Disturbing Trend

[Rob Wigley]

After an enforced confinement due t'pig flu I had a quick flick around the events columns to see what is on this weekend that tickles our fancy if we are well enough to venture out!

This may have been covered before, if so apologies and a "Link" please, if not I'd like to hear your thoughts.

There seems to be a rising "Northern" trend of Free to attend events spreading like wildfire throughout Yorkshire and Lancashire at the moment. In fact at a glance in October, in our area you can go out, without an admission charge EVERY weekend both Friday, Saturday and in some cases Sunday.

"Good on you ", you might say "Moneys too tight to mention" at the moment.. However I think it's a worrying situation and quite frankly the beginning of the end for many established Northern nights in certain areas run by stand alone promoters trying hard to provide "Fresh" DJs and something a little different from the run of the mill.

There is also a trend in "Price Cutting" on door charges, with nights cutting charges in order to undercut rival events in the same town. This seems to apply to nights that have been running a couple of years-(Why pay £5 there, when you can come here for £2.50?).

So what are your thoughts? Would you sooner go out "For Free" and have more money to spend on drink? or sacrifice a couple of pints for a quality venue and a healthy DJ line up ?

This isn't only confined to Soul Nights, a major Weekender is now that reliant on bar sales to keep it afloat, there are as many free passes as you like provided you bring along a bunch of mates who can drink enough ale to sink a battleship to show "Bar sales"! This is all well and good but where are the "True Souls"? They won't be at these venues for long as they have probably spent the last 30 odd years avoiding dickheads in pubs and clubs!

Start giving something away and it rapidly becomes worthless and taken for granted.

Watch out Notts, Lincs the East Midlands and Birmingham, there is a wave spreading down the country and you're next to be hit! (It may already be there)

Any thoughts from promoters who are noticing this situation? What do you intended to do about it, pack in or fight back? I might add that not all "Free" events are bad or dire musically or lacking in atmosphere. The Horse and Groom in Doncaster, for example, stands head and shoulders above many events due to the dedication and enthusiasm of its DJs and promotion team.

Disturbing trend or beginning of the end ?

As above your thoughts are appreciated.

Rob

[Catriona]

I d rather plan , travel and pay(ptp) to go somewhere, but I only go out once a month anyway and expect everything to be wonderful because I ve PTP,d. I wouldnt walk to the end of our street for a soul do unless it was going to be good music, great people etc. All that and free ...brilliant ! I ll be there. Lifes too busy for crap nights out:thumbup:

I think I may see you kids soon, xxxxxxxxxxxx

[Tabs]

I'm with Cat on this.

I'd rather travel and pay the door tax for a venue that is promoting the musical policy I want to hear.

BUT that's because I can afford to.

With the current economic climate if I was unemployed then a free event down the road would be a godsend.

So no real answer from me.

Think it probably depends on individuals personal circumstances.

[Ged Parker]

Soul nights are like records only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. As venues struggle hire charges are being waved making it low risk for the would be promotor. I know of at least one venue that pays the 'promotor' to put the night on in the same way as they may book an act to get customers in.

If people don't value what you put on and would rather see DJ's that are doing it for nothing (presumably playing records that are easy to get hold of) then you can't blame the audience.

There are too few people who value the scene for what it always has been to me; a vibrant scene based on finding and playing new and different music to an appreciative audience. I suspect these people won't be regulars at free events and would rather pay to here good DJ's play quality records but if there isn't enough of these punters to go around you have to be on top of your game, have the right DJ's, with a great sound system, a good dancefloor, in the right venue, in a good location with plenty of parking and still you may not get enough in.

If people won't buy what you have on offer you go out of business. That's a simple fact. In this case not one I like but it is a reality.

[Rob Wigley]

We've got our 1st anniversary coming up so we're doing a one off free night as a thankyou to our supporters but I have to say that free nights don't intrest me at all. I know the costs of putting a night on, somebody, somewhere has to pay. The promoter supplys the room & equipment, the DJ's supply the sounds and the time, the club provide the bar, staff & electricity, if they return an profit they do well. I feel it's a only fair that I, as a punter, chip in with the admission fee, I've been offered free entry to many nights over the years but I always pay, and lets be honest the average admission of £5 is cheaper than any other scenes venue price.

