How Long Will N.soul Last

[grantdyche]

Hello all.

Simple question, How long until the last ever soul night?

Over to you.....

Not looked at other posts,So I will just put in my two penny worth.

What a stupid bloody question,

The simple answer is never,The fact that you and I are on here on the good old fashioned "Tinternet",Even thinking about it will make other like minded folk think again,The question is when will we / or other people stop loving this music,The answer is never,And the reason is"The music",

Loads of young kids,are now dancing away "all night" at Soul nights because they want to,Easy really the music is the answer

[barney]

The scene could be around for decades to come ,but only if the majority of venues i e oldies nights gave younger blood a chance . ie on the dance floor d.jing etc most seem to shun them and think theyer takin the p..s , we were all young once . also get rid of the baggy trouses and beer towels they dont know how daft he look to the younger generation

they may look daft to some but its something that makes n/soul stand out and if you had been to kingsway hall last night and seen some youngens who are really into it maybe you would change your mind

why dress like everyone else why become mainstream the bags the towels and holdalls are part and parcel of the scene

if you want normal why not just go to any town centre club and listen and dance to whats on offer , some of the more upfront venues play town centre disco/funk anyway

[Guest lizz]

HOPEFULLY TILL THE END OF TIME

Edited November 29, 2009 by lizz

[Chalky]

they may look daft to some but its something that makes n/soul stand out and if you had been to kingsway hall last night and seen some youngens who are really into it maybe you would change your mind

why dress like everyone else why become mainstream the bags the towels and holdalls are part and parcel of the scene

if you want normal why not just go to any town centre club and listen and dance to whats on offer , some of the more upfront venues play town centre disco/funk anyway

bags were the fashion of the time, why does everything of times gone by have to be associated with today's scene or to make it stand out. Its the music that makes it stand out and different to any other dance scene, not the clothes we wear. Flares were a terrible fashion back then and are just as bad now but hey, each to their own. I see more out and about who don't wear yesteryears fashion and still dance the night away and have a good time. Many young uns I've seen who you say are into it are just a younger representation of their parents, same dress sense and same taste in music. The young un's who don't really have any attachment to parents at venues, or who's parents who do attend venues have moved with the time don't dress in yesteryears fashions and don't feel the need to. Are they any less into it? They don't look it.

And just which upfront venues play town centre disco/funk or are you making sweeping generalisations not based on experience??? Name the venues!

Edited November 29, 2009 by chalky

[Guest proudlove]

bags were the fashion of the time, why does everything of times gone by have to be associated with today's scene or to make it stand out. Itsthe music that makes it stand out and different to any other dance scene, not the cloths we wear. Flares were a terrible fashion back then and are just as bad now but hey, each to their own. I see more out and about who don't wear yesteryears fashion and still dance the night away and have a good time. Many young uns I've seen who you say are into it are just a younger representation of their parents, same dress sense and same taste in music. The young un's who don't really have any attachment to parents at venues, or who's parents who do attend venues have moved with the time don't dress in yesteryears fashions and don't feel the need to. Are they any less into it? They don't look it.

And just which upfront venues play town centre disco/funk or are you making sweeping generalisations not based on experience??? Name the venues!

Bags were a fashion of a small part of time at Wigan.

People wearing fashions from that time are making a statement.

What that statement is I'm not sure.

Don't see the hairstyles of that time,or the cars,----------I guess nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

Please also look at the Photos that Brigid/Sue/Jez have posted from the early seventies--------bags/badges/bartowels--------I dont think so.

[jocko]

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I feel the truth needs to be told. The real Northern Soul scene is gone, its actually been dead for nigh on 10 years. It all started when a group of the undead were brought back to life, their mission to create an exact image of a time long gone, reflecting the best 18 months of their life's, when they had been Soulies keeping the faith. 30 years later, the faith had mysteriously returned, having been lost in an old Addidas hold all under the stairs for all those years. They soon multiplied, bringing back many other lost souls into the family, marching uniformly to their nearest Working Mans club, they could march as it was never more than 15 minutes away from home.

Their initial tactic was smothering those who had survived the barren years of the 80's and 90's with talc bombs and then finally suffocating the remaining survivors with their beer towels, holding up there new leader by the vest straps, spinning him around their heads and crowning them with the exact replica bootleg of Frank Wilson, celebrating by dancing long into the night, well until half past midnight anyway as that's the latest licence the club could get.

Now all thats left is a Matrix type illusion of a Northern scene, with all these alien head quarters based around the country, with a high concentration in East Midlands alleged, there are a few pockets of revolutionaries carrying on, again allegedly as don't want them to be caught, rumour says you need to look for the horses in Wolverhampton (although be careful here, there are already aliens imitating the real thing on some weeks), the smell of old jazz cats in London, and the dodgiest toilets in Stoke, they are out there but they are in danger of being overrun/

It needs to be saved, someone is needed to lead the revolution again, where is your Neo, Is he (or she) among the few remaining survivors of the guerilla Northern Scene who retreated to far off places licking their wounds and caressing carefully their vinyl, but remember nothing is as it seems, the ones wearing the long leather coats this time are likely to be the baddies..............

[Chalky]

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I feel the truth needs to be told. The real Northern Soul scene is gone, its actually been dead for nigh on 10 years. It all started when a group of the undead were brought back to life, their mission to create an exact image of a time long gone, reflecting the best 18 months of their life's, when they had been Soulies keeping the faith. 30 years later, the faith had mysteriously returned, having been lost in an old Addidas hold all under the stairs for all those years. They soon multiplied, bringing back many other lost souls into the family, marching uniformly to their nearest Working Mans club, they could march as it was never more than 15 minutes away from home.

Their initial tactic was smothering those who had survived the barren years of the 80's and 90's with talc bombs and then finally suffocating the remaining survivors with their beer towels, holding up there new leader by the vest straps, spinning him around their heads and crowning them with the exact replica bootleg of Frank Wilson, celebrating by dancing long into the night, well until half past midnight anyway as that's the latest licence the club could get.

