Overseas Ns Scenes

[Guest chorleybloke]

There's no doubt that UK is, and always will be, the Northern Soul epicentre but I don't think anyone would argue that it has gone global over the past decade. So how do UK punters regard overseas scenes? On the same level - or with a condescending pat on the head ?

The reason I raise this was a thread a few months ago where somebody had got a totally inaccurate impression of the Australian scene, thinking we were barely past prehistoric, shuffling around in flip-flops to the Theme from Joe 90 whilst chucking shrimps on the barbie. Bit of an over-exaggeration but this view was based on limited first hand knowledge and got quickly clarified.

I'm biased of course but in my view the Aussie scene can now be defined as progressive and dare I say the truest (and biggest) Northern scene outside UK . This is clearly due to the fact that the audience consists of 95% ex-pat Brits from "proper" stock.

However this got me thinking that I'm probably just as guilty as the bloke who lambasted Oz NS in ignorance. For instance, my own snapshot view of other overseas scene is:-

Italy: Sub 30 average age, hardly any 60s sounds, more of a fashion parade.

Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette.

Spain: Proper NS and serious collectors (OK I have personal experience in Spain)

France: Well there's nowt down South where I'm currently based (except the odd cheap EP!) but weekenders up North

Scandinavia: Serious collectors but no gigs, its too far away

Japan: Will try anything for a lark but unsustainable

USA: Should be the top non-UK location but only a handful of serious punters

I'm sure I'm completely wrong and have no intention of insulting anyone but you know what they say about perceptions .

So my question is: do UK punters take any non-UK scenes seriously? Or is it just an opportunity to get a tan and lashed up with the benefit of good backing music ?

Cheers

Pete

[Guest dundeedavie]

You might not get a tan in the Republic Of Ireland,but we deserve to be taken seriously and we play good music,and to be honest l find you comments rather arrogant and not very well thought out...

i'm with you i feel Webby

[Guest Mark Holmes]

The scene in the USA struggles through its high and low points...we have had the British influence (Bev and Dave Moores Hitsville weekenders) which were incredible in every aspect. There was a really great high point with Central Soul Club in LA (Tommy Potts, Mike Umholtz, Dave Bywell) but it fizzled out. The one really bright spot for me at this time is the Emerald City Soul Club in Seattle which will be celebrating its 4th weekender. They run a monthly do there and pack em in every time.

Seattle is not anoraks or your typical NS event however it is hugely popular with a set of people who play some and dance to really good music. The dance floor is rammed although it is not typical Northern Dancing, the people just love to dance to 60's soul music. It is OVO and last year Junior McCants, Eddie Parker (I'm Gone) Eddie Daye (Guess who loves you) Patrinell Staten all hit the decks as well as many other huge favorites. As I have mentioned it is the 4th weekender this year and they have added another larger room at the venue. I'm travelling from Orlando again (uits my 3rd time) 7000 mile round trip for 4 days and 3 nights...its that good.

Will the US ever be able to hold a weekly soul event....dunno...this is a big place, as is Australia...and getting around ain't cheap.

Anyway who cares who is in the lead? On my deathbed I won't be wondering who won the race...I will be glad I was a competitor.

[Suinoz]

You might not get a tan in the Republic Of Ireland,but we deserve to be taken seriously and we play good music,and to be honest l find you comments rather arrogant and not very well thought out...

Very subtly put Webby, like your style mate. Tony T BONE. Spreading The Faith Down Under.

[Jim Elliott]

London.......no dancefloor etiquette since 1990.

Jim

[Guest Mark Holmes]

Nice post,mate! Suppose it's not like nipping to The Carlton is it?!

Exactly...you have to go far just to get to somewhere nearby

[George G]

The scene in the USA struggles through its high and low points...we have had the British influence (Bev and Dave Moores Hitsville weekenders) which were incredible in every aspect. There was a really great high point with Central Soul Club in LA (Tommy Potts, Mike Umholtz, Dave Bywell) but it fizzled out. The one really bright spot for me at this time is the Emerald City Soul Club in Seattle which will be celebrating its 4th weekender. They run a monthly do there and pack em in every time.

Seattle is not anoraks or your typical NS event however it is hugely popular with a set of people who play some and dance to really good music. The dance floor is rammed although it is not typical Northern Dancing, the people just love to dance to 60's soul music. It is OVO and last year Junior McCants, Eddie Parker (I'm Gone) Eddie Daye (Guess who loves you) Patrinell Staten all hit the decks as well as many other huge favorites. As I have mentioned it is the 4th weekender this year and they have added another larger room at the venue. I'm travelling from Orlando again (uits my 3rd time) 7000 mile round trip for 4 days and 3 nights...its that good.

Will the US ever be able to hold a weekly soul event....dunno...this is a big place, as is Australia...and getting around ain't cheap.

Anyway who cares who is in the lead? On my deathbed I won't be wondering who won the race...I will be glad I was a competitor.

I'm one of the 'residents' at the Emerald City Soul Club in Seattle.

We've continued to have a very successful monthly run averaging around 400 people. We've had some venue issues this year but as of now we are GO! and looking forward to a great Weekender!

I think that we have several advantages in our favor - a large population of people in their 20s and 30s who are open minded and looking for something that is fun and built from the ground up and doesn't have the sense of corporate overkill. People feel free to dance in their own way and there is no 'meat market' vibe. Seattle is also not too big and spread out (like LA) so the night is accessable, we have people who ride scooters and bikes there.

Generally speaking the crowd likes music that's uptempo and soulful. R&B and funky soul also does well. The slower records and popcorny things don't get much play. There's a seperate funk and boogie night (at the same place) that's also gaining a good crowd.

