Bootlegs And Deception

[Guest REVILOT]

On ebay now -

Roy Hamilton Cracking Up Northern Soul Vinyl 45

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roy-Hamilton-Cracking-Up-Northern-Soul-Vinyl-45_W0QQitemZ250525181397QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Records?hash=item3a5476e5d5

States location - Llanelli

Meanwhile

Rose Batiste Hit & Run/Miss My Baby Northern Soul

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rose-Batiste-Hit-Run-Miss-My-Baby-Northern-Soul_W0QQitemZ260500709200QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Records?hash=item3ca70d5f50

States location - Loughborough

Yet it is the same seller

And they only accept paypal as payment so you cant find out where they really are.

the seller is called -

casinosoul2008

[Mark Bicknell]

And?????????? don't subscribe to the fcuking things then with a bit of luck these bastards will go out of business, Ebay will do sod all about it even if you report them so it's a waste of time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Jem Britttin]

And?????????? don't subscribe to the fcuking things then with a bit of luck these bastards will go out of business, Ebay will do sod all about it even if you report them so it's a waste of time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Think they will go out of business wether ebay stop them or not , have watched a lot of these type of modern boots recentley on ebay none of them ever seem to get bids . I just cant work out who would be buying them, can only be a handful of people at best, cant see any one making much money out of that.

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

What about this from northernsoulsister, address "*, Down, United Kingdom"?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ann-Heywood-Crook-His-Little-Finger_W0QQitemZ260501470244QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Records?hash=item3ca718fc24

It's only single sided fer crying out loud!

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Hi everybody -

Not that I am an expert, but I have had to join a number of songwriting, performer and label agencies because I now own or co own recorded works here in the UK and the US. They have strict guidlines and rules that are applicable to members and it is very 'legal'. The understanding that the creation of a song by writers, the recording of that song as a master and ultimate exploitation of that song as a release whether digitally, on CD, vinyl etc is a business venture with a hopeful generation of revenue for all those involved through the whole process whether the artists, sessions musicians, studio hire, record pressing plant, shipping and even the digital sales aggregators like CD Baby or your high street record shop, who are at the front line of selling physical copies to those who prefer a traditional purchase rather than Play.com etc.

The notion of these bootlegs undermines the original intentions of the song writers and their moral rights, producers and record label. It should never be assumed that the owners of these works would like to see them copied and distributed like this as a rule. It is sad that some individuals feel it is their perogative to blatantly copy and distribute other peoples intelectual property rights on the assumption that they are doing them a favour and it may generate interest that they claim, they initiated. Or in the case of this vinyl, stealing the rights to copy and distribute from the owners.

'Soul Recession' by Double Exposure is a song written and created in Philadelphia on a Sunday night September 2008 in Bobby Eli's studio. We created the rhythm track demo, so the musicians could listen to it the following morning and with the hand written chord charts, could follow and lay down the instrumental multitrack before any vocals were done. The lyrics were written the next day and the group rehearsed them in the studio that week and recorded them etc. At that stage we were unaware that a DJ in the US, was going to be interested in the song and the various mix incarnations that were made afterwards and released for sale at a later date. What transpires next is typical blatant copyright infringement and brought to my attention recently by an agency I am a member of, is a full blown high bandwidth alternative unofficial DJ mix of various elements of each of our song/production with added percussion and synth strings. This DJ has put the track on the Internet as a free download and suggested people buy the real tracks from our CD Baby web page. Since that unofficial post, our sales have stopped 100%. The DJ has assumed he is helping the investors of the production, me, by doing his own thing. He never even asked mine, Bobby's or Chiquita, the other writers permission, never contacted the label or offered us an MP3 that we may listen and appraise etc. This is where it gets interesting. Human nature says 'I would not mind hearing that mix, and seeing how it compares to the original. Nobody will know or mind, and if I like it, I won't even have to buy the original'. Which is what I did! Me, downloading my own song to listen to somebody else thinking they have a right to copy, work on, produce an alternative mix without any respect for the artists or musicians who I paid on the session and then put it on the Internet free of charge! I wonder how many people have downloaded the illegal song and bought a version properly off our CDBaby page? I wonder how many people have downloaded it and have no intention of buying a copy and have burnt it on to a CD for their own use, or indeed copied it and sent it electronically to a friend!

