The Real Deal

[Nige Brown]

Hello

Somebody on the record wants needs a copy of ,,,

CHANGE YOUR WAYS-- WILLIE KENDICKS - RCA

Well respected collector and recorded seller Pete Smith replyed with a post,,,,,

" Have you seen the prices people ask for this record? Up to £400. Real value is £250 for a WD and £400 for an issue. IT's not as if it's rare".

Which beggers the question who REALLY does decide the price on the records we buy??

The real value Pete says is £250 ( which it may be) but where does THAT price come from???

Please dont think im singling Pete , im not!!!! Pete is a good mate and a very FAIR sellar, im just using his quote as an example!!

Many sellers on here quote prices and always quote The JM guide as not being accurate, it really interest me who starts these priceses where do they come from ORIGINALLY!!!!

People will quote DEMAND or DeMAND FALLING but i dont think thats good enough!!

Who really SETS the prices!!?????

Id love to know being a 7 day week 24/7 collector!!

Probably been discussed before but id love a current up date

Thanks for reading this

Nige B

Edited December 23, 2009 by Torchboy

[Mace]

Who really SETS the prices!!?????

The buyer in the long run, cus as long as someone will pay more than some-one else then most people think that is it's real value.

[Pete S]

Hello

Somebody on the record wants needs a copy of ,,,

CHANGE YOUR WAYS-- WILLIE KENDICKS - RCA

Well respected collector and recorded seller Pete Smith replyed with a post,,,,,

" Have you seen the prices people ask for this record? Up to £400. Real value is £250 for a WD and £400 for an issue. IT's not as if it's rare".

Which beggers the question who REALLY does decide the price on the records we buy??

The real value Pete says is £250 ( which it may be) but where does THAT price come from???

Please dont think im singling Pete , im not!!!! Pete is a good mate and a very FAIR sellar, im just using his quote as an example!!

Many sellers on here quote prices and always quote The JM guide as not being accurate, it really interest me who starts these priceses where do they come from ORIGINALLY!!!!

People will quote DEMAND or DeMAND FALLING but i dont think thats good enough!!

Who really SETS the prices!!?????

Id love to know being a 7 day week 24/7 collector!!

Probably been discussed before but id love a current up date

Thanks for reading this

Nige B

Prices seem to be dictated by auctions and are then followed by sheep-like sellers. Example, a common record like The Determinations "Bing Bong", worth maybe £40, sells on an auction to some misguided unknowledgable person for £150 or £200, so the greedy sellers then put all of their copies up to £150 not realising it only went that high because two people wanted it - and they were probably the only two people in the world prepared to pay that price. Kiki Dee £300, helen Shapiro £200, it's a f*cking joke.

I'll stick in the real world and sell records for their real value, thats probably why I sell more than I get left with.

If people are daft enough to pay the greedy sellers prices then more fool them.

[Nige Brown]

I'll stick in the real world and sell records for their real value, thats probably why I sell more than I get left with.

If people are daft enough to pay the greedy sellers prices then more fool them.

Couldnt agree more wth you Mace,,,

BUT with all respect even you are doing it with your statement above ,,,, JUST WHO determines what you say is the REAL value!!

You say the Bing Bong track is £40 but how do you come to that conclusion? Is that just your opinion ?

Like Pete S you are a well known collector and seller of very high repute but my original question is deeper than people think!1

Just who sets the orginal price!???

Edited December 23, 2009 by Torchboy

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Prices seem to be dictated by auctions and are then followed by sheep-like sellers. Example, a common record like The Determinations "Bing Bong", worth maybe £40, sells on an auction to some misguided unknowledgable person for £150 or £200, so the greedy sellers then put all of their copies up to £150 not realising it only went that high because two people wanted it - and they were probably the only two people in the world prepared to pay that price.

That explains a lot - couldn't work out the sudden escalation on that, certainly can't be that rare as I seem to remember boxes of 'em around at one time?

[Kjw]

I don't know why people get so worked up about prices - if a seller puts a high price on a record they may strike lucky with a buyer coming along who really wants it and is prepared to pay a premium - there are a lot of collectors out there who can't be bothered to trawl the internet so they pay over the odds if a the record turns up. More often they'll get stuck with the record for a while.

There's no one on this site that sells consistently below anyone else - I put records on here and sometimes they are lower than other sellers prices - sometimes higher.

