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I HAVE DECIDED TO PUT DOWN IN WORDS OUR FONDEST AND FUNNIEST MEMORIES OF THE GOOD LADY MARGE RIMMER!I KNOW THAT DAVE IS GETTING A GREAT DEAL OF COMFORT FROM WHAT HES BEEN READING HERE ON SOUL SOURCE , SO PLEASE DO ADD ANYTHING THAT SPRINGS TO MIND, AND TO GET IT GOING HERES ONE OF MINE...

WELL MAGGIE DON'T DRINK LIKE I DO, BUT.. A FEW YEARS AGO AT SILKS IN NORTHAMPTON, I MANAGED TO PURSUED HER TO PARTAKE IN THE FINE ART OF WINE DRINKING, AND HALF WAY THROUGH THE NITE WE WHERE BOTH PISSED AS FARTS, AND THIS TIME WE BOTH LEANED ON EACH OTHER, DAVE TOOK A PHOTO OF US, WHICH I CANT FIND BUT I THINK DAVE HAS IT! BUT SHE WOULD NEVER GO HOME DRUNK NO WAY, AND PROMPTLY SOBERED UP BE-FOR GETTING HOME..SHE WOULD NEVER LET THE BOYS SEE THEIR MUM DRUNK!

....THIS WAS ONLY THE SECOND TIME SHE WAS DRUNK IN HER WHOLE LIFE... SUCH A BAD INFLUENCE AM I OR WHAT!

SOME FACTS YOU MAY HAVE KNOWN ARE NOT.

SHE LOVED HANDBAGS AND PRACTICALLY HAD ONE FOR EVERY OCCASION!

YOU WAS AN EXPERT ON BEER! AND COULD TELL BY THE TASTE OF IT WHAT IS WAS ETC, BUT NEVER DRUNK ANY!

WAS A VERY ARTISTIC PERSON AND VERY PATIENT..HAD TO BE TO PUT UP WITH ME!

LOVED TATTOOS,S AND KNEW AN AWFUL LOT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THEM!

WAS A MASSIVE CHUCK JACKSON FAN, AND WOULD HAVE A CD ON IN THE CAR OF HIS SONGS!

GOT ON FAMOUSLY WITH MY DAUGHTER AND ALWAYS SAID SHE WOULD FIT INTO HER HOUSEHOLD LIKE A GLOVE, JUST AS IF SHE WAS HER OWN !

LIKED SILVER JEWELRY AND SPARKLY WATCHES WHICH SHE HAS A VAST ARRAY OF!

LOVED A GOOD BOOK ESPECIALLY IN THE BATH!

LIKED A CURRY AND A GOOD FILM ON A SAT NITE IF SHE HAD TO STOP IN!

AND LIKED TO GAMBLE AT THE CASINO MUCH TO DAVE'S ANNOYANCE, HER FAVORITE SLOT WAS THE CLEOPATRA!

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Posted (edited)

I have to say that me and Maggie did most of our laughing in our car when travelling up and down the M6....

One of the funniest times i can remember was, Dave & Maggie on the back seats and us in the front travelling to CIS Manchester Allnighter, Maggie always sat the back of Phil, Phil would always open the window slightly, to cut a long story short By the time we got there Maggie was covered in ciggerette ash from Phil & Dave's Fags,of course we blamed Dave like we always did, Maggie was'nt amused as she did'nt smoke....She gave Dave a bollocking, I just fell apart with the expression on her face. by the end of the nighter we were both laughing so much and poor Dave did'nt say a word.

Maggie loved to laugh, and she enjoyed good times, those good times are now wonderful memories of a beautiful lady that i will hold dear in my heart forever.

I think we have loads of memories of good times with us all together Lou, Thanks for starting this thread. Suzy xx

I have 2 dvd's Lou with Maggie on them, one was our wedding the other was my 50th birthday. xx

Edited by Suzy
Posted (edited)

What a truly wonderful idea Lou.. thumbsup.gif

I didn't know Margie very well, if at all really, other than on those occasions when (usually) it would be you & Woody, Margie & Dave, arriving together at a venue I was also attending.