Keep in mind that people in the US have no history regarding rare soul or even many popular soul records. No one's gonna gripe about "too many oldies", or discuss which club or DJ was the first to play a record. There's none of the "Soul as a way of life" cultural identification that I see on this forum in the US. The one aspect that's a bit disappointing to me is that most of our crowd has little interest in the actual records, other than to enjoy them. I would be gratified if more people took an interest to learning about and collecting the records.

Hope to meet (again) some of you in three weeks!

BTW I have no idea what a 'punter' is...except for the American football players....

Edited October 24, 2009 by George G

[Guest DeeJay]

I'm one of the 'residents' at the Emerald City Soul Club in Seattle.

We've continued to have a very successful monthly run averaging around 400 people. We've had some venue issues this year but as of now we are GO! and looking forward to a great Weekender!

I think that we have several advantages in our favor - a large population of people in their 20s and 30s who are open minded and looking for something that is fun and built from the ground up and doesn't have the sense of corporate overkill. People feel free to dance in their own way and there is no 'meat market' vibe. Seattle is also not too big and spread out (like LA) so the night is accessable, we have people who ride scooters and bikes there.

Generally speaking the crowd likes music that's uptempo and soulful. R&B and funky soul also does well. The slower records and popcorny things don't get much play. There's a seperate funk and boogie night (at the same place) that's also gaining a good crowd.

Keep in mind that people in the US have no history regarding rare soul or even many popular soul records. No one's gonna gripe about "too many oldies", or discuss which club or DJ was the first to play a record. There's none of the "Soul as a way of life" cultural identification that I see on this forum in the US. The one aspect that's a bit disappointing to me is that most of our crowd has little interest in the actual records, other than to enjoy them. I would be gratified if more people took an interest to learning about and collecting the records.

Hope to meet (again) some of you in three weeks!

BTW I have no idea what a 'punter' is...except for the American football players....

The scene in the U.S. is it's infancy, it has to learn, and grow, and develop it's own way Seattle is an excellent example a growing scene. There are similar enclaves throughout the U.S. Momentum will grow, collectors and interest in all facets of the scene will develop. Remember the scene in the UK is 50+ years old. Here in the U.S.it's what? 10/15 years old I can personally attest to the quality of Seattle, Hitsville (florida) and L.A. Although L.A. does need picking up all have scenes that have showed potential. We just need to keep working building and influencing It may not be exactly like the scene in the UK but how could it be ? what created the scene, what forged he scene, and what influences(ed) the scene in the U.S. is different in many ways than the UK but i tell you what Where's the youngsters on the scene in the UK? what's the UK doing to bring the youngsters in? very little, "epicenteres" can move How will the scene in the UK be doing in 10=15=20 years. I'll be at Seattle -maybe a little biased as im djing there. But i'm very excited.

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

Hi Webby..... I don't think Pete's comments where meant to be either arrogant or offensive, I'm sure he'll be taken back that it came over that way, I'm afraid you've just experienced what we've been experiencing for years, regarded as some far flung backwater of un-knowlegable ex colonials who don't know jack shit.....in fact quite the contary, majority of the ex-pats here have a long history with the scene, both in the UK & here, although I will concede that some fabricate their 'history '......but I'm sure you get that there.

The recent copy of 'Where's That Beat' has an in depth look at Aussie released soul tracks with majority of imput from Nigel Loveless, a very knowledgable ex-pat collector/DJ which is fascinating reading & I'm sure you amongst others would be 'amazed' at what was released here...I know we are!....Pete also did an article on the same subject for Manifesto back in 2004.

I'm sure you have a vibrant, exciting scene as we do.......just not many people know about it, hopefully on a sabbatical back home I'll be able to nip across & sample it for myself.

KTF

Baz

You might not get a tan in the Republic Of Ireland,but we deserve to be taken seriously and we play good music,and to be honest l find you comments rather arrogant and not very well thought out...

Edited October 24, 2009 by bazabod_downunder

[Dave Moore]

I too was a little surprised that Pete's comments were construed as 'arrogant'. I have experience of the UK, US and the European 'scenes' (if you can call them that). Me...I'm more than happy 'dicking around'. It's not any 'scene' that is important to me, it's the music and the format.

Had quite a few people comment to me over the years that Hitsville was "Not what we expected". Many seem to think that 'Johnny foreigner' must be a pale comparison to what lots of UK people think is the only place soul music gets played. So long as the music's good and like minded folks wanna gather to hear it in a nice location, I'll crack on. The UK scene to me is just another bunch of people gathering to hear music. Same as any other. It holds no reverence for me, hasn't done for 20 years. In fact...sometimes the gigs I attend there disappoint in many ways. Especially after reading reviews in lookbacks on here!

One point I would make about the European scene especially, is that, in my experience, most do tend to 'lean' on the UK 'tried and tested' names for their DJ line. I know that tends to put me off some gigs. Can't understand why they don't unshackle their own collectors a little more, or search out 'new' collectors/DJs from UK a little bit more. Same trait as UK I suppose.

One thing is for sure....The age difference between EX Pat 'scenes' and the genuine locally born fans is more than noticeable outside UK. But then that's only natural I think. If you got 250 Ex Pats attending a European gig of 500 then I think quite a number of the locals would think it less 'cool' to be involved. Once again, same trait as UK eh?

Anywhere soul music is played should be encouraged, the amount of 'progressive devotees' in UK that have never left it's shores to either hunt down records or just to experience something new does make me laugh at times. Get out from yer comfort zones people, jump on a plane, see what's happening outside the UK's working men's clubs or upstairs pub rooms! You never know...it might put a smile back on some of your faces.

