Shirley Lawson Bootlegged

[michael-j]

Gloria Irving/Charm

the Gloria Irving / Betty Everett 45 on 'Charm' is not one of this batch of boots btw, it's a licensed reissue

https://www.discogs.com/label/Jukebox+Jam+Series

but you're right about there being loads of R&B/doo wop boots in the past, it's just that a lot of the stuff being played at mod and soul-scene R&B events (as opposed to 50s rocking ones) hadn't really been touched until now

[pikeys dog]

but you're right about there being loads of R&B/doo wop boots in the past, it's just that a lot of the stuff being played at mod and soul-scene R&B events (as opposed to 50s rocking ones) hadn't really been touched until now

Exactly the point I was trying to make - there's loads of Doo Wop/Blues boots/ re-issues out there but not many that would be searched for by the "R&B" collectors/DJs - now it's the 'safe' R&B tracks that are being pressed up - how long before the proper R&B / Northern crossover tracks get booted?

[Marc Forrest]

LOL! Just came bback from a local record shop...on the table was what once was a box full of these shite bootlegs, Otis Rush/Cobra and Checker, Albert Washington/Finch, Jack Pot, Billy Lamont/King even Sax Kari on J.O.B. plus loads of other titles.

Hopefully the legal owners of the rights of these titkles will track those criminals down and sue them heavily. No mercy with the bootleggers shall be my new parole for this year LOL!

I expect the usual suspects in this town to fire one hellfire of rockabilly and R&B bootlegs next time they will have accepted their next exclusive dj booking for 50 EUR LOL!

Marc

[De-to]

Valley of Souls is Mick Smith but he's selling it not making it...

Edited February 13, 2010 by de-to

[Pete S]

not being funny pete but making or selling not much difference imo,wasnt it a few years ago mick"i dont sell bootlegs" smith,coat and hat on im gone,!!!

Er...actually there's a big difference, manufacturer makes 5 times more than the seller.

If you want to ask Mick about his policies you're welcome but at every record fair he has a hundred or so pressings and reissues as do most people.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Pete S

[Marc Forrest]

I didn`t rob the bank I was only driving

[Pete S]

I didn`t rob the bank I was only driving

Yawn

[De-to]

Er...actually there's a big difference, manufacturer makes 5 times more than the seller.

If you want to ask Mick about his policies you're welcome but at every record fair he has a hundred or so pressings and reissues as do most people.

Edited February 13, 2010 by de-to

[Marc Forrest]

Yawn

tim to go to bed already Mr Smith ?

[Marc Forrest]

sorry pete but imo making/selling/buying boots is all the same to me,whilst there is money to be made it will never ever stop just look at the stuff on e-bay i and lots of other people have reported dodgy sellers but nothing ever happens,its only my opinion mate

..and mine as severals other peoples opinion too.

[Pete S]

tim to go to bed already Mr Smith ?

What you starting on me for, I'm not making them or selling them, go find out who is and bend their ears instead, and you De-to. Or ring Mick Smith up and tell him he's a bootleg selling tw*t and see what sort of response you get.

[De-to]

all posts hopefully removed i dont need the aggro,sorry,

Edited February 13, 2010 by de-to

[Marc Forrest]

What you starting on me for, I'm not making them or selling them, go find out who is and bend their ears instead, and you De-to. Or ring Mick Smith up and tell him he's a bootleg selling tw*t and see what sort of response you get.

I found your statement about the moral difference between publishers and sellers of bootlegs silly to say the least. Thats why I did use a metapher to describe my opinion about that. It was you who sadly had nth better to add than just "yawn".

Anyway, I won`t change the world especially not tonight, so all I have to say is I don`t like bootlegs being made, sold or whatever. Simple as that. Thats what I would also tell Mick. Except for him being a twat though as I must admit not to share that opinion of yours LOL

[Marc Forrest]

all posts hopefully removed i dont need the aggro,sorry,

which is sad as other people won`t understand now the last 30 minutes of the communication between Pete you and me. But we should close this thread anyhow maybe LOL. Good night everybody.

Marc

Edited February 13, 2010 by Marc Forrest

[De-to]

which is sad as other people won`t understand now the last 30 minutes of the communication between Pete you and me. But we should close this thread anyhow maybe LOL. Good night everybody.

Marc

sorry marc,but as i said it was only my opinion but i really do not need anymore cr*p in my life at this time,i really enjoy soul-source its a sort of a refuge from things that are were/going on in my life at this time and do not want to upset anyone after what ive been through and just getting over its peace man from me,!!!

[Pete S]

I found your statement about the moral difference between publishers and sellers of bootlegs silly to say the least. Thats why I did use a metapher to describe my opinion about that. It was you who sadly had nth better to add than just "yawn".

Anyway, I won`t change the world especially not tonight, so all I have to say is I don`t like bootlegs being made, sold or whatever. Simple as that. Thats what I would also tell Mick. Except for him being a twat though as I must admit not to share that opinion of yours LOL

I wasn't making a case for morals, I was stating a fact that the person who presses them makes more than the person who sells them, I didn't say it was a good thing, bad thing, or indifferent thing, you just read into it whatever you wanted and started mouthing off, I had nothing better to say than YAWN because you're like a stuck record, heard it a thousand times before.