I wish I had some wonderful tales - the likes that, I'm certain, will form part of what I hope will be a long-running thread on here - but, sadly (and feeling I've missed out on something 'very special' in close friendship with Margie) I don't. sad.gif

The next best thing to that, now, for me ?? I'm looking forward to learning more of the Margie I didn't have the privilege, or pleasure, to know.. From the stories and anecdotes certain to appear over these coming pages. good.gif

Fingers smile.gif

Edited by FickleFingers
Posted

I HAVE DECIDED TO PUT DOWN IN WORDS OUR FONDEST AND FUNNIEST MEMORIES OF THE GOOD LADY MARGE RIMMER!I KNOW THAT DAVE IS GETTING A GREAT DEAL OF COMFORT FROM WHAT HES BEEN READING HERE ON SOUL SOURCE , SO PLEASE DO ADD ANYTHING THAT SPRINGS TO MIND, AND TO GET IT GOING HERES ONE OF MINE...

WELL MAGGIE DON'T DRINK LIKE I DO, BUT.. A FEW YEARS AGO AT SILKS IN NORTHAMPTON, I MANAGED TO PURSUED HER TO PARTAKE IN THE FINE ART OF WINE DRINKING, AND HALF WAY THROUGH THE NITE WE WHERE BOTH PISSED AS FARTS, AND THIS TIME WE BOTH LEANED ON EACH OTHER, DAVE TOOK A PHOTO OF US, WHICH I CANT FIND BUT I THINK DAVE HAS IT! BUT SHE WOULD NEVER GO HOME DRUNK NO WAY, AND PROMPTLY SOBERED UP BE-FOR GETTING HOME..SHE WOULD NEVER LET THE BOYS SEE THEIR MUM DRUNK!

....THIS WAS ONLY THE SECOND TIME SHE WAS DRUNK IN HER WHOLE LIFE... SUCH A BAD INFLUENCE AM I OR WHAT!

SOME FACTS YOU MAY HAVE KNOWN ARE NOT.

SHE LOVED HANDBAGS AND PRACTICALLY HAD ONE FOR EVERY OCCASION!

YOU WAS AN EXPERT ON BEER! AND COULD TELL BY THE TASTE OF IT WHAT IS WAS ETC, BUT NEVER DRUNK ANY!

WAS A VERY ARTISTIC PERSON AND VERY PATIENT..HAD TO BE TO PUT UP WITH ME!

LOVED TATTOOS,S AND KNEW AN AWFUL LOT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THEM!

WAS A MASSIVE CHUCK JACKSON FAN, AND WOULD HAVE A CD ON IN THE CAR OF HIS SONGS!

GOT ON FAMOUSLY WITH MY DAUGHTER AND ALWAYS SAID SHE WOULD FIT INTO HER HOUSEHOLD LIKE A GLOVE, JUST AS IF SHE WAS HER OWN !

LIKED SILVER JEWELRY AND SPARKLY WATCHES WHICH SHE HAS A VAST ARRAY OF!

LOVED A GOOD BOOK ESPECIALLY IN THE BATH!

LIKED A CURRY AND A GOOD FILM ON A SAT NITE IF SHE HAD TO STOP IN!

AND LIKED TO GAMBLE AT THE CASINO MUCH TO DAVE'S ANNOYANCE, HER FAVORITE SLOT WAS THE CLEOPATRA!

Lou, what very lovely tribute to a very special lady

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QoFxx

Posted

Used to sit next to Marge at Rugby looking after Daves records whilst he was on one of his many fag breaks, she really was well loved by loads of people coming into the record room and most of all she loved all the disgusting jokes me and Dave swopped on our phones. a great lady will really miss her on the 13th

Guest Mrs Simsy
Posted (edited)

Used to sit next to Marge at Rugby looking after Daves records whilst he was on one of his many fag breaks, she really was well loved by loads of people coming into the record room and most of all she loved all the disgusting jokes me and Dave swopped on our phones. a great lady will really miss her on the 13th

I would always come & sit with her for a bit for a chat and she would always give advice or gently tell you off if you were doing something daft.:thumbsup: It always made me laugh that Lou & Margie would mix me & my sister up. I'm really going to miss you Margie.xx