[Guest chorleybloke]

You might not get a tan in the Republic Of Ireland,but we deserve to be taken seriously and we play good music,and to be honest l find you comments rather arrogant and not very well thought out...

Webby,

Sounds like you may have misunderstood my post. I'm also non-UK and sometimes get the impression of being patronised, which is exactly why I wanted to trigger a discussion on the subject. I didn't mention Ireland because I know all about the quality of the Sleepless Nights events and to be honest I don't view the scene there as being any different from UK.

Cheers........Pete

[Guest]

Ireland = no allnighters not even a weekender.

Aus = no allnighters ?

England = plenty allnighters

Germany = allnighters

The essence of n'soul is the allnighter and dancing till dawn that is the scene,take them away you have nothing just a disco playing nsoul records.

Edited October 24, 2009 by ken

[Guest chorleybloke]

Ireland = no allnighters not even a weekender.

Aus = no allnighters ?

England = plenty allnighters

Germany = allnighters

The essence of n'soul is the allnighter and dancing till dawn that is the scene,take them away you have nothing just a disco playing nsoul records.

Australia = 3/4 allnighters a year + 2/3 weekenders plus plenty of airmiles!

[Guest]

Australia = 3/4 allnighters a year + 2/3 weekenders plus plenty of airmiles!

3/4 every week here thats your weekenders, 4/5 allnighers every weekend here and trillions of soul do's and dayers and stuff.

Edited October 24, 2009 by ken

[Lee Bates]

London.......no dancefloor etiquette since 1990.

Jim

Just coz you got your brogues scuffed ............. but I know where you are coming from

[Dave Rimmer]

There's no doubt that UK is, and always will be, the Northern Soul epicentre but I don't think anyone would argue that it has gone global over the past decade. So how do UK punters regard overseas scenes? On the same level - or with a condescending pat on the head ?

The reason I raise this was a thread a few months ago where somebody had got a totally inaccurate impression of the Australian scene, thinking we were barely past prehistoric, shuffling around in flip-flops to the Theme from Joe 90 whilst chucking shrimps on the barbie. Bit of an over-exaggeration but this view was based on limited first hand knowledge and got quickly clarified.

I'm biased of course but in my view the Aussie scene can now be defined as progressive and dare I say the truest (and biggest) Northern scene outside UK:thumbup: . This is clearly due to the fact that the audience consists of 95% ex-pat Brits from "proper" stock.

However this got me thinking that I'm probably just as guilty as the bloke who lambasted Oz NS in ignorance. For instance, my own snapshot view of other overseas scene is:-

Italy: Sub 30 average age, hardly any 60s sounds, more of a fashion parade.

Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette.

Spain: Proper NS and serious collectors (OK I have personal experience in Spain)

France: Well there's nowt down South where I'm currently based (except the odd cheap EP!) but weekenders up North

Scandinavia: Serious collectors but no gigs, its too far away

Japan: Will try anything for a lark but unsustainable

USA: Should be the top non-UK location but only a handful of serious punters

I'm sure I'm completely wrong and have no intention of insulting anyone but you know what they say about perceptions .

So my question is: do UK punters take any non-UK scenes seriously? Or is it just an opportunity to get a tan and lashed up with the benefit of good backing music ?

Cheers

Pete

Completely wrong about Germany. R & B is popular, but no more so than in the UK. The German scene is I would guess (Having DJ'ed in Germany, Italy, France, and Ireland) the biggest outside the UK. There are at least four weekenders a year, the biggest (Baltic Soul) covers the whole spectrum of Soul from 60s through to current stuff, and puts some pretty good live acts on as well, with well over 1500 in attendance. Nuremberg, which is the one I have DJ'ed at most, regularly attracts 600 to 700 people every December, and has been running about 15 years now. The first Hamburg weekender had neary a 1000 in on the Saturday, including around 60 Brits. (Sorry Bamberg, never been:thumbup:) There are also regular Soul nights and allnighters all across the country (Some of which have been running nearly twenty years now)

I hadn't realised that the Australian scene was attracting numbers like this to support your claim that it's the biggest outside the uk

There are also some very serious collectors and DJs out there as well. People who would be able to slot into the line up of any allnighter in the world.

Hmm, yeah quite a lot do get shitfaced though

Wrong about Italy as well. The Vicenza allnighter and the Pisa allnighters have a heavy Sixties bias, and again quite serious collectors and DJs.

I've just come back from France. Very few regular events I'm afraid, but the ones who do run things are both committed and passionate collectors and DJs

Spain, never DJ'ed there, (But would love to) but know enough Spanish lads to agree with what you say.

Ireland, both Belfast and Dublin (DJ'ed in both several times) - As you said, just as busy, passionate, as the UK, but with a real party vibe going all the time. They really do go out to enjoy themselves rather than moan about so and so playing Oldies and so and so playing Modern.

Scandanaia, never been, but there is something on in Oslo every year, Ginger Taylor DJs out there regularly, and I think Butch has been over a couple of times.

Japan and the States, never been. My one remaining ambition as a Northern Soul DJ is to DJ at an allnighter in the States, sort of taking it full circle if you know what I mean

Australia, never been, they're all descended from convicts anyway . But is there an Australian Northern scene ? Or is it just an extension of the UK scene ? If you took all the ex-pats away, how many would be left ? Seriously though, I think the way the different cities all run their own soul nights through the year and then take it in turns to host the annual weekender is great.

