinion,I do find most nostalgia scenes not what they used to be,slightly odd,mainly because people who shout loudest about being there,doing it and wearing the trousers often didn't,and embarrasing to be associated with ......................because it just wasn't like that.

Just to go back to the car analogy..................Go to a rodrun in an old Marina with a mural painted on it and watch the reaction........................................................

Steve

I understand where you are coming from Steve

I have been a member of a few veteran & vintage car clubs & owned vintage cars myself, i used to do the London to Brighton in my 1920s Bullnose Morris & 1920s Flat Nose..............Some of my friends do own Hotrods & wear the clothing, but some dont & like i have said before, i have worn clothes from the 1900's to the 1970's & always will.

The scene has changed since i first got into it & that's only 20 odd years ago, i never would of thought there would be dance classes for it, it's not my kind of thing, but some people might want to do it......that's up to them & i should think that people who have been into it longer than me, must see a very big change, but that's just the way it is, but the music will always be a big part of my life

Some people who see me out & about would probably say im a bit eccentric in my dress, but i donot want people calling what i wear fancy dress, because it's not, it's just a bloody insult, because it's my everyday clothing..........Infact when i have been out i have had nothing but compliments, which is very nice..............so all i have been saying is, if folk want to wear bags with Northern Soul written all over them, it's up to them & people should not critise...........Talking about music, cars etc is one thing, but i think when you start talking about other folk's apperance...........it's too personal

The funny thing is.............the clothes get critisised by the men, but when my friends & myself are spinning in our circle skirts, they dont mind having a good look at our knickers

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Liam2005]

F*cking brilliant !! i haven't laughed so much at the scene for years....

she also looks like the granny in the comedy Benidorm pmsl

[Guest Matt Male]

The scene has changed since i first got into it & that's only 20 odd years ago,

Debbie x

Debbie, i don't think it's fancy dress and i think that you look great and the guys wear their high waisted baggies better than i did, even when i was 14.

What i don't understand though is why you've decided to wear a style that was fashionable on the scene ten years before you got into northern soul? I started going around '78 and even by then baggies and circle skirts were starting to go out of fashion. By the mid 80s they had disappeared. Take a look at the Oddfellows clips in the video section, there isn't a circle skirt in sight, most of the girls are wearing jeans or pegs and that's 1984. I expect when you came along around '89 things we're pretty much that way too.

Can you understand why some people think it doesn't make sense to adopt a retro look when most of us are trying to make northern soul a scene that is still enjoyed in 2010 and tend to think of it as a costume only worn at events?

Matt

[Wrongcrowd]

The scene has changed since i first got into it & that's only 20 odd years ago

So you feel that you need to dress in a style that was exaggerated by the mid 70's, and faded out (thankfully) very soon after, and way before you got involved......that's just bizzarre...most other's that feel the 'need to dress this way are reliving their halcyon youth, where as you appear to see it as a another retro fashion opportunity...it just gets worse.....

Edited February 22, 2010 by Wrongcrowd

[Ian Parker]

So you feel that you need to dress in a style that was exaggerated by the mid 70's, and faded out (thankfully) very soon after, and way before you got involved......that's just bizzarre...most other's that feel the 'need to dress this way are reliving their halcyon youth, where as you, you're just a sad mimic...it just gets worse.....

No im not a sad mimic, i wear my own style..........the only sad people are the one's that insult other people, which is you!

This maybe too hard for you to get your head around, because your just not getting it yet! but i have worn Victorian clothing, 1920s Egyptian revial clothing, 1930s Bias cut, 1940s Box suits, 1950s Burlesque, 1960s Bibba, Bus Stop & Granny Takes A Trip clothing, I do have a 1970s Spencers circle skirt, but that is part of my vintage clothing collection, as my profession is a vintage clothing & textile specialist from the 1600's to the 1970's,..........i have been into Northern Soul for over 20 year's, i like rare & underplayed, some oldies & i like early R n B & if people dont except me as me then its just tuff.

The bottom line is.........I DONT WANT TO WEAR MODERN CLOTHES, BECAUSE I DONT LIKE THE STYLES OF TODAY, I AM NOT A SOULIE, IM JUST DEBBIE.

Im not afraid to show my picture on here, how about you???

