Guest posstot Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 .......before they were put onto vinyl...before some whizzhead knobhead from England claimed it as if it were theres. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!
Dave Thorley Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 .......before they were put onto vinyl...before some whizzhead knobhead from England claimed it as if it were theres. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!! I think he maybe refering to the who discovered what tread. Clearly believes that the record should have laid in obscurity and to this day we would not know the names of many of these great artists, producers and arrangers he so clearly cares so much about.
ImberBoy Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Oh I see, I'm not too sure if any English DJ's actually claimed any particular credit for production or artistic pen? I do know that there were dumpsters full of deleted, discarded unfit for release records that found life over here................... Unless you know some thing we don't? Our "championing" of lost courses is well documented. We do have a few DJ's with over inflated egos' but as to claiming credit before they were put onto vinyl, I can't think of one? On the whole I think our scenes DJ's have done a top job and they should rightly feel proud for their dedication and for serving up quality rare soul.
Guest posstot Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 What I'm trying to say, is, I see a lot of D.J's claiming who played the record first at a certain venue, Bringing it to the masses for appreciation. This is how i learnt a lot of the music, And why my love of this music exists to an extent. But to openly message shoulders about being the person who "DISCOVERED" a Record..as if making it there's by definition seems very self gratificating. The records in question were made by people in the first place...It's there recording, written, produced, performed and in this musics genre probably lived by them first. To every one D.j there are 1,000's of collectors, who, possibly, already knew of the record and passed it on to a D.J to play. For any lover of soul/RnB to hear a record for the first time is, in a sense a dicovery.....But certainly doesn't mean it belongs to them. I have records that people haven't heard, every person on here knows a record/song that everybody else doesn't. But for me to take credit for a song, that i played first, or owned first would be wrong....As my mate played it to me first...he heard it on a U.S radio show....that d.j was sent it by the record company....that record company released it for the performers....those performers emerced together to rejoice in music and share what they could achieve......Utimately To make money to get out of the shit they were living in. If there is to be a discovery, It's that split second in the mind of the writer/s of a song..shared with the people who can help bring it to fruition. What my discontent is aimed at is the typically British invention Discovery. I digress....When the British Turn up on some far flung Island in there big Sail boat...row assure and stab their sword into the white sand and claim it to be there discovery......Let's not forget who hoist the sail.....and let's not forget the natives standing on the hill top saying to each other" Who the fucks that on our beach?" I Meant to say, that about the "few" Imber boy mentioned. Reading some, not all, of the posts on the"other thread", I got the feeling one or two of them were actually under the desk,IN HAND shall we say. My original post,admittedly, was a little abrupt...this reaction was fueled by the image of the afore mentioned desk incident. And has no baring as a generalisation onto one and all on the scene...but to a select few who openly cooo about there discoverys as if they were it's creator. If my opinion should have been kept private, I'm very sorry. That's how i fealt. Begs the question, what came first the Dancer or the D.J. that's what im talking about!
ImberBoy Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 What I'm trying to say, is, I see a lot of D.J's claiming who played the record first at a certain venue, Bringing it to the masses for appreciation. This is how i learnt a lot of the music, And why my love of this music exists to an extent. But to openly message shoulders about being the person who "DISCOVERED" a Record..as if making it there's by definition seems very self gratificating. The records in question were made by people in the first place...It's there recording, written, produced, performed and in this musics genre probably lived by them first. To every one D.j there are 1,000's of collectors, who, possibly, already knew of the record and passed it on to a D.J to play. For any lover of soul/RnB to hear a record for the first time is, in a sense a dicovery.....But certainly doesn't mean it belongs to them. I have records that people haven't heard, every person on here knows a record/song that everybody else doesn't. But for me to take credit for a song, that i played first, or owned first would be wrong....As my mate played it to me first...he heard it on a U.S radio show....that d.j was sent it by the record company....that record company released it for the performers....those performers emerced together to rejoice in music and share what they could achieve......Utimately To make money to get out of the shit they were living in. If there is to be a discovery, It's that split second in the mind of the writer/s of a song..shared with the people who can help bring it to fruition. What my discontent is aimed at is the typically British invention Discovery. I digress....When the British Turn up on some far flung Island in there big Sail boat...row assure and stab their sword into the white sand and claim it to be there discovery......Let's not forget who hoist the sail.....and let's not forget the natives standing on the hill top saying to each other" Who the fucks that on our beach?" I Meant to say, that about the "few" Imber boy mentioned. Reading some, not all, of the posts on the"other thread", I got the feeling one or two of them were actually under the desk,IN HAND shall we say. My original post,admittedly, was a little abrupt...this reaction was fueled by the image of the afore mentioned desk incident. And has no baring as a generalisation onto one and all on the scene...but to a select few who openly cooo about there discoverys as if they were it's creator. If my opinion should have been kept private, I'm very sorry. That's how i fealt. Begs the question, what came first the Dancer or the D.J. that's what im talking about! Yup the natives were also rolling around in some black sticky yucky stuff called oil, discovering that muck was easy and full credit to em, I kinda give my applause to the man who discovered that same black stuff, when refined, would drive the western world. An idea is easy, the development is the hard part. I by no means want to build any DJ up to some thing they're not but finding unheard records aint particularly hard, introducing them to the dancing public is not just a matter of shouting "Oi, have ya heard this"!
