Charity Event Or For Profits

[Carol Phyllis]

I was wondering if people go to charity soul nights specifically because they are a charity event or if that is just coincidental?

Does it make a difference to anyones choice of venue or is it just by the by?

[ImberBoy]

I think it's absolutely fantastic if some one sorts out a do for charity and I would do my best to support it.

[Citizen P]

I think it's absolutely fantastic if some one sorts out a do for charity and I would do my best to support it.

As would I.

But, just to kink the question slightly-

Do you think the DJ's should work a Charity Do for free??

Tony

[Stevie]

As would I.

But, just to kink the question slightly-

Do you think the DJ's should work a Charity Do for free??

Tony

I think they should be paid.

However, should they choose to donate some, or all, of their payment to the charity, then that's for them to decide.

[Harry Crosby]

I attend and support as many charity events as i can, and if i`m asked am honoured to dj/ help in any way,these lads n lasses do a fantastic job raising money for various charities https://www.freewebs.com/yksoul/ and long may they continue imho

[Ernie Andrews]

The Djs should not be paid and should also if asked offer a record or 2 for the raffle

The recently cancelled one by Jayne (Miss Burysoul) I was Djing at.

I was coming from Aberdeen to Manchester at my own expense and still will when the date is re-arranged. & I was bringing items for the raffle and I dont expect any money but Just a good night out thats all.

The Charity that Jayne is doing it for happpens to be very close to my heart and its one way to give back to Christies for all the fabulous care they gave my father in his last weeks.

So A charity event should be just that everything goes to the Charity full stop!

Steve

Edited October 8, 2009 by Ernie Andrews

[Jumpinjoan]

Makes no difference to me whether it is charity or not.

That said, unless it is a charity close to my heart or one that a mate is involved with, it would usually be down to the DJ's that are on as to whether I would go or not.

Oh, and DJ's they should not expect to get paid for a charity do. Shame on you!

[Carol Phyllis]

Makes no difference to me whether it is charity or not.

That said, unless it is a charity close to my heart or one that a mate is involved with, it would usually be down to the DJ's that are on as to whether I would go or not.

Oh, and DJ's they should not expect to get paid for a charity do. Shame on you!

I echo everything you've said there Joan.

Was just interested in seeing how many others felt the same

[ImberBoy]

As would I.

But, just to kink the question slightly-

Do you think the DJ's should work a Charity Do for free??

Tony

I couldn't give a Monkees to be honest just as long as there is some dosh going towards a worthy cause.

You couldn't expect a top flight DJ to travel the length of the country every weekend to do a charity bash. We all have bills to pay.

[Wrongcrowd]

As would I.

But, just to kink the question slightly-

Do you think the DJ's should work a Charity Do for free??

Tony

Absolutely.....

[Pete Eccles]

Charity events are all well and good, but what I find sometimes irritating is when a previously unused venue has a big push for such an event, DJ's invited to play for free, raffles prizes donated etc and when you get there the place is covered in flyers and posters advertising all future (non charity) events at the venue, or worse, the organisers make out the initial night was so good it would be a shame not to run regular nights (non charity) at the venue, when you kinda know that was the intention all along,

Can't help feeling the charity and the DJ'S have been used as a springboard to get the venue/event on the map so to speak, maybe me being cynical but it does happen,

But in general it is great to see events genuinly giving up time and money for worthwhile causes

[Liljimmycrank]

I was wondering if people go to charity soul nights specifically because they are a charity event or if that is just coincidental?

Does it make a difference to anyones choice of venue or is it just by the by?

Recently attended the Soul In the Sun charity night in Keighly.

Was a good night, great music following the SIS theme re music policy, so you knew what to expect.

All DJ's played for free, as Eddie always makes this the case for his charity events, and proceeds (including raffles etc) go to cancer research.

Eddie does boat loads of stuff for this charity, and i would indeed support charity nights, but like Joan said, only if musically it was to my taste, or perhaps a charity close to my heart.

Interesting the point in the title about profits......Not many of the 'smaller' do's (mainly non nighter events) make profits these days, and if they do most just re-invest into the night (through promo, records, DJ's which may cost more etc).

