It'S Just A Night Out, Is It?

[ImberBoy]

It's just a night out, is it?

Dancing in the Street

"It's just a night out", used to hear this a lot, especially from Polly in Manifesto usually after some one got hot under the collar from a nighter critique, but is it just a night out?

Has our Northernsoul Scene done anything to shape our society, has it influenced our thinking, has it altered any of our preconceptions?

I love the description of Northernsoul as being one of a desire to breakaway from the middle-of-the-road and the description of a small group refusing the spoon fed mainstream.

For me, and no doubt others, there is a very real and personal dent on our personalities, do we define the Northernsoul Scene, yes we do but how much of it defines us?

When I was a very young man the fact that I was going to Allnighters made some of my peer group view me in a certain way, yes some thought I was daft but others perceived me to have an air of the sinister, well certainly a whiff of distrust? Hard to explain but it added to my youthful stance and gave me an element of the mysterious, all good stuff for a rutting male who wasn't particularly tough or hip.

But what of our group in general, did our scene influence anything in society?

Young Northern men dancing on their own and dancing some incredible dances after midnight during a time when this was not quite the done thing to do?

I remember a couple of fights at the youth clubs between those who danced like devils and those who thought it a rather effeminate carry on.

Stepping away and turning your back, even scoffing at chart music put you in a minority and into the limelight.

Did our championing of black American music do anything towards the civil rights movement?

Motown and Stax are given their place in history, a British journalist once asked Martha Reeves (of Martha and the Vandellas) if she was a militant leader and if Dancing in the Street was a call to riot.

Soul fans in the North of England (best add the South here as well) where aware of Black Power, and the struggling Black Americans, yes so was every one else but not every one had an emotional connection and loved the music, do we love the artists yet dispose of any thought for their wellbeing?

Can we, do we just allow things like this to wash over us or are we informed and influenced in any way? I am of course referring to the mid seventies but it is a growing thing and our scene has lasted a long time indeed.

Putting the seventies North of England under the microscope most will have us believe that "It's grim up North", a dull grey Lowry type existence where weekend footy and a pint and a grope on a Saturday night was the best we could hope for. Lot of stereo typing being done here yet having a club like Wigan casino emerging to capture the imagination of a nation does not make much sense? Should it?

Is it just a night out, did we leave any footprints apart from Polyvelts and Brogues?

"Dedicated to Jerry"

[Pete S]

I don't know.

[ImberBoy]

Pete you're a thug, but I love ya!

[Guest GFAS03]

I don't know.

lol...

however, slightly more constructively, I'd say that the scene made a lot of people happy, a lot of people feel a bit different from the crowd, and maybe somewhere encouraged them to think for themselves outside of the music. Proving it would be impossible, and in the end, does it matter?

I'm grateful for what it did for me, it's definitely more than a night out.

[Guest pls1]

its just a night out

[shuggie61]

Perhaps you'd be interested in this?

Dancing in the Street

Motown and the Cultural Politics of Detroit

Suzanne E. Smith

• Honorable Mention for the 2000 John Hope Franklin Prize, Sponsored by the American Studies Association

Detroit in the 1960s was a city with a pulse: people were marching in step with Martin Luther King, Jr., dancing in the street with Martha and the Vandellas, and facing off with city police. Through it all, Motown provided the beat. This book tells the story of Motown--as both musical style and entrepreneurial phenomenon--and of its intrinsic relationship to the politics and culture of Motor Town, USA.

As Suzanne Smith traces the evolution of Motown from a small record company firmly rooted in Detroit's black community to an international music industry giant, she gives us a clear look at cultural politics at the grassroots level. Here we see Motown's music not as the mere soundtrack for its historical moment but as an active agent in the politics of the time. In this story, Motown Records had a distinct role to play in the city's black community as that community articulated and promoted its own social, cultural, and political agendas. Smith shows how these local agendas, which reflected the unique concerns of African Americans living in the urban North, both responded to and reconfigured the national civil rights campaign.

