sister dawn Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 Having just been to the nighter at Skeg and counted no less than 16 doormen, who did nothing, apart from ensure that smokers stood behind a white line and sent rumors around the place that the venue would be shutting early, and then hearing about an incident at six hills concerning a bottle of water and doormen, got me thinking about why promoters put up with and pay through the nose for this not so pleasurable addition to their soul event. Apart from the odd one or two, your average monkey in a MA1 embroidered logo jacket have no concept about what a soul night is about and the fact that people are there primarily for the dancing and the music and not for kicking off, something if it has occurred, is sorted there and then by the attendees. I realize the stupidness of councils now and the laws in place when putting on gatherings if you want to hold your event in a desired place, but do these individuals have to hold so much power in saying what you can do or cant do, this in my opinion does nothing to add to the atmosphere, in fact it contributes to bad feelings as more often than not their charm and wit when welcoming people into a venue is indeed lacking, with so much emphasis being placed on confiscating Class A bottles of unopened water!!! Usually at the direction of the venue owner to increase bar sales. I have heard promoters say'' if we want to put events on we have to have them by law'', OK, but surely if you pay for this service you must have a say in what is permitted and whats not and you must be informing them about what the nights are about! or are they as a service in control of what and who comes through the door??
Trev Thomas Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 (edited) some venues have to have door staff to comply with health & safety regs, so the promoters have no choice, they have to have the door staff or they cant hire the venue, i think the minimum requirement is one bouncer per 100 people Edited November 8, 2009 by soulman1964
The Tempest Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 Does anybody remember the " UpNorth " security at the Weekenders at Southport in the late 80's , bunch of skinheads who would subject your vehicle to the most rigorous of searches that the KGB or STASI would of been proud of , confiscate all your booze then you'd see them outside their accommodation , sitting around a huge camp fire getting shitfaced on all their proceeds !!!!!!!!, Happy Days !!!!
Dave Abbott Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 I can only vouch for the regular niters that i attend and... the 100 Club; Rugby and Burnley all have top notch door staff. Superb, infact.
dthedrug Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 You could not get in any night club in the late 6ts and early 7ts with Jeans or Boots, thank god they bout out LEVI STA PRESS and no way could you get into a Lacarno Tiffenies or Mecca without a Tie on as any body who went to the Highland Room in Blackpools Mecca will tell you, so I think comon scence is the rule we all know that we dont need door men at a Rare Soul Night, they are only there to chat to
Guest dundeedavie Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 we all know that we dont need door men at a Rare Soul Night, don't need , or don't want ?
paup-ine Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 some venues have to have door staff to comply with health & safety regs, so the promoters have no choice, they have to have the door staff or they cant hire the venue, i think the minimum requirement is one bouncer per 100 people Its 2 bouncers per 100 P
munchkinette Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 You can't beat the doorman at Brookfields he's a soulie .
Mace Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Doormen should always be used in my opinion. Nowt to do with 'controlling' those who should be there, but more-so keeping out those that shouldn't. I'm fortunate that the doormen I use are extremely 'scene friendly' so to speak, they have always done the door for any events I have done, and now do a lot of the other soul nights around Stoke....they even occasionally turn out at soul events they are not working at. They know the full score, and they also know any local knobs who shouldn't be allowed in. I've never had any reason for them to 'earn their keep' so to speak, and hope I never need to....I'm quite happy to pay them their rate for doing nowt if the night runs smoothly. Some promoters might prefer to cut costs by not employing doormen, but do they ever consider the possible consequences if something did go tits up one night?
sister dawn Posted November 9, 2009 Author Posted November 9, 2009 its the ones that aren't scene friendly I'm referring too Mace, But if yours weren't, I guess you would inform them of what the nights are about though?
Guest WPaulVanDyk Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 If you go to a venue where there has to be security ie a night club hosting a soul night fine it has to be accepted but at venues where it's only usually the staff you pay to, to get in then no need for security as i would say it's friendly scene with no trouble much. We all get along and if there was any trouble surely people who are there would sort it with out the need of security
Gilly Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Yes to keep idiots out so we can get on and enjoy ourselves regards Gilly and Nicola
Brav Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I'm afraid its the law at any venue that the Police and Local council enforce upon you, and any venue that has not got bouncers is breaking the law. In Crewe at our local working men's club where we had our Soul Nights, they had hired the room out for someone's birthday party and apparently all hell broke out and the next day they had there licence taken off them because there were no bouncers employed. The club has now closed and been demolished.