Azza

Edited October 8, 2009 by LilJimmyCrank

[Jumpinjoan]

I couldn't give a Monkees to be honest just as long as there is some dosh going towards a worthy cause.

You couldn't expect a top flight DJ to travel the length of the country every weekend to do a charity bash. We all have bills to pay.

I'm pretty sure the key word here is charity

If DJ's aren't prepared to be charitable then all they have to say is I'm a tight wad and I won't do it for nothing.

The whole point of promoting a charity event is to raise as much money as possible for charity.

I would tell any DJ who expected to be paid to do one! Charitably of course

[Md Records]

I know people who have done very nicely out of charity events, if it's "All profits go to Charity". I could quite easily put on a charity night, charge £200 expenses for my D.J. services, £200 for hire of my Kit, £50 travelling Expenses etc, etc. and once I've come up with an "Expense List" then, yes, all the profits (if any) would go to Charity - SCANDALOUS!! Totally in favour of worthwhile events, and have, and WILL wholeheartedly support them. D.J.'s charging, for chucking on a few "Oldies" for an Hour, my Kids can do that, it's not Rocket Science, get off your high horses, any muppet with 25 out of the Northern Soul "Top 500" can do it - Of course D.J.'s should do Charity events for Nothing, as long as the promoter also isn't making on the event, and they are asked to D.J.on that basis.There are some fantastic charitable events, let's give THEM the support, and Cash they deserve.

Des Parker

Edited October 8, 2009 by SOUL.INC

[jocko]

Can't help feeling the charity and the DJ'S have been used as a springboard to get the venue/event on the map so to speak, maybe me being cynical but it does happen,

I think you are not being cynical, in fact being a little too nice, personally I think its just a further push of the local scenes into the replacement for British Legions around the country, far too many are cynically promoted, far too many of them are on, and at least a few as evidenced on here, morally, if not actually financially, are using the charity as a method of just getting a night on, that they coincidentally are DJing at.

And before I get brickbats, not against doing stuff for charity, in fact very for it, in the right circumstancese just think people are being morally manipulated by promoters, and obviously not all people fit this scenario, but I would suggest a lot do.....

Just a further dumbing down of the "scene(s)" IMO!

[Jumpinjoan]

I think you are not being cynical, in fact being a little too nice, personally I think its just a further push of the local scenes into the replacement for British Legions around the country, far too many are cynically promoted, far too many of them are on, and at least a few as evidenced on here, morally, if not actually financially, are using the charity as a method of just getting a night on, that they coincidentally are DJing at.

And before I get brickbats, not against doing stuff for charity, in fact very for it, in the right circumstancese just think people are being morally manipulated by promoters, and obviously not all people fit this scenario, but I would suggest a lot do.....

Just a further dumbing down of the "scene(s)" IMO!

I would like to say you are wrong Jock, but you are probably right in some cases. Not all though.

When I put that do on for Pete last year, I did initially think about putting it on for charity. Well, for all of five seconds.

I knew all the hassle it would cause and that it would only detract from the day so I decided to pay for it myself.

Charity is a very emotive subject and it has to be done right. Of course there will be costs but these should be limited to essentials such as room hire, equipment, flyers etc.

The costs that were incurred at a recent charity event in Wellingborough just seem excessive to me.

If you don't make any money out of a night you advertise as being for charity - can you really call it a charity night?

[Ged Parker]

As a punter for me it's ALMOST always about the music and so who the DJ's are. However I would go out of my way to support a charity event for the causes that are close to me in which case I'd put up with any kind of music in any location.

DJ's should never charge for supporting a charity night, promotors shouldn't take expences and the venue should be waiving a hire fee. I agree with Steve they should also be donating for the raffle.

Can remember donating a LARGE cuddly rabbit for the raffle at a charity do I was asked to DJ at; the person that won it sold it to someone else who really wanted it and then donated the money to the charity.

That's the type of behaviour that should set a charity do apart.

[macca]

I think it's another sign of approaching mortality. As we pass middle age and enter the third phase of our lives, we become more aware of the need for solidarity, compassion, altruism etc; After all, charity events were pretty thin on the ground in the 70's, weren't they? DJs should of course donate their fees if they decide to accept a booking where it's clear that all proceeds are going to a named charity. I also think that all bar takings/profits should be donated, then we'd really see how sincere people were, wouldn't we?