Against a background of events on the national scene--featuring Martin Luther King, Jr., Langston Hughes, Nat King Cole, and Malcolm X--Dancing in the Street presents a vivid picture of the civil rights movement in Detroit, with Motown at its heart. This is a lively and vital history. It's peopled with a host of major and minor figures in black politics, culture, and the arts, and full of the passions of a momentous era. It offers a critical new perspective on the role of popular culture in the process of political change.

[Patto]

What was it that the great Bill Shankley said about football

FOOTBALLS NOT A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, ITS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT

Substitute A NORTHERN SOUL NIGHT OUT inplace of FOOTBALL

OF course it made a difference the unwashed masses are desperately jealous of our scene. It made us individuals and set us up perfectly do deal with all lifes crapness, theres an answer to everything while your listening to Soul music

[Julie Moore]

great post and i totally agree dont know what id have done without the great toons to take away all your problems for a while

[grantdyche]

Fantastic thread,

It's very hard for people who have never been involved or beacame a member of the Northern Soul scene,To understand just what it is that makes people like us tick,

My wife likes a few tunes,but finds it hard to believe that I can sit at home looking at SS all night long,Many times I just read and never reply,I just like to see other peoples views on the subject,

So it must have made an impact on me somewere in my life to make myself and many others just to keep on staying with it,

No time in my adult life(14 til 50) have I ever stopped loving the music,Don't get me wrong I'm not out there at All-Nighters every week,or even at Northern nights in general,

But yes I think Northern Soul changed my life,I think it gave me a wider outlook on things that I may not have thought of,I think it gave me a belief in friendship,

And yes it's "a night out",But more often than not a bloody good one at that

[ImberBoy]

I think it made me more cosmopolitan?

I joined the Army quite late being 21 years old in 1984 joining a melting pot (so they'd have you believe) of young fit 17 to 25 year olds from all walks of life and from all over the country. Once I reached my first posting I was very aware of "Squaddie" culture of weekend BBQ's, union flag T-Shirts and the beer, fight n f**k attitude that was so eagerly taken on by most.

I found this immediately boring and I hungered for my music. I think it must be said that the third wave of Northernsoul was happening and for my age group we felt very at home carrying the torch after it was dropped and left to go out after the closure of the Casino and over exaggerated death of Northernsoul, There was a new underground and a new clique of national travelers who when they turned up to a place they were there not as passengers or visiting tourists they were the evolved hard corps and I was running with the pack and loved it!

Whilst 99.9% of my mates were happy enough to party in the NAAFI on camp wearing the usual squaddie garb and doing the squaddie shuffle after the appropriate level of Stella, I could be seen leaving then throng clutching my nighter bag and dressing slightly different than my comrades in arms.

When I was posted to Germany I found my self inside a protective bubble, behind our camp gates was a little English village and there was no real need to ever rub shoulders with any thing foreign but I went further than the camp confines and ventured out into the German scene and I have a wealth of precious memories from this and an experience of being away from the umbilical mother ship.

Did this attribute to any of my life skills? Did this influence me in any way?

I don't ever feel fazed at traveling alone now and I don't ever feel uncomfortable when faced with the phony tough guys, our scene has its real tough guys and we certainly rub shoulders with the dodgy?

[good angel]

Fantastic thread,

It's very hard for people who have never been involved or beacame a member of the Northern Soul scene,To understand just what it is that makes people like us tick,

My wife likes a few tunes,but finds it hard to believe that I can sit at home looking at SS all night long,Many times I just read and never reply,I just like to see other peoples views on the subject,

So it must have made an impact on me somewere in my life to make myself and many others just to keep on staying with it,

No time in my adult life(14 til 50) have I ever stopped loving the music,Don't get me wrong I'm not out there at All-Nighters every week,or even at Northern nights in general,

But yes I think Northern Soul changed my life,I think it gave me a wider outlook on things that I may not have thought of,I think it gave me a belief in friendship,

And yes it's "a night out",But more often than not a bloody good one at that

Ive always said N/Soul,was my first love,and like your first girlfriend you never forget them,and they always have a place in your heart.