The moral of the above is becoming clearer as I learn more and more about this business. The music cost money to make. The right thing to do is buy it from outlets authorised to sell it. That way, the whole chain from start to finish benefits from the cash to help pay for the original expenses incurred etc. As a digital download it is only 79p, yet people still send mp3's all over the place, free of charge and create compilations to give and in some cases sell at just 'cost price' of the CD/p&p etc. But what is the true cost to those who created the original works in the studio? It's very flippant of me to think that exposure like this could not be positive, just like the pirate radio stations of the 1960's who helped bring Motown to our attention, yet just as flippant for individuals to assume that a label needs their expertise in pirating their works, so they cannot pay their artist a correct royalty on legal sales! Everytime a work is copied digitally, distributed, kept and played it is illegal. The licence on the original purchase is for the buyer only and includes a 'fair use' policy where an individual can copy for archive purposes. The minute it is copied electronically for somebody else, or even posted on the interent, it becomes an illegal copy and therefore undermines those who created the work in the first place.

So basically the music business is in shit! The do gooders think the music owes them something, so they take it, free of charge, and the honest fans and purchasers probably pay a premium because of that. And the labels who had it good for so long have learnt a valuable lesson over the last few years. Me, I spent £27000 last year and this, of my savings and pension and current sales are just under £600. Yet, I see my works posted free of charge on the Internet in the US.

If you are adamant and want to stop bootlegging and piarates, the right thing to do is report them to trading standards or the BPI who operate a number of policies. That is how I found about the 'Soul Recession' issue. If you are curious about the illegal remix and like it, surely the right thing to do would be to at least purchase one of the official mixes, as ultimately Double Exposure would love to perform live somewhere, but can't because there is no money!

Food for thought.....

Edited November 5, 2009 by Carl Dixon

[Guest Matt Male]

There's an amazing amount of crap on ebay

Look at this one... 'Come On Rain'?

Don Thomas?

[Godzilla]

There's an amazing amount of crap on ebay

Look at this one... 'Come On Rain'?

Don Thomas?

Same guy also says:

hank you for looking

Look like he should invest some of his booty profits in a new ypewriter.

Yikes! Mine's doing it now

[Haydn]

Hi everybody -

Not that I am an expert, but I have had to join a number of songwriting, performer and label agencies because I now own or co own recorded works here in the UK and the US. They have strict guidlines and rules that are applicable to members and it is very 'legal'. The understanding that the creation of a song by writers, the recording of that song as a master and ultimate exploitation of that song as a release whether digitally, on CD, vinyl etc is a business venture with a hopeful generation of revenue for all those involved through the whole process whether the artists, sessions musicians, studio hire, record pressing plant, shipping and even the digital sales aggregators like CD Baby or your high street record shop, who are at the front line of selling physical copies to those who prefer a traditional purchase rather than Play.com etc.

The notion of these bootlegs undermines the original intentions of the song writers and their moral rights, producers and record label. It should never be assumed that the owners of these works would like to see them copied and distributed like this as a rule. It is sad that some individuals feel it is their perogative to blatantly copy and distribute other peoples intelectual property rights on the assumption that they are doing them a favour and it may generate interest that they claim, they initiated. Or in the case of this vinyl, stealing the rights to copy and distribute from the owners.

'Soul Recession' by Double Exposure is a song written and created in Philadelphia on a Sunday night September 2008 in Bobby Eli's studio. We created the rhythm track demo, so the musicians could listen to it the following morning and with the hand written chord charts, could follow and lay down the instrumental multitrack before any vocals were done. The lyrics were written the next day and the group rehearsed them in the studio that week and recorded them etc. At that stage we were unaware that a DJ in the US, was going to be interested in the song and the various mix incarnations that were made afterwards and released for sale at a later date. What transpires next is typical blatant copyright infringement and brought to my attention recently by an agency I am a member of, is a full blown high bandwidth alternative unofficial DJ mix of various elements of each of our song/production with added percussion and synth strings. This DJ has put the track on the Internet as a free download and suggested people buy the real tracks from our CD Baby web page. Since that unofficial post, our sales have stopped 100%. The DJ has assumed he is helping the investors of the production, me, by doing his own thing. He never even asked mine, Bobby's or Chiquita, the other writers permission, never contacted the label or offered us an MP3 that we may listen and appraise etc. This is where it gets interesting. Human nature says 'I would not mind hearing that mix, and seeing how it compares to the original. Nobody will know or mind, and if I like it, I won't even have to buy the original'. Which is what I did! Me, downloading my own song to listen to somebody else thinking they have a right to copy, work on, produce an alternative mix without any respect for the artists or musicians who I paid on the session and then put it on the Internet free of charge! I wonder how many people have downloaded the illegal song and bought a version properly off our CDBaby page? I wonder how many people have downloaded it and have no intention of buying a copy and have burnt it on to a CD for their own use, or indeed copied it and sent it electronically to a friend!