It's the seller that sets the prices for their own records with certain factors thrown in -

How much they paid for it

Whether they are undecided about letting it go

How much they need the money

[Pete S]

I don't know why people get so worked up about prices

Well I for one don't like seeing (possibly) gullible people being shafted, that's why.

[Little-stevie]

Yes indeed...

Plenty have been taken for a ride in the past and like to think that some on here can save them a few bob..

Not what some of the sellers will like... Some you win some you lose..

Edited December 23, 2009 by little-stevie

[Pete S]

I'll stick in the real world and sell records for their real value, thats probably why I sell more than I get left with.

If people are daft enough to pay the greedy sellers prices then more fool them.

Couldnt agree more wth you Mace,,,

BUT with all respect even you are doing it with your statement above ,,,, JUST WHO determines what you say is the REAL value!!

You say the Bing Bong track is £40 but how do you come to that conclusion? Is that just your opinion ?

Like Pete S you are a well known collector and seller of very high repute but my original question is deeper than people think!1

Just who sets the orginal price!???

Nige you're quoting me not Mace.

You can't ask a question like who sets the original price, it's determined by multiple factors, the most important being availability and demand. So a blue Ric Tic Detroit Emeralds record which is incredibly common and not in the slightest bit in demand will be priced very low because if you put £100 on it, it would be available forever.

When you've been doing the same job for a long time you get to know the ins and outs of it, I've seen and had enough copies of particular records to know if they are rare or not, remember, we all used to do this without the aid of a price guide until a few years ago.

[Tabs]

The seller is the only person who can dictate the price they want for a record.

If they sell it is another matter.

Same record, same condition but 2 different sellers.

One prices at a premium because they are not really fussed if it sells or not.

If they get lucky and sell it they make a few quid and possibly buy it back at a lower price else where.

The other seller is £50 lower than the 'premium' seller.

They don't like the record, needs cash to fund a want or what ever.

Which would you buy?

A no brainer - its the seller who decides prices.

Whether the price is justified, ethical or realistic is another debate.

[Kjw]

I don't think any of the sellers on here set out to shaft anyone - it's just that different people have a different opinion on what a record is worth

No one is in a position to determine a value on records - take John Manship for instance - he's brought out 5 price guides and there's plenty of people who disagree with them

[Pete S]

I don't think any of the sellers on here set out to shaft anyone - it's just that different people have a different opinion on what a record is worth

But sometimes that different opinion can be measured literally in a couple of hundred quid - so someone's got to be wrong surely?

[Kjw]

Don't know Pete

If people were asked to put a value on something like 'Lee Fields - Take Me Back' I guess the figures would be from £50 to something plain stupid

I think most people buying on here would know if they were being taken for a ride with prices and when someone has priced something way over the odds, someone has usually pointed it out

Ebay is a different scenario with people who just don't have any clear idea on values or who carry on bidding over the odds just to win an item - an example being the copy of 'Winfield Parker - I Wanna Be With You' that recently went for over $300

[Blunny]

........, remember, we all used to do this without the aid of a price guide until a few years ago.

Think you've stumbled onto something here Pete. What influence has the appearance of said price "guides" had on prices?

John Manship quotes his guide as representing values achieved through his auctions. Usually, tip-top mint condition records, being auctioned by a dealer who is respected by the majority of collectors. You would expect a reasonable premium on these particular prices. The problem of course, is whether that is then taken as "the price". I find it exptremely difficult to stomach VG+ or even EX+ records being quoted with prices based around these guides.

There's just been a very decent copy of Rose St John/Wonderettes - Mend My Broken Heart finished on Ebay. I've seen this 6 times in set sales in the last couple of months at varying prices and conditions between £125 and £175. The one on Ebay has gone for $115, approximately £75. I do hope auctions set the future values, as that for me is much more realistic.

[KevH]

But sometimes that different opinion can be measured literally in a couple of hundred quid - so someone's got to be wrong surely?

A record can be hot for a short time,if one is sat doing nothing in your box, and the price has gone up from 50 to 250,what you gonna do? Alot of theses type of sales are one-offs,one seller has one copy.

Take Lee Fields.After JM's auction (375),it was on here for 600 and sold.!!The price then fell to around 250,never again to reach that big price.

