J.d. Bryant On Shrine Estate Find In Usa

[Corbett80]

It starts with a crescendo for flip's sake....you get the falsetto lead and yo think it can't get any better, then when the second vocal comes in its game over. Plus its got one of the eeriest backing tracks ever committed to vinyl.

There, i've started, someone else finish

[macca]

I'd describe the Prophets record as odd, if anything. Musically, it seems to defy the premise that simple is best 'cos there's all sorts of stuff going on in there and it sounds as if each musician is reading from a different chart. The vocals are stunning though, and it makes you wonder how many run throughs they had to get that sound. It's certainly the kind of record that would have pricked my ears up years back. Reminds me of stuff by the esquires, but more 'cluttered'.

[Sheldonsoul]

never heard the prophets till this thread prefer it to jd bryant

[Guest Byrney]

Thanks Matt. I stand corrected: it's nice to hear the 45 at close quarters, even through weedy PC speakers.

I think there are three distinct mixes: this one (lots of echo on the falsetto lead vocal from about half way through); the mix used on the Kent Shrine compilation CD and the mix used on the Horace's vinyl LP which (to my ears) sounds quite different again. Am I right in thinking that the latter was done from the unmixed master tape by Eddie Singleton himself before a copy of the 45 actually resurfaced? Perhaps Ady C. or Andy Rix can enlighten us.

I don't have the facility to upload soundfiles but it might be instructive if someone could kindly upload the versions from both 'Capitol Soul Volume 2' on Horace's and the Kent Shrine CD.

I must say I prefer the Horace's mix, but this may be a case of it being the first way I heard the tune. Whatever, to me it's one of the single greatest harmony Northern records bar none. Those who knock Shrine as a label misunderstand its appeal I think.

Here's another Mix, the first I heard at the 100 club, think it was Butch and it felt like I'd been kicked in the chest. Awesome, awesome group harmony sound.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Byrney

[Chalky]

there is also an instrumental version with some male harmony in the background and an acappella version of the Prophets - One Gold Piece.....magic stuff.

To say the label is shite is a bit of an overstatement, true there are some average tracks on it but there are also some of the best northern recorded as well IMHO. JD Bryant is in my all time top ten, Ray Pollard, Sidney Hall, Cautions etc top drawer!!!

Edited November 28, 2009 by chalky

[NEV]

Fair point and I agree to an extent. The rarity and that kudos of owning something which nobody, or only a handful of others possess, have always been an integral part of the Northern scene. The problem I have with this area of collecting is how it affects the price of everything else. The higher the big rarities go, the higher the general price of records has risen, to the point where we now have 100s of records which used to be obtainable for 20 or so, selling at £100 every time a dealer gets hold of one. There are no more or less of these records around and a lot of people have copies of them, they simply bought them at an earlier point before the prices inflated.

As for Shrine itself, personally I think the records are somewhat overrated, somebody has said JD BRYANT would sound great up loud at a Niter, but it depends on where you place the barometer of 'great'....

Nothing on the label (In my opinion) comes close to touching something from Motown like SPINNERS 'I'll always love you', which remains a 20 quid odd record, but as a piece of 60S dance soul, eptimomises perfection. (Melody, production, vocals, lyrics etc).

The price of records that are genuinely rare doesn't push up the price of other records.

What pushes up the price of not so rare records is people witn no imagination of theire own.

For example ... a well known record that's been around for yrs but has been long forgotten .....a well known dj plays it to a crowd of people ..who gasp ..WOW ,havent heard that for ages ,did'nt it sound great!

Then a mass stampede of people in search of said record......all copies in the hands of unsuspecting dealers get snapped up quickly ....then its onto ebay for any other copies ...desperate people outbidding each other like crazy .....for that must have latest dare i say it "BUTCH SPIN" ...and finally the cat is well and truly out of the bag and someone decides to send a copy to John Manship auction

LEE FIELDS .....FRANKIE CORKER(yes i know i spelt it wrong ) ...RING ANY BELLS

[KevH]

The price of records that are genuinely rare doesn't push up the price of other records.

What pushes up the price of not so rare records is people witn no imagination of theire own.