But Iam still in love with my first love (N/Soul)

Kev.

[Guest isis]

I dont think it's just a night out as your going for a purpose, to listen to a specific genre of music and meet like minded people. If it was just that, why do people travel so far and sometimes stay over for anything from 1 night to 2 weeks.

Another part of the scene thats unique is that of solo female attendees at events. I know a few who quite happily do this and why not...I've done it myself once or twice. I dont know of any other scene where a solo lady can...

1. Know she is in a safe unthreatening enviroment.

2. Will not be looked at askance or made to feel she is somehow weird.

3. Will likely be welcomed into a friendly group soon after arrival.

...and long may it continue.

[Guest]

I think it made me more cosmopolitan?

I joined the Army quite late being 21 years old in 1984 joining a melting pot (so they'd have you believe) of young fit 17 to 25 year olds from all walks of life and from all over the country. Once I reached my first posting I was very aware of "Squaddie" culture of weekend BBQ's, union flag T-Shirts and the beer, fight n f**k attitude that was so eagerly taken on by most.

I found this immediately boring and I hungered for my music. I think it must be said that the third wave of Northernsoul was happening and for my age group we felt very at home carrying the torch after it was dropped and left to go out after the closure of the Casino and over exaggerated death of Northernsoul, There was a new underground and a new clique of national travelers who when they turned up to a place they were there not as passengers or visiting tourists they were the evolved hard corps and I was running with the pack and loved it!

Whilst 99.9% of my mates were happy enough to party in the NAAFI on camp wearing the usual squaddie garb and doing the squaddie shuffle after the appropriate level of Stella, I could be seen leaving then throng clutching my nighter bag and dressing slightly different than my comrades in arms.

When I was posted to Germany I found my self inside a protective bubble, behind our camp gates was a little English village and there was no real need to ever rub shoulders with any thing foreign but I went further than the camp confines and ventured out into the German scene and I have a wealth of precious memories from this and an experience of being away from the umbilical mother ship.

Did this attribute to any of my life skills? Did this influence me in any way?

I don't ever feel fazed at traveling alone now and I don't ever feel uncomfortable when faced with the phony tough guys, our scene has its real tough guys and we certainly rub shoulders with the dodgy?

Ditto Simon but 14 years before ya - same description/experience tho with the ubique cries of "ya think ya chuffing special cos ya different dontcha?" Happy daze...............

[Ian Dewhirst]

Much more than a night out Simon. It absolutely changed my life and I feel blessed to have been lucky enough to have lived through such a fantastic era. I often describe Northern Soul as being the eighth wonder of the world 'cos that's what it was to me. It got me on a plane to the states in '76, a million-selling record and pretty much a career doing what I love to do ever since.

So no. Not a night out at all mate. More like 10,000 nights out!

Merry Christmas!

Ian D

[Guest Scarborosoul]

No not just a night out.

NS has influenced my life since the age of 14. Even to the point of starting my 1st marriage honeymoon at the Casino.

Rick

[Guest Dante]

It probably is one of the most significant night out in history.

It has influenced thousands of people, and it's a corner stone in modern-day popular culture. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nu-rave, rave, house, disco, even hip hop are influenced by it. Just as Jamaican music, is one of the most under estimated pop movements in history. It changed the way we think of music, parties, DJing, collecting records, etc. And of course it has influenced many people personally.

But I don't think it's had a real social or political influence. It did not had anything to do with the civil right movement whatsoever, or any other socio-political movement for that matter...

It's much more than just a night out, but if someone was to write a book on XXth century history there'd be thousands of subject he/she'd write about first...

[Guest]

It probably is one of the most significant night out in history.