Edited by Mrs Simsy
Posted

may and me didnt get to meet maggie very often but on one of the few occasions i offered to take dave to ludlow to do a set on sunshine radio and maggie met may properly then. it was a good hour/quarter drive so plenty of chatting great tunes for two hours, then the charlton arms by the bridge for copious amounts of beer for dave and andy.v whilst we brought up the rear on coke and lemonade!, oh and several baskets of doorstep sized chips!!....then back to london heights with dave leavin a smoke trail behind. its funny because the first time i took dave to the station the year before he witnessed me chatting up my future partner on the phone-in...how ironic is that?. will never forget either the train journey's from wolvo to london for the 100 club...dave was a godsend with the groupie tickets...£7 return? HOW GOOD WAS THAT?!...with ken,mr. preston, carl and a host of others. you guys out there witnessed her devotion to dave and the scene far more than us but on the occasions we were local we did see maggie with her man and we always had a chat....we both agree with this thread.....EVERYBODY OUT THERE, WEAR YOUR HEARTS ON YOUR SLEEVES AND TELL IT LIKE IT IS ....MAKE MAGGIE AND DAVE'S BOOK TALK.

MAY AND ROB

Posted (edited)

What a truly wonderful idea Lou.. thumbsup.gif

I didn't know Margie very well, if at all really, other than on those occasions when (usually) it would be you & Woody, Margie & Dave, arriving together at a venue I was also attending.

I wish I had some wonderful tales - the likes that, I'm certain, will form part of what I hope will be a long-running thread on here - but, sadly (and feeling I've missed out on something 'very special' in close friendship with Margie) I don't. sad.gif

The next best thing to that, now, for me ?? I'm looking forward to learning more of the Margie I didn't have the privilege, or pleasure, to know.. From the stories and anecdotes certain to appear over these coming pages. good.gif

Fingers smile.gif

Actually.. I do have ONE story - if it can be called that.

It was one of those occasions I mentioned above, and a Rugby 'Niter..

Margie had only recently passed her driving test (fantastic achievement..) and - talking to her through her open window of the car, whilst Dave & Woody took forever to extricate themselves from the vehicle - I was congratulating her on the fact of passing her test when she commented on not looking forward to a prospect of having to chauffeur Dave on his vast, weekly, travels.

I explained it simply, and advised she tell him to 'Bugger off and get a train' !! (as he regularly does/has done) as 'I'm off to wherever the fancy takes me'. Because, now, having all of a sudden won a new-found type of independence from that ability to drive, she could actually please herself and.. 'Sod you, Dave, see you in the morning sometime.. Oh, and don't wait up for me - I've no idea what time I'll be back' !!

Margie gave a wicked & knowing chuckle as the scenario worked it's way in her mind, warming more by the second to that precise realisation..

Dave.. Plus

Drive to 'Niter.. Divided by

My Independance.. Equals..

Sorry.. The computer say's NO !!

Yep !! That's gonna be my personal lasting memory of the good Lady. thumbup.gif

Fingers

Edited by FickleFingers
Posted (edited)

Glad you decided to go ahead with this Lou, it's a great idea...thumbup.gif

So many great memories are pouring into my head and for the first time since Friday morning, I'm sat with a silly grin on my face.

Margie didn't swear, the poor woman having to travel with me "complaining" about other drivers...I even found myself apologising.

There are not many people who could command that much respect from me...smile.gif

This is one of my fav photos of Margie because I knew by the smile on her face that she was doing or watching something naughty.

She did tell me what it was afterwards but silly me can't remember.

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She had a fantastic, dry sense of humour and a hint of the devil in her...

It was completely down to her that she managed to catch me off my guard "dancing" at the French weekender, Dave could never even get a photo...rolleyes.gif

Thank you Margie for touching my life, I feel a better person for having met you...wink.gif

Edited by Rugby Soul Club
Posted

Glad you decided to go ahead with this Lou, it's a great idea...thumbup.gif

So many great memories are pouring into my head and for the first time since Friday morning, I'm sat with a silly grin on my face.

Margie didn't swear, the poor woman having to travel with me "complaining" about other drivers...I even found myself apologising.

There are not many people who could command that much respect from me...smile.gif

This is one of my fav photos of Margie because I knew by the smile on her face that she was doing or watching something naughty.

She did tell me what it was afterwards but silly me can't remember.

post-1225-12649764357822_thumb.jpg

She had a fantastic, dry sense of humour and a hint of the devil in her...