[ImberBoy]

DEINE LIEBE IST WUNDERBAR

Ignorance can be bliss but it can also give untrue or at least unfair perceptions of other countries "Soul Scene's".

Before the internet was common place and before there was any words such as "Born again Soulies", way before every one was a CD cover expert, way, way before it was trendy and safe, there were real hard corps soul fans who did travel and work hard to promote and keep the faith.

Every time I went to a Soul Weekender back in the lean years there was always a strong presence from Ireland and Germany

The Australian Soul Scene has been well and truly established for many years now and certainly before the Wigan Casino Reenactment Society began!

I bet most reading this didn't even get out of the house during the nineties?

Like I said in my opening sentence, ignorance can be bliss, I was often annoyed at the lack of dance floor etiquette on the German scene, that was until I cam back to England to see beer being spilled on the dance floors by Trev's n Shazzer's. I used to think that the dance floor in the UK was hallowed ground until I saw a lady sling a complete tub of talk onto the floor and then remained seated for the rest of the night.

My attitude has changed and I am less ignorant now, Overseas Ns Scenes serious or just dicking about? I think most of the UK scene is "Just dicking about"

P.S I'd love to do an Ireland Nighter and I miss the German Scene like mad.

[Guest]

Hello Everybody Comrade Moustache here!

New York!! Something on 4 or 5 times a week, and in Subway Soul a monthly all nighter playing a mixture of rare, oldies and R and B (check website and myspace page) I went to Subway Soul at the old Fontanas location (they've moved to Brooklyn now) and was (at 45) one of the oldest there! In addition I was complemented on my (not very good)dancing by 3 goergous young New York girls! Subway is one of the best nights out I've had on this or any other scene!

They also have a weekender at the end of August in Brooklyn each year. And a crazy sort of mini nighter10- 4am on a Thursday in a retro hair dressers in Brooklyn which appeared to feature 1 DJ (James Tobin take a bow!) playing rare up tempo 60's. See my photo's in Gallery (sorry crap at links).

God I love New York!

Amsterdam/Netherlands (note not Holland as this forms only 2 of the provinces in the Netherlands).

Amsterdam Soul Club 3rd Saturday of Month. Rare and Oldies youngish dancefloor. We' re going again on 19th December!

Comrade Moustache (Suit sponsored by Seymours of York back in 5 minutes)

[Soulboy69]

Anywhere soul music is played should be encouraged, the amount of 'progressive devotees' in UK that have never left it's shores to either hunt down records or just to experience something new does make me laugh at times. Get out from yer comfort zones people, jump on a plane, see what's happening outside the UK's working men's clubs or upstairs pub rooms! You never know...it might put a smile back on some of your faces.

This is how i feel myself!

Interesting post.

Being from Ireland, i regard myself as on the 'outside looking in' as far as the Northern Soul scene is concerned but just as passionate as Soul fans in the U.K.

To me, that's what it's all about - Passion!

I, for one, plan to sample as many countries as possible in the future and then make my own judgement.

Edited October 24, 2009 by soulboy69

[Soulboy69]

Ireland, both Belfast and Dublin (DJ'ed in both several times) - As you said, just as busy, passionate, as the UK, but with a real party vibe going all the time. They really do go out to enjoy themselves rather than moan about so and so playing Oldies and so and so playing Modern.

My point exactly Dave.

[Rich B]

Not taking overseas northern soul scenes seriously? I don't even take anything south of Watford seriously! It's called "northern" soul for a reason you know, my car doesn't even like being driven further south than Leicester....and before you all jump on me, I'm only joking!

If you love soul music, who cares where you are? and who cares what anyone else thinks anyway?

best,

RB

[stomper45]

Ireland = no allnighters not even a weekender.

Aus = no allnighters ?

England = plenty allnighters

Germany = allnighters

The essence of n'soul is the allnighter and dancing till dawn that is the scene,take them away you have nothing just a disco playing nsoul records.

Licensing laws here mean its impossible to have an allniter, no proper weekender but make do with our 2 days anniversary.

Personally have always preferred the tunes and craic over the time of day the last record plays, be it 3am or 8, must dash off to our disco

[Guest]

l knew all that,mate,but l might need another lift off Ken again someday so l didn't want to upset him in anyway!!

I know loads of Irish folk all nice except Irish Gregg i'm just saying at the heart of our scene is the allnighter if you cant have 'em what can you do have the craic and invite me to dj

[Andreas]

Italy: Sub 30 average age, hardly any 60s sounds, more of a fashion parade.

Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette.

Spain: Proper NS and serious collectors (OK I have personal experience in Spain)

France: Well there's nowt down South where I'm currently based (except the odd cheap EP!) but weekenders up North

Scandinavia: Serious collectors but no gigs, its too far away

Japan: Will try anything for a lark but unsustainable

USA: Should be the top non-UK location but only a handful of serious punters

way back that I laughed that much

[rswells]

Seatttle has a great thing going on! I can vouch for that as well.

I spin at the Ann Arbor Soul Club in Michigan. We get around 400 people through the door every month as well: typically, it's folks of all ages at our party, looking to come out, have a good time, and dance to soul 45s. We're coming up on our 3-year anniversary in December, wsg Mr. Fine Wine. As in Seattle, there's no real concern for whether or not we're playing "oldies" or certain 45s championed by certain UK/European DJs. I would say that a decent amount of the folks in our crowd do collect records, and that our night has definitely turned some people on to collecting soul 45s as well. In this last respect, I think it helps our cause that we're in Michigan, where there still are records to be had.

