Northern Soul 70's Fashion

[Guest proudlove]

I kept looking at the retro brigade and thought that there was something not quite right.................so I did some research into other retro looks ....................its the Hair-styles.Come on fellas get the total look.........grow that hair to really represent how it was bitd.

[Davetay]

I kept looking at the retro brigade and thought that there was something not quite right.................so I did some research into other retro looks ....................its the Hair-styles.Come on fellas get the total look.........grow that hair to really represent how it was bitd.

Steve, pmsl. come on lets have the long hair back.

[kevinsoulman]

i still have my 40" bottoms made from different makes of jeans in the attic made by was it bogies in skegness also had a pair of 40 " bottoms made from levi denim by a bloke called barry i think on worksop market.

the wife is having a sort out if she finds em will take a photo

kev

Edited July 17, 2011 by kevinsoulman

[Davetay]

i still have my 40" bottoms made from different makes of jeans in the attic made by was it bogies in skegness also had a pair of 40 " bottoms made from levi denim by a bloke called barry i think on worksop market.

the wife is having a sort out if she finds em will take a photo

kev

24" was as wide as it got for me, that was in 75, by the summer of 76 the bags had gone forever,

[Soulsaddler]

The name of the guy who made bags at the Royal was Warwick never bought any of him but i still have two pairs made at Gatesby's a shop that used to be in Stafford st Walsall. Single button waist no patch pockets i never really liked the high waistband pockets thing.

Cheers Isaac, I remember now, yes it was Warwick. Was it Fred Dinham who used to take the orders?

Great times......

Dave R

[Guest Drfunkenstein57]

I didn't have anything like that, but 2 guys I know had Bowling shirts with logo's embroidered on the back:

Gordon Cready had the Wigan Casino badge (done by Anne Walker) also a guy called Gordon Kaye (not of ello, ello fame) had Lune metal spinners (his employer) on his shirt - sadly he passed away a couple of years back.

Personally, I just had the casino logo's drawn onto my college book covers (I was studying as a signwriter) I will scan them one day

[Casper]

I bet he can't get in them though.

The colour was called Pewter not white . I had a pair of those along with a pair of Ice Blue and a pair of Bottle green ones . I still have a Bottle Green leather Levi jacket which I got in 1970 .

How about these Tshirts and cords! ,anyone remember the t shirts with comic pages printed onto them

yes i remember the tee shirts with comic pages printed on them. Myself and some of my friends had them,and if we all wore them at the same time ,we could read each others tee shirts while waiting in the queue at a venue lol

lv susan x

[SHEFFSOUL]

yep.. called dragonette shirts..originally a v neck short sleeve tee , later 'bootlegs' were made in vests..a high fashion item from early 74..that the northern scene adopted..

[Guest soul over easy]

Just a word about Spencers Bags and Polyveldts. Spencers weren't worn til late 78 and onwards and most of the people who wore them were considered divs. Polyveldts weren't worn until 1979, until then everyone wore Solatios, Brogues or Loafers. The polyveldts started with the girls as they weren't very good for blokes to dance in due to them not having leather soles.

a bit harsh pete regarding the spencers . I wore the solatios,cord trousers or pegs,capped sleeve t shirts or fred perrys for me ...ktf

[Guest theoriginator56]

LEV STA PREST TROUSERS

pewter thats the colour. ad some in 69 .

[Guest lambrettanik]

for me the clothes that were associated with the northern scene were spencers and roxy "soul bags" with 1,2 or 3 crown and dog ear pockets all with buttons-worn 1 inch above the ankle with red or white socks(i wore black and white stripped socks,very different at the time) and a white belt.wrist sweat bands in white,royal brogues or "casino diamond" shoes(any one remember these?)they had to have "tips" and "blakey's on the heel and toe,made a great sound as you walked(you can still get royals from a little traditional shoe shop in libary street in wigan called mcnulty's),adidas t-shirts,in red,yellow,blue or white,bowling shirts,full length leather mac's with the belt done into a windsor knot at the back this was i think 75/76 even remember some of the older lads wearing fedora style hats and carrying a wooden handled brolley,andy cap style caps too not flat caps,red or white braces.Later in 77 "doc royals" and polyveldts shoes worn by both male and female,had to be black though.trousers got narrower at the bottom and "bowie" 16 pleats started appearing.i also recall in the mid 70s seeing the girls wear gymnasts leotard with circle skirts.In the 80s it was still bowie pants but made by spencers for me and my mates but the mod revival had brought fred perry and ben shermans back into the dance halls,we wore either penny loafers,moccasins or kung fu sllippers for dancing in,wedge haircuts-every one seemed to have them.i think they came oop norf from down sarf via the mecca?brought by the jazz funk brigade.A nighter bag has always seemed to be part of the scene.but only from 75 onwards did festoonin with badges seem to be prolific,i recall adidas,puma and speedo being favoured brands then,in the 80s" head" bags became popular with advent of the soccer casual,then army tool bags for a while