Now all thats left is a Matrix type illusion of a Northern scene, with all these alien head quarters based around the country, with a high concentration in East Midlands alleged, there are a few pockets of revolutionaries carrying on, again allegedly as don't want them to be caught, rumour says you need to look for the horses in Wolverhampton (although be careful here, there are already aliens imitating the real thing on some weeks), the smell of old jazz cats in London, and the dodgiest toilets in Stoke, they are out there but they are in danger of being overrun/

It needs to be saved, someone is needed to lead the revolution again, where is your Neo, Is he (or she) among the few remaining survivors of the guerilla Northern Scene who retreated to far off places licking their wounds and caressing carefully their vinyl, but remember nothing is as it seems, the ones wearing the long leather coats this time are likely to be the baddies..............

see you Sunday mate in Hibs hopefully

[Guest Soultown andy]

Scene,s very healthy at moment theres never been such a great choice of venues,so should be around a long time yet.As for the bags full circles didnt like em didnt wear em in 70,s,personaly not for me but each to there own.Dont agree its a good way to introduce youth into the scene,most of the young uns i know find it a bit cringy .Most of the younger end i see on the niter scene seem to lean towards the mod smoothie fashion sense.Cant really speak for the oldies club scene as i dont attend many,so it might be different.

[barney]

bags were the fashion of the time, why does everything of times gone by have to be associated with today's scene or to make it stand out. Itsthe music that makes it stand out and different to any other dance scene, not the cloths we wear. Flares were a terrible fashion back then and are just as bad now but hey, each to their own. I see more out and about who don't wear yesteryears fashion and still dance the night away and have a good time. Many young uns I've seen who you say are into it are just a younger representation of their parents, same dress sense and same taste in music. The young un's who don't really have any attachment to parents at venues, or who's parents who do attend venues have moved with the time don't dress in yesteryears fashions and don't feel the need to. Are they any less into it? They don't look it.

And just which upfront venues play town centre disco/funk or are you making sweeping generalisations not based on experience??? Name the venues!

ok chalky

I have a confession to make , personnally dont wear bags . thought I looked silly in them first time round. but what gets me is people who sneer at them and by implication the people who wear them.

yes your right its the music but the clothes make it easily identifiable nowt wrong with that in my opinion, and went to a venue last night where there were as many wearing this uniform (for want of a better word) as there were people dressed normally,,and it was packed solid and informed it is full every month..

aint getting into no arguements about naming and shaming venues but will make this observation , travel up and down yorks and notts to venues occasionally going over the hills into injun country (lancs) and mainly to venues that play classic oldies;

when I have attended a venue with an upfront /progressive music policy have noticed a lack of numbers and also have recentley noticed on here one or two venues changing from a.t.b back to oldies, and believe that is going to be a growing trend.

modern/progressive is not wearing and the limp insipid mid tempo stuff that is being played at some venues will never cut the mustard as far a I,m concerned

ktf barney

[Guest Soultown andy]

ok chalky

I have a confession to make , personnally dont wear bags . thought I looked silly in them first time round. but what gets me is people who sneer at them and by implication the people who wear them.

yes your right its the music but the clothes make it easily identifiable nowt wrong with that in my opinion, and went to a venue last night where there were as many wearing this uniform (for want of a better word) as there were people dressed normally,,and it was packed solid and informed it is full every month..

aint getting into no arguements about naming and shaming venues but will make this observation , travel up and down yorks and notts to venues occasionally going over the hills into injun country (lancs) and mainly to venues that play classic oldies;

when I have attended a venue with an upfront /progressive music policy have noticed a lack of numbers and also have recentley noticed on here one or two venues changing from a.t.b back to oldies, and believe that is going to be a growing trend.

modern/progressive is not wearing and the limp insipid mid tempo stuff that is being played at some venues will never cut the mustard as far a I,m concerned

ktf barney

Maybe you attended the wrong nights,plenty of very busy upfront venues playing anything but mid tempo insipd stuff.As always each to there own.

[Chalky]

ok chalky

I have a confession to make , personnally dont wear bags . thought I looked silly in them first time round. but what gets me is people who sneer at them and by implication the people who wear them.

yes your right its the music but the clothes make it easily identifiable nowt wrong with that in my opinion, and went to a venue last night where there were as many wearing this uniform (for want of a better word) as there were people dressed normally,,and it was packed solid and informed it is full every month..

aint getting into no arguements about naming and shaming venues but will make this observation , travel up and down yorks and notts to venues occasionally going over the hills into injun country (lancs) and mainly to venues that play classic oldies;

when I have attended a venue with an upfront /progressive music policy have noticed a lack of numbers and also have recentley noticed on here one or two venues changing from a.t.b back to oldies, and believe that is going to be a growing trend.

modern/progressive is not wearing and the limp insipid mid tempo stuff that is being played at some venues will never cut the mustard as far a I,m concerned

ktf barney

I neither wish to hear insipid mid tempo/crossoverish records that you can't dance too out at a venue. But there are venues out there that are upfront and play dancers, try Lifeline, the best of the lot and the best nighter in the country IMHO. Plenty of others, soul nights and venues that have more progressive attitudes to the music too. United Sound of Soul where I was last night was great, hardly anything you would hear in the Notts/South Yorkshire areas yet the vast majority (99%) were dancers. I'm sure the same can be said about the 100 Club and Burnley which were also on last night, I haven't even looked at what Soul nights were on last night to comment further.

[good angel]

I remember standing behind some young'uns at a nighter, a girl said to her boyfriend,its full of old folk,I had chuckle to myself,she then turned to me and asked why have them old folks all got sports bags.

Kev

[barney]

Maybe you attended the wrong nights,plenty of very busy upfront venues playing anything but mid tempo insipd stuff.As always each to there own.

andy been tryin to count the number of different venues Ive been to this year and its plus 30 including w/enders and a weekat lanzorote soul in the sun lol (not after braggin rights) so think am able to contribute and yes have been to busy upfront venues where I have not paticularlly liked the music but still enjoyed the night;

have stated before stopped doing niters because of the music policies and anyway like to keep compus mentis at w/ends to indulge my other passion scootering . yes as you say each to their own but some people take this fookin seriously

[good angel]

....

At that point Kev did you open your Adidas bag and show her the contents?

Adidas,Adidas,

Your posh more like Lidl bag for me.