It was completely down to her that she managed to catch me off my guard "dancing" at the French weekender, Dave could never even get a photo...rolleyes.gif

Thank you Margie for touching my life, I feel a better person for having met you...wink.gif

SIAN, THREE THINGS MAGGIE NEVER DID, SWEAR.DRINK.SMOKE, HOWEVER WITH MY WARPED SENSE OF HUMOR, I GOT MAGGIE TO HOLD MY CIGARETTE AS IF SHE WAS SMOKING, AND ON THAT NITE WHEN WE WERE DRUNK I SAID YOU HAVE TO SAY THE F WORD,NO SHE SAID, OH PLEASE MAGGIE, SO SHE DID, BUT SHE ALWAYS MAINTAINED IT WAS FLUFFING ECK,JUST TO PACIFIE ME!WE ALWAYS LAUGHED ABOUT THIS MANY TIMES.

2 MORE FACTS FOR YOU. CANT FOCUS SO MANY THINGS TO REMEMBER

SHE WAS BOUGHT UP ON A FARM IN LUDLOW..

SHE HAS A VERY FAMOUS DESENDENT..THE LAST HANGMAN OF DUDLEY!!!

NO WONDER I NEVER LIKE TO SEE HER BEHIND ME WITH HER HANDS ON MY SHOULDERS!!!!

SHE HAD A UNIQUE WAY OF SPOILING ME, SO MUCH WILL I MISS THE FACT THAT AT XMAS AND SUCH SHE WOULD ALWAYS SUPRISE ME WITH A BAG OF GOODIES, SOUGHT OUT AT GREAT THOUGHT TO DELIGHT ME AND MAKE ME FEEL SO SPECIAL..

LIKE THE WAY SHE WOULD ALWAYS GET THE SWEETIES FOR THE CAR JOURNEY, I TOLD HER I LOVE LIQUORISH, SO SHE GOT ME A BIG BAG WHEN WE WAS ON THE WAY TO RUGBY, DONT EAT THEM ALL AT ONCE OR THEY WILL GIVE YOU A BELLY ACHE, THEY WERE THE ONES IN A COIL WITH AN ALLSORT IN THE MIDDLE, BUT OF COURSE, I KEPT ON HAVING A NIBBLE AND WOULD NOT SHARE.

ARE YOU EATING THEM LOU, SHE KEPT ASKING, NO I SAID, YOU ARE SHE SAID, DONT BLAME ME IF THEY MAKE YOU GO YOU (KNOW WHERE I MEAN,)SHE SAID, BUT BY HALF WAY TO RUGHY, THEY WAS ALL GONE, AND YES THEY WORKED!, SHE NEVER BOUGHT ME ANY AGAIN!

Posted

What a lovely thread Lou

First time I met you and Margie I explainedhow I had come out of the ladies with my skirt tucked in my knickers at Rugby,and how it took some time and turns on the dancefloor before anyone helped mewith my modesty. Both you and Margie as I met you were so sympathetic (not)because you both said not, 'how awful and embarrassing it must have been', buthow you wished you'd seen it. Thanks, gals.laugh.gif I liked you both so much from that moment on.thumbup.gif

To redeem myself (again, not) Margie foundgreat fun in something else that happened to me at another Rugby niter but Ishan't share it on t'interweb because it's a case of too much information,perhaps. Worse than exposed knickers.

I shall miss her laughing at me, and thelack of mirth and sense of general good fun and warmth that was meant by it.

xxx

Posted (edited)

Margie.........well i knew her as a true friend and a wonderfull wonderfull lady.

A couple of years back i had promised to take Dave up to Lifeline,and duly called in at the house,Margie opens the door and gives me a great big cuddle and without further ado puts the kettle on.......good girl,says to me "well you know where he is" in his record room yet again,but i say sod Dave its you ive come to see.....laugh or what nearly wet herself..

Dave and Margie's two lads Tony & Martin adored their mum and she adored them,she used to joke with them that if they misbehaved she would get that Cockney Gangster on them,meaning me......i used to say to Margie have you seen the size of them two,they would eat me alive......her reponse was ah they dont know that and laugh.

When my relation ship with Mandy was over Margie always asked if i ok ,she cared about other people no matter what,and never took sides,an honest lady.