[Guest Doris]

I used to wear straight pleated skirts, blouses with a velvet ribbon neck tie with kitten shoes. A friend of mine was a dressmaker and we made dresses with long but not circle skirts in bright fabrics. Think the influence of dressing up for the mecca influenced some away from the polyveldt, ankle socks style. Around 78 i wore zoot trousers and glittery boob tubes - drastic change as jazz funk fashion crept over, in fact the current fashion for all in ones (trousers and tops all in) are not too disimilar from todays stuff on the high street.

Doris

[Guest]

74/75- we (girls) used to wear longish straight skirts, bowling shirts and wedge platforms.

[Ritchieandrew]

That was a great read Ritchie, i remember going to J. Simons in Covent garden back in the mid 80's, it was the only place i could get 'Bass weejun loafers' from, plus fantastic Hartford roll neck sweaters imported from the USA, what a great shop, haven't been there in years, is it still open ?

Sadly not open anymore, I think the Internet hit him hard. As long as you knew what brands you wanted you get source them online with no travelling etc. I bought all my clothes there (except Jeans) until he closed. Long live "Vancecastle"

Best Regards, Ritchie.

[Guest GARV]

Sadly not open anymore, I think the Internet hit him hard. As long as you knew what brands you wanted you get source them online with no travelling etc. I bought all my clothes there (except Jeans) until he closed. Long live "Vancecastle"

Best Regards, Ritchie.

John Simons have opened up @ Chiltern St W1U 7QR , there was talk of an online service opening up. They did a collaboration with a label recently but i cant remember who , i remember seeing the clothes on the His nibs website, but not my kind of thing.

[Chris L]

Always thought this was quite nifty for 1970s clothing...........................

[Stevie T]

started for me 73 , had all our stuff made at a Tailors called trews in our home town of Halifax ( spencers took over the shop quite a few years later ) place used to be packed out with us , bringing in our own drawings , of what we wanted, comparing with each other etc , it started with french flare high waist band ( usualy approx 8") masses of buttons of course , always trying to come up with something new and usually outrageous of course . side pockets , ticket pockets , pleats , back pockets , then doubling up , trebling, 5 pleats , 8 pleats , one friends did pleats all round . We then calmed down to just the normal 1" waistband 40" bottom bags , but then the jackets kicked off , high button ( all based on the mod theme) but exaggerated , very fitted , flaring out at the waist , twin vents , but the vents were 12" and longer , 8,9,10 buttons on each cuff , slanted pockets 3 or more on each side , breast pocket ,always with pockets square . .......and it goes on , it was never ending , still isnt and such good fun

[Soul Stu]

Yours truly at Blackpool Mecca 1973 wearing my tailored shirt by Arthur Black of Glasgow

[Guest FrostyJak]

Blackpool late 70,s & Before setting off to wigan a few weeks later

Edited January 20, 2012 by FrostyJak

[Guest crick]

i still have my 40" bottoms made from different makes of jeans in the attic made by was it bogies in skegness also had a pair of 40 " bottoms made from levi denim by a bloke called barry i think on worksop market.

the wife is having a sort out if she finds em will take a photo

kev

i ad a pair of them from bogies ,lost them in cleethorpes

[Guest]

Hi,

Nice shoes, I remember aubergine or "ox blood" long leather coats as being one of the things I coveted.

Sue

Had an aubergine full length leather in 75/76, it was indeed a 'coveted' item...

[Illusive]

Great thread and brings the memories flooding back. It's certainly got me chuckling to myself on reflection.

For me it was off the rail clobber in my youth club days in the mid 70's until I left school in '78.