Hi John

Not a free night ! LOL That does not count, nor do 40ths or 50ths etc.

You provided a quality music night and something different to the wealth of other stuff on in the same town during the month, however are there any Free nights in Long Eaton or within 5 miles at the moment ??

Happy Anniversary

R & K

[Ian Parker]

Debbie - Everyone would like something for nothing, but i would have to agree with Incognito, the door prices are very good, as i have friends on the 40s & 50s scene & the average door price for some of the venues they visit is £8 to £10

We will travel for a good night!

Or we go to our regular venues that we know will be playing what we want

[Rob Wigley]

I d rather plan , travel and pay(ptp) to go somewhere, but I only go out once a month anyway and expect everything to be wonderful because I ve PTP,d. I wouldnt walk to the end of our street for a soul do unless it was going to be good music, great people etc. All that and free ...brilliant ! I ll be there. Lifes too busy for crap nights out:thumbup:

I think I may see you kids soon, xxxxxxxxxxxx

Well said missus

x

[coops]

as i don't / can't drink i'm not fussed about saving me ever decreasing dole money for a beer, to be honest when i could drink i never did at a nighter or venue anyhow, to me beer and staying upright while dancing to the tunes that have become the theme to my life never did go hand in hand. i'd much rather pay the pennies and hear the tunes i love than get in free and hear some of the ear-aching things that pass for soul music on some of the decks up and down this fair land of ours.

[Rob Wigley]

as i don't / can't drink i'm not fussed about saving me ever decreasing dole money for a beer, to be honest when i could drink i never did at a nighter or venue anyhow, to me beer and staying upright while dancing to the tunes that have become the theme to my life never did go hand in hand. i'd much rather pay the pennies and hear the tunes i love than get in free and hear some of the ear-aching things that pass for soul music on some of the decks up and down this fair land of ours.

Excellent reply

[spot]

Rob I never look at the Door tax cost at any event, as the song says "I go where the music takes me", I look firstly at the Dj line up,then the distance from home & if it's in England & takes our fancy then we're off & usually pick up a couple to ride shotgun & listen to me talking Drivel & Bo**ock's, I think most Rare Soul lovers are like this,with as always the odd exception. Most people only get out once or at the most twice a week, so hopefully the entrance fee should be irelevant, the most I've seen is £12 & most people spill more than than that in beer, however if your unemployed or on benefits then thats a different matter, advanced planning for a Soulful D-Day landing is required.

Take care,be safe & remember,"I'm a pensioner now you know",

Spot.

p.s. As for drinking I tend to be Mr Designated Driver as Gail & most of our passengers don't drive & as previously said, Dancing,Beer & Upright tend not to gel well.

Edited October 27, 2009 by spot

[phillyDaveG]

Quote - "So what are your thoughts? Would you sooner go out "For Free" and have more money to spend on drink? or sacrifice a couple of pints for a quality venue and a healthy DJ line up"

Why does it have to be one or the other? There are lots of great and free soul events run by "quality" DJs. As a punter, price doesn't really come into it for me (as long as it's not OTT), but the entrance price doesn't necessarily reflect the quality of the event. Most of the best nights I've been to in the last year or so were free. Don't see why it is a worrying trend.

[Guest lifeandsoul]

Don't think being 'free' is necessarily the criteria. Free doesn't mean free always, making it free could increase the attendance so payment to the promoter or the DJ could be out of bar take, or the venue could pay a promoter direct and make it free to the punter.

As said above what should dictate where people go is the content, not cost. You can still pay loads and have a crap night!