Kev

[Guest Soultown andy]

andy been tryin to count the number of different venues Ive been to this year and its plus 30 including w/enders and a weekat lanzorote soul in the sun lol (not after braggin rights) so think am able to contribute and yes have been to busy upfront venues where I have not paticularlly liked the music but still enjoyed the night;

have stated before stopped doing niters because of the music policies and anyway like to keep compus mentis at w/ends to indulge my other passion scootering . yes as you say each to their own but some people take this fookin seriously

Far to seriously on that we are agreed .I do the scooter wk/ders myself,far more relaxed scene.

[barney]

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I feel the truth needs to be told. The real Northern Soul scene is gone, its actually been dead for nigh on 10 years. It all started when a group of the undead were brought back to life, their mission to create an exact image of a time long gone, reflecting the best 18 months of their life's, when they had been Soulies keeping the faith. 30 years later, the faith had mysteriously returned, having been lost in an old Addidas hold all under the stairs for all those years. They soon multiplied, bringing back many other lost souls into the family, marching uniformly to their nearest Working Mans club, they could march as it was never more than 15 minutes away from home.

Their initial tactic was smothering those who had survived the barren years of the 80's and 90's with talc bombs and then finally suffocating the remaining survivors with their beer towels, holding up there new leader by the vest straps, spinning him around their heads and crowning them with the exact replica bootleg of Frank Wilson, celebrating by dancing long into the night, well until half past midnight anyway as that's the latest licence the club could get.

Now all thats left is a Matrix type illusion of a Northern scene, with all these alien head quarters based around the country, with a high concentration in East Midlands alleged, there are a few pockets of revolutionaries carrying on, again allegedly as don't want them to be caught, rumour says you need to look for the horses in Wolverhampton (although be careful here, there are already aliens imitating the real thing on some weeks), the smell of old jazz cats in London, and the dodgiest toilets in Stoke, they are out there but they are in danger of being overrun/

It needs to be saved, someone is needed to lead the revolution again, where is your Neo, Is he (or she) among the few remaining survivors of the guerilla Northern Scene who retreated to far off places licking their wounds and caressing carefully their vinyl, but remember nothing is as it seems, the ones wearing the long leather coats this time are likely to be the baddies..............

thanks for your tongue in cheek post but the venue I attended last night in n/notts maybe one of your soul nights but people in uniform or normal were prepared to travel from peterborough stockport goole barnsley no chance of doing that on shank,s pony

[Soulandy]

When wigan closed I/we thought that was that, all over bar the memories. How wrong I/we were. How long will it last? Been asking that since 1989 when I got back to going to soul do's. Long may it continue

[Patto]

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I feel the truth needs to be told. The real Northern Soul scene is gone, its actually been dead for nigh on 10 years. It all started when a group of the undead were brought back to life, their mission to create an exact image of a time long gone, reflecting the best 18 months of their life's, when they had been Soulies keeping the faith. 30 years later, the faith had mysteriously returned, having been lost in an old Addidas hold all under the stairs for all those years. They soon multiplied, bringing back many other lost souls into the family, marching uniformly to their nearest Working Mans club, they could march as it was never more than 15 minutes away from home.

Their initial tactic was smothering those who had survived the barren years of the 80's and 90's with talc bombs and then finally suffocating the remaining survivors with their beer towels, holding up there new leader by the vest straps, spinning him around their heads and crowning them with the exact replica bootleg of Frank Wilson, celebrating by dancing long into the night, well until half past midnight anyway as that's the latest licence the club could get.

Now all thats left is a Matrix type illusion of a Northern scene, with all these alien head quarters based around the country, with a high concentration in East Midlands alleged, there are a few pockets of revolutionaries carrying on, again allegedly as don't want them to be caught, rumour says you need to look for the horses in Wolverhampton (although be careful here, there are already aliens imitating the real thing on some weeks), the smell of old jazz cats in London, and the dodgiest toilets in Stoke, they are out there but they are in danger of being overrun/

It needs to be saved, someone is needed to lead the revolution again, where is your Neo, Is he (or she) among the few remaining survivors of the guerilla Northern Scene who retreated to far off places licking their wounds and caressing carefully their vinyl, but remember nothing is as it seems, the ones wearing the long leather coats this time are likely to be the baddies..............

A very well written,tongue in cheek,but thought provoking post Jocko.Oh by the way also TRUE

[Russ Vickers]

ok chalky

I have a confession to make , personnally dont wear bags . thought I looked silly in them first time round. but what gets me is people who sneer at them and by implication the people who wear them.

yes your right its the music but the clothes make it easily identifiable nowt wrong with that in my opinion, and went to a venue last night where there were as many wearing this uniform (for want of a better word) as there were people dressed normally,,and it was packed solid and informed it is full every month..

aint getting into no arguements about naming and shaming venues but will make this observation , travel up and down yorks and notts to venues occasionally going over the hills into injun country (lancs) and mainly to venues that play classic oldies;

when I have attended a venue with an upfront /progressive music policy have noticed a lack of numbers and also have recentley noticed on here one or two venues changing from a.t.b back to oldies, and believe that is going to be a growing trend.

modern/progressive is not wearing and the limp insipid mid tempo stuff that is being played at some venues will never cut the mustard as far a I,m concerned

ktf barney

You are fecking certifiable & your living in a some nostalgia bubble, you f*uckers will kill the scene, stone dead, I cannot put into words how cringe worthy & embarrassing that is, I would rather sell my records & go to an Abba convention than to have any asscotiation with that vomit inducing bilge you pass off as the'scene'..........i have even had to do a Judas when people have mentioned these type of events, as I do not want to be asscotiated with it what so ever.

I want to scream at you WHY, why do you wanna hear the same records, wear daft clothes & worst still, tell anyone who will listen that what you guys do is the real scene, well your wrong. The real scene is the truly underground scene, it was, has been & always will be, 1977 first Nighter & still going strong without a break...........what you are suggesting is the scene could not be further away, there are Soulies turning in thier graves at what you suggest. I cant tell you how wrong you are, the scene is about finding & exposing new & undiscovered soul/dance records to a wider dancing audience, that is the whole point of it, there are some fantastic under played oldies & rareities out there, that we all enjoy hearing now & again too, mix the whole lot up..............

I'm not suggesting dont do what you do if you enjoy it, but just as you suggest people are sneering & being derisory about the uniform, then what are you doing when your slagging off, what is essentially the true Northern Soul Scene, staying true to the cause & not selling out & trying to re write history & the sooner these feckers get bored & piss of & live in thier Soul in the Sun Retirement Homes the better.