[Harry Crosby]

I think it's another sign of approaching mortality. As we pass middle age and enter the third phase of our lives, we become more aware of the need for solidarity, compassion, altruism etc; After all, charity events were pretty thin on the ground in the 70's, weren't they? DJs should of course donate their fees if they decide to accept a booking where it's clear that all proceeds are going to a named charity. I also think that all bar takings/profits should be donated, then we'd really see how sincere people were, wouldn't we?

of course your correct here, i remember yksouls charity all dayer at the university of york, the costs incurred by the university were ridiculous, to the point where the yksoul team were having kittens before the event, and after a great turn out and all the effort they put in some monies did go to the charities, personally i`m with you all taking should be given to the chosen charities including bar profits & venue fees, but i suppose everyones not as like minded as some of us, and the almighty pound rules at the end of the day

[Ged Parker]

of course your correct here, i remember yksouls charity all dayer at the university of york, the costs incurred by the university were ridiculous, to the point where the yksoul team were having kittens before the event, and after a great turn out and all the effort they put in some monies did go to the charities, personally i`m with you all taking should be given to the chosen charities including bar profits & venue fees, but i suppose everyones not as like minded as some of us, and the almighty pound rules at the end of the day

Personally I'd draw the line at asking the venue to give up it's profits from bar sales but would ask them for a donation or some raffle prizes. Getting a 'clean' figure for the profit from a bar would be almost impossible and even if it could be done it would be commercially sensitive.

[macca]

Some promotors today use the charity tag as a lure though, don't they?

If, as a result of hyping the charity aspect of the event, they get a

bigger turnout than normal, diverting a given percentage of the kitty

isn't really going to financially challenge them in any way. I'm of the

opinion that all proceeds should be donated, from the booking fee for

the hall to all DJ fees and all bar and door takings. Any other arrangement

just smacks of opportunism to me.

[Harry Crosby]

Personally I'd draw the line at asking the venue to give up it's profits from bar sales but would ask them for a donation or some raffle prizes. Getting a 'clean' figure for the profit from a bar would be almost impossible and even if it could be done it would be commercially sensitive.

yeh thats a better way of putting it ged

[macca]

It would be difficult if we're talking about the calculation of profit, but I'm talking about a chuck jackson scenario of handing it over (the lot), even charging people a special fee to use the khasi. I'm serious. I'm involved with someone who gives a month of her annual holidays to improve the lives of the less fortunate and it pisses me off that the airlines don't donate the airfares and excess baggage fees for all the medical equipment for the group. they can afford it and so can we. :-)

Edited October 8, 2009 by macca

[Jumpinjoan]

Some promotors today use the charity tag as a lure though, don't they?

If, as a result of hyping the charity aspect of the event, they get a

bigger turnout than normal, diverting a given percentage of the kitty

isn't really going to financially challenge them in any way. I'm of the

opinion that all proceeds should be donated, from the booking fee for

the hall to all DJ fees and all bar and door takings. Any other arrangement

just smacks of opportunism to me.

In an ideal world maybe. But it isn't going to happen.

The chances of finding a venue that will waive it's hire fee and donate the bar takings to the cause is going to be nigh on impossible.

Unless of course the charity is close to their heart.

Do you know a venue that would do that? I don't.

It goes without saying that all door takings and DJ's fees should go to the charity.

[Ged Parker]

It would be difficult if we're talking about the calculation of profit, but I'm talking about chuck jackson scenario of hand it over (the lot), even charging people a special fee to use the khasi. I'm serious. I'm deeply involved with someone who gives a month of her annual holidays to improve the lives of the less fortunate and it pisses me of that the airlines don't donate the airfares and excess baggage fees for all the mediacal equipment for the group. they can afford it.

If I may say so Macca that's nieve. The typical conversion rate in a 'good' bar operation is between 10 and 15% no one is going to consider running a night that the busier it is the more money it costs them. If a venue takes £3k they would be foregoing around £300-£450 in profit which is one thing but handing over £3k is another. I't be about £2,600 ish anyway or is the VAT man donating his cut?