The prices are ultimately set by us with help from lists,auctions and whispers at niters .When you need a tune,you need a tune.Sense sometimes takes a back seat.

[Ian Seaman]

The seller is the only person who can dictate the price they want for a record.

If they sell it is another matter.

Same record, same condition but 2 different sellers.

One prices at a premium because they are not really fussed if it sells or not.

If they get lucky and sell it they make a few quid and possibly buy it back at a lower price else where.

The other seller is £50 lower than the 'premium' seller.

They don't like the record, needs cash to fund a want or what ever.

Which would you buy?

A no brainer - its the seller who decides prices.

Whether the price is justified, ethical or realistic is another debate.

Hmmmmm i would have thought the buyer decides the price !!, if the seller prices too high then the buyer won't buy....... simples !! if the seller then reduces the price to sell it then the buyer will still decide if it's too high (by not buying) or buying............simples !! The buyer will look around for a cheaper option 9.9 times out of 10 i would imagine, how many dealers can afford to leave unsold overpriced stock on a shelf ??

Even Mr Lidl of NS Pete Smith is forced to reduce stuff to shift it again by the buyer holding back !

Ebay is another ball game and we have all seen a vast difference in sales of cheap and rare records so i don't think it's fair to include ebay but if you did then again it would be the buyer who decides how much they will pay for an item !! many sellers on ebay who use high start prices or high BIN prices just get left with fee's !! and when they relist at lower prices to sell then who has forced them to do it ?? the buyer of course by keeping his wallet in his pocket !!

Or is it me being a tightwad in my old age !!!

Ian.

[Pete S]

Think you've stumbled onto something here Pete. What influence has the appearance of said price "guides" had on prices?

John Manship quotes his guide as representing values achieved through his auctions. Usually, tip-top mint condition records, being auctioned by a dealer who is respected by the majority of collectors. You would expect a reasonable premium on these particular prices. The problem of course, is whether that is then taken as "the price". I find it exptremely difficult to stomach VG+ or even EX+ records being quoted with prices based around these guides.

There's just been a very decent copy of Rose St John/Wonderettes - Mend My Broken Heart finished on Ebay. I've seen this 6 times in set sales in the last couple of months at varying prices and conditions between £125 and £175. The one on Ebay has gone for $115, approximately £75. I do hope auctions set the future values, as that for me is much more realistic.

Yes I bid 75 quid on that and was the second bidder, I was going to sell it at 100 or 125 if spotless.

[Dave Thorley]

Someone asked me recently to price some records for sale, as I hadn't ever had some of them and others not for awhile I had a look at finishing prices on several auction site, and what other dealers had these for. When I presented him a spread sheet with a range of prices they had sold recently and a recommended price to get them to move on, he said I had way under priced many of them.

So he took those back and did indeed sell them on this site for alot more than recent auctions.

So whats my point, no one knows everything.

• Some people spend many hours trawling the web and record boxes so they can always get the lowest price, and spend hours on here complaining about every element of the scene.
• Some are very busy and want other people to source records for them to buy and will pay what they want to pay
• Some do both
• Some people go to the states to find stuff, go to shity places, have guns pointed at them to bring back those elusive tunes for everyone to enjoy.
• Some sit at home don't want to go to venues, listen to the politics, back biting, etc, just want to get the records they want and hear the music they love.

All of the above do what they do and have a right to, it's there lives. No one person can ever be totally the arbiter of pricing.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Dave Thorley

[Guest Matt Male]

I agree Pete, no one likes to see other people getting ripped off or ripped off themselves, but at the end of the day rare 45s like any other collectables require a degree of research and shopping around to get the best price. There are plenty of people not prepared to do the leg work and have the money to pay top dollar, that's their problem (or not if they can afford it). I suppose the problem for the rest of us is that that kind of behaviour can push prices up.

I don't begrudge sellers trying to get the highest price they can, we've all got to make a living, but i'm not sure how i feel about sellers knowing a record is worth half what an ignorant buyer is prepared to pay for it. Is it a case of 'buyer beware' or the down to the personal morality of the seller?

[Tabs]

No the seller decides the price.

You can negotiate all you want but if the seller doesn't want to sell then thats that.

He has the goods you want to purchase and he decides what he will sell them at.

You as a buyer decide what you will buy them at.

If you agree then the deal is done.