[Patto]

I usually manage to get to one good night a month,and its the quality of the venue,DJs,dancefloor etc in other words all things important to Soulies that matter above the entry fee.The averge soulnight price seems to be £5 and Nighters around £10 and this is about right for todays climate.When you consider the admission price to a football match or even the cinema then its clear we don't do bad,and most of the weekenders are great value.Don't think free admissions are needed, nowt wrong with paying a fair price for the very hard work that most promoters have to put in to get thinks right

[Guest Beeks]

We do a free R&B night in Manc 'Out Of The Blue'...Original vinyl...and between the residents we have all the top sounds that the paying venues have...don't see what your problem is...as a punter people should be delighted...and from the feedback we have had they are

We don't do it for the money...as strange as it may seem...we do it for the love of the music...the guests we have on know that there is little or no financial gain playing and don't have a problem with it

As for the impact on similar nights in the area it seems to have no bearing whatsoever...Hideaway and No Way Out are as busy as ever...just because one night is free doesn't mean you won't pay to get in another...flawed logic

This seems to be blatant scare mongering

[Guest Beeks]

In my opinion free nights are to draw locals into the room to enhance bar sales, very rarly, except for specalist nights, would you find soulies who have travelled any distance to get to them. They are normally bog standard (Jimmy mack)motown/(footsie)northern nights that bear little resemblance to the scene or it's followers. The music is normally used as a backdrop to the main event which is to get pissed. Next week the same crowd will get pissed to Country & Western and the week after that they get pissed to Rock'n'roll. We recently had one in our local club with 250 in and 10 soulies, 240 of those attending didn't really give a shit what they were listening to.

Completely disagree...the only time you can say that is if the club/bar is on a main thoroughfare so picks up passing punters...but most nights on the circuit are in out of the way places and not in the centre of towns/cities and you have to seek them out not stumble upon them

People have been travelling from all over to our night...a few from Crewe made it a couple of nights ago and the last one we had people had travelled from the North East

Ok...granted...it might be different on the Soul scene...but everyone we have through the doors bar a VERY small percentage are there for the music

[joe lakin]

Good thread this rob enjoying reading it joe

[francis t]

A a member of the West Midland Soul Club team promoting the Glades/Nautical William Revival Nights I agree we should be concerned about free/cheap nights affecting estblished venues. This year we cut down the number of events to a couple as we could not risk the cost of putting on more nights in a council owned (ie expensive) room.Add the cost of a decent sound system , guest deejays etc we thought long and hard before announcing our forthcoming night on the 28th November.Quality costs.

If other promoters start to think the same way, and I suspect some are, the bigger traditional venues may disappear at the same rate as the pubs willing to give rooms for free.

I think the odd free afternoon evening session of deejays playing their recent discoveries/slowies/crossover rarities might have some place on the scene, put putting "northern soul and motown (of course)"on the same basis as karaoke and general quiz nights does not feel good to me.

francis t

IF YOU DO NOT MIND PAYING THE FIVER TO GET IN THE NEXT GLADES IN KIDDERMINSTER IS ON 28TH NOVEMBER AT THE GLADES ,BROMSGROVE STREET, KIDDERMINSTER

[Guest Beeks]

O.K. How much do you spend on:-

Equipment

Advertising

Room Hire

Door Staff

I don't know but would be prepared to say that as a guess, equipment & sound systems are the clubs, I've not seen flyers anywhere so you use these forums only to advertise, Room hire would be free along with the staff. Your a group of collectors/DJ's who get together to play the sounds you love to the people you respect, fine, apart from paying guest petrol money what would your personal overheads be. Would you be prepared to do your night free if you had to pay a couple of hundred pounds a month to do so. I may be wrong and if I am I apolagise profusly but I did specify apart from specialist nights in my post.

John

Fair point John

But going back to the original posters gripe...I can't see how free nights can be detrimental to the scene

The very fact that they are free means a very limited budget...therefore if you want to see your 'Butch, Soul Sam' et al then you are NOT going to see them down your local boozer are you? At the same time your local boozer is not going to put you off travelling to see a great lineup and pay a fiver/tenner through the door either!

[pikeys dog]

Putting any kind of free night on a Friday or Saturday evening (barring Birthdays/Weddings) smacks of people desperate to DJ who can't get bookings elsewhere to me...

[Guest Beeks]

Putting any kind of free night on a Friday or Saturday evening (barring Birthdays/Weddings) smacks of people desperate to DJ who can't get bookings elsewhere to me...

Ah I see...so according to your logic...anyone who promotes a free night is desperate to DJ...yet someone who promotes a paying night isn't?