The scene is now truly international & will live forever in the hearts & souls of the real faithful.............

Russ

Edited November 30, 2009 by Russ Vickers

[Marc Forrest]

The scene is now truly international & will live forever in the hearts & souls of the real faithful.............

Russ

Amen Russ, you couldn`t have put that any better.

In general I recently had come to the conclusion to stay away from threads like this (or for example that infamous and laughable other thread "Overseas scene, real or just dicking around?") but as it made me so happy I just felt the need to add the following: our Hip City crowd here in Berlin is between 20 and 45 (with one exception making it 63 LOL) but since start of this year we are very happy to have found new regulars in a crowd of young Berlin Mods. I knew from previous talks with them that they are between 16 and 18, this year they already started travelling to Weekenders in Germany, but next year so they told me at the last Hip City they will wider their horizon by travelling to weekenders abroad as well...if that wouldn`t be enough already they even started collecting vinyl now!

This is what its all about. F****g fantastic!

Its 2009 and here we have 16 year old Mods discovering the Rare Soul scene for themselves!

Edited November 30, 2009 by Marc Forrest

[Guest Soultown andy]

Pretty pointless thread now even though there have been some well thought out and passionate posts.Looks like the niter and the oldies only club scene are further apart than ever,oh well what is it mike says.

[Zed1]

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I feel the truth needs to be told. The real Northern Soul scene is gone, its actually been dead for nigh on 10 years. It all started when a group of the undead were brought back to life, their mission to create an exact image of a time long gone, reflecting the best 18 months of their life's, when they had been Soulies keeping the faith. 30 years later, the faith had mysteriously returned, having been lost in an old Addidas hold all under the stairs for all those years. They soon multiplied, bringing back many other lost souls into the family, marching uniformly to their nearest Working Mans club, they could march as it was never more than 15 minutes away from home.

Their initial tactic was smothering those who had survived the barren years of the 80's and 90's with talc bombs and then finally suffocating the remaining survivors with their beer towels, holding up there new leader by the vest straps, spinning him around their heads and crowning them with the exact replica bootleg of Frank Wilson, celebrating by dancing long into the night, well until half past midnight anyway as that's the latest licence the club could get.

Now all thats left is a Matrix type illusion of a Northern scene, with all these alien head quarters based around the country, with a high concentration in East Midlands alleged, there are a few pockets of revolutionaries carrying on, again allegedly as don't want them to be caught, rumour says you need to look for the horses in Wolverhampton (although be careful here, there are already aliens imitating the real thing on some weeks), the smell of old jazz cats in London, and the dodgiest toilets in Stoke, they are out there but they are in danger of being overrun/

It needs to be saved, someone is needed to lead the revolution again, where is your Neo, Is he (or she) among the few remaining survivors of the guerilla Northern Scene who retreated to far off places licking their wounds and caressing carefully their vinyl, but remember nothing is as it seems, the ones wearing the long leather coats this time are likely to be the baddies..............

Cont:

..........but remember nothing is as it seems, the ones wearing the long leather coats and jack boots this time are likely to be the baddies, they lurk unseen in the corner of half empty soul nights, huddled around their record boxes and flasks of bovril, carefully planning their next daring raid on 'Local Soul' to check for issues and vest tops. as we speak their black convertable 6 seater Mercedes staff car is winging it's way to a soul nite near you - it's wing mounted S/S flags fluttering in the breeze as Gruppenfuhrer Ovo and his officers sharpen their chins ready for the forthcoming raid.

The doors of 'Local soul' burst open.... the music stops..... the lights go on... everyone turns to hear S/S Gruppenfuhrer Ovo anounce "WE ARE ZE VINYL POLICE, ZIS IZ A RAID..... FOR YOU ZE SOUL NITE IZ OVER - PLEASE PLACE ANY AND ALL NON ORIGINAL RECORDINGS ON ZE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU!" as he says this his officers surround the club to prevent any DJ's escaping through the toilet window with their 2nd issue box under their arms. Further units of the VP turn up on their bicycles and arrest anyone in possession of a handbag or soul patch.

The following months issue of 'Vinyl and Trainspotter monthly' contained the following report.......

'Officers of the Socialist Republic of Vinyl Police raided an illegal handbag and white sock venue last month and seized a large quantity of free CD's and several pressings..... sadly during this raid 2 Local DJ's were shot while trying to escape - next of kin have been informed.'

Edited November 30, 2009 by Teapot

[Russ Vickers]

Cont:

..........but remember nothing is as it seems, the ones wearing the long leather coats and jack boots this time are likely to be the baddies, they lurk unseen in the corner of half empty soul nights, huddled around their record boxes and flasks of bovril, carefully planning their next daring raid on 'Local Soul' to check for issues and vest tops. as we speak their black convertable 6 seater Mercedes staff car is winging it's way to a soul nite near you - it's wing mounted S/S flags fluttering in the breeze as Gruppenfuhrer Ovo and his officers sharpen their chins ready for the forthcoming raid.

The doors of 'Local soul' burst open.... the music stops..... the lights go on... everyone turns to hear S/S Gruppenfuhrer Ovo anounce "WE ARE ZE VINYL POLICE, ZIS IZ A RAID..... FOR YOU ZE SOUL NITE IZ OVER - PLEASE PLACE ANY AND ALL NON ORIGINAL RECORDINGS ON ZE TABLE IN FRONT OF YOU!" as he says this his officers surround the club to prevent any DJ's escaping through the toilet window with their 2nd issue box under their arms. Further units of the VP turn up on their bicycles and arrest anyone in possession of a handbag or soul patch.

The following months issue of 'Vinyl and Trainspotter monthly' contained the following report.......

'Officers of the Socialist Republic of Vinyl Police raided an illegal handbag and white sock venue last month and seized a large quantity of free CD's and several pressings..... sadly during this raid 2 Local DJ's were shot while trying to escape - next of kin have been informed.'

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz here we go again, the poor hard done by oldies only fans, get with the programme & keep it real FFS.

Russ

[Zed1]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz here we go again, the poor hard done by oldies only fans, get with the programme & keep it real FFS.

Russ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ here we go again, you're only allowed to take the piss out of handbaggers and the oldies crowd on here - anything else of course just isn't funny..

And who said I was an oldies only fan?....