In the "midwest" here in the USA we have the following nights run by "serious" American collectors, plus many more that I'm sure I'm leaving out:

Ann Arbor Soul Club - Ann Arbor, MI

Magic City Soul Club - Detroit, MI

Windy City Soul Club - Chicago, IL

Title Town - Pittsburgh, PA

Gold Label Soul - Lawrence, KS

Hipshaker - Minneapolis, MN

Hotpants - Minneapolis, MN

The Get On Up Soul Club - Milwaukee, WI

North By Midwest - Milwaukee, WI

The Soul Hole - Milwaukee

More funk-inspired nights where you would still here some soul sounds mixed in would include:

Funk Night - Detroit

The Get Down - Milwaukee

Sheer Magic - Chicago

Edited October 25, 2009 by rswells

[Billywhizz]

There's no doubt that UK is, and always will be, the Northern Soul epicentre but I don't think anyone would argue that it has gone global over the past decade. So how do UK punters regard overseas scenes? On the same level - or with a condescending pat on the head ?

The reason I raise this was a thread a few months ago where somebody had got a totally inaccurate impression of the Australian scene, thinking we were barely past prehistoric, shuffling around in flip-flops to the Theme from Joe 90 whilst chucking shrimps on the barbie. Bit of an over-exaggeration but this view was based on limited first hand knowledge and got quickly clarified.

I'm biased of course but in my view the Aussie scene can now be defined as progressive and dare I say the truest (and biggest) Northern scene outside UK . This is clearly due to the fact that the audience consists of 95% ex-pat Brits from "proper" stock.

However this got me thinking that I'm probably just as guilty as the bloke who lambasted Oz NS in ignorance. For instance, my own snapshot view of other overseas scene is:-

Italy: Sub 30 average age, hardly any 60s sounds, more of a fashion parade.

Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette.

Spain: Proper NS and serious collectors (OK I have personal experience in Spain)

France: Well there's nowt down South where I'm currently based (except the odd cheap EP!) but weekenders up North

Scandinavia: Serious collectors but no gigs, its too far away

Japan: Will try anything for a lark but unsustainable

USA: Should be the top non-UK location but only a handful of serious punters

I'm sure I'm completely wrong and have no intention of insulting anyone but you know what they say about perceptions .

So my question is: do UK punters take any non-UK scenes seriously? Or is it just an opportunity to get a tan and lashed up with the benefit of good backing music ?

Cheers

Pete

Germany R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette. Thats utter bollocks.

Billy

[Tomangoes]

Hello Everybody Comrade Moustache here!

New York!! Something on 4 or 5 times a week, and in Subway Soul a monthly all nighter playing a mixture of rare, oldies and R and B (check website and myspace page) I went to Subway Soul at the old Fontanas location (they've moved to Brooklyn now) and was (at 45) one of the oldest there! In addition I was complemented on my (not very good)dancing by 3 goergous young New York girls! Subway is one of the best nights out I've had on this or any other scene!

They also have a weekender at the end of August in Brooklyn each year. And a crazy sort of mini nighter10- 4am on a Thursday in a retro hair dressers in Brooklyn which appeared to feature 1 DJ (James Tobin take a bow!) playing rare up tempo 60's. See my photo's in Gallery (sorry crap at links).

God I love New York!

Jammy get. EVERYBODY LOVES NEW YAK. Dint that DJ onky du some stuff thear, with a few legends?

Amsterdam/Netherlands (note not Holland as this forms only 2 of the provinces in the Netherlands).

Amsterdam Soul Club 3rd Saturday of Month. Rare and Oldies youngish dancefloor. We' re going again on 19th December!

Comrade Moustache (Suit sponsored by Seymours of York back in 5 minutes)

[Guest chorleybloke]

Completely wrong about Germany. R & B is popular, but no more so than in the UK. The German scene is I would guess (Having DJ'ed in Germany, Italy, France, and Ireland) the biggest outside the UK. There are at least four weekenders a year, the biggest (Baltic Soul) covers the whole spectrum of Soul from 60s through to current stuff, and puts some pretty good live acts on as well, with well over 1500 in attendance. Nuremberg, which is the one I have DJ'ed at most, regularly attracts 600 to 700 people every December, and has been running about 15 years now. The first Hamburg weekender had neary a 1000 in on the Saturday, including around 60 Brits. (Sorry Bamberg, never been:thumbup:) There are also regular Soul nights and allnighters all across the country (Some of which have been running nearly twenty years now)

I hadn't realised that the Australian scene was attracting numbers like this to support your claim that it's the biggest outside the uk

There are also some very serious collectors and DJs out there as well. People who would be able to slot into the line up of any allnighter in the world.

Hmm, yeah quite a lot do get shitfaced though

Wrong about Italy as well. The Vicenza allnighter and the Pisa allnighters have a heavy Sixties bias, and again quite serious collectors and DJs.

I've just come back from France. Very few regular events I'm afraid, but the ones who do run things are both committed and passionate collectors and DJs

Spain, never DJ'ed there, (But would love to) but know enough Spanish lads to agree with what you say.

Ireland, both Belfast and Dublin (DJ'ed in both several times) - As you said, just as busy, passionate, as the UK, but with a real party vibe going all the time. They really do go out to enjoy themselves rather than moan about so and so playing Oldies and so and so playing Modern.

Scandanaia, never been, but there is something on in Oslo every year, Ginger Taylor DJs out there regularly, and I think Butch has been over a couple of times.

Japan and the States, never been. My one remaining ambition as a Northern Soul DJ is to DJ at an allnighter in the States, sort of taking it full circle if you know what I mean

Australia, never been, they're all descended from convicts anyway . But is there an Australian Northern scene ? Or is it just an extension of the UK scene ? If you took all the ex-pats away, how many would be left ? Seriously though, I think the way the different cities all run their own soul nights through the year and then take it in turns to host the annual weekender is great.

