Guest Gogs Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 just listened to the wade flemon and susan maughan versions back to back and must say that i prefer susan's version which do you prefer? maybe need to start a poll but will see how this goes first gogs
Pete S Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I like both but the perfect one would be Wade's voice on Susan's backing track
45cellar Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 I like both but the perfect one would be Wade's voice on Susan's backing track Wade Flemons - That Other Place - (Sound Clip From Refosoul Archive) Susan Maughan - That Other Place - (Sound Clip From Refosoul Archive)
Guest the dukester Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Susan for me, prefer the female vocals!!
Chalky Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Wade Flemmon's all the tme. Susan Maughan's vocls too poppy for me, remeinds me of Pet CLarke Wade Flemmons vocals far far superior but I suppose the backin let's it down for the dancers although I would prefer to hear Wade's version out to Susan's.
Douglaschip Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Wade Flemmon's all the tme. Susan Maughan's vocls too poppy for me, remeinds me of Pet CLarke Wade Flemmons vocals far far superior but I suppose the backin let's it down for the dancers although I would prefer to hear Wade's version out to Susan's. Agree - Definately Wade Flemmons version - great lyrics - sounded great out last time I heard it. Think Mick Lloyd played it in a mid tempo spot at Soulfusion a couple of years ago and the floor was full!!
boba Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Wade Flemons - That Other Place - (Sound Clip From Refosoul Archive) Susan Maughan - That Other Place - (Sound Clip From Refosoul Archive) i've never heard this susan maughan version before but i wouldn't even call it a soul record, like it would be pleasant to hear in the grocery store maybe
Guest Gogs Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 4-3 in susan's favour at the moment with pete sitting on the fence
Shsdave Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 4-3 in susan's favour at the moment with pete sitting on the fence Jesus make that 4-4! Susans is a pleasant enough tune if you're into 60 pop music, nothing wrong with that I like some don't want to hear it played out though. But how anyone can prefer it to Wades version is beyond me. Have another listen & tell me which one has balls ?.............I'm talking about the record!
Godzilla Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 It's that old "I only like soul records" argument again isn't it. If all that mattered was the vocal we'd all have been dancing to acapellas all these years. Which reminds me - Paul Anka's version of 'Can't help Loving You' or Jimmy Breedlove's? One a bona fide black R&B artist and the other a white teen artist. Just happens that Anka's had a better backing track and arrangement really, don't you think? And it was aimed at the soul music buying audience when it released
Shinehead Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 Wade for me . Atmospheric soul record, Susan pure pop .
boba Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 It's that old "I only like soul records" argument again isn't it. If all that mattered was the vocal we'd all have been dancing to acapellas all these years. Which reminds me - Paul Anka's version of 'Can't help Loving You' or Jimmy Breedlove's? One a bona fide black R&B artist and the other a white teen artist. Just happens that Anka's had a better backing track and arrangement really, don't you think? And it was aimed at the soul music buying audience when it released your snoring emoticon doesn't address the more specific point that this is not just a pop record but the type of pop record that I might hear in a grocery store, not a storming dance pop record. it might be nice and soulish, like petula clark's "downtown", but it's not close to a soul record. the backing track isn't much better than wade flemons either, which I think is also central to the point you're trying to make. neither record is really a dance record anyways, but one is an excellent soul record and one is a pleasant pop record.
Guest s0ul45 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 "it might be nice and soulish, like petula clark's "downtown", but it's not close to a soul record. the backing track isn't much better than wade flemons either, which I think is also central to the point you're trying to make. neither record is really a dance record anyways, but one is an excellent soul record and one is a pleasant pop record." Summed up perfectly.
Soulfreak Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 "it might be nice and soulish, like petula clark's "downtown", but it's not close to a soul record. the backing track isn't much better than wade flemons either, which I think is also central to the point you're trying to make. neither record is really a dance record anyways, but one is an excellent soul record and one is a pleasant pop record." Summed up perfectly. Yes, strongly agree. I hadn't heard Susan Maughan's version before, and with luck I'll never heard it again, pure pet Clark pop that sucks the 'soul' out of the song. Had to listen to Wade a few times to purge Maughan's version out of my head.... Martin.