If you disagree the seller still has the goods and still decides what he will ultimately let them go for.

The seller is in control, whether he decides to reduce his price, relist on Ebay or whatever.

As long as he retains the product he will decide what he will eventually sell something for.

Hmmmmm i would have thought the buyer decides the price !!, if the seller prices too high then the buyer won't buy....... simples !! if the seller then reduces the price to sell it then the buyer will still decide if it's too high (by not buying) or buying............simples !! The buyer will look around for a cheaper option 9.9 times out of 10 i would imagine, how many dealers can afford to leave unsold overpriced stock on a shelf ??

Even Mr Lidl of NS Pete Smith is forced to reduce stuff to shift it again by the buyer holding back !

Ebay is another ball game and we have all seen a vast difference in sales of cheap and rare records so i don't think it's fair to include ebay but if you did then again it would be the buyer who decides how much they will pay for an item !! many sellers on ebay who use high start prices or high BIN prices just get left with fee's !! and when they relist at lower prices to sell then who has forced them to do it ?? the buyer of course by keeping his wallet in his pocket !!

Or is it me being a tightwad in my old age !!!

Ian.

[Sean Hampsey]

The price is not set by Buyer or Seller.

Its a Mutually agreed price that concludes in a sale:

a) One that the seller is prepared to Sell at.

b ) One that the buyer is prepared to Buy at.

Without both participants agreeing the transaction there is no 'sale' and therefore no 'sale price'.

Inevitably this fluctuates amongst different participants on both sides.

Sean

Edited December 23, 2009 by Sean Hampsey

[Dave Thorley]

The price is not set by Buyer or Seller.

Its a Mutually agreed price that concludes in a sale:

a) One that the seller is prepared to Sell at.

b ) One that the buyer is prepared to Buy at.

Without both participants agreeing the transaction there is no 'sale' and therefore no 'sale price'.

Inevitably this fluctuates amongst different participants on both sides.

Sean

Hi Sean

First chapter of any sales manual.

Dave

[Sean Hampsey]

Hi Sean

First chapter of any sales manual.

Dave

Dead right Dave.

The Golden Rule in any marketplace.

Rare Soul records are no different to anything else, that we buy or sell.

It always takes two to tango!

Sean

[Guest Matt Male]

Inevitably this fluctuates amongst different participants on both sides.

I reckon this is the crux of the issue (and the problem maybe) different buyers have different funds and some can and are prepared to pay over the odds for those wants, as seen on John's auctions regularly. Sellers realise this and put prices up accordingly trying to catch these extravagent buyers, meanwhile the rest of us have to scrabble around looking for a bargain. Not saying it's right or wrong but it accounts for the wild variations in prices seen regularly. e.g. Little Dooley - She's So Fine $175 from Craig Moerer $246.99 from Manships. Both mint minus. I bet they both sell though.

[NEV]

Prices seem to be dictated by auctions and are then followed by sheep-like sellers. Example, a common record like The Determinations "Bing Bong", worth maybe £40, sells on an auction to some misguided unknowledgable person for £150 or £200, so the greedy sellers then put all of their copies up to £150 not realising it only went that high because two people wanted it - and they were probably the only two people in the world prepared to pay that price. Kiki Dee £300, helen Shapiro £200, it's a f*cking joke.

I'll stick in the real world and sell records for their real value, thats probably why I sell more than I get left with.

If people are daft enough to pay the greedy sellers prices then more fool them.

Other angle on it Pete is this (hypothetical)... i have a rare record and someone want's it ....just as in everyday life ...everybody has a price that they gonna succumb to(we are not talking selling arse by the way )

If the right price is on the table ,then sometimes it's too tempting so i sell .....That man tells his mates he's just bought this for that much......word get's round ,someone say's i've got one of them and i'd let mine go for that ........hey presto ,we have a new starting price

I just don't get why people pay lots for ANN SEXTON or SAM FLETCHER ..they're readliy available ..almost unlimited supply chain of em

[Guest Matt Male]

I just don't get why people pay lots for ANN SEXTON or SAM FLETCHER ..they're readliy available ..almost unlimited supply chain of em

Because popularity and quality count as much as rarity sometimes. Popularity + rarity + quality is the magic formula.