Ey up Dave how's it going?

Thanks for putting the record straight. It kind of proves my point that it's dangerous to form opinions based on reading snippets in magazines - ie, my own perceptions are completely wide of the mark as I originally predicted.

Numbers-wise I'd say Australia has somewhere around 1000 enthusiasts if you say conservatively 200 per scene so it sounds like you're right about Germany being the more active non-UK country. And yes, obviously more than 90% of the Aussies are UK expats, or "Pozzies" as the locals like to call us

It's all good

Cheers...........Pete

[deanosounds]

I'm one of the 'residents' at the Emerald City Soul Club in Seattle.

We've continued to have a very successful monthly run averaging around 400 people. We've had some venue issues this year but as of now we are GO! and looking forward to a great Weekender!

I think that we have several advantages in our favor - a large population of people in their 20s and 30s who are open minded and looking for something that is fun and built from the ground up and doesn't have the sense of corporate overkill. People feel free to dance in their own way and there is no 'meat market' vibe. Seattle is also not too big and spread out (like LA) so the night is accessable, we have people who ride scooters and bikes there.

Generally speaking the crowd likes music that's uptempo and soulful. R&B and funky soul also does well. The slower records and popcorny things don't get much play. There's a seperate funk and boogie night (at the same place) that's also gaining a good crowd.

Keep in mind that people in the US have no history regarding rare soul or even many popular soul records. No one's gonna gripe about "too many oldies", or discuss which club or DJ was the first to play a record. There's none of the "Soul as a way of life" cultural identification that I see on this forum in the US. The one aspect that's a bit disappointing to me is that most of our crowd has little interest in the actual records, other than to enjoy them. I would be gratified if more people took an interest to learning about and collecting the records.

Hope to meet (again) some of you in three weeks!

BTW I have no idea what a 'punter' is...except for the American football players....

George I'm glad to see that their have been some in roads made towards northern soul in the USA. I live in Boston and we only have one soul night that has a regular crowd and northern is really not played which drives me crazy. The venue also only has a capacity of 58 people. I have done a few soul nights in small places as well and none of them have ended up being successful. Hopefully sometime in the near future Boston will have a geart soul night!

[Samson]

"Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette."

Could be said for some of the US nights too.

[ALIVE'N'KICKIN]

"Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette."

Could be said for some of the US nights too.

spot on kind sir, spot on. But theres nothing like seeing a bunch of idiotic hipsters pretend they are in a scene from dirty dancing

[Dylan]

Australia = 3/4 allnighters a year + 2/3 weekenders plus plenty of airmiles!

if you have 3/4 of an all nighter and it is due to finish at 8am does that mean you have to send eveybody home at 4am

[Chris L]

Italy: Sub 30 average age, hardly any 60s sounds, more of a fashion parade.

Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette.

Spain: Proper NS and serious collectors (OK I have personal experience in Spain)

France: Well there's nowt down South where I'm currently based (except the odd cheap EP!) but weekenders up North

Scandinavia: Serious collectors but no gigs, its too far away

Japan: Will try anything for a lark but unsustainable

USA: Should be the top non-UK location but only a handful of serious punters

I'm sure I'm completely wrong

Pete

Well in my experience you're right AND wrong.

Italy - when I've been it's been all 60s R & B, Arthur Fenn type stuff, real rare mostly crap sounds with the odd

oldie chucked in for the UK beerbellies. Of course being Italain everything is a fashion parade, why not. Serious

nah...

Germany - Spot on (have you been peeking ?)

France-Scandinavia-Japan appear to be on the mark.

USA - well now that's real intersting, in Chicago there were those US DJs all around late teens early 20s with

a collection to make your eyers water. They draw 500+ crowds, they don't call them NS events but the

music they play sure is NS alright.

Australia - the scene is flips flops, sandy beach dance floors and Denny Johnson generally farting about

UK - There are no people like UK NS people, boy do they take their scene seriously!! If they took their

economy as serious the UK would be another Switzerland (without the yoddeling & lederhousen). With

the million or so people who have passed through the scene over the last 40 years it's not really surprising.

What about the Irish ??????

Chris L writing to you from sunny Belgium (no NS scene but a thriving Popcorn revival one - as nutty as any

NS scene but with chips, mayonaise & cold beer )

[jocko]

Well in my experience you're right AND wrong.

Italy - when I've been it's been all 60s R & B, Arthur Fenn type stuff, real rare mostly crap sounds with the odd

oldie chucked in for the UK beerbellies.

Have you actually ever listened to Arthur, R&B, what are you on?? That description is so the opposite of reality that I would assume if you had the guile you were being funny! Good thing it sort of confirms you are out of your depth giving opinionns on anything other than 12 records played in 1973 and check shirts. I really need to stop looking in here, it leaves me chortling manically to myself all day and getting strange looks from my workmates.

Interesting that the 2 most ridiculous, xenophobic, arrogant, yes they were arrogant, and stereotypical comments on here come from English ex-pats. Having lived as an expat myself for 2 years I shouldnt be surprised but its nice to see you sum up why so many English expats are disliked world wide.

Off to listen to Joseph Websters latest R&B smash on Crow now.....

[Guest stash313]

I've got to stand up for Germany in this and really can't understand some of the comments, I've worked twice in germany now. Both in Frankfurt as part of the up-tight weekenders which celebrated its final event and incidently tenth anniversary earlier this year.