Oh, and p.s. you could find out who did these bootlegs in about 20 minutes if you really wanted to

Edited February 13, 2010 by Pete S

[Guest DeeJay]

No, I don't think many will agree with you on that.

You will not be able to find the right kind of plastic for the vinyl, the new mastering will be different, the paper for the label will be different, the printing style will be different etc.

The only counterfeits of 60s records that have even come close to look and sound convincing I have ever seen were produced during the early 70s.

I was talking to a well known US dealer that's continually being questioned on whether or not his records are originals or boots he's producing. Although he's a he is pretty knowledgeable, and doesn't just deal in Northern, i think he also specializes in doo wop, rnb, and blues etc. He seconded all the challenges with making "modern" boots that's been mentioned. He especially emphasized the "paper" point. Apparently that type of paper is no longer available, something to do with the manufacturing process being toxic. However, he did come up with a suggestion. If someone did really want to produce authentic boots, then they would have to acquire paper from the period.

dj

[Marc Forrest]

sorry marc,but as i said it was only my opinion but i really do not need anymore cr*p in my life at this time,i really enjoy soul-source its a sort of a refuge from things that are were/going on in my life at this time and do not want to upset anyone after what ive been through and just getting over its peace man from me,!!!

Top post

[Marc Forrest]

...I had nothing better to say than YAWN because you're like a stuck record, heard it a thousand times before.

stuck record...funny, thats what I think everytime I hear you telling the soul-source world over and over again that you are selling 45s at the lowest rate and how much more money you could make if you would demand prices top end just like so and so..

Oh, and p.s. you could find out who did these bootlegs in about 20 minutes if you really wanted to

I did. In fact it wasn`t 20 minutes but a 5 minute conversation.

[Marc Forrest]

the Gloria Irving / Betty Everett 45 on 'Charm' is not one of this batch of boots btw, it's a licensed reissue

https://www.discogs.c...ebox+Jam+Series

Hi Michael, they were not licensed in the true meaning of the term...the publisher used the 50-year-law in order to publish these...45s.

At the moment one can publish any title older than 50 years without having to care about any copyrights or licensing at all.

So does that make these

Bootlegs ? No.

Licensed re-releases ? No.

Profitable record releases ? Sure.

Marc

[Mike]

Hi Michael, they were not licensed in the true meaning of the term...the publisher used the 50-year-law in order to publish these...45s.

At the moment one can publish any title older than 50 years without having to care about any copyrights or licensing at all.

So does that make these

Bootlegs ? No.

Licensed re-releases ? No.

Profitable record releases ? Sure.

Marc

50 years ?

is that all countries wide Marc

if so the clock is ticking.....

[Ted Massey]

50 years ?

is that all countries wide Marc

if so the clock is ticking.....

seem to remember cliff richard banging on about it on radio 2 last year

[Marc Forrest]

50 years ?

is that all countries wide Marc

if so the clock is ticking.....

Hi Mike, yeah, it is at the moment...some try to cancel that law for the UK though. So I have heard. If not we will see loads of new Northern Soul re-releases from about say 2015 onwards..

[Mike]

Hi Mike, yeah, it is at the moment...some try to cancel that law for the UK though. So I have heard. If not we will see loads of new Northern Soul re-releases from about say 2015 onwards..

interesting

it could have a reverse effect

if the re-issue experts are then playing on the same playground as the bootleggers

then they could in theory blow them out of the water

[Marc Forrest]

interesting

it could have a reverse effect

if the re-issue experts are then playing on the same playground as the bootleggers

then they could in theory blow them out of the water

Interesting thought, best case scenario.

[Tabs]

50 years it is according to this.

Info at bottom of page.

https://www.mpaonline.org.uk/faqs/what_is_cop.html

Hi Mike, yeah, it is at the moment...some try to cancel that law for the UK though. So I have heard. If not we will see loads of new Northern Soul re-releases from about say 2015 onwards..

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

50 years ?

is that all countries wide Marc

if so the clock is ticking.....

It's still 75 years in the US, Mike. Same as it ought to be everywhere else in the world - absolute minimum, if not longer.

Never understood why someone came up with the brainwave that recordings ought to fall into the public domain, and that this someone managed to convince a lot of other someones that setting a 50 year 'expiry date' was a clever thing to do.

The best hope we have of getting the 50 year thing changed is Sir Paul McCartney. For all his wealth he's pretty tight round a pound note. Can you imagine him ever accepting that the Beatles catalogue will start to become fair game for anyone with the ability to press up a CD, in less than two years time? Me neither...

[Ady Croasdell]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Ace continues to pay royalties and do legitimate deals for recordings over 50 years old so that the artist, producer writer etc still get their dues. I'm sure we will continue to do this with soul music and the customer can make the decision to buy the cheapies or the quality and continue to recompense the music makers. Of course dealing with the legitimate lanbelk owners continues to give us access to master tapes, photos, acetates and the unreleased gems that have helped support this scene of ours through sometimes thin times.