It has influenced thousands of people, and it's a corner stone in modern-day popular culture. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nu-rave, rave, house, disco, even hip hop are influenced by it. Just as Jamaican music, is one of the most under estimated pop movements in history. It changed the way we think of music, parties, DJing, collecting records, etc. And of course it has influenced many people personally.

But I don't think it's had a real social or political influence. It did not had anything to do with the civil right movement whatsoever, or any other socio-political movement for that matter...

It's much more than just a night out, but if someone was to write a book on XXth century history there'd be thousands of subject he/she'd write about first...

That first time you step across the threshold of a room where soul music is played , and the music takes a hold of you , there is no going back , for you will dwell in that house of that particular lord forever .

I have stepped across many threasholds in soon to be my 45th year on the club / soul / NS scene , and will continue to do so .

Just a night out ? It is like saying your first kiss was just a kiss ......

Malc Burton

[Guest Dante]

That first time you step across the threshold of a room where soul music is played , and the music takes a hold of you , there is no going back , for you will dwell in that house of that particular lord forever .

I have stepped across many threasholds in soon to be my 45th year on the club / soul / NS scene , and will continue to do so .

Just a night out ? It is like saying your first kiss was just a kiss ......

Malc Burton

Hey Malc, dunno if you were replying directly to me. If you were, and you read my post again, you'll find that's what I'm saying. It's much more than a night out to people and popular culture... Not so much to history as a whole.

I'm afraid I cheerish soul music more than my first kiss...

[Rich B]

It changed our lives, and it certainly influenced other scenes and the whole 'do it all night/all day' thing. But I think we sometimes take it all too seriously. I certainly don't think we should think our scene so important it might have helped the civil rights movement - even in this country.

And though I run the risk of a severe 'forum beating', when I took a ( knew nothing about NS) girlfriend to a NS do she thought it hilarious that 50 (+) year old men (most not as slim now as they once were) dressed in reproduction bags and bar towels they wore when they were young. Initially she thought I had taken her to a fancy dress do...there's a scene that has matured well eh? Try telling someone you were on a 'cutting edge scene' as a lad when she's seen that kind of nonsense.

Oh, and by the way, bar towels were ridiculous when they were first worn as adornments, whenever that was.

So, more than 'just' a night out then, barely qualifies as one now.

ktf,

RB

[Rich B]

Hi Doog,

It isn't usually my intention when I set out, but if it needs saying...

best,

RB

[ImberBoy]

It changed our lives, and it certainly influenced other scenes and the whole 'do it all night/all day' thing. But I think we sometimes take it all too seriously. I certainly don't think we should think our scene so important it might have helped the civil rights movement - even in this country.

And though I run the risk of a severe 'forum beating', when I took a ( knew nothing about NS) girlfriend to a NS do she thought it hilarious that 50 (+) year old men (most not as slim now as they once were) dressed in reproduction bags and bar towels they wore when they were young. Initially she thought I had taken her to a fancy dress do...there's a scene that has matured well eh? Try telling someone you were on a 'cutting edge scene' as a lad when she's seen that kind of nonsense.

Oh, and by the way, bar towels were ridiculous when they were first worn as adornments, whenever that was.

So, more than 'just' a night out then, barely qualifies as one now.

ktf,

RB

Rich B

Your girlfriend won't be the first or the last to find reproduction bags and bar towels funny, I'm wearing my bar towel as I type this and it makes me giggle.

I too don't think we should think our scene so important it might have helped the civil rights movement - even in this country.

It matters not how important we think of our selves, the question is having we had an impact on our society? Did we as a soul scene attribute to a change in thinking?

Rich I am not trying to suggest that we have spawned our own Malcolm X; I am asking do you think we changed a flavor?

I believe we may not have impacted any thing, impact is a harsh word that smacks of a tangible change, I do think we may have taken the first real tentative and small steps towards tolerance, let me explain my theory.