Then I remember going straight from work with my very first pay packet (£21.28 take home) to Churchill's tailors (Doncaster) and handing over £5 deposit on my first pair of made to measures (£25 all in) Presenting the tailor with my hand drawn design and measurements. 42" bottoms, four reverse side pleats, double zippers on the waist band, 2 tab front pockets, and the crowning glory being the pockets on the back. Four false double zigzag pockets above two patch pockets again with the zig zag tabs, all of which were trimmed with 72 buttons !!!!!!!!! "Clown pants" I recall my parents calling them. For a while i thought i was the dogs nads irrespective of the 'old folks' views!

They weighed a bloody ton and as they were made from a good heavy grade cloth, after an hours dancing, they'd be wet through and twice as heavy.

The tragedy was that by the time i'd arrived at the KGB (Sheffield) for my first nighter, having jumped from my bedroom window, in defiance of my parents, my bubble was burst as the times were changing and bags were on their way out and pegs were coming in.

I don't think anyone's mentioned Pods and i had several pairs of those over the years. The soles weren't dance friendly but i loved em.

How times change - couldn't even get my waist into the bottom of one of those legs nowadays !!!!!!

[midnight2six]

Haha, Pods! God I remember them. In Gateshead then 76-77 it was all patch pockets and star jumpers. Then Dealers came in for street wear and brogues again out on the floor.

[Citizen P]

I kept looking at the retro brigade and thought that there was something not quite right.................so I did some research into other retro looks ....................its the Hair-styles.Come on fellas get the total look.........grow that hair to really represent how it was bitd.

There's only a few of us that can....

T

[spike1]

Haha, Pods! God I remember them. In Gateshead then 76-77 it was all patch pockets and star jumpers. Then Dealers came in for street wear and brogues again out on the floor.

Wore those star jumpers circa 73/4

I had a black one with yellow /gold stars

Me n Chris Hewitt went to watch chesterfield play walsall travelled by train to Birmingham

Yes you've got it nearly got kicked to death by some guys wearing claret n blue stars

Never gave it a thought that we were going to brum and I was wearing wolves colours;(

Live n learn

[Casper]

i have got an original 70s star jumper....its red with cream stars and collar and cuffs.....and its mint!

i wear it for northern soul venues with my cream circle skirt.

lv susan xx

[Citizen P]

Re the dragonette T Shirts & Vests mentioned earlier

There's the vest

There's the Pinball Machine the design was taken from-which was ( I'm almost sure) inspired by a 50's comedy record

St. George and The Dragonette-spoofing Dragnet.-Just the Facts Ma'am.

Anyway, can't see them being revived any time soon

Tony

[Guest]

I have always thought the best look was the smart blazer (mine was black with a Lancashire 'red rose' embroidered badge on the pocket) over a smart casual shirt and baggies, (30 inch max, the rest looked ridiculous and PETE is right, SPENCERS were late and always naff) with brogues or royals...Saw some guys in 1974 in Kendall like this and immediately went and aquired that 'look'....Other than that the classic Harrington/Crombie, Ben Sherman, Sta Prest or 501s from the early late 60s/ early70s has always been the ultimate UK fashion statement for me...

[spike1]

Blackpool late 70,s & Before setting off to wigan a few weeks later

That must be some wicked gear to make steam come out of your ears !!;)

Edited April 9, 2012 by spike1

[Guest smoothwasson]

Had a pair of denim patchwork bags as mentioned earlier,handmade.Also a Budgie jacket as recalled by Mr.Moody bugger.

White Skinners and a leather surfer as well.Coupled with a spider cut ........

i used to wear bakers..wider the better

[Guest Droylsdonian]

There used to be a military outfitters in M/cr, just around the corner from the UCP tripe shop/cafe ( at the back of the Oasis arcade), where Armed Services officers could get measured up & order uniforms, but they did a thriving trade in embroidered badges as well, much like Toye, Kenning & Spencer. That's where you got your Red Rose to have yer Ma sew onto a blazer (as mentioned above), but they stocked NS badges of all kinds & must have bought a job lot of TW badges after it closed, because they were still on window display in the early 80s.