Godzilla Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 your snoring emoticon doesn't address the more specific point that this is not just a pop record but the type of pop record that I might hear in a grocery store, not a storming dance pop record. it might be nice and soulish, like petula clark's "downtown", but it's not close to a soul record. the backing track isn't much better than wade flemons either, which I think is also central to the point you're trying to make. neither record is really a dance record anyways, but one is an excellent soul record and one is a pleasant pop record. To be honest, Bob, I was being a bit mischievous as I have no firm favourite and can see merits in both recordings. My comments about dance records was a more general point aimed at the idea that that the one recorded by a black artist automatically has to be superior. Doesn't wash when you're specifically discussing 'Northern Soul' as opposed to what the general public regard as Soul or Rhythm & Blues. Hence the reference to Paul Anka Vs Jimmy Breedlove - and I haven't seen a raft of votes in favour of Breedlove yet. To be fair, you were making general points too. Unless 'grocery store pop' really is a genuine identifyiable genre - in which case I like it and might start collecting it. Not kiddding about really liking the backing track Susan Maughan's version though. Growing up with Dusty Springfield records has given me an appreciation for Ivor Raymonde's slightly over the top production style and it does the businesss for me. I can understand how non-Brits might not be able to relate to it however. Finally, none of this has anything to do with the fact that I'll be listing some records for sale on here this week including a virtually mint condition copy of the Susan Maughan 45. Paul
boba Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 To be honest, Bob, I was being a bit mischievous as I have no firm favourite and can see merits in both recordings. My comments about dance records was a more general point aimed at the idea that that the one recorded by a black artist automatically has to be superior. Doesn't wash when you're specifically discussing 'Northern Soul' as opposed to what the general public regard as Soul or Rhythm & Blues. Hence the reference to Paul Anka Vs Jimmy Breedlove - and I haven't seen a raft of votes in favour of Breedlove yet. To be fair, you were making general points too. Unless 'grocery store pop' really is a genuine identifyiable genre - in which case I like it and might start collecting it. Not kiddding about really liking the backing track Susan Maughan's version though. Growing up with Dusty Springfield records has given me an appreciation for Ivor Raymonde's slightly over the top production style and it does the businesss for me. I can understand how non-Brits might not be able to relate to it however. Finally, none of this has anything to do with the fact that I'll be listing some records for sale on here this week including a virtually mint condition copy of the Susan Maughan 45. Paul I agree with your points, and I don't dislike the susan m record either, it's just a pleasant pop record to me.
KevH Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) It's that old "I only like soul records" argument again isn't it. If all that mattered was the vocal we'd all have been dancing to acapellas all these years. Which reminds me - Paul Anka's version of 'Can't help Loving You' or Jimmy Breedlove's? One a bona fide black R&B artist and the other a white teen artist. Just happens that Anka's had a better backing track and arrangement really, don't you think? And it was aimed at the soul music buying audience when it released Is that true? Paul Anka's pr team/RCA aimed it at a soul music buying audience.Thought it was just coincidence that "we" picked it up. Edited October 12, 2009 by KevH
Munchkin Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 :thumbup: your snoring emoticon doesn't address the more specific point that this is not just a pop record but the type of pop record that I might hear in a grocery store, not a storming dance pop record. it might be nice and soulish, like petula clark's "downtown", but it's not close to a soul record. the backing track isn't much better than wade flemons either, which I think is also central to the point you're trying to make. neither record is really a dance record anyways, but one is an excellent soul record and one is a pleasant pop record.
Godzilla Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Is that true? Paul Anka's pr team/RCA aimed it at a soul music buying audience.Thought it was just coincidence that "we" picked it up. Wondered if anybody would pick up on that claim, Kev. Yes it's true. I thought the same as you until I found this: "That driving Detroit beat" sounds like it was aimed at people who bought uptempo soul music don't you think?
Pete S Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 4-3 in susan's favour at the moment with pete sitting on the fence Well if I have to get off the fence I'd prefer Susan Maughans version, I've always kept a copy of that and sold numerous copies of Wade Flemons.
KevH Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Wondered if anybody would pick up on that claim, Kev. Yes it's true. I thought the same as you until I found this: "That driving Detroit beat" sounds like it was aimed at people who bought uptempo soul music don't you think?