[Paul Shirley]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ here we go again, you're only allowed to take the piss out of handbaggers and the oldies crowd on here - anything else of course just isn't funny..

And who said I was an oldies only fan?....

whats northern soul ? thought all that finished years ago ?

[good angel]

N/Soul, is it still going,bloody hell I will have to get my old baggy trousers out,white belt and vest.

Kev

Some'one has asked me today do they still fit me,the answer is yes if I still had them,the Mrs,says Iam to mean to eat.

Kev

Edited November 30, 2009 by good angel

[Russ Vickers]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ here we go again, you're only allowed to take the piss out of handbaggers and the oldies crowd on here - anything else of course just isn't funny..

And who said I was an oldies only fan?....

You obviously have an opinion, other wise you wouldnt have posted ? & I wasnt taking the piss I'm serious, an oldies only attitude will eventually kill the original ethos of the NS Scene. Anyway, bored of baggy bating now, gonna hunt down some lesser known gems to bore people with, you never know in another 20 years or so, some body might play one of em from a dodgy boot leg & get a massive dance floor reaction down't workies .

Russ

[Zed1]

You obviously have an opinion, other wise you wouldnt have posted ? & I wasnt taking the piss I'm serious, an oldies only attitude will eventually kill the original ethos of the NS Scene. Anyway, bored of baggy bating now, gonna hunt down some lesser known gems to bore people with, you never know in another 20 years or so, some body might play one of em from a dodgy boot leg & get a massive dance floor reaction down't workies .

Russ

YES!, I have an opinion, Russ...... I also have a sense of humour.

I found Jaco's post (which I quoted) Funny as Fook, we've all (myself included) had a good laugh in the past at the expense of the baggies and handbagger crowd, so why not the rest of the scene?...

And Yes, you're quite right Oldies only will kill the future of the scene, BUT they have their place along with the rare, underplayed and modern.

To quote your own siggy, Russ "Lifes is short".....

Edited November 30, 2009 by Teapot

[Eddie Hubbard]

Well I intend to keep attending venues until I'm at least 65 , so that gives me at least another 12 ' ish years .There's a few people younger than me still going, so that should extend the scene for a few years more .I think long term it depends on our offsprings taking up the mantle and embracing the scene , and using Mum or Dad's vinyl no doubt , if we haven't sickened them enough already LOL... I think the scene at the moment newies wise is pretty good , at least there are some venues like USOS , 100 Club , Burnley , Move On ,Lifeline ,Dundee etc that are trying to play something different , ok the attendances aren't always earth shattering but at least some people still care about the original ethos of the scene , to travel crazy distances , meet like minded people and hear records you can't hear anywhere else .Anyway ,would the last person to leave the scene please turn the lights out ....Best wishes ,Eddie

[Russ Vickers]

YES!, I have an opinion, Russ...... I also have a sense of humour.

I found Jaco's post (which I quoted) Funny as Fook, we've all (myself included) had a good laugh in the past at the expense of the baggies and handbagger crowd, so why not the rest of the scene?...

And Yes, you're quite right Oldies only will kill the future of the scene, BUT they have their place along with the rare, underplayed and modern.

To quote your own siggy, Russ "Lifes is short".....

Russ

[Harry Crosby]

Mine do if i put them on UPSIDE DOWN, could just about get the bottoms round my waist

[barney]

You are fecking certifiable & your living in a some nostalgia bubble, you f*uckers will kill the scene, stone dead, I cannot put into words how cringe worthy & embarrassing that is, I would rather sell my records & go to an Abba convention than to have any asscotiation with that vomit inducing bilge you pass off as the'scene'..........i have even had to do a Judas when people have mentioned these type of events, as I do not want to be asscotiated with it what so ever.

I want to scream at you WHY, why do you wanna hear the same records, wear daft clothes & worst still, tell anyone who will listen that what you guys do is the real scene, well your wrong. The real scene is the truly underground scene, it was, has been & always will be, 1977 first Nighter & still going strong without a break...........what you are suggesting is the scene could not be further away, there are Soulies turning in thier graves at what you suggest. I cant tell you how wrong you are, the scene is about finding & exposing new & undiscovered soul/dance records to a wider dancing audience, that is the whole point of it, there are some fantastic under played oldies & rareities out there, that we all enjoy hearing now & again too, mix the whole lot up..............

I'm not suggesting dont do what you do if you enjoy it, but just as you suggest people are sneering & being derisory about the uniform, then what are you doing when your slagging off, what is essentially the true Northern Soul Scene, staying true to the cause & not selling out & trying to re write history & the sooner these feckers get bored & piss of & live in thier Soul in the Sun Retirement Homes the better.

The scene is now truly international & will live forever in the hearts & souls of the real faithful.............

Russ

thanks for your reasonably considered much understated post my friend

maybe thats why some of us dont want to move on and turn into spitefull foul mouthed fundamentalists

[Chalky]

thanks for your tongue in cheek post but the venue I attended last night in n/notts maybe one of your soul nights but people in uniform or normal were prepared to travel from peterborough stockport goole barnsley no chance of doing that on shank,s pony

but the venue you attended isn't the future of the scene, its a totally retro look back full of like minded people wanting it to be as it was at Wigan. The venues in the midlands are no better than the venues on the rock and roll scene with everyone living in the past. Nothing wrong with that each to their own and if thats what you enjoy who am I or anyone else to complain, but there is another scene out there, totally different to the backward looking scene that is found in the majority of midlands venues. I love oldies, many will never be bettered and many newies aren't as good but that doesn't mean I want to hear the same records week in week out with DJ's (so called by themselves) Djing for themselves at their own venues and for their mates. Look at the DJ line up at many Midlands venues, there is no one from outside the area, each djing for each other!!!