[Guest Soultown andy]

There used to be a military outfitters in M/cr, just around the corner from the UCP tripe shop/cafe ( at the back of the Oasis arcade), where Armed Services officers could get measured up & order uniforms, but they did a thriving trade in embroidered badges as well, much like Toye, Kenning & Spencer. That's where you got your Red Rose to have yer Ma sew onto a blazer (as mentioned above), but they stocked NS badges of all kinds & must have bought a job lot of TW badges after it closed, because they were still on window display in the early 80s.

Remember it well i had a sat job in the shop faceing it,stuarts fashions.Very handy for tony justs record stall,and me good m8 siz worked upstairs in justins fashions.Suits you sir.

[Guest allnightandy]

Wore those star jumpers circa 73/4

I had a black one with yellow /gold stars

Me n Chris Hewitt went to watch chesterfield play walsall travelled by train to Birmingham

Yes you've got it nearly got kicked to death by some guys wearing claret n blue stars

Never gave it a thought that we were going to brum and I was wearing wolves colours;(

Live n learn

Star jumpers and Baseball jumpers were 73/74 with my electric blue parallels and my 20" Lime green (high viz) paralells

not forgetting my Skinners and 18 hole cherry red doc's under my Crombie

and patchwork / mohair jumpers

Edited April 10, 2012 by allnightandy

[Guest Matt Male]

I have always thought the best look was the smart blazer (mine was black with a Lancashire 'red rose' embroidered badge on the pocket) over a smart casual shirt and baggies, (30 inch max, the rest looked ridiculous and PETE is right, SPENCERS were late and always naff) with brogues or royals...Saw some guys in 1974 in Kendall like this and immediately went and aquired that 'look'....Other than that the classic Harrington/Crombie, Ben Sherman, Sta Prest or 501s from the early late 60s/ early70s has always been the ultimate UK fashion statement for me...

Glad to hear Spencers were considered naff, as I could never afford a pair and a mate of mine with rich parents had several in his own designs. Who's laughing now eh?

Pete was right about Polyveldts as well, they were girls shoes, if lads wore anything like that they were Nature Treks. I wore Boston's in the late 70s and then PODs.

[Davetay]

There used to be a military outfitters in M/cr, just around the corner from the UCP tripe shop/cafe ( at the back of the Oasis arcade), where Armed Services officers could get measured up & order uniforms, but they did a thriving trade in embroidered badges as well, much like Toye, Kenning & Spencer. That's where you got your Red Rose to have yer Ma sew onto a blazer (as mentioned above), but they stocked NS badges of all kinds & must have bought a job lot of TW badges after it closed, because they were still on window display in the early 80s.

This was the shop that we got embroidered badge made for our local soul club.

[Guest manusf3a]

100% agree. I couldn't stand spencers or polyveldts, thought they looked decidedly naff.

I had 26" parallel cords with tunnel loops, worn with a gingham shirt with those pearl

studded breast pockets, late 76 maybe. Early 76 saw a lot of waistcoats and ties in my area.

Skinners look clown-like today, but I worshipped the older guys that wore them around 1972.

[Guest Droylsdonian]

Just noticed that there is an ad on this site for Simon Jersey.

It seems it's now an industrial clothing outfit, but back in the day a 'Simon shirt' was another seminal piece of NS kit. It was cotton, with a sort of gentle 'penny round' collar & 2 distinctive seams down each breast.

I used to catch the 46 bus to & from Stevenson Square when I first started work & their showroom was directly behind the bus stop, on the corner of Newton St & Stevie Sq.

[Sharon Cooper]

I haven`t had time to read through all the padt postings but thought I would add one or two pictures of Chris and myself in our `Northern soul` heyday period! Showing the hair do`s, bags (carry type not trousers - that were de rigeur..) and a dress I wore to Wigan (never liked to be a `follower` as you can see) also a pic of us returning from Cleethorpes (travelling home clothes - showing a military style blouse I wore)

[Slim Jim]

I work with a guy who wears rather colourful tank tops and rather fetching bell bottoms as well as shirts with collars that would put your eye out .