Northern Soul Uk Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I thnk the Susan Maughan is the best in my humble opinion, and it has been dance floor proven. I played it at the Irish centre in Leeds and the floor was full, and afterwards a guy came up and said that it was the best tune that had been played all night, and before you say it, there were some awesome tunes played throughout the night. saying that, everyone has their own preferences and i like both versions, but I tip on the side of Susan's version.
Guest Gogs Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 ok my arithmetiic (AND SPELLING) may be out but i make it 11-10 to susan, i might try this with a couple of other inc "picture me gone" & "got to find a way" will you reply? ps as chairman my vote counts double, in case i've mis=counted
boba Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 ok my arithmetiic (AND SPELLING) may be out but i make it 11-10 to susan, i might try this with a couple of other inc "picture me gone" & "got to find a way" will you reply? ps as chairman my vote counts double, in case i've mis=counted There is a poll feature on any post you can set up where it will let users vote and keep a tally for you
Guest Gogs Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 thanks boba but as i said in my first post i didn't know what the re-action would be but i will utilise the poll feature in next threads which might stir up similar comments as i've got some interesting ones to choose between
mischief Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 ok my arithmetiic (AND SPELLING) may be out but i make it 11-10 to susan, i might try this with a couple of other inc "picture me gone" & "got to find a way" will you reply? ps as chairman my vote counts double, in case i've mis=counted Well 11-10 means you have had 21 votes so far so i'll add mine i've heard both version out .. Wades version is the version we are used to... but i'll go with Susan ...
George G Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Wondered if anybody would pick up on that claim, Kev. Yes it's true. I thought the same as you until I found this: "That driving Detroit beat" sounds like it was aimed at people who bought uptempo soul music don't you think? There wasn't really such a thing as the 'uptempo soul audience' in the US - at the time this was still 'teenage music' and the primary market was 'top 40', most of which were for and by teenagers and young adults. There were R&B stations as well that I'm sure RCA was hoping for airplay but the real idea was to get Anka to sound like a current act and back on the charts. They could have easily made something with the "California beat". By 1967 he was looked at as an 'oldies' act and needed a fresh sound. He wasn't aiming to get onto the 'chitlin circuit' or headline at the Apollo.
Geoff Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 While I like both versions I'd always pick Wade Flemons as my favourite. However lyrically the song is more for a woman than a man imo. As regards Paul Anka's I Can't Help Loving You, I'm not sure what year it was issued, but around 1965, 66 67 plenty of white singers were trying to get a "souly" sound on their records, hoping to hit the charts, some did and some didn't. Examples would include Len Barry's 1-2-3, the Newbeats' Run Baby Run, and the Four Seasons' Let's Hang On. Those stick in my mind because they always seemed to be played together in clubs I went to, but there were others, Bobby Goldsboro's It's Too Late may have been of that era, but I never heard it back then.
jocko Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 It's that old "I only like soul records" argument again isn't it. If all that mattered was the vocal we'd all have been dancing to acapellas all these years. Yes those pesky soul fans only liking soul records and even worse only wanting to talk soul records, what is the world coming to, they are so selfish. Godz if it wasn't you I would ignore the statement but you know better!! How about Muriel Day or Mary Love for the next conversation!! Havent these been done to death on some psuedo intellectual Phil Spector or Beach Boys site, sure there are lots out there more suited for this. IMO, and I do feel the need to give it given what seems to be the current backlash against any sort of soul fans on this soul site, SM is a pile of crock in any sort of soul sense, it it was 1974 I would maybe go for the better beat only, but it isn't so lets move on. And yes I am having a crap morning having forgot to smuggle my gin in my Highland Spring bottle.