[NEV]

I don't think any of the sellers on here set out to shaft anyone - it's just that different people have a different opinion on what a record is worth

No one is in a position to determine a value on records - take John Manship for instance - he's brought out 5 price guides and there's plenty of people who disagree with them

Good to see your take on it Kev

Not wishing to knock you here...but you put things in want's (not usual practice for a dealer ,so i'll asume it's for your own collection) and state a price ,your willing to pay.

People respond to your want by telling you "your kidding ,it's worth 4 times more"

Then when you put a sales list up ......4 times more than your original estimate

So can i ask ..are you going from guides in wants and not in sales??

Don't take it personal cos your not alone ,plenty do it

Everyone who sells records ..usually want's more than he payed for em ,so inevitibly the price get's hiked from seller to seller.

EXAMPLE :- You sold me a copy of Continental showstoppers for £175 ...i sold it for £200 ,GUILTY AS CHARGED

Interestingly enough ....not bought anything off Pete for a while ,but i never ,ever made a profit off anything i bought from you

[Ged Parker]

I just don't get why people pay lots for ANN SEXTON or SAM FLETCHER ..they're readliy available ..almost unlimited supply chain of em

I'll have an Impel copy of Ann Sexton please Nev. Mine has a damaged lable

[NEV]

I'll have an Impel copy of Ann Sexton please Nev. Mine has a damaged lable

Ged ...i once saw one go through ebay for peanuts and sadly it happened while i was out

Sods law!

Note to myself ..must stop stockpiling watched items on ebay .....missed a copy of Illusions -just an illusion ,that did'nt sell at $9.99 the other night

Edited December 23, 2009 by NEV

[Ian Dewhirst]

I don't think any of the sellers on here set out to shaft anyone - it's just that different people have a different opinion on what a record is worth

No one is in a position to determine a value on records - take John Manship for instance - he's brought out 5 price guides and there's plenty of people who disagree with them

Too true. As an example Tim Brown routinely values his own collection pieces above his own price guide on the basis that even if a record is listed in his own price guide @ a particular price it doesn't mean that he'd sell his own copy for that price. I had a big hassle earlier this year selling a record for his minimum price of £550 when it was listed in his own guide for £75! He maintained that it didn't matter what the price was in his guide but that for him to sell his own copy £550 was the mimimum he wanted. He was also of the opinion that there are some very rare records which aren't in demand and so have a low price in the guides (especially Deep Soul stuff). However, he personally rated the rarity of certain records way above his own guides on the basis that he didn't want to spend 10 years finding another copy!

I can believe that. I've sold records for mimimal amounts because there was no demand at the time and then never, ever seen them again in my life. Si Hightower being a good example........

Another question could be what would you price a great total unknown at? £10? £100? £1000? £10000?

Ian D

[Ged Parker]

Ged ...i once saw one go through ebay for peanuts and sadly it happened while i was out:(

Sods law!

Note to myself ..must stop stockpiling watched items on ebay .....missed a copy of Illusions -just an illusion ,that did'nt sell at $9.99 the other night

Snipe em Nev. Never miss something I want. Rarely win them but never miss placing a bid.

That's because I'm a buyer trying to set the price. Trouble is there are other buyers too

[NEV]

Snipe em Nev. Never miss something I want. Rarely win them but never miss placing a bid.

That's because I'm a buyer trying to set the price. Trouble is there are other buyers too

Oh don't worry Ged ..im a sniper but the sniper was zoned in to a very special item ....that i think may have upset a few big hitters this week

[Kjw]

Good to see your take on it Kev

Not wishing to knock you here...but you put things in want's (not usual practice for a dealer ,so i'll asume it's for your own collection) and state a price ,your willing to pay.

People respond to your want by telling you "your kidding ,it's worth 4 times more"

Then when you put a sales list up ......4 times more than your original estimate

So can i ask ..are you going from guides in wants and not in sales??

Don't take it personal cos your not alone ,plenty do it

Everyone who sells records ..usually want's more than he payed for em ,so inevitibly the price get's hiked from seller to seller.

EXAMPLE :- You sold me a copy of Continental showstoppers for £175 ...i sold it for £200 ,GUILTY AS CHARGED

Interestingly enough ....not bought anything off Pete for a while ,but i never ,ever made a profit off anything i bought from you

Hi Nev

How are you. Haven't put anything in 'wants' for a long time now although I put a thread in the 'trades' section to try and move some stuff I've had for a long time or things that I have as multiple copies in order to pick up some items that I'd consider easier to sell. I don't really 'collect' as such (done that 3 times over) but if I pick up something I really like I'll hold on to it for a while.