No need for that dig mate...completely uncalled for

[Ged Parker]

Ah I see...so according to your logic...anyone who promotes a free night is desperate to DJ...yet someone who promotes a paying night isn't?

No need for that dig mate...completely uncalled for

Not sure Joe was having a dig at you particularly Beeks but I do think he has a point. Why do you feel the need to do it free? Do you not think people would pay? Do you not need the money for more records? If not is there not a charity that could do with the money in your opinion? (all acounted for like the Red House obviously).

Not a dig from me just wondering about your reasoning?

[pikeys dog]

Not sure Joe was having a dig at you particularly Beeks but I do think he has a point. Why do you feel the need to do it free? Do you not think people would pay? Do you not need the money for more records? If not is there not a charity that could do with the money in your opinion? (all acounted for like the Red House obviously).

Not a dig from me just wondering about your reasoning?

All points I should have raised but thought would have gone without saying...

Nothing "personal" in my opinion at all, I'd say that was the case for anyone putting on free nights.

[Reg]

Well I'd definitely consider a free night over one that I had to pay for. Times are hard when you've got growing nippers to feed!

I'm really not that bothered about big name djs. It's nice to hear djs I've never heard before to be honest-I've heard all the big names plenty of times anyway. I've been to loads of decent free pub nights over the years. A fiver less spent on the door is a couple of extra pints .

I've been to enough nights that are total dog poo that I've paid a tenner to get in to.

[Rob Wigley]

Fair point John

But going back to the original posters gripe...I can't see how free nights can be detrimental to the scene

Beeks its not a "Gripe"-looks like you are doing something for the good of the scene-great ! more power to you and those like you-its not a general "Free is bad" statement at all.

My concern is locally set-up free nights against established venues in an area in an attempt to make those nights un workable by chipping away at the punters attending. Thus leaving original promoters well out of pocket on the various costs involved, we know we've lost £1,000s over the years and have always stood by the theory if we book you you get paid !

There is a genuine reason for this post, some of these events are deliberately set up either side of an established event to inflict damage on it, thus leaving the promoter out of pocket. I'm lucky if we promote something we already have the costs covered BEFORE WE START from our own pocket- but others put a lot of time and effort into their events and need to cover their costs.

These nights are on the increase and may in turn be a blessing in disguise forcing the scene away from the bright lights and back well undergound, we'll wait and see.

Thanks to all who have replied so far

Rob

[Guest Beeks]

Not sure Joe was having a dig at you particularly Beeks but I do think he has a point. Why do you feel the need to do it free? Do you not think people would pay? Do you not need the money for more records? If not is there not a charity that could do with the money in your opinion? (all acounted for like the Red House obviously).

Not a dig from me just wondering about your reasoning?

People would pay...we have some good DJs on...Phil Saxe...Barry Tasker and Mr Warburton from the Hideaway have all played for us...I don't know why we don't charge...I guess we thought we would do things a little different...none of us really needs the money...i've been a successful promoter before and could probably find a top venue...whack out a few thousand flyers and go down that route again...but this is a small pub in Manc...and while me Lee and Geoff happen to like the atmosphere in there we don't think it warrants a charge on the door simple as that

I'm not arsed about getting paid...and the notion i'm doing it because I can't get anymore gigs is ludicrous...the night generally does well enough that I don't feel the need for nationwide recognition...I play the odd gig outside of Manc and i'm happy with that...I just enjoy playing my records out to an appreciative audience

Whether they pay or not is by the by to be honest

[Rob Wigley]

Well I'd definitely consider a free night over one that I had to pay for. Times are hard when you've got growing nippers to feed!

I'm really not that bothered about big name djs. It's nice to hear djs I've never heard before to be honest-I've heard all the big names plenty of times anyway. I've been to loads of decent free pub nights over the years. A fiver less spent on the door is a couple of extra pints .

I've been to enough nights that are total dog poo that I've paid a tenner to get in to.

I totally agree with your logic--but -what happens if your free night isn't playing the music you prefare because they are under pressure from their paymasters at the club to tread a more commercial path ?

Remember most "Free night" promoters are being paid by someone for doing it-otherwise they would not bother !!!!

[Shsdave]

Funnily enough I've tried to give free nights at events but people don't want them.