Guest smudgesmith Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 You could not get in any night club in the late 6ts and early 7ts with Jeans or Boots, thank god they bout out LEVI STA PRESS and no way could you get into a Lacarno Tiffenies or Mecca without a Tie on as any body who went to the Highland Room in Blackpools Mecca will tell you, so I think comon scence is the rule we all know that we dont need door men at a Rare Soul Night, they are only there to chat to Went to the Mecca once without a tie............I went back to the car,all i had were a set of jump leads.I put those around my neck the bouncers said i could go in as long as i didnt start anything
Mace Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I'm afraid its the law at any venue that the Police and Local council enforce upon you, and any venue that has not got bouncers is breaking the law. In Crewe at our local working men's club where we had our Soul Nights, they had hired the room out for someone's birthday party and apparently all hell broke out and the next day they had there licence taken off them because there were no bouncers employed. The club has now closed and been demolished. I'm not sure that it's legal requirement as such, moreso advisory to have badged doorstaff at the recommended ratio. Council venues usually insist on it, and I should imagine nightclubs etc that suffer from constant problems with fights etc would have to employ bouncers to comply with their license, but I'm not so sure a working mans club would have to? Was this the Northward Club you refer to that was closed down? Did they lose their license over that one incident, or was there other ongoing issues (running beyond licensed hours etc) that compounded the problem? Either way, I agree with your overall point Brav. Dawn, I have on occassion used extra bouncers when numbers required it, the trick is to have a head doorman leading the team who fully knows the score and he should ensure his team work to his instructions and follow his example. It also depends on who pays their wages, the promoter or the venue manager/owner. If the promoter pays them, you can be sure they will be a hell of a lot more responsive to the promoters requests.
Guest toby Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 We at Groovesville Soul Club,we pay the doorstaff,we tell what is required of them etc..........oh and we only use 1 security member, The rest is down to me and with a little help from Andy,in saying that WE know who the local knobs are and if they attempt to get into a Groovesville event,they are sent on their way by ME. I agree that you do have to have door staff,but IMO they have to be SOUL friendly ie NO threatening looks,No rough stuff,No rumaging thru' bags etc,they Must be polite etc if they aint we dont use them. The door staff at the 100 club are fantastic,friendly people,much the same as the Rugby nighters. Toby
KevH Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Went to the Mecca once without a tie............I went back to the car,all i had were a set of jump leads.I put those around my neck the bouncers said i could go in as long as i didnt start anything ,same here Smudge.Only tie i wore to the Mecca was holding my trousers up . Doormen - needed to keep out the riff raff. I'd hire Toby anytime to be on my door. Edited November 9, 2009 by KevH
Brav Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I'm not sure that it's legal requirement as such, moreso advisory to have badged doorstaff at the recommended ratio. Council venues usually insist on it, and I should imagine nightclubs etc that suffer from constant problems with fights etc would have to employ bouncers to comply with their license, but I'm not so sure a working mans club would have to? Was this the Northward Club you refer to that was closed down? Did they lose their license over that one incident, or was there other ongoing issues (running beyond licensed hours etc) that compounded the problem? Either way, I agree with your overall point Brav. Dawn, I have on occassion used extra bouncers when numbers required it, the trick is to have a head doorman leading the team who fully knows the score and he should ensure his team work to his instructions and follow his example. It also depends on who pays their wages, the promoter or the venue manager/owner. If the promoter pays them, you can be sure they will be a hell of a lot more responsive to the promoters requests. Hi Mace. Yes it was the Northward as i had hired it for my 50th birthday a few years before the incident under different management and they insisted i pay for a bouncer to satisfy the council and police in Crewe and it applies to all venues in crewe. And as far as i'm aware the club lost there license for a single infringement of the law. They did eventually get i license back but they weren't given a music license back so it was the death of the club. The same rules applied at The MMU events that i ran as they were told by the council and police i must have bouncers. The room hire there was £100 but i had to pay £500 in bouncers pay, it was 2 bouncers per 100 people. Regards Brav
Rugby Soul Club Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 OK, but surely if you pay for this service you must have a say in what is permitted Totally agree, we pay for their service, so they provide said service to our requirements... altho the management did get a pi..ed off when the drinks bottles sneaked in were left under the tables at the end of the nite... some venues have to have door staff to comply with health & safety regs, so the promoters have no choice, they have to have the door staff or they cant hire the venue, i think the minimum requirement is one bouncer per 100 people we were advised 1 door man per 100 people but after the second nite, they realised all they were there for was to keep out the locals... It helps that I've known them since middle school days...they knew I did strange things at the weekends and one I used to work with knew not to speak to me on a Tues... Does anybody remember the " UpNorth " security at the Weekenders at Southport in the late 80's , bunch of skinheads who would subject your vehicle to the most rigorous of searches that the KGB or STASI would of been proud of , confiscate all your booze then you'd see them outside their accommodation , sitting around a huge camp fire getting shitfaced on all their proceeds !!!!!!!!, Happy Days !!!! Brilliant, had forgotten about those days... Have been to some venues where there seems to be lots of doormen walking round the venues with earpieces...not necessary IMO at a soul venue... the name "doorman" says it all, stay at the door.