In your post I think you're referring to a particular record - 'Freddie Empire' which I'd never picked before in all the years I've been buying records so took the value from one of the Manship guides which was about £40. Straightaway I got e-mails telling me it was worth anything from £150 to £250 and then I picked a copy up on here. About 2 or 3 weeks later I got another from a different source so after spending years looking for it I suddenly had 2 of them.

I guess I'm the same as most people on here when valuing records - a mixture of what the price guides say, what I see other people sell for and generally what I know through years of buying records.

I could tell you a story about the 'Continental Showstoppers' I sold you but I don't want to spoil your day

[NEV]

No probs Kev ..im a big boy and at the end of the day it never cost me a penny,which reminds me of when i bought a record off a guy on here (nice bloke too) ,I paid him £200 for a certain record and in conversation he truthfully told me ,he'd just picked it up from the states for $10

But at £200 it was less than the going rate at the time so i was happy ,but not as happy as him

P.s Bob&gene -sailboat ,went for £250

[Kjw]

ame='kjw' date='23 December 2009 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1261583299' post='1221889']

No probs Kev ..im a big boy and at the end of the day it never cost me a penny,which reminds me of when i bought a record off a guy on here (nice bloke too) ,I paid him £200 for a certain record and in conversation he truthfully told me ,he'd just picked it up from the states for $10

But at £200 it was less than the going rate at the time so i was happy ,but not as happy as him

P.s Bob&gene -sailboat ,went for £250

Nev, I guess we've all had our good buys and not so good buys over the years

Have a good Xmas

Kev

[boba]

Ged ...i once saw one go through ebay for peanuts and sadly it happened while i was out

Sods law!

Note to myself ..must stop stockpiling watched items on ebay .....missed a copy of Illusions -just an illusion ,that did'nt sell at $9.99 the other night

no you didn't, it was ended early

[NEV]

no you didn't, it was ended early

That's a relief Bob ,it was ,as you know Lew Stanley's ,so it did have me wonderin

Not got the spare cash to be honest but a copy of illusions for $10 ,well it'd be rude not too

Seasons greetings Bob

[Dave Thorley]

I think Lew ends a fair few of his auctions early if their not going the way he likes, then they appear latter from him at a price he would like to see

[NEV]

I think Lew ends a fair few of his auctions early if their not going the way he likes, then they appear latter from him at a price he would like to see

Agree Dave...not a case of someone asking him to end early ,more like Lew does't give anything away for nowt !

He has some great records on his list, but his tactics are vey dubious at times

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

people pay for a record as much as they are prepared to pay for it so the value can be done by that way and means. It happens in any genre like say Donny Osmond who did a version of You've got me Dangling on a string it's worth what 50p but if in some time the record was selling for a little more and a copy sold day for £30 and maybe another the price would be upped and the current new price tagged and record collector may well add it to there price guide

I do think that with ebay and so on some people can slap a high price on records that are noy really worth it like £5 or so for re-issued of Jackie Wilson records in he 80's

Plus if i was to sell any records i would at leas try and use a price guide to see price first if included then sell a little less. don't like to rip people off and can only sell for more of the price if for it's on ebay and starts off at say £10 but goes for a lot more

[Anais nin Carms]

It's all about how much the buyer wants the record and how much torture they are willing to apply to get it

eeeeeem still working on Thelma think we may have to go pasteeeeeeeeel on this one

lollo xxx

Seriously I guess JM detrmines a sort of price guide , then there is the demand factor and then there is Greed.

At the end of the day you pays your money and make your choice.

For example 3 little pigs look how silly that went. Didn't go for 150 at one point because of demand ? Sister James was another one that comes to mind.

And look at my top want Brenda Jones I don't stand a cat in hells chance of getting one within the price I think is fair because every man his dog wants one now.

[Guest Shane]

I'm one of those types that spends time in unsavory places in the U.S. looking for gems to sell. I have a simple formula when it comes to selling: unless I am certain of a record's resale value, don't pay much for it, and when I do sell a record, start an ebay auction for the very low sum of $9.99. Where it goes, is where it goes. Let the bidders decide what it is worth.