Ady Croasdell Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 The discovering of a record varies in importance hugely. in some cases it would be inevitable that the record would be played and appreciated so the discoverer should just get a nod of approval. In other cases it may be an unusual sound that takes a hell of a lot of breaking as its style of soul hasn't really been played before, in that case the DJ that picked it and stuck with it deserves a lot of kudos. Similarly if the record collector/DJ had to risk his health in a rough neighbourhood to acquire a super-rare record that might otherwise have eventually got destroyed then he has done a major service to the music and the fans. Or it might have taken great diplomatic skills to persuade the owner to part with the discs so that they became available to the general soul public. Lots of scenarios (I'm sure there are many others) and the DJ's dealer's or collector's back slapping should vary according to the job done. But obviously the overwhelming amount of kudos goes to the artists, writers, producers, arrangers and label owners.
Baz Atkinson Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Yep do totally agree with Ady a point also -the djs who mainly featured on the other threads were smack in the middle of it at a certain point in the british soul scenes history-when America to a certain extent particulary the early seventies was "ripe for the picking". Perhaps there should be given some kudos for pushing stuff which when you look at the evolution of the scene -set the tone for what was to come at Stafford and beyond!!! Im a bit like Jock in the respect that Butch never seems to get the credit he so rightly deserves -for still pushing the boundries in a harder climate -breaking a track like say "THE JUST BROTHERS" was not easy -etc alot of this is about timing and sheer perseveance and also "the time in history" hand on heart how many current DJS are really breaking ground AT THE MOMENT ? Reason been the turnover of records has nion ceased and although there are litterally thoushands upon thousands of soul records rare and not so rare not many have the essential ingretianats as say a Don Parker or a joe Mathnews which when i first heard at the casino thought as a stand out northern soul record this will never be surpassed!!! Also the emphasis on the 100mph sound aint doing the quality argument much good either because alot of the stuff is barely average imo and perhaps a shift to different tempos may get afew more purists out more lol? As a outsider looking in [particulary if your a American etc looking to throW stones at the perculiar issue of ownership then YES OFCOURSE ITS THE WRITERS -ARTISTES THAT SHOULD BE GIVEN THE CREDIT ITS THEIR MUSIC -BUT ITS OUR SCENE AND IN MANY ISTANCES WE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING MANY ACTS OVER FROM THE USA AND GIVING THEM A COMMUNITY TO EXPRESS THIER INCREDIBLE TALENT IN EDWIN STARR BEEN A GREAT EXAMPLE. BAZ A The discovering of a record varies in importance hugely. in some cases it would be inevitable that the record would be played and appreciated so the discoverer should just get a nod of approval. In other cases it may be an unusual sound that takes a hell of a lot of breaking as its style of soul hasn't really been played before, in that case the DJ that picked it and stuck with it deserves a lot of kudos. Similarly if the record collector/DJ had to risk his health in a rough neighbourhood to acquire a super-rare record that might otherwise have eventually got destroyed then he has done a major service to the music and the fans. Or it might have taken great diplomatic skills to persuade the owner to part with the discs so that they became available to the general soul public. Lots of scenarios (I'm sure there are many others) and the DJ's dealer's or collector's back slapping should vary according to the job done. But obviously the overwhelming amount of kudos goes to the artists, writers, producers, arrangers and label owners.