Debbie x

Edited February 22, 2010 by parkash

[Wiggyflat]

Wasn't the 1940s look a brief fad at the goldmine in Canvey Island in the mid-late seventies as was the american GI look. I'm sure it was very Roxy Music influenced and it was contemporary at the time but it didn't look tacky either.I'm sure there was a similar thing going on at Blackpool Mecca and correct me if I'm wrong but they werent in to baggies/vests. The guy in Rushtons book at the Mecca in the beertowel baggies looks well out of place(Francis Tee photo).The term northern soul means different things to different people.It has split so may ways now and theres so many genres it has almost lost it's meaning.

Theres revival mods who were brought up on a diet of stafford and 100 club sounds

Rockabillies who are into the very early almost doowop sounds

Wiganites into oldies and stompers

Progressives into cutting edge newies and b sides (some great and some stuff not so great)

New kids who have seen the Duffy video and want to find out what its about

Seventies and modern fans.Although Modern is a confusing term!!! Ex Mecca/Ritz and people from a Southport Soul Weekender history

The fashions

Mods in Ben Shermans,sideburns, smart trousers and a John Smedley crew neck

Rockabillies in turn up jeans and chain from the jean pocket

Wiganites.Moustache jeans and dress shirt

Progressives. Slick back hair (geek glasses). The 1950s american scientist look

New kids, skinny jeans, beard,pork pie hat (puzzled look on their faces)

Seventies and modern fans (still got a hint of the wedge there and would love to have highlights again)

Im sure if Northern Soul were transplanted back to the seventies people would be wearing what kids wear today.When did it stop going forward in music and clothes.I suspect the last big thing was Drizabone Pressure and the Angie Stone track.It seems to be going backwards not forwards.There is hope when the Kings Go Forth Track is played which is not a money grabbing cash in and a record made with some integrity.One eye to the past and one eye to the future.Re progressives.Theres a lot of these collectors/deejays who don't actually dance so cannot listen with a dancers ear which results in a lot of substandard stuff getting past the quality control although there is a lot of great stuff....was at Solid Hit Soul the other night and some great stuff was played (The Limitations was a blinder).My own choice is well produced late sixties with a strong dance beat dare i say it traditional northern soul and because I like a good production I have no problem with uptempo seventies either.I like a slow record at the end as well not in the middle of a set....It is funny in hindsight how Wigan gave up the chase for stompers because they thought that it had all been mined....threres a thread post Wigan stompers....

[Ian Parker]

Debbie, i don't think it's fancy dress and i think that you look great and the guys wear their high waisted baggies better than i did, even when i was 14.

What i don't understand though is why you've decided to wear a style that was fashionable on the scene ten years before you got into northern soul? I started going around '78 and even by then baggies and circle skirts were starting to go out of fashion. By the mid 80s they had disappeared. Take a look at the Oddfellows clips in the video section, there isn't a circle skirt in sight, most of the girls are wearing jeans or pegs and that's 1984. I expect when you came along around '89 things we're pretty much that way too.

Can you understand why some people think it doesn't make sense to adopt a retro look when most of us are trying to make northern soul a scene that is still enjoyed in 2010 and tend to think of it as a costume only worn at events?

Matt

Thank you Matt

I do understand what you are saying

I do wear circle skirts, but my influence was not from the 1970s Northern Scene, it was from a 1950s Audrey Hepburn film & my fav Victorian book Alice In Wonderland

I have only been into Northern Soul for 20 odd years, but i have been wearing vintage clothing from all era's for about 30 odd years, it was apart of my job as well as an interest, im only being honest with everyone

The funny thing is, that i have only been into a modern clothing store within the past couple of years, dont really like modern clothing, & the shops are so noisy i do prefer to wear vintage, might buy something new, if it looks vintage in design.

I dont think people understand me on here But i cant help the way i am...........i would feel strange in modern dress, im very comfy as i am, even if everyone else was dressed modern

I lived 5 years of my life as if i were in the 20's with no modern appliance, i found it a really interesting experience & i really enjoyed it & i would do it again

So i do dress vintage all the time, not just at a Soul night, but i dont want folk to judge me on the way i dress, i would prefer people to get to know me as a person :thumbup

I might look & seem a bit strange to some of you, but i dont bite!

Debbie x

Edited February 23, 2010 by parkash