For example ... a well known record that's been around for yrs but has been long forgotten .....a well known dj plays it to a crowd of people ..who gasp ..WOW ,havent heard that for ages ,did'nt it sound great!

Then a mass stampede of people in search of said record......all copies in the hands of unsuspecting dealers get snapped up quickly ....then its onto ebay for any other copies ...desperate people outbidding each other like crazy .....for that must have latest dare i say it "BUTCH SPIN" ...and finally the cat is well and truly out of the bag and someone decides to send a copy to John Manship auction

LEE FIELDS .....FRANKIE CORKER(yes i know i spelt it wrong ) ...RING ANY BELLS

Got to try and read what's up and coming,or pay the price.The "Butch Syndrome" applies to lots of quality DJ's.They play it ,it sounds f**ing brilliant - Joe Bloggs plays it,,,,,you can here the wind whistling.

How does that happen?? .btw there's not a bad record on Shrine imo.

[Marc Forrest]

"In this world of ups & downs

My dreams all fall through

Things just don't work out

No matter what I do

Disappointment haunts me

Through each lonely day

The world around I see

In only shades of gray"

...so we are talking about Shrine here on...wait, whats it called again...ah, right, soul-source ? One hell of a legendary label and 99 % of its output is fantastic example of mid 60s Washington Soul with JD Bryant, The Counts and Prophets leading the way...IMVHO.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Marc Forrest

[De-to]

..and if that is the final price then any UK based buyer will also owe Mr Darling the Chancellor a cool £831.25p (at 17.5% VAT)

I can't see this entering the UK marked '$10 gift'!!!

correct import tax and e-bay fees etc for the four 45s,wow,

[Ian Parker]

is there an audio clip of the JD Bryant tune ?

IAN

[De-to]

yes follow his/her link to e-bore link to youtube plays the whole brilliant tune and its on a record deck you can see the label etc but no e-bore link to the cairos i think,ooh heres the youtube link, quality imo,!!!

[Ted Massey]

is there an audio clip of the JD Bryant tune ?

IAN

here you go would put up mine but dont want to wear it out In fact the recording on the shrine album is from my copy cause Eddie Singleton did not have any master tapes of it

https://www.soul-sour...0d%20bryant/%20

Edited November 28, 2009 by Tedsoul

[KevH]

is there an audio clip of the JD Bryant tune ?

IAN

You could have heard it live twice this year at the Attic,eh Ted?

[Guest]

The price of records that are genuinely rare doesn't push up the price of other records.

What pushes up the price of not so rare records is people witn no imagination of theire own.

For example ... a well known record that's been around for yrs but has been long forgotten .....a well known dj plays it to a crowd of people ..who gasp ..WOW ,havent heard that for ages ,did'nt it sound great!

Then a mass stampede of people in search of said record......all copies in the hands of unsuspecting dealers get snapped up quickly ....then its onto ebay for any other copies ...desperate people outbidding each other like crazy .....for that must have latest dare i say it "BUTCH SPIN" ...and finally the cat is well and truly out of the bag and someone decides to send a copy to John Manship auction

LEE FIELDS .....FRANKIE CORKER(yes i know i spelt it wrong ) ...RING ANY BELLS

That's an amazingly convienant and simplistic way of reversing the prices of records onto the responsibilities of punters. It's also bollocks in my opinion.

[foolish fool]

Nothing on the label (In my opinion) comes close to touching something from Motown like SPINNERS 'I'll always love you', which remains a 20 quid odd record, but as a piece of 60S dance soul, eptimomises perfection. (Melody, production, vocals, lyrics etc).

AGREE WITH THIS. IF ALL THE SHRINE DISCS WERE AROUND IN MULTIPLES AND WERE CHEAP, MOST PEOPLE WOULDN'T GIVE EM A SECOND LISTEN.

BACK TO THREAD, THINK JD WILL GO FOR 4,800 QUID.

BRI PINCH.

TOP OF THE STAIRS, BLAH BAR, BARNSLEY, SAT 28TH NOV.

SUNDAY CHILLOUT @ HORSE AND GROOM, 13TH DEC, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER.