The moral of the above is becoming clearer as I learn more and more about this business. The music cost money to make. The right thing to do is buy it from outlets authorised to sell it. That way, the whole chain from start to finish benefits from the cash to help pay for the original expenses incurred etc. As a digital download it is only 79p, yet people still send mp3's all over the place, free of charge and create compilations to give and in some cases sell at just 'cost price' of the CD/p&p etc. But what is the true cost to those who created the original works in the studio? It's very flippant of me to think that exposure like this could not be positive, just like the pirate radio stations of the 1960's who helped bring Motown to our attention, yet just as flippant for individuals to assume that a label needs their expertise in pirating their works, so they cannot pay their artist a correct royalty on legal sales! Everytime a work is copied digitally, distributed, kept and played it is illegal. The licence on the original purchase is for the buyer only and includes a 'fair use' policy where an individual can copy for archive purposes. The minute it is copied electronically for somebody else, or even posted on the interent, it becomes an illegal copy and therefore undermines those who created the work in the first place.

So basically the music business is in shit! The do gooders think the music owes them something, so they take it, free of charge, and the honest fans and purchasers probably pay a premium because of that. And the labels who had it good for so long have learnt a valuable lesson over the last few years. Me, I spent £27000 last year and this, of my savings and pension and current sales are just under £600. Yet, I see my works posted free of charge on the Internet in the US.

If you are adamant and want to stop bootlegging and piarates, the right thing to do is report them to trading standards or the BPI who operate a number of policies. That is how I found about the 'Soul Recession' issue. If you are curious about the illegal remix and like it, surely the right thing to do would be to at least purchase one of the official mixes, as ultimately Double Exposure would love to perform live somewhere, but can't because there is no money!

Food for thought.....

Sad state of affairs Carl, totally unfair and I, like others, find it totally absurd. It's probably nigh on impossible to stop or prevent exposure of the music. As soon as one file appears online, it spreads like wildfire.

In some cases, I have found myself recording a 45 from the collection onto cd for folks and either cut it short or skip some of the tune, so that it don't find itself on a carver.

I am not saying that even these records are particularly rare. It's just that I have an original for longer and if they are interested enough in the tune and can't find a file online, they may put the donkey work in and buy a real one.

When all is said and done, nothing is sacred.

It seems there is a buck to be made by selling other peoples hard work and time, and nowadays it is getting easier and easier for these clowns.

Just my tuppenceworth,

[Guest Paul]

Same guy also says:

hank you for looking

Look like he should invest some of his booty profits in a new ypewriter.

Yikes! Mine's doing it now

Same here, my eyboard is fuced.

[Hitsville Chalky]

Think they will go out of business wether ebay stop them or not , have watched a lot of these type of modern boots recentley on ebay none of them ever seem to get bids . I just cant work out who would be buying them, can only be a handful of people at best, cant see any one making much money out of that.

The People buying them ......

1 - The people who love the music and don't care what format its on or thinks its a original

2 - Northern soul DJs who again dont care and they want the music to DJ with , and dont care about other DJs paying top dollar for the Original format , but then again the bootleg DJs still get Bookings ..so if we report them to ebay you can still buy boots from venues ..etc .... there will always be bootlegs true fact .

3 Who ever are making these boots they must be making money or else they wouldnt continue .

And please Jem don't think i am having a pop at your statements ... just my Views .

[Iancsloft]

Hi everybody -

Not that I am an expert, but I have had to join a number of songwriting, performer and label agencies because I now own or co own recorded works here in the UK and the US. They have strict guidlines and rules that are applicable to members and it is very 'legal'. The understanding that the creation of a song by writers, the recording of that song as a master and ultimate exploitation of that song as a release whether digitally, on CD, vinyl etc is a business venture with a hopeful generation of revenue for all those involved through the whole process whether the artists, sessions musicians, studio hire, record pressing plant, shipping and even the digital sales aggregators like CD Baby or your high street record shop, who are at the front line of selling physical copies to those who prefer a traditional purchase rather than Play.com etc.

The notion of these bootlegs undermines the original intentions of the song writers and their moral rights, producers and record label. It should never be assumed that the owners of these works would like to see them copied and distributed like this as a rule. It is sad that some individuals feel it is their perogative to blatantly copy and distribute other peoples intelectual property rights on the assumption that they are doing them a favour and it may generate interest that they claim, they initiated. Or in the case of this vinyl, stealing the rights to copy and distribute from the owners.