[Ian Parker]

well said Barney !!

offensive and pathetic is how i would have put it. As others have said, the 'knockers' take the piss constantly out of the 'oldies' scene, but not ONCE are the comments reversed. but as you saw yourself on sat night, they can take the piss all they want. i'd rather go to a busy oldies night than a chin stroking event.

there are more to oldies than the 'top 500' . without name dropping here,, anyone of the 'upfront/up their own backside/up my jacksie brigade, tell Ian Gee he is killing the scene. his records NEVER fail to amaze and impress me every single time i go to a venue and he is DJ'ing. Ridiculously rare and fabulous records that in no uncertain terms - "keep us interested"

so piss off all you weasels and stick to your own little 'walter mitty' worlds and let those who want to (baggies or not) enjoy the classic NORTHERN SOUL we grew up with and will never grow out of

as for me, it'll be over when I decide, not when some jumped up fool decides

IAN

[Guest proudlove]

well said Barney !!

offensive and pathetic is how i would have put it. As others have said, the 'knockers' take the piss constantly out of the 'oldies' scene, but not ONCE are the comments reversed. but as you saw yourself on sat night, they can take the piss all they want. i'd rather go to a busy oldies night than a chin stroking event.

there are more to oldies than the 'top 500' . without name dropping here,, anyone of the 'upfront/up their own backside/up my jacksie brigade, tell Ian Gee he is killing the scene. his records NEVER fail to amaze and impress me every single time i go to a venue and he is DJ'ing. Ridiculously rare and fabulous records that in no uncertain terms - "keep us interested"

so piss off all you weasels and stick to your own little 'walter mitty' worlds and let those who want to (baggies or not) enjoy the classic NORTHERN SOUL we grew up with and will never grow out of

as for me, it'll be over when I decide, not when some jumped up fool decides

IAN

What a good post mate..............110% AGREE---------------------(Still don,t like baggies and vests,but thats just MY opinion)

Steve

[Chalky]

well said Barney !!

offensive and pathetic is how i would have put it. As others have said, the 'knockers' take the piss constantly out of the 'oldies' scene, but not ONCE are the comments reversed. but as you saw yourself on sat night, they can take the piss all they want. i'd rather go to a busy oldies night than a chin stroking event.

there are more to oldies than the 'top 500' . without name dropping here,, anyone of the 'upfront/up their own backside/up my jacksie brigade, tell Ian Gee he is killing the scene. his records NEVER fail to amaze and impress me every single time i go to a venue and he is DJ'ing. Ridiculously rare and fabulous records that in no uncertain terms - "keep us interested"

so piss off all you weasels and stick to your own little 'walter mitty' worlds and let those who want to (baggies or not) enjoy the classic NORTHERN SOUL we grew up with and will never grow out of

as for me, it'll be over when I decide, not when some jumped up fool decides

IAN

weasels who?

offensive and pathetic, you should read your post.

I wouldn't listen to many of the midland s DJ's if they were on the garden, they are boring, nothing to interest me at all, playing the same stuff that we've been listening to for years and years.

please name drop the "more to the top 500", lets see just how interesting it is? give me some examples of these rare and fabulous records by Ian and others that keep the Midlands scene interesting, cause it's been far from that when I've attended venues down there. I used to go all over the Midlands at one time when I lived in Chesterfield but as certain promoters and DJ's got a foothold it became really boring, so boring I would sooner stop in than go to a venue 20 minutes away. So please give us some examples, you never know it might convert some of us back to the oldies nights if it's that interesting.

I help with one of the chin stroking events you mention but all I see when there is over three hundred soulies packing out the venue enjoying themselves and hardly a baggy pair of trousers or ridiculous circle skirt to be seen.

And I didn't see any so called jumped up fool deciding when it will be over for you?

Edited November 30, 2009 by chalky

[Bazza]

Whats up with you lot ,Northern soul died around 1974,old folks disco's since then

Bazza

[barney]

but the venue you attended isn't the future of the scene, its a totally retro look back full of like minded people wanting it to be as it was at Wigan. The venues in the midlands are no better than the venues on the rock and roll scene with everyone living in the past. Nothing wrong with that each to their own and if thats what you enjoy who am I or anyone else to complain, but there is another scene out there, totally different to the backward looking scene that is found in the majority of midlands venues. I love oldies, many will never be bettered and many newies aren't as good but that doesn't mean I want to hear the same records week in week out with DJ's (so called by themselves) Djing for themselves at their own venues and for their mates. Look at the DJ line up at many Midlands venues, there is no one from outside the area, each djing for each other!!!

chalky

I do go to different venues and go into the rare and underplayed rooms and for me a lot of the music played doesnt do it for me and am not going to namedrop but hear certain dj,s go on about a track describing it as the latest monster blah blah went down a bomb at blah blah and then they play it and angie and me look at each other and my close friends say wot the f**k is this and its dire , now and again we hear new sounds and yes we like them,

though we havent met chalky I have quite a few friends who dj and some are well known and they will tell me about a track or play it and sometimes one can telll right away if its ok, but am sorry the constant quest for new sounds is diluting the essence of what I consider northern soul. and with the armies of dj,s out there all competing to have the latest newy this in my opinion is putting quantity before quality and its not the punters who are the main consideration but the competition between dj,s , and venues to play these records

as for the clothes each to their own but think the baggys uniform looks great on some and like to see it at venues and the people who wear it are no different from me or you.. talk to them they are really friendly

[Chalky]

chalky

I do go to different venues and go into the rare and underplayed rooms and for me a lot of the music played doesnt do it for me and am not going to namedrop but hear certain dj,s go on about a track describing it as the latest monster blah blah went down a bomb at blah blah and then they play it and angie and me look at each other and my close friends say wot the f**k is this and its dire , now and again we hear new sounds and yes we like them,

though we havent met chalky I have quite a few friends who dj and some are well known and they will tell me about a track or play it and sometimes one can telll right away if its ok, but am sorry the constant quest for new sounds is diluting the essence of what I consider northern soul. and with the armies of dj,s out there all competing to have the latest newy this in my opinion is putting quantity before quality and its not the punters who are the main consideration but the competition between dj,s , and venues to play these records

as for the clothes each to their own but think the baggys uniform looks great on some and like to see it at venues and the people who wear it are no different from me or you.. talk to them they are really friendly

I have plenty of friends who wear the baggies, their choice and if thats what they like to wear, like I said who am I to complain, they are cringe worthy though, the clothes that is not the mates

There aren't that many chasing newies mate, there are only a few who can chase and turn them up, can probably count them on one hand. In fact even the top newies DJ's will be the first to admit that the records are not there to be found anymore. Thats not to say that thye aren't turning up, just not that many and over a longer period of time. But there are decent upfront venues out there, if you travel as far as you say then travel to Lifeline, about an hour and three quarters from Barnsley (where I djed regularly at the Tracky Club btw), or maybe USOS, about the same distance. Give the Wilton a try, just up the road from you. There are venues that do play dancers you don't hear every week. Not all are insipid crossover and mid tempo, I don't even want to hear that at a night out, I want to hear dancers.