[Ted Massey]

You could have heard it live twice this year at the Attic,eh Ted?

to right kev and at the Crofton and soon at the Wilton and Bentick soory cant be with you saturday sincere apologies

[Dave Rimmer]

..and if that is the final price then any UK based buyer will also owe Mr Darling the Chancellor a cool £831.25p (at 17.5% VAT)

I can't see this entering the UK marked '$10 gift'!!!

Cheaper to fly out and collect them !

[Dave Moore]

Cheaper to fly out and collect them !

I actually did this once on a small but valuable buy. Worth every penny. Saved 800 UKP.

[Sheldonsoul]

..and if that is the final price then any UK based buyer will also owe Mr Darling the Chancellor a cool £831.25p (at 17.5% VAT)

I can't see this entering the UK marked '$10 gift'!!!

do you honestly have to pay tax on it if you win

[Dave Moore]

Went for approx 6200UKP. If the buyer gets stung at Customs and Excise for the full whack that's another 1050 making a possible cost of 7250. If buyer is from UK, I'd fly out and pick it up. Be cheaper and less risky.

[Guest DeeJay]

Another record I think is brilliant but hasn't got a mention is "I Don't Want To Be A Fall Guy"Im not sure that this came out on 45 Can't remember who it's by Is it another Cautions choon .Did it come out on 45

DJ

[Marc Forrest]

And only seven bucks below last years final result.

[Boogaloo]

Top two bids went for over $10,000 and the third bid for only $6500. So the 2nd bidder cost the winner $3500. Now that I'd be really p****d off about .

[Guest Netspeaky]

Another record I think is brilliant but hasn't got a mention is "I Don't Want To Be A Fall Guy"Im not sure that this came out on 45 Can't remember who it's by Is it another Cautions choon .Did it come out on 45

DJ

Fall Guy un-issued Cap City????????? or Shrine?????????? came out on a UK Shrine 45 (Tim Brown)

[Sheldonsoul]

Went for approx 6200UKP. If the buyer gets stung at Customs and Excise for the full whack that's another 1050 making a possible cost of 7250. If buyer is from UK, I'd fly out and pick it up. Be cheaper and less risky.

without sounding niave, do you honestly have to pay tax on it

[Tabs]

Yes- section 2.2 on the limk.

And it's being applied more and more.

https://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document#P36_3279

without sounding niave, do you honestly have to pay tax on it

[Guest Bearsy]

Top two bids went for over $10,000 and the third bid for only $6500. So the 2nd bidder cost the winner $3500. Now that I'd be really p****d off about .

not pissed off one little bit Warren

[Sheldonsoul]

Yes- section 2.2 on the limk.

And it's being applied more and more.

https://customs.hmrc....cument#P36_3279

thats harsh what happens if you paid a mega 6 grand for a tune and didnt know about the tax side of it, having to pay another grand on top. id be well gutted

[Tabs]

Thats why its cheaper to collect and then get a receipt for any old record for a couple of dollars.

I'm flying out tomorrow.

thats harsh what happens if you paid a mega 6 grand for a tune and didnt know about the tax side of it, having to pay another grand on top. id be well gutted

[Boogaloo]

not pissed off one little bit Warren

You could buy the whole of the Gillingham midfield for that and still have change for a fish supper couple of Gene Toones.

[Guest Bearsy]

You could buy the whole of the Gillingham midfield for that and still have change for a fish supper couple of Gene Toones.

you could buy the whole of Gillingham never mind the midfield

[Guest Dave Turner]

another good one on the label. One of my fave's

https://www.youtube.c...h?v=1TP6ZPth0GI

Personally I'm not keen on JDB, just not my kinda sound. Not saying it's a bad track as obviously a lot of folks love it, but it's just not for me. However the above track I think is a cracker (IMO of course).

As in all collecting fields whether it's records, coins, stamps, books or in fact anything all "serious" collectors desire to have what their fellow collectors don't (yet) have. It is the collectors mind set.

Whether it's a good track or not isn't what commands the price. Only two things I feel command price, collectors' desirability or investment potential.