To label Germany simply as R&B based and to refer to everyone as shit faced is doing the place a great dis service and even if only in jest is complete and utter bollocks.

Admitedly I've only experienced one of the many events Germany has to offer but have also worked with and engaged with many people from across Germany and who take the Soul scene (note not Northern) in Germany very seriously. The event that I DJyed at lasted three days and featured three distinct days of different styles. Friday was R&B, Blues and early Northern Saturday two rooms of Up front Modern and Soulful House with a classic Northern room to boot, whilst the sunday featured Crossover and 70's Soul through to new releases.

So to label a whole country's scene in one fail swoop as R&B based isn't really valid is it?

[Barry]

Cracking post and answers chaps.

[Guest]

I've got to stand up for Germany in this and really can't understand some of the comments, I've worked twice in germany now. Both in Frankfurt as part of the up-tight weekenders which celebrated its final event and incidently tenth anniversary earlier this year.

To label Germany simply as R&B based and to refer to everyone as shit faced is doing the place a great dis service and even if only in jest is complete and utter bollocks.

Admitedly I've only experienced one of the many events Germany has to offer but have also worked with and engaged with many people from across Germany and who take the Soul scene (note not Northern) in Germany very seriously. The event that I DJyed at lasted three days and featured three distinct days of different styles. Friday was R&B, Blues and early Northern Saturday two rooms of Up front Modern and Soulful House with a classic Northern room to boot, whilst the sunday featured Crossover and 70's Soul through to new releases.

So to label a whole country's scene in one fail swoop as R&B based isn't really valid is it?

Yeh and when i have been there,i'm the only one shitfaced (gear).

[jocko]

Oh and I should say I have experienced all-nighters in Italy, France, Spain and Germany so in answer to original question is yes your perception is bollocks, Germany in particular being the most adventurous and successful musically, with a majority of unbelievably enthusiastic, knowledgeable and friendly people, ANd for taking it serious, I think the amount of people taking time to go out and combine good music with great local culture answers that surely.

Your perception is bollocks since you are making assumptions based on your background rather than your experience, very typical ex-pat attitude I would have to say.

I am now interested in seeing these Australian progressive playlists, as the limited amount of current empirical evidence, e.g. Manifesto and on here, doesn't back up this claim, so it would be good to have these perceptions at least challenged before I book my flight out!

[Wrongcrowd]

There's no doubt that UK is, and always will be, the Northern Soul epicentre but I don't think anyone would argue that it has gone global over the past decade. So how do UK punters regard overseas scenes? On the same level - or with a condescending pat on the head ?

The reason I raise this was a thread a few months ago where somebody had got a totally inaccurate impression of the Australian scene, thinking we were barely past prehistoric, shuffling around in flip-flops to the Theme from Joe 90 whilst chucking shrimps on the barbie. Bit of an over-exaggeration but this view was based on limited first hand knowledge and got quickly clarified.

I'm biased of course but in my view the Aussie scene can now be defined as progressive and dare I say the truest (and biggest) Northern scene outside UK . This is clearly due to the fact that the audience consists of 95% ex-pat Brits from "proper" stock.

However this got me thinking that I'm probably just as guilty as the bloke who lambasted Oz NS in ignorance. For instance, my own snapshot view of other overseas scene is:-

Italy: Sub 30 average age, hardly any 60s sounds, more of a fashion parade.

Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette.

Spain: Proper NS and serious collectors (OK I have personal experience in Spain)

France: Well there's nowt down South where I'm currently based (except the odd cheap EP!) but weekenders up North

Scandinavia: Serious collectors but no gigs, its too far away

Japan: Will try anything for a lark but unsustainable

USA: Should be the top non-UK location but only a handful of serious punters

I'm sure I'm completely wrong and have no intention of insulting anyone but you know what they say about perceptions .

So my question is: do UK punters take any non-UK scenes seriously? Or is it just an opportunity to get a tan and lashed up with the benefit of good backing music ?

Cheers

Pete

Full marks for the most condescending, back-slapping, jingoistic and almost entirely incorrectly stated thread on this site in a very long time.

[Chris L]

Have you actually ever listened to Arthur.

Many times, he is one of the worlds most lovely people, I usually leave the room after about 15/20 minutes

cos the stuff that gets played maybe real rare like, but a load of ald tat to my ears..........

Chris L

[Chris L]

Interesting that the 2 most ridiculous, xenophobic, arrogant, yes they were arrogant, and stereotypical comments on here come from English ex-pats. Having lived as an expat myself for 2 years I shouldnt be surprised but its nice to see you sum up why so many English expats are disliked world wide.

Oh BTW I'm not an ex-pat, I have lived longer in Belgium that I ever did in the UK, I have Irish-British citizenship, I'm totally

integrated into the Flemish culture speaking, reading & writing it, I pay my 50%+ taxes to the Belgian government, own a house, etc I also speak French & German. Most of the arrogant daft dopey stuff that gets posted on internet sites tend to

come from the Johnny come lately NS "fans" chin stroking, gotta be rare, only 3 know copies brigade. I once got a CD

from one to, in his own words "educate me" (sgns of a communist re-education camp maybe ?) when I played it it was

more akin to cha-cha, rock & roll & deep south blues. No sorry I'd rather listen to The Fascinations, Formations, Dobie

Grey and the Impressions all day & night that that "real rare" garbage. You pays your money and yous takes your choice.

Right, best get back to my Eurobaguette met kaas...................

[Modernsoulsucks]

Wouldn't the "acid test" be which new to us records are played over here that have been popular on overseas NS scenes. Im not including popcorn or beach in that.