I don't feel bad about selling a record after the auction is over, because I know ebay gives me a venue where a wide range of top collectors all over the world bid on my record, should they desire to do so. I can get an idea by looking at past internet auctions for the same record, but I've found the market changes so wildly sometimes that it is hard to gauge. Sometimes I am surprised at how high something went. Other times, I'm surprised by how low something went... but it all evens out in the end.

The way I see it, this is much better than selling high dollar records through my brick and mortar store. Lower priced common records sell well at the shop, but obscure high end records with a limited local market do best when they are offered worldwide. At the brick and mortar store, I'm at the mercy of some guy who is out to whine about every little aspect of the record, and beat me down on my price. Online, all the top collectors in the world can "battle" over my record. There is no whining... just a bidding war. And price-wise, where it goes, is where it goes.

[NEV]

It's all about how much the buyer wants the record and how much torture they are willing to apply to get it

eeeeeem still working on Thelma think we may have to go pasteeeeeeeeel on this one

lollo xxx

Seriously I guess JM detrmines a sort of price guide , then there is the demand factor and then there is Greed.

At the end of the day you pays your money and make your choice.

For example 3 little pigs look how silly that went. Didn't go for 150 at one point because of demand ? Sister James was another one that comes to mind.

And look at my top want Brenda Jones I don't stand a cat in hells chance of getting one within the price I think is fair because every man his dog wants one now.

Hi Carms

Really don't understand the use of the word Greed in terms of record selling??

If a record goes on auction and is bid upto £150 ,doe's anyone blame the seller ?? does anyone blame joe bloggs, who saw the auction and decided at that price,he'd be happy to sell his copy??

I heard a rumour that a certain celebrity bought the FRANK WILSON 45 ...probably untrue ,and i don't really care ...but if it were the case ,the same man is a multi millionaire ,so £25000 is peanut's to him.....but does that make Kenny Burrell a greedy man for selling it at £10000 more than he paid?

NOBODY FORCES ANYONE TO PAY THE PRICE!

Its like saying i paid £100,000 for my house in 2000 and im selling it at £200000 next yr .......if it sells, it sells ,if it does'nt then it's too expensive!

I for one do not expect soulsource members to sell thing's to me cheap just because im a fellow member .

I personally think the plus of buying off here is ..trust ...honesty ,good communication and in the worst case ..a no quibble refund if i'm not happy.

P.s

sorry but Brenda went overseas, to a fellow sourcer, for more than the price you were happy to pay

[Ernie Andrews]

Im sorry but there are dubious people on here.

Example:

Person pms me and asks if a record I had last year on here was available I said yes He offers me an amount for it and goes on about its not that rare and not really in demand on the scene!(But knows full well that its popular in his area and in demand- but not up our way) he then sells it a few weeks later for 4 times the amount because of its popularity. Is that called insider dealing! or he was just being untruthful about the circumstance of popualrity! therefore affecting the price?

[NEV]

Im sorry but there are dubious people on here.

Example:

Person pms me and asks if a record I had last year on here was available I said yes He offers me an amount for it and goes on about its not that rare and not really in demand on the scene!(But knows full well that its popular in his area and in demand- but not up our way) he then sells it a few weeks later for 4 times the amount because of its popularity. Is that called insider dealing! or he was just being untruthful about the circumstance of popualrity! therefore affecting the price?

Sorry Steve ..but you are a very honest chap,of that i can vouch form previous dealing's and your sales prices. .

but there are plenty of people on here who would use a person's lack of upto date knowledge to make a small profit....done it myself ..but spotting a bargain is'nt ripping someone off ?

If you list a record at a price you are happy to sell and someone offer's the price ..then sells it on.....i don't see a problem .

Shrewd move and no different to people offering a price for a collection...just to sell on .

Hope you are well and thing's are all calm in Aberdeen

[Anais nin Carms]

Im sorry but there are dubious people on here.

Example:

Person pms me and asks if a record I had last year on here was available I said yes He offers me an amount for it and goes on about its not that rare and not really in demand on the scene!(But knows full well that its popular in his area and in demand- but not up our way) he then sells it a few weeks later for 4 times the amount because of its popularity. Is that called insider dealing! or he was just being untruthful about the circumstance of popualrity! therefore affecting the price?