'Soul Recession' by Double Exposure is a song written and created in Philadelphia on a Sunday night September 2008 in Bobby Eli's studio. We created the rhythm track demo, so the musicians could listen to it the following morning and with the hand written chord charts, could follow and lay down the instrumental multitrack before any vocals were done. The lyrics were written the next day and the group rehearsed them in the studio that week and recorded them etc. At that stage we were unaware that a DJ in the US, was going to be interested in the song and the various mix incarnations that were made afterwards and released for sale at a later date. What transpires next is typical blatant copyright infringement and brought to my attention recently by an agency I am a member of, is a full blown high bandwidth alternative unofficial DJ mix of various elements of each of our song/production with added percussion and synth strings. This DJ has put the track on the Internet as a free download and suggested people buy the real tracks from our CD Baby web page. Since that unofficial post, our sales have stopped 100%. The DJ has assumed he is helping the investors of the production, me, by doing his own thing. He never even asked mine, Bobby's or Chiquita, the other writers permission, never contacted the label or offered us an MP3 that we may listen and appraise etc. This is where it gets interesting. Human nature says 'I would not mind hearing that mix, and seeing how it compares to the original. Nobody will know or mind, and if I like it, I won't even have to buy the original'. Which is what I did! Me, downloading my own song to listen to somebody else thinking they have a right to copy, work on, produce an alternative mix without any respect for the artists or musicians who I paid on the session and then put it on the Internet free of charge! I wonder how many people have downloaded the illegal song and bought a version properly off our CDBaby page? I wonder how many people have downloaded it and have no intention of buying a copy and have burnt it on to a CD for their own use, or indeed copied it and sent it electronically to a friend!

The moral of the above is becoming clearer as I learn more and more about this business. The music cost money to make. The right thing to do is buy it from outlets authorised to sell it. That way, the whole chain from start to finish benefits from the cash to help pay for the original expenses incurred etc. As a digital download it is only 79p, yet people still send mp3's all over the place, free of charge and create compilations to give and in some cases sell at just 'cost price' of the CD/p&p etc. But what is the true cost to those who created the original works in the studio? It's very flippant of me to think that exposure like this could not be positive, just like the pirate radio stations of the 1960's who helped bring Motown to our attention, yet just as flippant for individuals to assume that a label needs their expertise in pirating their works, so they cannot pay their artist a correct royalty on legal sales! Everytime a work is copied digitally, distributed, kept and played it is illegal. The licence on the original purchase is for the buyer only and includes a 'fair use' policy where an individual can copy for archive purposes. The minute it is copied electronically for somebody else, or even posted on the interent, it becomes an illegal copy and therefore undermines those who created the work in the first place.

So basically the music business is in shit! The do gooders think the music owes them something, so they take it, free of charge, and the honest fans and purchasers probably pay a premium because of that. And the labels who had it good for so long have learnt a valuable lesson over the last few years. Me, I spent £27000 last year and this, of my savings and pension and current sales are just under £600. Yet, I see my works posted free of charge on the Internet in the US.

If you are adamant and want to stop bootlegging and piarates, the right thing to do is report them to trading standards or the BPI who operate a number of policies. That is how I found about the 'Soul Recession' issue. If you are curious about the illegal remix and like it, surely the right thing to do would be to at least purchase one of the official mixes, as ultimately Double Exposure would love to perform live somewhere, but can't because there is no money!

Food for thought.....

===============================================================================================

==============================================================================================

Excellent post Carl and something everyone should read !!!

Love, Peace & Happiness

Ian Cunliffe

[Pauldonnelly]

ktf Mr Dixon.....

[Jem Britttin]

The People buying them ......

1 - The people who love the music and don't care what format its on or thinks its a original

2 - Northern soul DJs who again dont care and they want the music to DJ with , and dont care about other DJs paying top dollar for the Original format , but then again the bootleg DJs still get Bookings ..so if we report them to ebay you can still buy boots from venues ..etc .... there will always be bootlegs true fact .

3 Who ever are making these boots they must be making money or else they wouldnt continue .

And please Jem don't think i am having a pop at your statements ... just my Views .

Respect your views , no offence taken ...maybe I am being a bit naive but is it that one or two people are producing them on mass then selling them to dodgy dealers or are dealers getting them done for them selves its just that most are offered for less than ten quid and i would of thought it would be quite expensive to get small batches of records pressed then print labels etc. and listing fees....if a few indviduals are responsible for producing them on mass then maybe its these people that should be sussed out and reported ?

[Guest REVILOT]

Respect your views , no offence taken ...maybe I am being a bit naive but is it that one or two people are producing them on mass then selling them to dodgy dealers or are dealers getting them done for them selves its just that most are offered for less than ten quid and i would of thought it would be quite expensive to get small batches of records pressed then print labels etc. and listing fees....if a few indviduals are responsible for producing them on mass then maybe its these people that should be sussed out and reported ?

That is very true. I believe alot of these ebay sellers are not individual sellers, but individuals with multiple ebay accounts.

I came across one scammer near me who had 3 ebay accounts at one time - leaving feedback to each other.....

But on your main point - it seems these pressings are being done in quantity.

[Jem Britttin]

That is very true. I believe alot of these ebay sellers are not individual sellers, but individuals with multiple ebay accounts.

I came across one scammer near me who had 3 ebay accounts at one time - leaving feedback to each other.....

But on your main point - it seems these pressings are being done in quantity.