There are hundreds and hundreds of records the returnee brigade missed out on just waiting to be rediscovered if only they were given the chance.

[barney]

I have plenty of friends who wear the baggies, their choice and if thats what they like to wear, like I said who am I to complain, they are cringe worthy though, the clothes that is not the mates

There aren't that many chasing newies mate, there are only a few who can chase and turn them up, can probably count them on one hand. In fact even the top newies DJ's will be the first to admit that the records are not there to be found anymore. Thats not to say that thye aren't turning up, just not that many and over a longer period of time. But there are decent upfront venues out there, if you travel as far as you say then travel to Lifeline, about an hour and three quarters from Barnsley (where I djed regularly at the Tracky Club btw), or maybe USOS, about the same distance. Give the Wilton a try, just up the road from you. There are venues that do play dancers you don't hear every week. Not all are insipid crossover and mid tempo, I don't even want to hear that at a night out, I want to hear dancers.

There are hundreds and hundreds of records the returnee brigade missed out on just waiting to be rediscovered if only they were given the chance.

will clear this point up when I says newys I also mean the latest rediscovery as well

for my sins am in injun country next saturday the monaco ballroom please dont say thats a crap oldies venue as well

Edited November 30, 2009 by barney

[Guest Bearsy]

im only 41 and only been on the scene for 5 years and now it looks like the end is nigh and i havent even got a pair of baggies made to fit yet

imho, when i first experienced the scene i was more taken in by the dancing and the clothes worn by soulies but once i actually started to get the scene i realised its about the music and music only wtf has clothes got to do with it anyway

all the time i have a hole in my arse the music will live on thats a promise

[barney]

ok at a recent well known soul venue not in yorks or notts asked a well known n/west dj reknowned for his rare and underplayed music

to play baby by ellie greenwich

he had never heard of it

wont embarass him on here but

[Russ Vickers]

well said Barney !!

offensive and pathetic is how i would have put it. As others have said, the 'knockers' take the piss constantly out of the 'oldies' scene, but not ONCE are the comments reversed. but as you saw yourself on sat night, they can take the piss all they want. i'd rather go to a busy oldies night than a chin stroking event.

there are more to oldies than the 'top 500' . without name dropping here,, anyone of the 'upfront/up their own backside/up my jacksie brigade, tell Ian Gee he is killing the scene. his records NEVER fail to amaze and impress me every single time i go to a venue and he is DJ'ing. Ridiculously rare and fabulous records that in no uncertain terms - "keep us interested"

so piss off all you weasels and stick to your own little 'walter mitty' worlds and let those who want to (baggies or not) enjoy the classic NORTHERN SOUL we grew up with and will never grow out of

as for me, it'll be over when I decide, not when some jumped up fool decides

IAN

Ian, I dont think that you are quite getting the point, the whole ethos of the NS scene is to discover new records, by not advocating this, its already dead. My comments were made in defense of what is actually the real scene, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, nostalgia type events are not a true reflection of what the essence of NS was & is about. I understand that if folk wanna do this, fine, its up to them, if they wanna wear fancy dress whilst doing it, then thats fine too, each to thier own, what ever makes them happy........the point is, for the scene to be true to its original origins the search for new & interesting records must continue & thank god there are promoters & DJ's who still hold these sentiments close to thier heart. I dont dislike oldies, they are part of the scene, they have thier place & i would say any Nighter should have an element of credible oldies mixed in with everything else, after all, almost all the records being played, even at the more progressive venues have had plays else where over the years...........you have to remember that even the most popular oldies were newies once & some like me & many, many others expected almost every record to be a newie or recent discovery, although you had to support them & dance. Some records considered classics now, cleared dance floors when first played & people like myself, by dancing & requesting them & DJ's that truly beleived in the records, as well as the promoters who supported the policy are to be applauded, the scene was based on new discoveries, thats why i find it hard to understand why folk have seemed to have forgotten this, its very frustrating & i cant work it out.........I am passionate about my soul music & will defend the 'real' scene to the end & I am right, because long before i started to attend Allnighters the scene was set, i havnt just made this up myself you know. Why have people forgotten or choose to ignore this & that is spose to be an intelligent question, so if some one can give me an intelligent answer i would be very pleased. BTW For the record, i enjoy listening to oldies as much if not more than most, i love em, but i wanna still feel the excitment of hearing a record played out for the first time & getting behind it, requesting it & seeing it turn into a classic hopefully, sensible DJ's then rest em for a few years & bring em back as quality underplayed oldies................i feel i may be wasting my time here, but it would be nice even if someone could acknowledge that what i am saying here is true even if they dont agree............

Russ

Edited November 30, 2009 by Russ Vickers

[barney]

Ian, I dont think that you are quite getting the point, the whole ethos of the NS scene is to discover new records, by not advocating this, its already dead. My comments were made in defense of what is actually the real scene, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, nostalgia type events are not a true reflection of what the essence of NS was & is about. I understand that if folk wanna do this, fine, its up to them, if they wanna wear fancy dress whilst doing it, then thats fine too, each to thier own, what ever makes them happy........the point is, for the scene to be true to its original origins the search for new & interesting records must continue & thank god there are promoters & DJ's who still hold these sentiments close to thier heart. I dont dislike oldies, they are part of the scene, they have thier place & i would say any Nighter should have an element of credible oldies mixed in with everything else, after all, almost all the records being played, even at the more progressive venues have had plays else where over the years...........you have to remember that even the most popular oldies were newies once & some like me & many, many others expected almost every record to be a newie or recent discovery, although you had to support them & dance. Some records considered classics now, cleared dance floors when first played & people like myself, by dancing & requesting them & DJ's that truly beleived in the records, as well as the promoters who supported the policy are to be applauded, the scene was based on new discoveries, thats why i find it hard to understand why folk have seemed to have forgotten this, its very frustrating & i cant work it out.........I am passionate about my soul music & will defend the 'real' scene to the end & I am right, because long before i started to attend Allnighters the scene was set, i havnt just made this up myself you know. Why have people forgotten or choose to ignore this & that is spose to be an intelligent question, so if some one can give me an intelligent answer i would be very pleased. BTW For the record, i enjoy listening to oldies as much if not more than most, i love em, but i wanna still feel the excitment of hearing a record played out for the first time & getting behind it, requesting it & seeing it turn into a classic hopefully, sensible DJ's then rest em for a few years & bring em back as quality underplayed oldies................i feel i may be wasting my time here, but it would be nice even if someone could acknowledge that what i am saying here is true even if they dont agree............