Also when she had passed her driving test,we were talking one day about cars and stuff,she said sshe wanted to get a Corsa car,but it had to be black..why ? i never found out.Well i had one in the garage a Corsa (black),i didnt use it (it had not been driven for over a year),so i offerd it to Margie....she got what she wanted the car of her choice,when it got deliverd to her she was over the moon .........im so so glad it went to Margie,she loved that car and in time drove everywhere in it,

I turned up at Loughborough one night and low and behold there it was in the car park looking like a brand new motor(it had never looked so good),i went in there was Margie & Dave,she saidd how did you know we were here ...the car i said .....it did make her laugh.....bless her.

My fondest memory of Margie is her smile,her love of Dave & the lads Tony & Martin,and real honest lady who always had time for others,ill miss you Margie RIP

A note for Dave,Tony & Martin....i know its hard boys but be strong, Margie would have wanted you to be,you must be proud of her a wonderfull lady.

Thanks for being my friend Margie xx

Toby..

Edited by toby
Guest soulboy
Posted

SIAN, THREE THINGS MAGGIE NEVER DID, SWEAR.DRINK.SMOKE, HOWEVER WITH MY WARPED SENSE OF HUMOR, I GOT MAGGIE TO HOLD MY CIGARETTE AS IF SHE WAS SMOKING, AND ON THAT NITE WHEN WE WERE DRUNK I SAID YOU HAVE TO SAY THE F WORD,NO SHE SAID, OH PLEASE MAGGIE, SO SHE DID, BUT SHE ALWAYS MAINTAINED IT WAS FLUFFING ECK,JUST TO PACIFIE ME!WE ALWAYS LAUGHED ABOUT THIS MANY TIMES.

2 MORE FACTS FOR YOU. CANT FOCUS SO MANY THINGS TO REMEMBER

SHE WAS BOUGHT UP ON A FARM IN LUDLOW..

SHE HAS A VERY FAMOUS DESENDENT..THE LAST HANGMAN OF DUDLEY!!!

NO WONDER I NEVER LIKE TO SEE HER BEHIND ME WITH HER HANDS ON MY SHOULDERS!!!!

SHE HAD A UNIQUE WAY OF SPOILING ME, SO MUCH WILL I MISS THE FACT THAT AT XMAS AND SUCH SHE WOULD ALWAYS SUPRISE ME WITH A BAG OF GOODIES, SOUGHT OUT AT GREAT THOUGHT TO DELIGHT ME AND MAKE ME FEEL SO SPECIAL..

LIKE THE WAY SHE WOULD ALWAYS GET THE SWEETIES FOR THE CAR JOURNEY, I TOLD HER I LOVE LIQUORISH, SO SHE GOT ME A BIG BAG WHEN WE WAS ON THE WAY TO RUGBY, DONT EAT THEM ALL AT ONCE OR THEY WILL GIVE YOU A BELLY ACHE, THEY WERE THE ONES IN A COIL WITH AN ALLSORT IN THE MIDDLE, BUT OF COURSE, I KEPT ON HAVING A NIBBLE AND WOULD NOT SHARE.

ARE YOU EATING THEM LOU, SHE KEPT ASKING, NO I SAID, YOU ARE SHE SAID, DONT BLAME ME IF THEY MAKE YOU GO YOU (KNOW WHERE I MEAN,)SHE SAID, BUT BY HALF WAY TO RUGHY, THEY WAS ALL GONE, AND YES THEY WORKED!, SHE NEVER BOUGHT ME ANY AGAIN!

Sorry i never knew her that well ,i do rememeber her from the manor days a little but never knew she was from ludlow , lovely smile thats all that counts x

Posted (edited)

Only spoke to Margie a few times and mostly to enquire where Dave was hiding but i will always remember the smile on here face and the twinkle in her eyes hatsoff2.gif

Steve

Edited by Winsford Soul
Posted

Ill never forget Margie, we all had a laugh when ever we all got together, she was a great girl & like everyone else i was blessed to have been friends with her, have had lots of laughs with her over the years bless her x

Posted

I HOPE ITS OK WITH ALL OF YOU TO CARRY ON WITH THIS.BUT A COUPLE OF SNIPPETS THAT I HOPE WILL HELP YOU SEE HER WICKED SENSE OF HUMOUR!