If they are being produced in large numbers surely trading standards would be interested they are usually quite hot on that kind of thing or are they operating under some kind of loop hole?

[Barry]

Hi everybody -

Not that I am an expert, but I have had to join a number of songwriting, performer and label agencies because I now own or co own recorded works here in the UK and the US. They have strict guidlines and rules that are applicable to members and it is very 'legal'. The understanding that the creation of a song by writers, the recording of that song as a master and ultimate exploitation of that song as a release whether digitally, on CD, vinyl etc is a business venture with a hopeful generation of revenue for all those involved through the whole process whether the artists, sessions musicians, studio hire, record pressing plant, shipping and even the digital sales aggregators like CD Baby or your high street record shop, who are at the front line of selling physical copies to those who prefer a traditional purchase rather than Play.com etc.

The notion of these bootlegs undermines the original intentions of the song writers and their moral rights, producers and record label. It should never be assumed that the owners of these works would like to see them copied and distributed like this as a rule. It is sad that some individuals feel it is their perogative to blatantly copy and distribute other peoples intelectual property rights on the assumption that they are doing them a favour and it may generate interest that they claim, they initiated. Or in the case of this vinyl, stealing the rights to copy and distribute from the owners.

'Soul Recession' by Double Exposure is a song written and created in Philadelphia on a Sunday night September 2008 in Bobby Eli's studio. We created the rhythm track demo, so the musicians could listen to it the following morning and with the hand written chord charts, could follow and lay down the instrumental multitrack before any vocals were done. The lyrics were written the next day and the group rehearsed them in the studio that week and recorded them etc. At that stage we were unaware that a DJ in the US, was going to be interested in the song and the various mix incarnations that were made afterwards and released for sale at a later date. What transpires next is typical blatant copyright infringement and brought to my attention recently by an agency I am a member of, is a full blown high bandwidth alternative unofficial DJ mix of various elements of each of our song/production with added percussion and synth strings. This DJ has put the track on the Internet as a free download and suggested people buy the real tracks from our CD Baby web page. Since that unofficial post, our sales have stopped 100%. The DJ has assumed he is helping the investors of the production, me, by doing his own thing. He never even asked mine, Bobby's or Chiquita, the other writers permission, never contacted the label or offered us an MP3 that we may listen and appraise etc. This is where it gets interesting. Human nature says 'I would not mind hearing that mix, and seeing how it compares to the original. Nobody will know or mind, and if I like it, I won't even have to buy the original'. Which is what I did! Me, downloading my own song to listen to somebody else thinking they have a right to copy, work on, produce an alternative mix without any respect for the artists or musicians who I paid on the session and then put it on the Internet free of charge! I wonder how many people have downloaded the illegal song and bought a version properly off our CDBaby page? I wonder how many people have downloaded it and have no intention of buying a copy and have burnt it on to a CD for their own use, or indeed copied it and sent it electronically to a friend!

The moral of the above is becoming clearer as I learn more and more about this business. The music cost money to make. The right thing to do is buy it from outlets authorised to sell it. That way, the whole chain from start to finish benefits from the cash to help pay for the original expenses incurred etc. As a digital download it is only 79p, yet people still send mp3's all over the place, free of charge and create compilations to give and in some cases sell at just 'cost price' of the CD/p&p etc. But what is the true cost to those who created the original works in the studio? It's very flippant of me to think that exposure like this could not be positive, just like the pirate radio stations of the 1960's who helped bring Motown to our attention, yet just as flippant for individuals to assume that a label needs their expertise in pirating their works, so they cannot pay their artist a correct royalty on legal sales! Everytime a work is copied digitally, distributed, kept and played it is illegal. The licence on the original purchase is for the buyer only and includes a 'fair use' policy where an individual can copy for archive purposes. The minute it is copied electronically for somebody else, or even posted on the interent, it becomes an illegal copy and therefore undermines those who created the work in the first place.

So basically the music business is in shit! The do gooders think the music owes them something, so they take it, free of charge, and the honest fans and purchasers probably pay a premium because of that. And the labels who had it good for so long have learnt a valuable lesson over the last few years. Me, I spent £27000 last year and this, of my savings and pension and current sales are just under £600. Yet, I see my works posted free of charge on the Internet in the US.

If you are adamant and want to stop bootlegging and piarates, the right thing to do is report them to trading standards or the BPI who operate a number of policies. That is how I found about the 'Soul Recession' issue. If you are curious about the illegal remix and like it, surely the right thing to do would be to at least purchase one of the official mixes, as ultimately Double Exposure would love to perform live somewhere, but can't because there is no money!

Food for thought.....

Bob on.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, since the record shop as an entity went tits up and the internet took over, the whole forum of selling music has entered the grey market.

You wrote a song and you produced a track at a studio - you paid the studio and the engineer.