When we were running Soul in the City we started at 6.30 ish (midweek venue) & gave free entry up until a certain point. Some people, RBman & Pete Bennet in particular used to come down later on just so they could pay an entrance fee (or say they told us it could have been cause they were sitting in the pub down the road & were too old & lazy to get off of their arses )

Likewise at Solid Hit unofficial roadie/oddjob man/beer buyer Kev Kent always helps get the room ready even when his back is playing up & when I offer him free entry for all his help he always refuses even to the extent where he shoves his fiver physically into my box... ooh er mrs !

Good blokes for sure ...along with many others of course.

Nothing wrong with a free night but I think people tend to view them with a "well if it's free it can't be much good" whereas I've been to too many that charged & were worse than "not much good"!!!

However don't expect free entry at Solid Hit anytime soon !

[Reg]

I totally agree with your logic--but -what happens if your free night isn't playing the music you prefare because they are under pressure from their paymasters at the club to tread a more commercial path ?

Remember most "Free night" promoters are being paid by someone for doing it-otherwise they would not bother !!!!

If it was pants I wouldn't go again!

[Guest sarahleen]

The problem with that is that the DJ's doing the night might be under pressure just to provide played out,classic, boring, safe, cheap, uninspiring etc etc just to get the muggles into it, but for an establish soulie with an delicate palatte wouldn't you sooner go to a higher quality event

iv been to local free nights or very cheap ones (£3.00) and been surprised at how good the music is .

iv also paid £10.00 or even £15.00 in and sat there all night listening to the some old down tempo underplayed (or is it ?) rare early 60s r n b doowop rubbish ALL NIGHT LONG .

iv found SOME of the free or cheap local nights to to be more across the board , playing more 70s and dare i say it are more uptempo and inspiring . lets face it the a dj at the bottom end of the food chain is more grass roots and in tune with the crowd so isnt under as much pressure to deliver to the "established soulie " with a "delicate pallatte ". whatever that means ! .

besides its a free market and people can choose what they like . maybe you should veiw the competition as a healthy and positive thing instead of a threat , as a punter of course .

[Rob Wigley]

ame='Karen and Rob Wigley' date='27 October 2009 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1256651974' post='1180450']

Taking this a foot further then Rob, it's not free nights or cheap nights thats the problem but promoters playing politics, which has been a part of the scene from before there was a scene. We go against lots of other nights in our area but play different styles than any of them, if we didn't I wouldn't bother, as with Beeks, no doubt. We charge cause we've got higher overheads but if a free night started near us playing what we played we'd proberly pack up and go there. Only a nutter would run a specialist night to make a profit.

No John its a lot of both and other stuff already mentioned in this thread.

The Free nights are creeping south--aimimg to choke established ones out of business !

Keep a close eye on what I'm saying !

Rob

[viphitman]

What about getting paid to get in?????? I can dance, drink, talk rubbish (inklusive the odd funny story from back inda day)... unfortunately I am shit in telling jokes but......I can also look really hard!!!!

DEAL????

[Paul Shirley]

iv been to local free nights or very cheap ones (£3.00) and been surprised at how good the music is .

iv also paid £10.00 or even £15.00 in and sat there all night listening to the some old down tempo underplayed (or is it ?) rare early 60s r n b doowop rubbish ALL NIGHT LONG .

iv found SOME of the free or cheap local nights to to be more across the board , playing more 70s and dare i say it are more uptempo and inspiring . lets face it the a dj at the bottom end of the food chain is more grass roots and in tune with the crowd so isnt under as much pressure to deliver to the "established soulie " with a "delicate pallatte ". whatever that means ! .

besides its a free market and people can choose what they like . maybe you should veiw the competition as a healthy and positive thing instead of a threat , as a punter of course .

yeah yeah yeah all played out on f... cd's and boots nothing to do with northern soul music .hence two scenes one for tossers that couldnt give a shit and one for people that havent sold out and care about its traditions and its future

[Jumpinjoan]

We don't seem to have this problem in Lancashire.