Last night I visited a soul night in Barnsley, I have to use a few clich and stereo typing here so an apology in advance.

The room was full of working class men and women who hale from one of England's gritty mining tarns not famous for their cosmopolitan attitudes but here were men, the ones that make your girlfriend chuckle, dancing like Billy Elliot's. There was a freedom of expression that just doesn't make sense in what is a "Red Neck" stronghold, I can see me making a right cake n arse job of this but I will continue aware of the hole I am now digging.

In the corner is a visiting crew from The EMSC all are famous faces from the Casino days and all are bedecked in their chosen garb, amongst them is the black face of Carl who has just torn the dance floor up with a move that shouldn't be possible for any one of our age group.

No one is flexing any muscles or looking side ways, no one is remotely bothered that a group have traveled and are now dancing and dominating the floor, remember I am stereo typing here and finding it quite difficult to put my thoughts to word.

No one seams in the slightest bit phased at this and you must remember that years ago the sight of a wrong colored rose on a Barathea Jacket was the cue for violence.

Nothing kicked off why should it? Is it all down to us being more mature and aged like fine wine? Possibly? There is another theory and that is we, as a scene have learned to tolerate traveling groups who are united by the banner of Northernsoul, I may be well and truly off the mark here but I kinda think, hope, suspect that we have done our little part?

Any way , yer girlfriends a bitch and you should ditch her before as soon as poss, give me a ring and I'll hook you up with a fine lass from Barnsley who can cook n do stuff and will not be so rude as to you warranting a forum post about her behavior.

[barney]

Rich B

Your girlfriend won't be the first or the last to find reproduction bags and bar towels funny, I'm wearing my bar towel as I type this and it makes me giggle.

I too don't think we should think our scene so important it might have helped the civil rights movement - even in this country.

It matters not how important we think of our selves, the question is having we had an impact on our society? Did we as a soul scene attribute to a change in thinking?

Rich I am not trying to suggest that we have spawned our own Malcolm X; I am asking do you think we changed a flavor?

I believe we may not have impacted any thing, impact is a harsh word that smacks of a tangible change, I do think we may have taken the first real tentative and small steps towards tolerance, let me explain my theory.

Last night I visited a soul night in Barnsley, I have to use a few clich and stereo typing here so an apology in advance.

The room was full of working class men and women who hale from one of England's gritty mining tarns not famous for their cosmopolitan attitudes but here were men, the ones that make your girlfriend chuckle, dancing like Billy Elliot's. There was a freedom of expression that just doesn't make sense in what is a "Red Neck" stronghold, I can see me making a right cake n arse job of this but I will continue aware of the hole I am now digging.

In the corner is a visiting crew from The EMSC all are famous faces from the Casino days and all are bedecked in their chosen garb, amongst them is the black face of Carl who has just torn the dance floor up with a move that shouldn't be possible for any one of our age group.

No one is flexing any muscles or looking side ways, no one is remotely bothered that a group have traveled and are now dancing and dominating the floor, remember I am stereo typing here and finding it quite difficult to put my thoughts to word.

No one seams in the slightest bit phased at this and you must remember that years ago the sight of a wrong colored rose on a Barathea Jacket was the cue for violence.

Nothing kicked off why should it? Is it all down to us being more mature and aged like fine wine? Possibly? There is another theory and that is we, as a scene have learned to tolerate traveling groups who are united by the banner of Northernsoul, I may be well and truly off the mark here but I kinda think, hope, suspect that we have done our little part?