You then took your finished product mastering and for press - you paid for that service.

You sold your finished vinyl to a distributor for x price - you covered your costs maybe;

Who sold it onto a record shop for Y price - who covered their costs maybe;

Who sold the finished product to us, the punter for Z price - who had a fully paid up and finished article to show for it.

The track got exposure on radio, or later on in the industry got a PRS payment or equivalent, either way something was given in return.

Chain finished, calculable and everyone was happy - and more to the point, everyone got paid.

Not so anymore.

[Barry]

You can tell 'Benidorm's on can't you?

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Hi Barry - I think eveybody was watching the live seance of Micheal Jackson on Sky One!

You are of course 100% right with your post. Thank you. You should hear me at work ranting about this. I see people cueing up to pay for toilet roll and groceries, for example at Tesco's near work, yet, some of them are happy and try to justify why they should take free music off the web. Or buy the cigs at £5 a packet and yet not buy something for just 79p (mp3) which I have to pay a royalty to th eproducer and featured artist etc. I think I need a day in Hyde Park ha ha.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Carl Dixon

[Barry]

Hi Barry - I think eveybody was watching the live seance of Micheal Jackson on Sky One!

You are of course 100% right with your post. Thank you. You should hear me at work ranting about this. I see people cueing up to pay for toilet roll and groceries, for example at Tesco's near work, yet, some of them are happy and try to justify why they should take free music off the web. Or buy the cigs at £5 a packet and yet not buy something for just 79p (mp3) which I have to pay a royalty to th eproducer and featured artist etc. I think I need a day in Hyde Park ha ha.

I believe old Derek managed to make contact too!?

[Guest Matt Male]

Hi Barry - I think eveybody was watching the live seance of Micheal Jackson on Sky One!

You are of course 100% right with your post. Thank you. You should hear me at work ranting about this. I see people cueing up to pay for toilet roll and groceries, for example at Tesco's near work, yet, some of them are happy and try to justify why they should take free music off the web. Or buy the cigs at £5 a packet and yet not buy something for just 79p (mp3) which I have to pay a royalty to th eproducer and featured artist etc. I think I need a day in Hyde Park ha ha.

I'm against bootlegging and never play boots when DJing, but surely you can see why people want something for nothing or something cheaper than it should be? Who is rich enough to pay top dollar thesedays? We live in Rip Off Britain, everything is more expensive than it should be, including CDs and downloads. Maybe if we weren't being ripped off all the time on our gas, electric, water bills and every other bloody thing on a daily basis we'd be happy to play full price for those things that we aren't paying through the nose for. I know you're not one of them Carl but i get a bit sick of the multi-billion dollar music industry and film industry whining about piracy.

[Barry]

i get a bit sick of the multi-billion dollar music industry and film industry whining about piracy

It's the little fella's that suffer too fella.

[Guest Matt Male]

It's the little fella's that suffer too fella.

stating the obvious there Barry

[Barry]

stating the obvious there Barry

Pointless bloody reply really wasn't it?

[Guest Matt Male]

Pointless bloody reply really wasn't it?

yep... damn you've got me doing it now

[Geoff Whitfield]

I'm against bootlegging and never play boots when DJing, but surely you can see why people want something for nothing or something cheaper than it should be? Who is rich enough to pay top dollar thesedays? We live in Rip Off Britain, everything is more expensive than it should be, including CDs and downloads. Maybe if we weren't being ripped off all the time on our gas, electric, water bills and every other bloody thing on a daily basis we'd be happy to play full price for those things that we aren't paying through the nose for. I know you're not one of them Carl but i get a bit sick of the multi-billion dollar music industry and film industry whining about piracy.

Matt

On What basis do you make the claim that cd's are too expensive?

[Dave West]

Same here, my eyboard is fuced.

Shouldn' have got a chea one, I got min fro PC Worl and its perfec

[Baz Atkinson]

bootleggers are c--nts that have no virtue or respect for the sanctity and tradition of rare /or even acessible vinyl!!! The bay is a sad spectacle these days -and thE office of fair trading have not got a clue-the question is enforcement not regulation!!! If these people are known on the scene are out and about -there is another way-go over nut them and take their monEy off them ,alot of people have done good work on here trying to expose these people,just keep it up folks!!!

BAZ A

awaiting the david haye fight and his vindaloo!!!

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

We live in Rip Off Britain, everything is more expensive than it should be, including CDs

Once upon a time...

You had to be a really rich b@$#@rd to listen to music. You had to pay the guy to write the music, and then pay the orchestra every time you wanted to listen to it.

Then came records, which allowed everyone to share in the cost so that they could each buy a bit of the music and the right to listen to it whenever they wanted.

Later, thanks to radio stations floating in the North Sea, people could listen to the music for free and select what they wanted to buy from that. At that point the average wage was enough for me to live on plus one night out with the lads and two LPs a week.