ROD

[ImberBoy]

Chris L once tried to touch me up.

[Chris L]

Chris L once tried to touch me up.

I failed becuse he wouldn't take Euros, bet you wished you had now.......................

[Paul-s]

Hi,

well i would say that the only progressive djs in OZ, and ive djed there alot, are Sam Goldie, Alex White, Callum and Frankie Driscoll and a couple moreetc...

I found the rest of it to be oldies orientated and a bit nostalgic.

Anyway, i think you are underestimating the USA, Scandanavia and Japan....having attended events in all of these countries i would say they are way ahead of OZ. Mainly because they have no preconceptions or dogma attached to their choices of music...they just play soulful dance music, be it, funk based or 60s.

BUT having said that , OZ isnt alone in lagging behind, because the UK is also lagging behind.. these guys. WE can learn a lot and thats what i mean by dogma!! The attitude that

"we were there at the beginning, so we know best and our definition of what it is, is the dogs b-llocks"

We seem to be stuck in a rut in this country and venues are a bit too afraid to GO FOR IT and try to embrace fully whats happening in the wider world of soul/funk quality 60/70s music. They are too stuck in dogmatic definitions of genres and still wheel out the same djs week after week! Not that thats a bad thing, but to me a lot of the djs seem even more bored than the punters....

Thats obviously just my opinion..But i have to say, ive had much more fun abroad (including OZ) in the last few years than in the UK and heard a wider and better choice of music too...! Dont overlook the enthusiasm and passion and soul of these younger guys.....

[Barry]

We seem to be stuck in a rut in this country and venues are a bit too afraid to GO FOR IT and try to embrace fully whats happening in the wider world of soul/funk quality 60/70s music.

By 'WE', I guess you mean people who attend NS venues or call themselves into NS?

[ImberBoy]

Stuck in a rut in this country?

Are you seriously suggesting that there is another country that is superior to us in breaking records, collecting records, dancing to records, having the knowledge of the records?

You need to get out more mate!

Whilst I raise a glass to other nations, and I respect there love for Northernsoul, please please please pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee do not even try to compare them to the UK scene!!!!

Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves... well not waves, but certainly Northernsoul!!!

I can't say this from any "I DJ'd there for two hours" experience. I aint been on holiday in Oz and I haven't got a mate who knows some ones Granny in Japan!

The day I stand on the dance floor in any UK Northern venue listening to a DJ telling me that "This record has just broken big in _____insert country_______ "Then I will get on the next jet outta here.

Foreign soul, well done, good drills, glad you like our dancing, enjoy.

DJ's n record collectors who visit, have a good un, spin a few, pick up some duty free's, come home and stop fibbing, its abroad, not the other side of the moon and it's a small world!

[Samson]

spot on kind sir, spot on. But theres nothing like seeing a bunch of idiotic hipsters pretend they are in a scene from dirty dancing

Hah! You're right about the hipsters, though they're amusing at best.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Samson

[Paul-s]

Stuck in a rut in this country?

Are you seriously suggesting that there is another country that is superior to us in breaking records, collecting records, dancing to records, having the knowledge of the records?

You need to get out more mate!

Whilst I raise a glass to other nations, and I respect there love for Northernsoul, please please please pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee do not even try to compare them to the UK scene!!!!

Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves... well not waves, but certainly Northernsoul!!!

I can't say this from any "I DJ'd there for two hours" experience. I aint been on holiday in Oz and I haven't got a mate who knows some ones Granny in Japan!

The day I stand on the dance floor in any UK Northern venue listening to a DJ telling me that "This record has just broken big in _____insert country_______ "Then I will get on the next jet outta here.

Foreign soul, well done, good drills, glad you like our dancing, enjoy.

DJ's n record collectors who visit, have a good un, spin a few, pick up some duty free's, come home and stop fibbing, its abroad, not the other side of the moon and it's a small world!

Brilliant. Almost see the advert on TV..

[Suinoz]

There's no doubt that UK is, and always will be, the Northern Soul epicentre but I don't think anyone would argue that it has gone global over the past decade. So how do UK punters regard overseas scenes? On the same level - or with a condescending pat on the head ?

The reason I raise this was a thread a few months ago where somebody had got a totally inaccurate impression of the Australian scene, thinking we were barely past prehistoric, shuffling around in flip-flops to the Theme from Joe 90 whilst chucking shrimps on the barbie. Bit of an over-exaggeration but this view was based on limited first hand knowledge and got quickly clarified.

I'm biased of course but in my view the Aussie scene can now be defined as progressive and dare I say the truest (and biggest) Northern scene outside UK . This is clearly due to the fact that the audience consists of 95% ex-pat Brits from "proper" stock.

However this got me thinking that I'm probably just as guilty as the bloke who lambasted Oz NS in ignorance. For instance, my own snapshot view of other overseas scene is:-

Italy: Sub 30 average age, hardly any 60s sounds, more of a fashion parade.

Germany: R&B predominant, everybody shitfaced, no dancefloor etiquette.

Spain: Proper NS and serious collectors (OK I have personal experience in Spain)

France: Well there's nowt down South where I'm currently based (except the odd cheap EP!) but weekenders up North

Scandinavia: Serious collectors but no gigs, its too far away

Japan: Will try anything for a lark but unsustainable

USA: Should be the top non-UK location but only a handful of serious punters

I'm sure I'm completely wrong and have no intention of insulting anyone but you know what they say about perceptions .

So my question is: do UK punters take any non-UK scenes seriously? Or is it just an opportunity to get a tan and lashed up with the benefit of good backing music ?

Cheers

Pete

IF ONLY !!!!