Russ

ok russ can agree with you up to a point , but can I ask

why do you say fancy dress

you state

am passionate about my soul music and will defend the real scene to the end and I am right

who says you are right

so the many 100,s if not 1000,s who go to classic oldies nights every week are wrong and not real

you say

I wanna still feel the excitement of hearing a record played out for the first time etc

does this apply to all records heard for the first time or have you some discretion

[Guest proudlove]

Ian, I dont think that you are quite getting the point, the whole ethos of the NS scene is to discover new records, by not advocating this, its already dead. My comments were made in defense of what is actually the real scene, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, nostalgia type events are not a true reflection of what the essence of NS was & is about. I understand that if folk wanna do this, fine, its up to them, if they wanna wear fancy dress whilst doing it, then thats fine too, each to thier own, what ever makes them happy........the point is, for the scene to be true to its original origins the search for new & interesting records must continue & thank god there are promoters & DJ's who still hold these sentiments close to thier heart. I dont dislike oldies, they are part of the scene, they have thier place & i would say any Nighter should have an element of credible oldies mixed in with everything else, after all, almost all the records being played, even at the more progressive venues have had plays else where over the years...........you have to remember that even the most popular oldies were newies once & some like me & many, many others expected almost every record to be a newie or recent discovery, although you had to support them & dance. Some records considered classics now, cleared dance floors when first played & people like myself, by dancing & requesting them & DJ's that truly beleived in the records, as well as the promoters who supported the policy are to be applauded, the scene was based on new discoveries, thats why i find it hard to understand why folk have seemed to have forgotten this, its very frustrating & i cant work it out.........I am passionate about my soul music & will defend the 'real' scene to the end & I am right, because long before i started to attend Allnighters the scene was set, i havnt just made this up myself you know. Why have people forgotten or choose to ignore this & that is spose to be an intelligent question, so if some one can give me an intelligent answer i would be very pleased. BTW For the record, i enjoy listening to oldies as much if not more than most, i love em, but i wanna still feel the excitment of hearing a record played out for the first time & getting behind & requesting it & seeing it turn into a classic hopefully, sensible DJ's then rest em for a few years & bring em back as quality underplayed oldies................i feel i may be wasting my time here, but it would be nice even if someone could acknowledge that what i am saying here is true even if they dont agree............

Russ

Russ ,coming at this from a different angle,yes "The Scene" was/is about the music.But it was a lot more than that.It was about the people,the little clubs(and they were little)that played fantastic upbeat dance music,soul music yes,but dance music first and foremost,but also the drugs,the buzz and ,yes the fear(there was some serious characters about )the friendship,the nutters,the nicked cars,the chemists,the dancers,the watchers ---------I could go on and on--------just wait for Swishes book to give you a real idea of what went on---------What we have now is a desperate need to find the Holy Grail-----but people are coming up with a Tesco glass.Compare the music from The Wheel/Torch /Junction ETC with what is being played out at times now and there is no comparison (remember upbeat dance music).

If you are talking about rare soul then thats a different matter,but I would ask why is that track rare,is it because it only appeals to a small number of people?I don,t know.

What I do know is that I have heard tracks that are supposed to be rare /underplayed/crossover /whatever that I wouldn't make an ashtray out of.

I have walked into rooms at All nighters where they are playing Salsa-------if I want to hear that I will watch Strictly Come Dancing.I have walked into rooms and heared stuff that sounds like piss poor b sides,almost like being forced to listen to Morrissey.(Suicide,I would help the tw*t)

And that is part of the problem,because at times you will get "collectors"playing sets to anoraks(a bit like your analogy about the Midlands)that are just plain boring.(Remember upbeat dance music).

Yes you will get the nostalgia freaks who want to capture that "moment in time"but there was a lot before that ,and a lot after that that never gets played,that is a million times better than a lot af the stuff that gets played out now.Anyway I'm starting to waffle so over to you.

Steve

[Mark Bicknell]

Magic.

[barney]

Russ ,coming at this from a different angle,yes "The Scene" was/is about the music.But it was a lot more than that.It was about the people,the little clubs(and they were little)that played fantastic upbeat dance music,soul music yes,but dance music first and foremost,but also the drugs,the buzz and ,yes the fear(there was some serious characters about )the friendship,the nutters,the nicked cars,the chemists,the dancers,the watchers ---------I could go on and on--------just wait for Swishes book to give you a real idea of what went on---------What we have now is a desperate need to find the Holy Grail-----but people are coming up with a Tesco glass.Compare the music from The Wheel/Torch /Junction ETC with what is being played out at times now and there is no comparison (remember upbeat dance music).

If you are talking about rare soul then thats a different matter,but I would ask why is that track rare,is it because it only appeals to a small number of people?I don,t know.

What I do know is that I have heard tracks that are supposed to be rare /underplayed/crossover /whatever that I wouldn't make an ashtray out of.

I have walked into rooms at All nighters where they are playing Salsa-------if I want to hear that I will watch Strictly Come Dancing.I have walked into rooms and heared stuff that sounds like piss poor b sides,almost like being forced to listen to Morrissey.(Suicide,I would help the tw*t)

And that is part of the problem,because at times you will get "collectors"playing sets to anoraks(a bit like your analogy about the Midlands)that are just plain boring.(Remember upbeat dance music).

Yes you will get the nostalgia freaks who want to capture that "moment in time"but there was a lot before that ,and a lot after that that never gets played,that is a million times better than a lot af the stuff that gets played out now.Anyway I'm starting to waffle so over to you.

Steve

thanks steve great post

[Dave Moore]

Russ!...take that worm out you mouth yer loony!! :thumbup:

You'll never learn!

[Mark Bicknell]

Keep de faith you are welcome to it.

[Zed1]

Magic.

Nice picture, Mark - but whats John Terry got to do with this thread?.