Any way , yer girlfriends a bitch and you should ditch her before as soon as poss, give me a ring and I'll hook you up with a fine lass from Barnsley who can cook n do stuff and will not be so rude as to you warranting a forum post about her behavior.

can see where your coming from simon , in a bog standard typical wmc one of many mainly in the north and midlands,, people locals and visitors mingle ,converse and dance in a friendly non intimidating atmosphere,

as you say hard to imagine this 30 yrs ago but its same with the football scene (apart from the mindless minority ) we have all grown up become mature and more open .

but it is more than just a nightout ..do it every w/end, and am now lookin forward to next w/end and some big soul events planned over christmas..

thinked we are blessed in our scene and long may it continue

cheers b

[Naughty Boy]

the communal thing, unwritten code of conduct, no violence, tolerance,made a big impression on the rave scene early days,people when they drop the "were you from" attitude became people again

regards doog

think it may also be a dancing dust kinda thing too along with the music

[Shsdave]

It changed our lives, and it certainly influenced other scenes and the whole 'do it all night/all day' thing. But I think we sometimes take it all too seriously. I certainly don't think we should think our scene so important it might have helped the civil rights movement - even in this country.

And though I run the risk of a severe 'forum beating', when I took a ( knew nothing about NS) girlfriend to a NS do she thought it hilarious that 50 (+) year old men (most not as slim now as they once were) dressed in reproduction bags and bar towels they wore when they were young. Initially she thought I had taken her to a fancy dress do...there's a scene that has matured well eh? Try telling someone you were on a 'cutting edge scene' as a lad when she's seen that kind of nonsense.

Oh, and by the way, bar towels were ridiculous when they were first worn as adornments, whenever that was.

So, more than 'just' a night out then, barely qualifies as one now.

ktf,

RB

Well she wasn't wrong Rich, I find it hilarious & slightly pathetic to see these fat 50+ (i'm one) blokes waddling about the dance floor in their bags & beer towels fancy dress outfit ( I'm not one of these tho') Just what do they think they look like ? Fortunately it only seems to be in vogue where the music seems to be trapped in the same time capsule as their dress sense!

[Guest]

IMBER BOY SAID:

Any way , yer girlfriends a bitch and you should ditch her before as soon as poss, give me a ring and I'll hook you up with a fine lass from Barnsley who can cook n do stuff and will not be so rude as to you warranting a forum post about her behavior.

CHORLEYSOUL SAID:

Fooking brilliant.

[Shsdave]

IMBER BOY SAID:

Any way , yer girlfriends a bitch and you should ditch her before as soon as poss, give me a ring and I'll hook you up with a fine lass from Barnsley who can cook n do stuff and will not be so rude as to you warranting a forum post about her behavior.

CHORLEYSOUL SAID:

Fooking brilliant.

Ha Ha yes agreed

[Rich B]

Rich B

Your girlfriend won't be the first or the last to find reproduction bags and bar towels funny, I'm wearing my bar towel as I type this and it makes me giggle.

I too don't think we should think our scene so important it might have helped the civil rights movement - even in this country.

It matters not how important we think of our selves, the question is having we had an impact on our society? Did we as a soul scene attribute to a change in thinking?

Rich I am not trying to suggest that we have spawned our own Malcolm X; I am asking do you think we changed a flavor?

I believe we may not have impacted any thing, impact is a harsh word that smacks of a tangible change, I do think we may have taken the first real tentative and small steps towards tolerance, let me explain my theory.

Last night I visited a soul night in Barnsley, I have to use a few cliché and stereo typing here so an apology in advance.

The room was full of working class men and women who hale from one of England's gritty mining tarns not famous for their cosmopolitan attitudes but here were men, the ones that make your girlfriend chuckle, dancing like Billy Elliot's. There was a freedom of expression that just doesn't make sense in what is a "Red Neck" stronghold, I can see me making a right cake n arse job of this but I will continue aware of the hole I am now digging.

In the corner is a visiting crew from The EMSC all are famous faces from the Casino days and all are bedecked in their chosen garb, amongst them is the black face of Carl who has just torn the dance floor up with a move that shouldn't be possible for any one of our age group.

No one is flexing any muscles or looking side ways, no one is remotely bothered that a group have traveled and are now dancing and dominating the floor, remember I am stereo typing here and finding it quite difficult to put my thoughts to word.