KevH Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 "Discovering" means for the purposes of the scene.First playing etc can be argued about admittedly.These terms are only in reference to our scene....not like penicillin or owt...........................
Guest Dave Turner Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) As a outsider looking in [particulary if your a American etc looking to throW stones at the perculiar issue of ownership then YES OFCOURSE ITS THE WRITERS -ARTISTES THAT SHOULD BE GIVEN THE CREDIT ITS THEIR MUSIC - BUT ITS OUR SCENE AND IN MANY ISTANCES WE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING MANY ACTS OVER FROM THE USA AND GIVING THEM A COMMUNITY TO EXPRESS THIER INCREDIBLE TALENT IN EDWIN STARR BEEN A GREAT EXAMPLE. BAZ Edwin nails that very point with his comment at 1.28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_PiLl3Ql3g Edited December 12, 2009 by Dave Turner
Ian Dewhirst Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I think you're taking it all a little too righteously Posstot. Finding obscure Soul records was the foundation of the scene and it's always been a fundamental part of Northern Soul. Without those DJ's and collectors who started the scene we wouldn't be reading this forum now. I don't see that thread as point-scoring and I don't know what you mean by "under the desk, IN HAND shall we say". Under the desk? In hand? Sounds like a schoolboy perversion to me. I didn't know who discovered Jerry Williams but I do now and I LOVE stories like that and so do most of the forum judging by the popularity of the thread. Also it's really interesting to me to know where records were found, whether in the U.K., U.S. or elsewhere. I don't give a shit who found what really - I just like the stories. Discovering records is a pretty subjective thing anyway. Two of the most prolific 'discovers' of Northern Soul are persona non grata on here anyway so it didn't do them much good did it? All in all it's nice to have a positive thread for a change IMO. There was so much negativity going on at one stage that it was getting painful. We should celebrate this great music and salute those who keep digging up stuff. Most of the artists I've had the pleasure of meeting over the years have been knocked out and very grateful to the Northern scene. After all, it was the only scene in the world that appreciated their music and went to the trouble of finding it 'cos everyone else managed to miss it didn't they? Loosen up mate. It's Christmas and a time of goodwill to all men........ Ian D
Guest WPaulVanDyk Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 The last bit Ian said about artists and there songs played out on the scene is spot on and love it. but seemed as if this thread was a bit of confusion at first
Ady Croasdell Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 2 banned? Who's the second. Answer cryptically of course.
Guest Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 What I'm trying to say, is, I see a lot of D.J's claiming who played the record first at a certain venue, Bringing it to the masses for appreciation. This is how i learnt a lot of the music, And why my love of this music exists to an extent. But to openly message shoulders about being the person who "DISCOVERED" a Record. Now this is something I must do , the next time I see a DJ who brought a particular record to the attention of the scene : example : " Now then Colin - sit down here , I want to show my thanks for Bernie Williams with a quick rub " ....... Malc Burton
Guest Dante Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 2 banned? Who's the second. Answer cryptically of course. He might be referring to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS branch who acted in Morocco, France and England?