[Marc Forrest]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Ace continues to pay royalties and do legitimate deals for recordings over 50 years old so that the artist, producer writer etc still get their dues. I'm sure we will continue to do this with soul music and the customer can make the decision to buy the cheapies or the quality and continue to recompense the music makers. Of course dealing with the legitimate lanbelk owners continues to give us access to master tapes, photos, acetates and the unreleased gems that have helped support this scene of ours through sometimes thin times.

Well said and done and if anyone ever needed a reason why to choose the original legitime (re-) release and why to boycott bootlegs this sure has to be one of the best reasons.

[jocko]

Well said and done and if anyone ever needed a reason why to choose the original legitime (re-) release and why to boycott bootlegs this sure has to be one of the best reasons.

Seconded Marc, and something people seem to ignore. And for all those whod don'buy CD's you should as this is chance to really give something backl to artists rather than talk about, after all you don't have to play the things, just buy them

And as I said on the naughty thread, before it was removed, the overall package Kent produce is 2nd to none, for a tenner you get knowledge and some of the greatest music going, whats not to like. Although there are some other great companies like Soulscape that deserve to be supported.

And Ady donates about 20% of his income to alcohol producing firms most weekends, therefore creating jobs with his vast wages and keeping up his well known socialist principles.........

[funkyfeet]

25000 copies were pressed.

Most of them were destroyed, but it is believed that about 100-200 copies slipped out.

I would suggest more that that went out as they were actually shipped to record shops before being recalled.

[Guest JIM BARRY]

Seconded Marc, and something people seem to ignore. And for all those whod don'buy CD's you should as this is chance to really give something backl to artists rather than talk about, after all you don't have to play the things, just buy them

And as I said on the naughty thread, before it was removed, the overall package Kent produce is 2nd to none, for a tenner you get knowledge and some of the greatest music going, whats not to like. Although there are some other great companies like Soulscape that deserve to be supported.

And Ady donates about 20% of his income to alcohol producing firms most weekends, therefore creating jobs with his vast wages and keeping up his well known socialist principles.........

A WELL KNOWN CD COMPILER ONCE SAID TO ME ,WHEN THE SUBJECT OF ROYALTIES CAME UP ON THE TRACKS HE WAS DISTRIBUTING WAS "WHY PAY ROYALTIES THEY.D ONLY SPEND IT ON DRUGS". I KID YOU NOT.

[Ady Croasdell]

A WELL KNOWN CD COMPILER ONCE SAID TO ME ,WHEN THE SUBJECT OF ROYALTIES CAME UP ON THE TRACKS HE WAS DISTRIBUTING WAS "WHY PAY ROYALTIES THEY.D ONLY SPEND IT ON DRUGS". I KID YOU NOT.

That's as disgusting a stereotype as I've heard.

The new Lou Johnson CD could be made a case in point for supporting an artist. Due to a licensing anomaly Lou gets a higher percentage royalty than is normal and with all the tracks being his he'll get a sizeable royalty as has been reflected in the advance. If it sells well we'll be sending him more cheques and even though it's one of the best CDs ever in my opinion, you could actually just buy it for Lou who's had recent health problems but is a chipper chap with a great sense of humour and the right outlook on life.

[Guest JIM BARRY]

That's as disgusting a stereotype as I've heard.

The new Lou Johnson CD could be made a case in point for supporting an artist. Due to a licensing anomaly Lou gets a higher percentage royalty than is normal and with all the tracks being his he'll get a sizeable royalty as has been reflected in the advance. If it sells well we'll be sending him more cheques and even though it's one of the best CDs ever in my opinion, you could actually just buy it for Lou who's had recent health problems but is a chipper chap with a great sense of humour and the right outlook on life.

I WAS DISGUSTED AS WELL ADY, I APPLAUD YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS ALONG WITH TONY. YOU DO A FANTASTIC JOB. I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF YOUR COMPILATIONS AND WILL PURCHASE THE LOU JOHNSON C. D. FOR ITS CONTENT ALONE. I WON'T NAME NAMES , BUT I'LL WAGER YOU KNOW WHO I REFERRED TO. ATB JIM

[Ady Croasdell]

I WAS DISGUSTED AS WELL ADY, I APPLAUD YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS ALONG WITH TONY. YOU DO A FANTASTIC JOB. I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF YOUR COMPILATIONS AND WILL PURCHASE THE LOU JOHNSON C. D. FOR ITS CONTENT ALONE. I WON'T NAME NAMES , BUT I'LL WAGER YOU KNOW WHO I REFERRED TO. ATB JIM

One of three!

[Garethx]

As an aside to the debate on licensing and so on does anyone know anything about Shirley herself: the writer credits feature the same names as on The Soul Twins records and her Enterprise 45 is a Detroit thing but I wonder if there is more out there. Her Backbeat 45 is my type of Northern Soul.