Today I can afford to live on my wages and still have enough left to run a car, a TV, a computer, a multi-format stereo system, go out whenever I feel like it, and buy one CD a day.

In what respect are CDs too expensive?

[Guest Mr messyhead]

seen one guy selling boots £10 for "issue" and £20 for "white demo" ?

folk were buying the demos but they coudn't get it. The labels had just been printed on different coloured paper IT'S THE SAME RECORD - ITS NOT A DEMO ITS A BOOT !?

If folk buy them they'll make 'em.

The thing I find odd is that I have paid bucks for some records I have but grudge spending a tenner or so on a cd. I would rather get vinyl for my money but thats just me

[Ian Dewhirst]

I'm against bootlegging and never play boots when DJing, but surely you can see why people want something for nothing or something cheaper than it should be? Who is rich enough to pay top dollar thesedays? We live in Rip Off Britain, everything is more expensive than it should be, including CDs and downloads. Maybe if we weren't being ripped off all the time on our gas, electric, water bills and every other bloody thing on a daily basis we'd be happy to play full price for those things that we aren't paying through the nose for. I know you're not one of them Carl but i get a bit sick of the multi-billion dollar music industry and film industry whining about piracy.

It's not really a multi-billion dollar music industry anymore Matt - there are only 4 majors these days - Sony, Universal, Warners and EMI and they're all a shadow of their former selves and probably likely to consolodate even further.

If it's any consolation my next batch of CD's will be a fiver each @ retail and available in the last remaining chain - HMV from Boxing Day onwards and I've got 70 odd releases planned for next year. It's taken a long time and the music industry have made every mistake imaginable but music's never been cheaper to buy then it is right now......

But I totally agree with your overall sentiments. You're right - this is pretty much the most expensive country to live in, we work the longest hours and we're the unhappiest nation in Europe according to the latest surveys........

Not me though. That's why I like music. It helps me put up with the rest of the sh*t!

Ian D

[Quinvy]

Import cd's [with perfect quality sound] of mega rarities, make it very easy to make these boots. People making cd's for all and sundry of rare records has meant that you don't have to leave the house to hear them.

[Barry]

People making cd's for all and sundry of rare records has meant that you don't have to leave the house to hear them.

I get your point Quinvy and I agree to a degree but is that really a bad thing?

[Quinvy]

I get your point Quinvy and I agree to a degree but is that really a bad thing?

Only my opinion Barry. People play these cd's all the time i.e. home & car, and get sick of hearing the same tracks. Then when they go out, they get to hear them again.

Phil.

[soul45s]

Didnt realise there were so many dodgy discs for sale

I cant understand why people buy em!

[Quinvy]

Didnt realise there were so many dodgy discs for sale

I cant understand why people buy em!

If you look at all the soul nights that are on every weekend Paul......a lot are played out by wannabe DJ's......I was recently told by a mate, [he'd just paid out a substantial amount of money for a very rare record] he'd gone to a local soul night, when suddenly, said rare record came belting out of the speakers. He said he couldn't believe his ears, and just had to go up to the decks to take a peek.......a carver with totally the wrong label was on the decks.....when my mate spoke to the "DJ" he apologized and said he had got them from Ireland. "Them" says my mate. Yes, one for myself and one each for my two mates......

And that's not the best part.......the venue in question, advertises as O.V.O. you've got to laugh or you'd cry.....

Phil.

[Mike]

YOU CAN ADD

LOTS OF BOOTLEGS IN THEIR REISSUE SECTION

SO WHY ARE THEY ALLOWED A BANNER ADD ON HERE???

BILLLY

ask if you got any concerns on banner advertising on here

then rather than post them up in a thread that may or may not see, please post them up in members feedback here

https://www.soul-sour...mbers-feedback/

as always happy to answer ought

thanks

mike

Edited November 12, 2009 by mike
dodgy account quote

[Ernie Andrews]

bootlegging imho has in years before

  given the masses chance to hear what was/is  difficult to  obtain so  i think has helped  many people satisfy  the"fever" at one time or another, however  in these times of  cd/internet  etc   ,blatant  copying  in some cases passed as "origanal" is as much a crime as forgery,fraud  etc   ,but in that respect is it not a principle job  of the djs etc to try to keep ahead of this situation  with new material etc  and try different sources styles etc   		,its always been around  think it helps the music to keep fresh in some instances     		regards   doog

I totally agree with you- The Dj who plays Boots today knows they are boots and IMO are even F**king worse than the boot maker as they only want to have fame and dont F**king care about the music. Yet when these self same DJs are approached about other formats get onto their hypocrytical stance of its only vinyl here mate and bleat on about it doesnt matter about OVO cos its whats in the grooves that count. They are in denial or are intelectually disabled - One or the other

Ive just bought about 12 records from the Us for less than £100 and could do a half hour spot with them no problem and keep the dance floor reasonably happy.