Rob Wigley Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 You'll find if you run large events in council owned venues that it is a requirement to employ their door staff. This is not only to keep order (generally not an issue at soul venues) but for First Aid and for Fire evacuation as well. Although costs are high , should the worst happen its worth every penny
Simsy Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 we all know that we dont need door men at a Rare Soul Night Don't let our Ken hear you talk like that!
Guest Soultown andy Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 There are no clubs that i know of that will let you run without badged security.At soultown we have 3 badged door lads [one girl] who have all been on the scene for years,problem solved .
Jez Jones Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I'm not sure that it's legal requirement as such, moreso advisory to have badged doorstaff at the recommended ratio. Council venues usually insist on it, and I should imagine nightclubs etc that suffer from constant problems with fights etc would have to employ bouncers to comply with their license, but I'm not so sure a working mans club would have to? Was this the Northward Club you refer to that was closed down? Did they lose their license over that one incident, or was there other ongoing issues (running beyond licensed hours etc) that compounded the problem? Either way, I agree with your overall point Brav. Dawn, I have on occassion used extra bouncers when numbers required it, the trick is to have a head doorman leading the team who fully knows the score and he should ensure his team work to his instructions and follow his example. It also depends on who pays their wages, the promoter or the venue manager/owner. If the promoter pays them, you can be sure they will be a hell of a lot more responsive to the promoters requests. That would be Gary then would it .....must say he does a crackin job and as has been said before knows what to expect at a soul night
Mace Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 That would be Gary then would it .....must say he does a crackin job and as has been said before knows what to expect at a soul night It would indeed, a top lad who I'd trust with my life, but not with my wife...
Guest Dave Turner Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Went to the Mecca once without a tie............I went back to the car,all i had were a set of jump leads.I put those around my neck the bouncers said i could go in as long as i didnt start anything Is that true or are you fibbing again ?
Ian Parker Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Most venue's that i visit dont have security or door staff & i prefer those night's, as it's nice to be in a friendly club where you dont need a type of bouncer A couple of places i have been to, where they had door staff, they still let some trouble makers in, & i noticed that one of the places, the trouble makers where friends of the door staff, so what's the point of having them! Debbie x Edited November 12, 2009 by parkash
Ged Parker Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 The number of door staff needed is set out within the venues operating plan which is then annexed to the Premesis Licence and if they are employed they have to be SIA registered by law that is if they do anything other than directing customers or checking tickets. Regardless of who pays for the security the overall responsibilty lies with the DPS (Designated Premesis Supervisor) for the venue and any breaches are down to them. So they can and most often do set the operational standards of Door Staff. Even where there is not a NEED for door staff they have to be provided in the ratio set out within the conditions on the licence. Some are a minimum of 2 for the first 100 and then 1 per extra 75 but others are as low as 1 per 150. This varies as it is a hang over from the PEL (Public Entertainment Licence) regime that was superceded by the last licensing act and was controled by the relevant local council. Good practice guidance also states that clubs should provide free drinking water on demand but it isn't a legal requirement (unless within the venues licence conditions) so most don't. If they did then no one would need to take in their own.
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