No one seams in the slightest bit phased at this and you must remember that years ago the sight of a wrong colored rose on a Barathea Jacket was the cue for violence.

Nothing kicked off why should it? Is it all down to us being more mature and aged like fine wine? Possibly? There is another theory and that is we, as a scene have learned to tolerate traveling groups who are united by the banner of Northernsoul, I may be well and truly off the mark here but I kinda think, hope, suspect that we have done our little part?

Any way , yer girlfriends a bitch and you should ditch her before as soon as poss, give me a ring and I'll hook you up with a fine lass from Barnsley who can cook n do stuff and will not be so rude as to you warranting a forum post about her behavior.

Sorry I this is delayed I wouldn't like anyone to think I wasn't up for the debate, but you know how work can be, the girlfriend in question was a bitch, but she was my bitch! A couple of things to raise when it comes down to it;

1. Dave Godin always warned we would become like the Teddy boys unless we embraced a newer sound. Wearing reproduction clothes from a bygone era? I rest my case on that one.

2. THE black face of Carl. Singular.

Those things said, the tolerance of others (when I started travelling football violence was a big thing in the real world, so to queue with scousers etc and not end up fighting was amazing), but there was plenty of discord between Mecca/Wigan fans, and there is more than enough bickering on this very forum to make me wonder about how truly tolerant we are.

I want to make clear though, I love northern soul (and all other forms), the years (and as anyone who knows me will confirm there were quite a lot of them) I was active on the scene were some of the happiest of my life. The people (with some exceptions - you know who you are) were great, and there isn't anything I like more than hearing a 'good' new, if there is such a thing, northern tune to this day.

Yes, the scene influenced many things, because WE grew up to have jobs that influenced things and we were influenced by it.

Now, I really have got to get in some work...

best,

RB

Edited December 16, 2009 by Rich B

[barney]

Sorry I this is delayed I wouldn't like anyone to think I wasn't up for the debate, but you know how work can be, the girlfriend in question was a bitch, but she was my bitch! A couple of things to raise when it comes down to it;

1. Dave Godin always warned we would become like the Teddy boys unless we embraced a newer sound. Wearing reproduction clothes from a bygone era? I rest my case on that one.

2. THE black face of Carl. Singular.

Those things said, the tolerance of others (when I started travelling football violence was a big thing in the real world, so to queue with scousers etc and not end up fighting was amazing), but there was plenty of discord between Mecca/Wigan fans, and there is more than enough bickering on this very forum to make me wonder about how truly tolerant we are.

I want to make clear though, I love northern soul (and all other forms), the years (and as anyone who knows me will confirm there were quite a lot of them) I was active on the scene were some of the happiest of my life. The people (with some exceptions - you know who you are) were great, and there isn't anything I like more than hearing a 'good' new, if there is such a thing, northern tune to this day.

Yes, the scene influenced many things, because WE grew up to have jobs that influenced things and we were influenced by it.

Now, I really have got to get in some work...

best,

RB

how many of the post ww2 music scenes have survived the 40 years that the northern soul scene has and its as far as I can see still going strong, you mention teddy boys probably rarer than giant pandas in the wild now,

you mention DG so he is the font of all things northern, and the wearing of retro clothes.. only a fraction of the people into the scene wear these and imho dont think they look ridiculous each to their own I say you probably dressed naff at times but I WOULDNT DREAM OF SAYING SO .

to me the classic oldies are the bedrock of the sound we call northern soul and yes these are added to year on year and the music at venues evolves more slowly at some than others , and like the wheel yes its oldies only but people who go know that,

,I attend long established soul nights and the music has changed over the years ,

what I fail to grasp is the craving to hear more and more new sounds and the expectation of hearing more new sounds when you go to certain venues ,, which when I have been to such venues the endless playin of new /rare/sounds have left me feeling cold and a mental note to go somewhere else in future or to look out for the dj and avoid if possible.

why arent people happy with the great wealth of soul music we have why have this constant obsession with finding the holy grail.

there are many 100s of venues with differing music policies its up to you to choose ,

to me its a special night out everytime, and if you go into any town centre and mingle amongst the masses and try contemporary entertainment and music then I for one am gratefull I belong to such a fantastic scene and long may it continue.

cheers b

.