The worrying thing is he does not appear to be into Northern Soul or anything else much for that matter

[Guest manusf3a]

No Tez ,not the name I was looking for

I reckon the name you are looking for is Pia Thomas who lived in Norwich,she went out with Keith Harpur for a while when he moved along with Ivan down there for the first time,she used to work in jean jeanie and when I moved down that way she would swop clothes for caps(cloth of course) and p....A few years down the line and I saw her again in leicester now managing a branch of jean jeanie and married to chris pyatt who I believe was a european champion pro boxer who may have fought for a world title.Quite petite and a good dancer and somewhat sought after by many males,even her mum at that time when I knew her in Norwich was gorgeous when you saw them youd think they were sisters ,just shows its all in the old jean... sorry genes you know. Edited May 23, 2012 by manusf3a

[Guest manusf3a]

The long leather coat played a significant role in 70s ",northern soul?",fashion,never had one myself though I did have a few bomber jackets during that period and also a dead smart black leather jacket in the style of a levi denim with poppers instead of buttons(much lusted after by Kev Featherstone who had a bit of a crush on it,I wish Kev had had it now as it disapeared along with the rest of my kit did when I had a holiday at h ms(not h m s).Anyway I was at st Ives standing having a laugh with Mick Gavin r.i.p near the foyer in front of the bogs ,it was pretty crowded having just started to pick up recently with folk starting to travel down from Leeds ,Manchester etc about a January,early Feb timeand was turning into what would have been a top all nighter.There was a couple of other Wellingborough lads with us,Steve Evans,Glen Stewart ,all good peace loving choir boy types?.I think that night Terry may have been with us earlier on the way there when we had some tools in the car brought by Gav etc,one of them being like a medieval pike axe like instrument with a huge curved blade(This wicked bladed instrument I believe was thought by Gav to possibly come in useful?).To get back on track ,we are looking over at the dancefloor when suddenly in front of us this lad from Corby(known to us but not a mate) throws off his long leather new looking coat that falls to the floor in a pile and charges off on to the dancefloor.As we watch another person known to us picks the coat up rolls it into a bundle and puts it into a large plastic bag hes carrying.The bloke didnt go big on adidas or any other such bag he just used to put a shirt and a few bits in a plastic tesco or whatever for his all nighter bag as I know a few did.The bloke then walks away smiling at us.My mate Lenny from Corby isnt keen on the bloke whos lost his coat(another story is why he wasnt ever flavour of the month with us)and has a good laugh hearing what happened ,the bloke is about seventeen or so and lives with his mum and dad,turns out the coat was his christmass present from them.Lenny decides to put in a free add in the Corby Evening telegraph and the Corby leader(weekly)the add read something like"Unwanted christmass present long black leaether coat will accept ten pounds ono giving the blokes mums house phone number!.So long leather coats were fashionable then but had a habit of walking if not looked after.I believe the coat went on to live a healthy lifespan(for a coat) keeping the rain and wind off a resident of the Kingsway estate Wellingborough who shall remain nameless.

Edited June 24, 2012 by manusf3a

[Guest manusf3a]

Just noticed that there is an ad on this site for Simon Jersey.

It seems it's now an industrial clothing outfit, but back in the day a 'Simon shirt' was another seminal piece of NS kit. It was cotton, with a sort of gentle 'penny round' collar & 2 distinctive seams down each breast.

I used to catch the 46 bus to & from Stevenson Square when I first started work & their showroom was directly behind the bus stop, on the corner of Newton St & Stevie Sq.

Just noticed that there is an ad on this site for Simon Jersey.

It seems it's now an industrial clothing outfit, but back in the day a 'Simon shirt' was another seminal piece of NS kit. It was cotton, with a sort of gentle 'penny round' collar & 2 distinctive seams down each breast.

I used to catch the 46 bus to & from Stevenson Square when I first started work & their showroom was directly behind the bus stop, on the corner of Newton St & Stevie Sq.