Now thats a good example of greed , thanks Ernie

Nev my general remark wasn't aimed at you , now if you sold Brenda for 600.00 I would say you were greedy

We have to face the fact that there is an element of greed in all business , that's life you will always get your fagin types , thats just my opinion by the way.

Another example , find a great record in multiple copies drip feed one or two , get a big name to play it create demand hey presto you can sell the rest at a much higher price . My point is if you double your investment is that reasonable if you treble your investment is that still reasonable ? at what point do you say eeeem thats greedy ?

[dthedrug]

Hello

Somebody on the record wants needs a copy of ,,,

CHANGE YOUR WAYS-- WILLIE KENDICKS - RCA

Well respected collector and recorded seller Pete Smith replied with a post,,,,,

" Have you seen the prices people ask for this record? Up to £400. Real value is £250 for a WD and £400 for an issue. IT's not as if it's rare".

Which beggars the question who REALLY does decide the price on the records we buy??

The real value Pete says is £250 ( which it may be) but where does THAT price come from???

Please dont think im singling Pete , im not!!!! Pete is a good mate and a very FAIR sellar, im just using his quote as an example!!

Many sellers on here quote prices and always quote The JM guide as not being accurate, it really interest me who starts these processes where do they come from ORIGINALLY!!!!

People will quote DEMAND or DeMAND FALLING but i dont think that's good enough!!

Who really SETS the prices!!?????

Id love to know being a 7 day week 24/7 collector!!

Probably been discussed before but id love a current up date

Thanks for reading this

Nigeb

Hi I have just Looked at Johnny Manships Auction latest and as I have all the UK stuff apart from that Jelly Beans thing on PYE that does not do it for me as my Eskee copy is at home snuggled up to his mates, if i found it junking it would be different don't you agree? Any way I have not spent more than £50 on the others and that £50 was for 1 record all the others were cheaper..now you got to take on board time & rarity factors and include them into equation HAPPY NEW YEAR DAVE KIL

[dthedrug]

Hello

Somebody on the record wants needs a copy of ,,,

CHANGE YOUR WAYS-- WILLIE KENDICKS - RCA

Well respected collector and recorded seller Pete Smith replyed with a post,,,,,

" Have you seen the prices people ask for this record? Up to £400. Real value is £250 for a WD and £400 for an issue. IT's not as if it's rare".

Which beggers the question who REALLY does decide the price on the records we buy??

The real value Pete says is £250 ( which it may be) but where does THAT price come from???

Please dont think im singling Pete , im not!!!! Pete is a good mate and a very FAIR sellar, im just using his quote as an example!!

Many sellers on here quote prices and always quote The JM guide as not being accurate, it really interest me who starts these priceses where do they come from ORIGINALLY!!!!

People will quote DEMAND or DeMAND FALLING but i dont think thats good enough!!

Who really SETS the prices!!?????

Id love to know being a 7 day week 24/7 collector!!

Probably been discussed before but id love a current up date

Thanks for reading this

Nige B

[Ljblanken]

you all are looking at buyers and sellers - and some magical mechanism in between them which determines the price of a good, but are having trouble nailing it down. that is why adam smith called it the 'invisible hand'!

the real interesting thing (IMO) is the notion of arbitrage. i grew up in the midwest (cincinnati) and used to be able to buy records super cheap - even though many of the store owners KNEW the records were considered rare and collectable somewhere (like New York, or Tokyo, or the north of England), there was no market for it in cincinnati. you could buy stuff (like i would buy old country on king records - delmore brothers, york brothers, etc) and resell it when you traveled. now, with the internet, 99% of those deals are gone, because the midwestern record store-owner knows he can deal with a global market (sell directly to collectors in Tokyo, etc).

the interesting thing about you guys (big NS collectors) is that you, as individuals or a small group, can actually alter the market by influencing what DJs play or what folks consider hot. very interesting!

i have a friend who is an economist, who would love to study this!

[Guest Brett F]

Nowadays people always quote Manships guide, because it is just that... a guide, i recently posted a want up on this forum and i listed the current JM guide price (£30), my post got swamped by people telling me that was far too cheap it was 3 times as much and not easy to find blah, blah...........I knew its true worth and i know (Jesus this one killed me) that the guide is just a guide. Anyway i got the record for a price i was happy with , within 3 days of putting the want up..................

Brett

Edited January 2, 2010 by Brett F