Edited December 16, 2009 by barney

[Rich B]

A few interesting points there Barney;

1. No, I never have worn naff clothes - though I remeber being heckled by 'townies for wearing flat shoes. In the early 1970's the northern scene really was at the cutting edge of fashion. You watch those programmes set in the 70's where everyone is in flares and platforms and wonder why you don't recall 1975 that way - it's because by then you (well I wasn't) weren't even buying clothes on the high street you were having them made. And due to spending as much on records and nighters as I could I wasn't the most fashionably dressed. I say with some pride, I have never sewn patches all over my clothes, never wore those riciculously high waistbanded trousers that became a parody. Closest I have ever been to a bar towel is in a bar.

2. You seem to have taken my mention of retro clothing (by the way it isn't retro if you dress as you did when you were 17, I called it reproduction) very personally, don't, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.

3. Without all the searching for the holy grail as you call it, there wouldn't be any wealth of soul music - where do you think it came from? the Stork didn't bring it you know. And incidentally, the very last time I was in a northern room they played "The love I lost" and slagged off modern soul. I don't get that at all.

4. I don't know if Dave Godin was the be all and end all of soul music. He was then, and he still has my respect.

5. A scene that stagnates dies.

best,

RB

[barney]

A few interesting points there Barney;

1. No, I never have worn naff clothes - though I remeber being heckled by 'townies for wearing flat shoes. In the early 1970's the northern scene really was at the cutting edge of fashion. You watch those programmes set in the 70's where everyone is in flares and platforms and wonder why you don't recall 1975 that way - it's because by then you (well I wasn't) weren't even buying clothes on the high street you were having them made. And due to spending as much on records and nighters as I could I wasn't the most fashionably dressed. I say with some pride, I have never sewn patches all over my clothes, never wore those riciculously high waistbanded trousers that became a parody. Closest I have ever been to a bar towel is in a bar.

2. You seem to have taken my mention of retro clothing (by the way it isn't retro if you dress as you did when you were 17, I called it reproduction) very personally, don't, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.

3. Without all the searching for the holy grail as you call it, there wouldn't be any wealth of soul music - where do you think it came from? the Stork didn't bring it you know. And incidentally, the very last time I was in a northern room they played "The love I lost" and slagged off modern soul. I don't get that at all.

4. I don't know if Dave Godin was the be all and end all of soul music. He was then, and he still has my respect.

5. A scene that stagnates dies.

best,

RB

well rich first of all would like to commend you for your consistant sartorial elegance

have to agree wrt the flares etc, tho have previously stated never did the bags but m2m barathea blazers , crombies and suits were in for me

also brogues and loafers , which left me almost skint

but way back then the new sounds were a weekly occourence and yes it was great and exciting, but over the years a lot of what had been played was discarded for various reasons , some because they didnt cut the mustard and werent good enough ,

I think that once the initial thrust of the scene late 60s to mid 70s most of what I would call classic oldies had been discovered and a lot of sounds had fallen by the wayside (now in the rare and underplayed bracket)

but like I have said the music has evolved and newer or rediscovered sounds have become dare I say mainstream, this is an ongoing process, I dont believe my take on the the scene is stagnating but to me there are less and less new sounds that I consider northern to be had

like I have said there is a wealth of music to be played that is already within our domain... and just question whether this perceived constant quest to hear new music is not detrimental ie, in terms of quality to what I see the northern soul scene as being--simply put some of the new music I hear is not and never will be northern, imho of course but each to their own and thats why we have such a wealth of different venues and opinions and long may it continue