AT ONE NITER WHILST DAVE WAS DJ,ING, ME AND MAGGIE COUNTED ALL THE COINS FROM HIS SALES, AND DID A BIT OF GIGGERY POKERY, SO SHE COULD HAVE A GO ON THE SLOTS,AND HE NEVER KNEW, WELL HE DOES NOW, :thumbsup:

BUT WHEN WE DID GO, WHICH BY THE WAY WAS NOT VERY OFTEN, I DONT WANT YOU TO THINK SHE WAS AN AVID GAMBLER, IT WAS JUST SOMMAT TO DO IF WE WAS BORED, BUT SHE ALWAYS GAVE DAVE HALF HER WINNINGS , OR SO HE THOUGHT, BECAUSE I WAS SENT TO DISTRACT HIM, WHILE SHE SLOWLEY HID SOME OF THE MONEY, DAVE THINKS HE HAD HALF BUT INFACT ONLY A QUARTER, SORRY DAVE!

AT DUBLIN AT THE GUINNESS FACTORY, DAVE WAS INTENT ON GETTING TO THE TOP FOR THE FREE PINT OF GUINNESS, BUT WE WAS BORED SHITLESS, AND HAD A GOOD GIGGLE ABOUT IT AFTER, COS WE TOLD HIM HOW MUCH WE ENJOYED IT, AND HOW INTERESTING IT ALL WAS, SORRY DAVE :thumbsup:

SHE WAS BRILLAINT AT TAKING PHOTOGRATHS, AND MOST OF THE PHOTOS IN DAVES MAG WHERE TAKEN BY MAGGIE, SHE HAD A GREAT EYE FOR DETAIL!

ONE THING MAGGIE TAUGHT ME IS TO LIVE ..LOVE AND LET LIVE.WHICH IS WAHT I WILL DO FROM NOW ON!

Posted

So glad you decided to start this Lou I think it'll be great for Dave and the Boys to read, gonna put the story up that I told you the other night that had you laughing.

Anyway last year at the Sunflower lounge at the end of the night I went to say my goodbye's and went over to Margie got a big hug and smile as usual and she says we'll see you at your next do and I says oh don't think you'll be there as it's the 100 Club the same night so think Dave will be going there she just turned round quick as a flash as says we'll be there must admit I couldn't stop laughing the way she said it but on the night sure enough they we're virtually first through the door, still really makes me laugh.

Sharon


Posted

i havent been out much at all these last 2 years....but i did see dave at the 100 club anni ...with the keith money flowered washbag incident but thats a whole other story.........anyway onto margie......only went ot the house once but it stands out as one of the finest cuppas ive ever had along with a very warm welcome....

as mentioned in the first thread her sense of humour was wicked....she rushed up to me at the CIS one nite proudly proclaiming she was at last a proper soulie...then produced a minature niter bag ( handbag) complete with patches and a selection of flexi discs in the zipped pocket on the end of the bag.....

it stands out a mile how well respected she was by everyone that she met...and lets face it if she kept dave in check all these years she must have been superwoman and deserves a medal at the very least !!

sleep well margie..xxxxx

Posted

I just cant add anymore to what has been said already.....but Margie was one of those women that once met ...never ever forget...just the chinwags we use ta have...in the Ladies at Rugby..and also her cracking up so loudly when i beat Tabs in a drinking contest at the first Cleethorpes i went too...has firmly been stamped in my memory and heart....i really cant imagine what Dave and their sons are going thru....i am and sure others are hurting like mad.....all i can say ..is that is was great to have met ya Bird...am gonna miss ya loads darling...take care hun...l8ters .x

Guest Mrs Simsy
Posted

I just cant add anymore to what has been said already.....but Margie was one of those women that once met ...never ever forget...just the chinwags we use ta have...in the Ladies at Rugby..and also her cracking up so loudly when i beat Tabs in a drinking contest at the first Cleethorpes i went too...has firmly been stamped in my memory and heart....i really cant imagine what Dave and their sons are going thru....i am and sure others are hurting like mad.....all i can say ..is that is was great to have met ya Bird...am gonna miss ya loads darling...take care hun...l8ters .x

I remember that!laugh.gif I remember having had one too many at a Middleton one night & Margie starting asking loads of questions about my bag because one of her son's girlfriends wanted one & she made me stand there until i remembered the name of the place i'd got it:lol: Still can't quite believe it. As Del has said, Margie is already terribly missed.

Enjoying the photos, will dig mine out too.:thumbup:

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