As a listener there are only a few Shrine tracks I'd like but if I were a "serious money" collector then I'd want the lot.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Dave Turner

[Guest]

IF ALL THE SHRINE DISCS WERE AROUND IN MULTIPLES AND WERE CHEAP, MOST PEOPLE WOULDN'T GIVE EM A SECOND LISTEN.

BRI PINCH.

TOP OF THE STAIRS, BLAH BAR, BARNSLEY, SAT 28TH NOV.

SUNDAY CHILLOUT @ HORSE AND GROOM, 13TH DEC, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER.

[Guest sean daniels]

People might not like it, but I think that is the truest sentence on this thread. Some of them are not bad, but in a really serious assessment of creative quality, Shrine falls a whole planet behind labels like Motown, Soul, Brunswick, Mirwood, Okeh and heaps of others.

JD BRYANT or 'Oh my darling'? No comparison as a niter sound. Fook me, try it this way, how much would a truly great record like that be worth if there were only 5 copies? A shitlot more than JD BRYANT'S price, in my view, so there is the giveaway.

Some people like JD, some people dislike it, some people are indifferent. If that JACKIE LEE track was discovered today, show me one Northern Soul fan who would not immediately hail it as a stunningly brilliant Northern record?

[Guest]

People might not like it, but I think that is the truest sentence on this thread. Some of them are not bad, but in a really serious assessment of creative quality, Shrine falls a whole planet behind labels like Motown, Soul, Brunswick, Mirwood, Okeh and heaps of others.

JD BRYANT or 'Oh my darling'? No comparison as a niter sound. Fook me, try it this way, how much would a truly great record like that be worth if there were only 5 copies? A shitlot more than JD BRYANT'S price, in my view, so there is the giveaway.

Some people like JD, some people dislike it, some people are indifferent. If that JACKIE LEE track was discovered today, show me one Northern Soul fan who would not immediately hail it as a stunningly brilliant Northern record?

On that note I bid you goodnight fella's . . . . . (Jackie Lee f##k me........)

Edited December 1, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Benji]

People might not like it, but I think that is the truest sentence on this thread. Some of them are not bad, but in a really serious assessment of creative quality, Shrine falls a whole planet behind labels like Motown, Soul, Brunswick, Mirwood, Okeh and heaps of others.

JD BRYANT or 'Oh my darling'? No comparison as a niter sound. Fook me, try it this way, how much would a truly great record like that be worth if there were only 5 copies? A shitlot more than JD BRYANT'S price, in my view, so there is the giveaway.

Some people like JD, some people dislike it, some people are indifferent. If that JACKIE LEE track was discovered today, show me one Northern Soul fan who would not immediately hail it as a stunningly brilliant Northern record?

JD Bryant is a truly great song, wonderful production, good lyrics and matching vocals. The ambitious yet still rather amateurish approach adds a lot of charm to it. That approach doesn't work on all Shrine productions mind! Jackie Lee is a crap song. Average vocals on a song that doesn't really go anywhere. When I heard either song for the first time I didn't know how dear they were or what label they were released on. I only judge by the musical quality and JD Bryant sure is the winner.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Benji

[Pete S]

On that note I bid you goodnight fella's . . . . . (Jackie Lee f##k me........)

Goodnight to you too. Don't quite get your little 'jackie Lee, fuck me' pop, but in fact I think you've done me a favour by showing just where the rarity thing does become complete anal bollocks. Just a very simple example of an acknowledged all-time northern classic that pisses over JD BRYANT in every department except there are a few thousand copies knocking about. That's all. Fook me.....

[boba]

Goodnight to you too. Don't quite get your little 'jackie Lee, fuck me' pop, but in fact I think you've done me a favour by showing just where the rarity thing does become complete anal bollocks. Just a very simple example of an acknowledged all-time northern classic that pisses over JD BRYANT in every department except there are a few thousand copies knocking about. That's all. Fook me.....

I'm afraid I disagree with you as well, and with the statement that if Shrine records were cheap nobody would want them. The majority are mini-masterpieces and I'd take JD Bryant, Eddie Daye, Shirley Edwards, Epsilons I'm So Devoted, Sidney hall etc over jackie lee any time of the day.