They were brilliant shirts mate ,loved them,from before the relly baggy fifty button thirty pocket nipple banded baggy pants when the normal waisted staight leg twenty two inch parallel with turnups ruled and seemed relly baggy,I had a black and a grey pair,round about the same time a skinners ,anyway had and loved one of those shirts,a cream one for me, wore it with black twenty two inch paras,a barathea blazer and a pair of those shoes with the basket weave tops ,frank wrights but I do seem to recall at the time "solatios",of crossover s fame did a basketweave too.Back to those shirts they are timeless ,they woud look just as smart now not like some fashions that seemed the height of cool only years later to be relegated to the coca the clown division as outlandish.You used to see loads of soul lads wearing those shirts around the time of the mkt harboro all nighter,I was 13 at the time (and although a bad boy that other kids parents warned their broods not to play with me still wasnt going to all nighters though I did used to go the north park over at kettering and earlier corby bowl,both at the time played loads of "soul",later to be named northern,)and liked clothes luckily my mum used to indulge my whim for such and I would also half inch many items under the aprenticeship to snotty,keith,george mc kimmie etc ,my mum bought me one of those shirts and a pair of black 22 inch parallels at the same time,I was made up fooking lovely ,wore with my barathea as had also got a crombie but had it for some time so the blazer was the flavour of the moment for wearing out and about with the lads.I was right made up ,listening to bob and earl,frankie valli,major lance,al kent etc at the local soul nights Thinking back on things now,I am glad I always looked older when I was younger,I can remember at this point in time even having a set of side boards,not spectacular like Wilkys were at the time ,he was a couple of years older than me but sidies all the same,they got me in the north park club no problem while some of my mates ,Keith ,Harpur,George mcKimmie among others used to always get a grilling on how old they were (due to height perhaps/)though both were three years older than little(well big) old(well looked it ,but young really) me.I do believe the North park kettering is no longer there now victim to demolition and my old mate George r.i.p bless him ,has passed on two years since leaving behind a loving wife(childhood sweethearts) three top class young men ,his sons all an example of their dads support for them at all times through their lifes till they had families themselves and he was still always there ,along with all the many folk of Corby anf other places who knew him.Close friend and confidante to myself ,Wilky ,Snotty r.i.p keith,j he was there just starting out and never lost touch with any of us.Good on ye George!!!. Edited June 28, 2012 by manusf3a

[Guest Droylsdonian]

Manus - you should come up to Manc mate. Within about 25 yards of that old Simon showroom is the night set up by the young lads who are extras in Elaine's fillum.

[Guest turntableterra]

Northern and scooter scene mid seventies fashion shots.....note patchwork jeans,abundance of DM's (who ever wore platforms on the street),denim jackets,beer towels (worn on the parkas) and worn by soulies in belts, why???? (heard it was a northern working class thing), feather hair,red socks,badges (patches of northern soul clubs/northern scooter clubs),sheepskins and long leather jackets.Football scarves were popular.

AINT SEEN THOSE SHOES SINCE...... mind they were shocking. splats i think they were called. big wide souls, checkout the guy standing up in the photo titled burnley and pendle in manchester

[Pete S]

Northern and scooter scene mid seventies fashion shots.....note patchwork jeans,abundance of DM's (who ever wore platforms on the street),denim jackets,beer towels (worn on the parkas) and worn by soulies in belts, why???? (heard it was a northern working class thing), feather hair,red socks,badges (patches of northern soul clubs/northern scooter clubs),sheepskins and long leather jackets.Football scarves were popular.

AINT SEEN THOSE SHOES SINCE...... mind they were shocking. splats i think they were called. big wide souls, checkout the guy standing up in the photo titled burnley and pendle in manchester

The people who had beer towels simply had them to mop up sweat at nighters.

[Pete S]

By the way I saw a pair of these "reissued" Solatio shoes the other day, they look f*ck all like the originals, they've put really thick soles on them for s start and the criss cross pattern is wrong.

[Chris L]

A very rare pic of the London lot heading up North of a Saturday afternoon........

Looking so cool..........................

[wiganelli]

What a site my 3 star jumper and me 2 tone pants !!!! No wonder my dad god bless him used take the mick..

[pikeys dog]

Me - "On My Way" to Wigan - 1976.

[MrsWoodsrules]

I know this is an old thread, but got talking to a guy a last months Lowton, he was selling metal pin badges.

Used to go to The Wheel, not really that interested in the scene anymore he said.

Anyways, we were talking about this very subject & he was a shop designer.

By the end of the 70s if you were still wearing bags & a full length, you were not really on the pulse to be honest.

Wigan had its 'cooler' days half a decade before that, before my time.

We were talking about the coolest shops in Mancester, came up with a list I was shopping at by then he had worked on most of them.

Jonathan Silvers, Last Picture Show, Zap, Manolo, Othello all cool as you like, years a head, mostly Italian designers before they were household names, I was shopping at these places & still going to Wigan, but not many were, the current scene at Wigan at that time was way behind & never caught up, it wasn't fashion, it was dam right old fashioned even then.

That's what's been missed in this thread, Wigan (the fashions I mean) was cool only for a short period early doors.

Aid