Pete S Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Yes those pesky soul fans only liking soul records and even worse only wanting to talk soul records, what is the world coming to, they are so selfish. Godz if it wasn't you I would ignore the statement but you know better!! How about Muriel Day or Mary Love for the next conversation!! Havent these been done to death on some psuedo intellectual Phil Spector or Beach Boys site, sure there are lots out there more suited for this. IMO, and I do feel the need to give it given what seems to be the current backlash against any sort of soul fans on this soul site, SM is a pile of crock in any sort of soul sense, it it was 1974 I would maybe go for the better beat only, but it isn't so lets move on. And yes I am having a crap morning having forgot to smuggle my gin in my Highland Spring bottle. Don't take it so seriously, it's only a record!
gazman Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Wade for me. Just sounds better to my ears. gary
jocko Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Don't take it so seriously, it's only a record! No its soul, more important than life or death or even Hibernian © Bob Shankly
Garethx Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Some interesting perspectives on the debate but I will say that the hardest part in creating a great record is transforming good songwriting with some kind of spark in the performance and arrangement. Generally speaking this is something which takes place with most power in the original released version of a song. Covers can be great records in their own right, but only when something is added which the original artist, arranger or producer failed to capture completely. Records like the Susan Maughan 45 are competent and polished copies of the US originals but in the main simply mimic the process of turning the base material to gold, as it were. For me maybe the best example of a UK artist taking an American original and actually improving it is Truly Smith's version of Carolyn Crawford's "My Smile Is Just A Frown" on Decca. I'm sure it will be a sacrilegious view to many but to my ears Ms. Smith's performance tweaks the melody and actually improves the whole thing hugely. Carolyn Crawford's version seems stiff and flat by comparison but I can't think of many other examples off the top of my head where this was the case. Edited October 13, 2009 by garethx
Guest rovers Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Wade Flemmon's all the tme. Susan Maughan's vocls too poppy for me, remeinds me of Pet CLarke Wade Flemmons vocals far far superior but I suppose the backin let's it down for the dancers although I would prefer to hear Wade's version out to Susan's. Me too.100% better.
Guest Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) They're both pop records one by a black artist and one by a white artist. Edited October 13, 2009 by ken
grant Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Me too.100% better. theres no right or wrong with these comparisons, each to ones own taste and usually for different reasons, wades more soulful, susans more danceable.
Godzilla Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Yes those pesky soul fans only liking soul records and even worse only wanting to talk soul records, what is the world coming to, they are so selfish. Godz if it wasn't you I would ignore the statement but you know better!! How about Muriel Day or Mary Love for the next conversation!! Havent these been done to death on some psuedo intellectual Phil Spector or Beach Boys site, sure there are lots out there more suited for this. IMO, and I do feel the need to give it given what seems to be the current backlash against any sort of soul fans on this soul site, SM is a pile of crock in any sort of soul sense, it it was 1974 I would maybe go for the better beat only, but it isn't so lets move on. And yes I am having a crap morning having forgot to smuggle my gin in my Highland Spring bottle. Blimey - bad day and a half Jock! Take a look at my follow up post and you'll notice that I was teasing a bit. However, I still don't see why you can't love soul music and still appreciate well crafted pop. And acknowledge that, in the surreal world of Northern Soul, those tunes can have a place. I don't see any backlash against people who like the music - just a couple of threads where some people have said they don't always prefer the black version to the white. Variety of opinion and all that old chap. On the other hand though, Mrs G says that she sometimes thinks I like records more than I like music, in which case my opinions are all probably invalid anyway.. Besides, I've always thought Muriel Day was bobbins you cheeky git. And you can call me 'psuedo' all you want, but 'intellectual' is fighting talk
Bossfourpart1 Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 just listened to the wade flemon and susan maughan versions back to back and must say that i prefer susan's version which do you prefer? maybe need to start a poll but will see how this goes first gogs I have both versions and i prefer Wade Flemon to listen to. As far as looks go i prefer to look at Susan Maughn rather than Wade . Both tracks are good regardless. cheers Frank
boba Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 thanks boba but as i said in my first post i didn't know what the re-action would be but i will utilise the poll feature in next threads which might stir up similar comments as i've got some interesting ones to choose between i'm in chicago, i know how important it is to control the voting
boba Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 susan also better looking wade's version had the dells on it. wade was in earth wind and fire. susan's version did not have the dells on it. susan was never in earth wind and fire. so there.
Guest john s Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 wade was in earth wind and fire. susan was never in earth wind and fire. That's another vote for Susan then!
boba Posted October 14, 2009 Posted October 14, 2009 That's another vote for Susan then! oh snap you did not just go there
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