[Guest]

I'm afraid I disagree with you as well, and with the statement that if Shrine records were cheap nobody would want them. The majority are mini-masterpieces and I'd take JD Bryant, Eddie Daye, Shirley Edwards, Epsilons I'm So Devoted, Sidney hall etc over jackie lee any time of the day.

i think the jd bryant record is just okay (it's pretty good) but most of the shrine group records are fantastic productions with fantastic harmony and well written songs. i feel sorry for the people who can only appreciate titles for their rarity or only backlash against them due to their desirability. one of the best titles is maybe the epsilons, the least rare on the label, it probably is the least rare because it was such a great song it was a hit. and the cautions, enjoyables, cairos, sydney hall, four bars, dc blossoms, and prophets are all fantastic. I also like the cavaliers tighten up. the rest are just okay for me and some are sort of crappy but overall a very strong label, rare or not.

Edited December 1, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

This system is not working correctly for me, it's attributing quotes to the wrong people. Anyone got any idea why?

[Pete S]

i think the jd bryant record is just okay (it's pretty good) but most of the shrine group records are fantastic productions with fantastic harmony and well written songs. i feel sorry for the people who can only appreciate titles for their rarity or only backlash against them due to their desirability. one of the best titles is maybe the epsilons, the least rare on the label, it probably is the least rare because it was such a great song it was a hit. and the cautions, enjoyables, cairos, sydney hall, four bars, dc blossoms, and prophets are all fantastic. I also like the cavaliers tighten up. the rest are just okay for me and some are sort of crappy but overall a very strong label, rare or not.

I suppose again it's just a matter of taste but I think the point Bri made, was that if these records were not so rare, their popularity and desirability would not be at such a premium and I remain in agreement with that. Actually THE BLOSSOMS is my favourite but then I have a strange addiction to Girly records so that's no surprise! As for JACKIE LEE, again, I think the common availability of records like that mask their brilliance and in a scene that has elevated rarity to such a level, it's no surprise.

Ok, lets try this, Pete does not rate JACKIE LEE in such company, what about something like DARRELL BANKS 'Open the door'? Hypothetically that is discovered tomorrow, only 5 copies exist. It's played at Lifeline, 100 Club and a few other venues and becomes a top spin, within 2 years what's the price label on a record like that? At the end of the day, I think you have to take it on the grounds of comparison with other labels output. You have mentioned a handful of records and in my opinion, Shrine does posess a relative 'handful' of good records compared to the other labels mentioned. I repeat, compared to lables like Motown, Brunswick and Okeh etc, it trails way down the line. (Except on the grounds of rarity!).

[Garethx]

i think the jd bryant record is just okay (it's pretty good) but most of the shrine group records are fantastic productions with fantastic harmony and well written songs. i feel sorry for the people who can only appreciate titles for their rarity or only backlash against them due to their desirability. one of the best titles is maybe the epsilons, the least rare on the label, it probably is the least rare because it was such a great song it was a hit. and the cautions, enjoyables, cairos, sydney hall, four bars, dc blossoms, and prophets are all fantastic. I also like the cavaliers tighten up. the rest are just okay for me and some are sort of crappy but overall a very strong label, rare or not.

I suppose again it's just a matter of taste but I think the point Bri made, was that if these records were not so rare, their popularity and desirability would not be at such a premium and I remain in agreement with that. Actually THE BLOSSOMS is my favourite but then I have a strange addiction to Girly records so that's no surprise! As for JACKIE LEE, again, I think the common availability of records like that mask their brilliance and in a scene that has elevated rarity to such a level, it's no surprise.

Ok, lets try this, Pete does not rate JACKIE LEE in such company, what about something like DARRELL BANKS 'Open the door'? Hypothetically that is discovered tomorrow, only 5 copies exist. It's played at Lifeline, 100 Club and a few other venues and becomes a top spin, within 2 years what's the price label on a record like that? At the end of the day, I think you have to take it on the grounds of comparison with other labels output. You have mentioned a handful of records and in my opinion, Shrine does posess a relative 'handful' of good records compared to the other labels mentioned. I repeat, compared to lables like Motown, Brunswick and Okeh etc, it trails way down the line. (Except on the grounds of rarity!).