Here's me thinking it was you Yorkshire lot that were as tight as a tight thing

[Guest Bogue]

We do a free R&B night in Manc 'Out Of The Blue'...Original vinyl...and between the residents we have all the top sounds that the paying venues have...don't see what your problem is...as a punter people should be delighted...and from the feedback we have had they are

We don't do it for the money...as strange as it may seem...we do it for the love of the music...the guests we have on know that there is little or no financial gain playing and don't have a problem with it

As for the impact on similar nights in the area it seems to have no bearing whatsoever...Hideaway and No Way Out are as busy as ever...just because one night is free doesn't mean you won't pay to get in another...flawed logic

This seems to be blatant scare mongering

Sounds good that Beeks ...apart from the 'Blue' bit of course

I'd take the subject with a pinch of salt though....although everyone professes that their concern is only for the 'scene'...that song from 'The Italian Job' comes into mind & is probably somewhere up in the reasoning too

[Guest sarahleen]

yeah yeah yeah all played out on f... cd's and boots nothing to do with northern soul music .hence two scenes one for tossers that couldnt give a shit and one for people that havent sold out and care about its traditions and its future

and there was me thinking music was for EVERYONE and not just for some select self appointed gaurdians of "the scene" .

you dont OWN this music and YOU are destroying its future by scaring people away with your divisive and eletist sermons from on high .

on the one hand you want more punters through the door and complain when people set up alternative nights . on the other hand you complain when YOUR !!!!!!!! "scene is being polluted and infiltrated by non worthys or "tossers" to use your words.

me and some mates hire out a council funded small room and dance to cds and mp3s . oh dear . what exactly does that make us ?. where do we fit in on your worthiness scale ?

[Ged Parker]

Some interesting perspectives here. Beeks I'd charge if I were you, you'd soon know the value others put on the night. Even if you give it all away to charity.

Reg makes a useful point in so much as it's the music that's important and we can all name nights we don't go to because we know they wouldn't suit us and I doubt (m)any of think about the entry cost when deciding where to go.

On Friday I travelled to the Disciples of Soul in Birmingham £25 in fuel, £14 overnight parking plus a night at the Holiday Inn. I've no idea how much it was to get in I didn't check before I went.

What I did know though was all the DJ's would be playing real records and I was pretty sure I'd hear something new that would make me stand up and take notice.

I could have gone local on the Saturday to a high profile event but stayed in instead. I've no idea how much it was to get into this night either could have been free and I probably still would have stayed home. It takes all sorts duunit

[Guest Beeks]

Some interesting perspectives here. Beeks I'd charge if I were you, you'd soon know the value others put on the night. Even if you give it all away to charity.

Can I ask why?

So long as you have a room full of your peers all having a great time isn't that what matters rather than the 'value' of your night? Surely the former denotes that value?

I appreciate the Charity angle though and it might be worth considering...maybe a few donation buckets or something

What I did know though was all the DJ's would be playing real records and I was pretty sure I'd hear something new that would make me stand up and take notice.

I think what you are getting at is from a soul perspective here Ged...the 'local' oldies nights around the country played off CDs and the like which I can understand I suppose

Out Of The Blue plays more underplayed/unknown stuff than most...although me and the residents own quite a lot of hotbox stuff we try and shy away from playing the 'biggies' for want of trying something different and playing stuff that tends to fly under the radar of some of the more established R&B clubs in the North

[Guest sarahleen]

The point of the thread is whether you do your night against other established nights that charge at the door which detracts local support away from those nights. If you do, do you not think a night such as yours may damage the local scene.

we club together . we hire a room at somewhere like a chuch community hall (sally army ect ) or the ymca is a good one or even a spare pub room though one pub we asked had just had the balliffs in, its still open though but you have to sit on the floor . the cheapest wev used was £7.50p an hour although some offer them free . we take stuff off youtube or emailed stuff ( rare and underplayed mostly ) onto mp3 or disc . sometimes theres only two of us . we just want to dance to northern soul . its usually on a weekday night or weekend days ,whenever wev got time . are we wrong ? (im not being sarcastic id genuinally like to know )

Edited October 27, 2009 by sarahleen

[Ged Parker]

Can I ask why?

So long as you have a room full of your peers all having a great time isn't that what matters rather than the 'value' of your night? Surely the former denotes that value?