Guest posstot Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S WRONG TO PUT A NAME TO A RECORD, OF THE PERSON WHO PLAYED IT FIRST...AND /OR CONTINUALLY PLAY IT AS IT'S A record deserving of a push. What i was trying to say was, the open self gratification that was occurring in SOME instances within the thread was becoming over baring. That it doesn't take just one man/woman to break a record there is always some corner that probably have known or actually brought it to light before the one person stands on the hill shouting look what i've got...I am the reason "northern soul" exists. I have peers...Including Roger banks....Bob Burton...Keith Minshull...Brian Rae, Nashee, Ted (stonecold) Couldstone, Bob Morris, Tim Brown, Richard Searling, Pat Brady, Guy Hennigan, Dave Evison ,Ste Longy and one chap who i vexxed enough for a response Ady. I learnt a hell of a lot off Ady's Kent l.p's and the info which was added to each album...also the diversity of music taste i have now is down mainly to Ady and Roger Banks too. So, i know the idiology Behind the "scene", and own records myself that i think are better in a lot of instances, than some that have already been broke! I do sometimes get the chance to play them out for people to enjoy. Yet i am very conscious, that i am not the records saviour, that it has been in the playlists of inumerous "D.J's" before...that even if the super rarities hadn't been found there would still be enough of the "common people", "Common records" for there to be an active scene..a shared passion. So i wouldn't neccessarily say i was uptight and need to relax....about things....that's what i am normally am. My point, i reitorate, is while the select few Pat each other on the back as if it were they who created Soul music.....lets not forget the foot soldiers who's love for the music alone helped create this scene!! As forTHE OIL INDUSTRY, DON'T GET ME STARTED
Chalky Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 don't read the topic then, plenty enjoying the topic without any of the hassle/shite you get on other topics.
Guest posstot Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 I think you're taking it all a little too righteously Posstot. Finding obscure Soul records was the foundation of the scene and it's always been a fundamental part of Northern Soul. Without those DJ's and collectors who started the scene we wouldn't be reading this forum now. I don't see that thread as point-scoring and I don't know what you mean by "under the desk, IN HAND shall we say". Under the desk? In hand? Sounds like a schoolboy perversion to me. I didn't know who discovered Jerry Williams but I do now and I LOVE stories like that and so do most of the forum judging by the popularity of the thread. Also it's really interesting to me to know where records were found, whether in the U.K., U.S. or elsewhere. I don't give a shit who found what really - I just like the stories. Discovering records is a pretty subjective thing anyway. Two of the most prolific 'discovers' of Northern Soul are persona non grata on here anyway so it didn't do them much good did it? All in all it's nice to have a positive thread for a change IMO. There was so much negativity going on at one stage that it was getting painful. We should celebrate this great music and salute those who keep digging up stuff. Most of the artists I've had the pleasure of meeting over the years have been knocked out and very grateful to the Northern scene. After all, it was the only scene in the world that appreciated their music and went to the trouble of finding it 'cos everyone else managed to miss it didn't they? Loosen up mate. It's Christmas and a time of goodwill to all men........ Ian D I am loose, and good will to all men isn't just for christmas . Let's not forget that black American music travelled Europe and beyond....It is not"the only scene in the world that appriciated there music" (let me just get that monkey off my back straight away) Go and speak to the Belgiumese, the Germanians and the Spanishicans, see if they think they had/have a part in the history of soul music. What about them. We aren't claiming something to be our own again are we Love and kisses and peace to all mankind Mike
Guest posstot Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 don't read the topic then, plenty enjoying the topic without any of the hassle/shite you get on other topics. I wanted to read the topic, and did. I enjoyed a lot of the stories talked about. I was vexxed by some of the comments i read on there, as they seemed as i said a little too, self gratifying. I will probably go and read on some more and instead of having an opinion and sharing it on the forum, which is what this site is about i shall shut up and leave people to wrongly assume that without them we wouldn't be here.
Ady Croasdell Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 He might be referring to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS branch who acted in Morocco, France and England? I wouldn't have thought he'd be banned as he's never been on here; stranger things have happened though.
Guest Dante Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 I wouldn't have thought he'd be banned as he's never been on here; stranger things have happened though. Well, Ian actually said persona non grata, not 'banned'. In that thread about him alot of people were still furious with him owing them money
Ian Dewhirst Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Well, Ian actually said persona non grata, not 'banned'. In that thread about him alot of people were still furious with him owing them money Correctomundo Dante. Well spotted. The last time S.S. appeared in person around Northern Soulers he almost got lynched and I ended up with a glass in my face! 'Persona Non Grata' was the most elegant way of putting it LOL... Ian D
Guest Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Correctomundo Dante. Well spotted. The last time S.S. appeared in person around Northern Soulers he almost got lynched and I ended up with a glass in my face! 'Persona Non Grata' was the most elegant way of putting it LOL... Ian D As well as nearly being lynched , he was very close to s**tting himself , and both would have happened if RS had not got him out of the HR and The Mecca ...... Malc Burton
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