[Manfromsoul45s]

garethx

To compare practically any soul record with the Darrell Banks masterpiece is unfair and unhelpful and ultimately makes no particular point.

Well said gareth

[Funky Si]

What's all the fuss about? Another copy has turned up in the UK and its only £10.99 (rather than the £6200 that this went for), and the Cairos is only £8.99.

It's ebay item number 360213152027.

[Mike]

This system is not working correctly for me, it's attributing quotes to the wrong people. Anyone got any idea why?

quote tags were messed up in one members reply and has a knock on effect

eg

works fine

[quote name='chorleysoul' date='01 December 2009 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1259675436' post='1206204']

[/quote]

[/code]








below two don't



[code]

[quote name='chorleysoul' date='01 December 2009 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1259675436' post='1206204']

[/quote]

[/quote]

[quote name='chorleysoul' date='01 December 2009 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1259675436' post='1206204']


[/code]

[Sheldonsoul]

still say jd bryant is not that good a record, for me the cautions,eddie daye ,prophets are far superior

[Corbett80]

Here's another Mix, the first I heard at the 100 club, think it was Butch and it felt like I'd been kicked in the chest. Awesome, awesome group harmony sound.

Absolutely. If you aren't experiencing difficulty breathing with how good that is you need slapping with a wet fish.

And that has nothing to do with rarity or who played it when or where ect. If it was 20 pence worth, it would still be the unsurpassed example of black american music as high art that it is IMHO.

Edited December 1, 2009 by mulf

[Sheldonsoul]

Absolutely. If you aren't experiencing difficulty breathing with how good that is you need slapping with a wet fish.

And that has nothing to do with rarity or who played it when or where ect. If it was 20 pence worth, it would still be the unsurpassed example of black american music as high art that it is IMHO.

[/quoter

thats just awesome

[Guest]

Thanks to the guy who has explained about the fook up on the system - half of my quotes on this subject are words from other people and vice versa so a very confusing debate at present!

As for someone descibing JACKIE LEE 'Oh my darling' as mundane????? - unbelievable!!! - its a mighty Northern Soul cut - but there's that old taste thing again.

Two people have said that DARRELL BANKS is a 'masterpiece' and should not be mentioned - that it is an unfair comparision - that is my exact point....

Judged up against a true masterpiece like that the Shrine records are not in the same league - in my opinion, that is. It is in fact the rarity factor that gives them such prominence. Thats not to say The Prophets is not a good record, it is and like I say my particular girly perversion makes the DC BLOSSOMS my favourite on the label. Nobody has said it's a pile of cack so where that observation came from god knows! I am merely sayig there are far better records on labels like Motown, Brunswick, Chess, Okeh, Atlantic - in my opinion that is....If people wish to hold Shrine up as their own personal summit as far as Northern Soul goes, that is their right to do so. Yes of course there are shite records on those other labels mentioned too, but what the hell has that got to do with it, the number of great records on each of those mentioned here far outweighs the output of Shrine.

Surely nobody is trying to dispute that?

[Guest]

SHELDONSOUL SAID:

it would still be the unsurpassed example of black american music as high art that it is IMHO.

CHORLEYSOUL SAID:

Now we really are getting hysterical. 'Unurpassed'? It's a good to very good group harmony dancer.

Unsurpassed means there is nothing better in the catalogue of Black American Soul Music.

Absolute bollocks. Sorry. So there is nothing in the combined catalogues of Jackie Wilson, James Carr, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, Brenda Holloway, Kim Weston, Lee Jones, Sam Cooke, Willie Hutch, Marvin Gaye and Curtis Mayfied that can touch The Prophets in terms of 'high art'?

Never mind Groups such as The Spinners, The Four Tops, Impressions, Masqueraders, Fantastic Four and countless others.

That sums it all up perfectly. A ludicrous elevation mate and one that defies ration.

Edited December 1, 2009 by chorleysoul