I appreciate the Charity angle though and it might be worth considering...maybe a few donation buckets or something

I think what you are getting at is from a soul perspective here Ged...the 'local' oldies nights around the country played off CDs and the like which I can understand I suppose

Out Of The Blue plays more underplayed/unknown stuff than most...although me and the residents own quite a lot of hotbox stuff we try and shy away from playing the 'biggies' for want of trying something different and playing stuff that tends to fly under the radar of some of the more established R&B clubs in the North

The "why" is complex I guess. The equity in any brand (and like it or not Out of The Blue is a brand) is best measured in cash value benchmarked either against its competition or or its previous value. If the brand owner doesn't value it why would anyone else. Your door policy is devaluing your efforts IMHO. It makes me think that the night is just some background in a high street pub that could have anyone in it and if its a pub that can give the night away free at the weekend is this the type if Manchester pub I'd want to take my wife into? (I used to love the Beehive on Claremont Road on a Saturday but never took my wife in there) This is the perception it gives. A perception may be right or wrong but it is still a perception.

I suspect if I did go though I'd hear things to make me take notice and I have to wiegh that against the 'free night in a pub' perception which will stop me ever finding out.

I wasn't just refering to the local 'oldies off CD nights' there are some big venues that leave me cold.

[Guest sarahleen]

As stated, you do as you like as long as it doesn't detract from an established local night. I don't see us as guardians of a better life, just that most promoters get little or no return hiring halls & equipment, booking guests & staff, advertising and time, Charge £5 on the door and then finds out that someone with a cd player is doing the pub around the corner for free, I think he would have the right to be a little miffed don't you?

but with respect thats like blaming the punter for your self imposed and very limited music policy . why should we ( a paying customer) be obliged to support a local established (ovo) night if we dont like the music ? and then to boot (sorry ) be made to feel guilty if it fails ? . im seriously considering looking at rental property in our local countryside and starting up a "northern soul commune " .

ps there are people out there who dont want to be part of a "scene " or even to socialise , they just want to dance regardless of format .

[Goldsoul]

The "why" is complex I guess. The equity in any brand (and like it or not Out of The Blue is a brand) is best measured in cash value benchmarked either against its competition or or its previous value. If the brand owner doesn't value it why would anyone else. Your door policy is devaluing your efforts IMHO. It makes me think that the night is just some background in a high street pub that could have anyone in it and if its a pub that can give the night away free at the weekend is this the type if Manchester pub I'd want to take my wife into? (I used to love the Beehive on Claremont Road on a Saturday but never took my wife in there) This is the perception it gives. A perception may be right or wrong but it is still a perception.

I suspect if I did go though I'd hear things to make me take notice and I have to wiegh that against the 'free night in a pub' perception which will stop me ever finding out.

I wasn't just refering to the local 'oldies off CD nights' there are some big venues that leave me cold.

This isn't only confined to Soul Nights, a major Weekender is now that reliant on bar sales to keep it afloat, there are as many free passes as you like provided you bring along a bunch of mates who can drink enough ale to sink a battleship to show "Bar sales"! This is all well and good but where are the "True Souls"?

What a cheap

shot from the very two banned from the very weekender they are talking about !

If anybody creates bad politics it's you two!

[KevH]

Some venues charge 70's prices for admission.

If you give anything away on the scene there must be a "motive".We have our Anniversary as a freebie,a thank you to the folk who support us.

The rest of the year - Make 'em pay .

But if promoters are clashing purposely by putting on free nights,to attract punters away from an established night...shame on them.

No-one's mentioned the Charridy free night yet.Putting on a soul night under the guise of a Charity night,perhaps the only way of avoiding the flak from clashing..(not at all aimed at the real charity events).

[Guest Beeks]

The "why" is complex I guess. The equity in any brand (and like it or not Out of The Blue is a brand) is best measured in cash value benchmarked either against its competition or or its previous value. If the brand owner doesn't value it why would anyone else. Your door policy is devaluing your efforts IMHO. It makes me think that the night is just some background in a high street pub that could have anyone in it and if its a pub that can give the night away free at the weekend is this the type if Manchester pub I'd want to take my wife into? (I used to love the Beehive on Claremont Road on a Saturday but never took my wife in there) This is the perception it gives. A perception may be right or wrong but it is still a perception.