We should have Boot -Burning meetings or get the "Soul Police" to confiscate the Djs earnings as they have profited from criminality "Crime doesnt Pay" but Boots appear to do so!

[Guest REVILOT]

I totally agree with you- The Dj who plays Boots today knows they are boots and IMO are even F**king worse than the boot maker as they only want to have fame and dont F**king care about the music. Yet when these self same DJs are approached about other formats get onto their hypocrytical stance of its only vinyl here mate and bleat on about it doesnt matter about OVO cos its whats in the grooves that count. They are in denial or are intelectually disabled - One or the other

Ive just bought about 12 records from the Us for less than £100 and could do a half hour spot with them no problem and keep the dance floor reasonably happy.

We should have Boot -Burning meetings or get the "Soul Police" to confiscate the Djs earnings as they have profited from criminality "Crime doesnt Pay" but Boots appear to do so!

Yes

Might aswell have a juke box in the corner playing CDs than a boot DJ.

A real DJ is a collector/////////////////

[Guest]

Once upon a time...

You had to be a really rich b@$#@rd to listen to music. You had to pay the guy to write the music, and then pay the orchestra every time you wanted to listen to it.

Then came records, which allowed everyone to share in the cost so that they could each buy a bit of the music and the right to listen to it whenever they wanted.

Later, thanks to radio stations floating in the North Sea, people could listen to the music for free and select what they wanted to buy from that. At that point the average wage was enough for me to live on plus one night out with the lads and two LPs a week.

Today I can afford to live on my wages and still have enough left to run a car, a TV, a computer, a multi-format stereo system, go out whenever I feel like it, and buy one CD a day.

In what respect are CDs too expensive?

Rather flawed, I am sorry. From the moment records became available people have been exploiting technology to obtain music freely or cheaply.

But firstly, have you checked the levels of Social Security payments lately?

For the 3 million people unemployed in Britain at this moment, running a car, owning an expensive stereo, going out whenever they want to

and buying one CD a day is certainly a world of fantasy.

As for the rosy stuff about the Pirates and 'everybody could select what they wanted to buy from that', firstly the Pirates paid no royalties either, unlike the licensed stations that have to, although of course they played a huge part in getting popular music to the masses.

Lets recall something else...Even in the 70s when stations like Luxembourg went legit, there were millions of teenagers taping records straight off the radio with their Phillips portable cassette recorders. It was a passion for teenagers all over the bloody country and the record companies made nothing out of it. Also remember when the companies started stamping all the inner sleeves on LP's with 'home taping' is illegal? Why? Because again one kid was buying the album and 3 of his mates were taping it and so on and so on. The practise of obtaining music for nothing or in an unlicensed form is most certainly not a new development and the whole concept of the Internet and websites etc was actually created by the very generations who once taped music with a 'live' microphone. As for our scene, how many of us had great tapes of sounds we could only dream about owning when we were very young back then...I've still got some of mine.

As regards 'bootlegs', there will alway be people who don't care about whether it is an original, they just want to play a tune on record and would rather pay a tenner than 200.

There will also always be second division DJ's who will happily play boots to impress a crowd.

Whilst the seriously passionate and obssessive like us debate all this on here, there will also always be hundreds of people who get pissed and dance at those do's without giving a flyer about the records being boots.

There will always be small dealers who will purchase lots of boots en-masse and then flog them off slowly at a small profit over the next few years or move them onto unknowing general record dealers who think they now have a real box of 'northern soul' in their shop or record stall.

Finally in the 50s and 60s, it was almost impossible for tons of the artists we admire to get airplay without DJ's or stations being bribed financially or with 'sweeteners'. Today new artists do not have to neccesarily rely on Radio 1 in order to raise a profile or get people talking about their music and that is almost 100 per cent down to the Internet.

It is a double bladed sword...

While I sympathise with people like Carl D, the reality is that the music business has always been a dirty, difficult pond to swim in and contemporary developments are only mirroring the historic past albeit by use of changing mediums.

[Quinvy]

I would also lay the blame for the current situation squarley on the shoulders of certain promoters, who are so afraid of upsetting anyone that they turn a blind eye to what goes on behind the decks. And some wouldn't know a boot from a silk slipper anyway.....

Phil.

[Mike]

ho f***** hum

a new account posting "heavy" posts calling/naming various record sellers for selling bootlegs

do us a favour if going to post heavy stuff then do it from a solid real account!

not some fly by night hotmail based one that shares a lot in common with another account

posts by this account removed and account put on hold till member clears up concerns

to the member , suggest you pm me asp from the other account

regarding your question about banners will answer it in feedback