I suspect if I did go though I'd hear things to make me take notice and I have to wiegh that against the 'free night in a pub' perception which will stop me ever finding out.

I wasn't just refering to the local 'oldies off CD nights' there are some big venues that leave me cold.

Hmmm...I can understand a little of where you are coming from but just to clarify...although our night is in a pub...it is not in the main bar...it's in a seperate area around the back, so...although easily accessed from the bar it is pretty much shielded from the regular punters who might pop in for a pint...it's also quite off the beaten track...so there is absolutely no walk up trade at all...so generally if you want to go there you have to find it...the people we get are exactly the same people who go to all the R&B nights in Manchester...to them it is just an additional night they can enjoy

They come for the music not because it's free...most you are going to pay is £5/6 for an R&B night in Manc so it's hardly like they are saving much money...we have no competition in our area on the third Saturday so it hurts nobody

The value surely must be gauged by its popularity/music/general feedback?

I'm sure most will agree that it is hard enough making money from soul dos let alone the niche that is R&B. I can't speak for everyone but i'm sure only a handful of nights across the country are making any sort of profit to shout about in this genre...so the emphasis on 'Out Of The Blue' is just to have a great night with likeminded people...socialise...buy or swap the odd record and hopefully go home with a little extra cash in your back pocket

We're not doing any harm...we're just having fun

Edited October 27, 2009 by Beeks

[Rob Wigley]

[

What a cheap

shot from the very two banned from the very weekender they are talking about !

If anybody creates bad politics it's you two!

[Tony Foster]

I've got to be honest I haven't seen any free nights worth going to, that doesn't mean to say that they don't exist. However I know one thing in life you normally get what you pay for!!!

Nobody normally gives anything away for free that's good!

All the places I travel to you have to pay an admission price, I don't mind paying for quality and free admission doesn't determine the places I go to, it's the music that counts.

[Guest gordon russell]

free to get in means nowt at all.........a lot of these soul nites ought to be free they're so mediocre. Will always travel to a venue that l WANT to attend because of great music and great people......having said that going to lifeline on saturday ....how about it ANDY

[Rob Wigley]

I've got to be honest I haven't seen any free nights worth going to, that doesn't mean to say that they don't exist. However I know one thing in life you normally get what you pay for!!!

Nobody normally gives anything away for free that's good!

All the places I travel to you have to pay an admission price, I don't mind paying for quality and free admission doesn't determine the places I go to, it's the music that counts.

Try The Horse and Groom in Doncaster Tony-think you'll be surprised and you can even get the train over

Rob

[bri pinch]

THE HORSE AND GROOM AINT A FREE SOUL NIGHT ANYWAY..........IT,S A SUNDAY AFTERNOON SESSION

BRI PINCH.

OH AND IT'S STILL FREE

[Guest madkev]

as regards about you two being responsable about all the trouble by golden 101, i think thats a cheap shot by yourself , no one has given any names about weekenders or included any names of a weekender , but if the cap fits, i myself think that your a fine one to talk about underhand things , when a certian lady started calling yours on s, source , she was threatened with legal action, if your going on about the weekender i think you are , then why dont the promoters who run it , defend it, or are you in on the organising on that one too, and its a common practice by the promoters of said weekender to give away passes and accomadation to fill it and i know this as a fact, but thats not what the thread was about so why turn into that or is this just another witchhunt on your behalf ,, thanks kev

[Goldsoul]

as regards about you two being responsable about all the trouble by golden 101, i think thats a cheap shot by yourself , no one has given any names about weekenders or included any names of a weekender , but if the cap fits, i myself think that your a fine one to talk about underhand things , when a certian lady started calling yours on s, source , she was threatened with legal action, if your going on about the weekender i think you are , then why dont the promoters who run it , defend it, or are you in on the organising on that one too, and its a common practice by the promoters of said weekender to give away passes and accomadation to fill it and i know this as a fact, but thats not what the thread was about so why turn into that or is this just another witchhunt on your behalf ,, thanks kev

Meow!