[macca]

Then I'm a naive old git then Ged. I guess common sense must prevail in the end. After all, acts of charity can be simple gestures rather than giving the shirt off your back. The airline thing does work me up though... :-)

[Carol Phyllis]

Some promotors today use the charity tag as a lure though, don't they?

If, as a result of hyping the charity aspect of the event, they get a

bigger turnout than normal, diverting a given percentage of the kitty

isn't really going to financially challenge them in any way. I'm of the

opinion that all proceeds should be donated, from the booking fee for

the hall to all DJ fees and all bar and door takings. Any other arrangement

just smacks of opportunism to me.

That's why I asked the question initially, does the charity hype make a difference to which venue you decide to go to?

So far not many seem to think it does!

[Jumpinjoan]

That's why I asked the question initially, does the charity hype make a difference to which venue you decide to go to?

So far not many seem to think it does!

There is also the issue about which charity it is.

Some people won't support animal charities. Whereas others will only support charities that do work in this country.

It is an emotive subject. Anything could happen

[Iancsloft]

As would I.

But, just to kink the question slightly-

Do you think the DJ's should work a Charity Do for free??

Tony

=======================================================================

I have always done charity do,s for nothing in fact many times they have cost me quite a bit of dosh to do

but as long as it goes to a worthy cause ie like the Torch Reunion Ryan Hall do i aint bothered..

Myself & Carl Farrington did a do few years ago we printed the flyers arranged the dj,s--equipment and venue packed the place solid in Leigh made plenty dosh and it all got handed over...

Money aint everything !!!

[Ged Parker]

Then I'm a naive old git then Ged. I guess common sense must prevail in the end. After all, acts of charity can be simple gestures rather than giving the shirt off your back. The airline thing does work me up though... :-)

Not a "naive old git" but perhaps an idealist.

Over the last 6 months there have been an average of over 36 licensed outlets a week closing down so they'll take what business they can. Sometimes for the venues that's opportunism more often its a way to keep the wolves from the door.

[Goldsoul]

There is also the issue about which charity it is.

Some people won't support animal charities. Whereas others will only support charities that do work in this country.

It is an emotive subject. Anything could happen

Charity eh.....a very convenient way for some promoters to sail on by unoticed.

I've counted tons of 'charity' events conveniently running off hundreds of CDs to give away on various nights.

It's totally bollixed the niche market of cd sales, yet everyone turns a blind eye!

We are not in the music business anymore, but still find it hypocritical to see a fair few on here continually getting success at venues simply working the old 'first 100 get a free cd'

If you ever thought vinyl reissues were bad, check out the reams of 'anniversary and charity cds' currently handed out gigs and sold openly too! Vinyl is minor believe me to this almost accepted epidemic.

[Jumpinjoan]

Charity eh.....a very convenient way for some promoters to sail on by unoticed.

I've counted tons of 'charity' events conveniently running off hundreds of CDs to give away on various nights.

It's totally bollixed the niche market of cd sales, yet everyone turns a blind eye!

We are not in the music business anymore, but still find it hypocritical to see a fair few on here continually getting success at venues simply working the old 'first 100 get a free cd'

If you ever thought vinyl reissues were bad, check out the reams of 'anniversary and charity cds' currently handed out gigs and sold openly too! Vinyl is minor believe me to this almost accepted epidemic.

Any reason why you have singled out my post for your rant?

I don't run a charity event, or any event for that matter, and I certainly don't sell CD's!

[Tony Foster]

Makes no difference to me whether it is charity or not.

That said, unless it is a charity close to my heart or one that a mate is involved with, it would usually be down to the DJ's that are on as to whether I would go or not.

Oh, and DJ's they should not expect to get paid for a charity do. Shame on you!

Well said Joan, totally agree!!!

[Naughty Boy]

As would I.

But, just to kink the question slightly-

Do you think the DJ's should work a Charity Do for free??

Tony

DJ For Free they dont have to do it

Some Promoters not all mind say this is in aid of this and that ,but never does a cheque or thankyou letter from the relevant charity appear seen it many times over the years

Rob

Edited October 8, 2009 by Naughty Boy

[Wrongcrowd]

I'm with these guys....we should all do our bit for charriddy...

[Wrongcrowd]

I'd only get involved in a charity event with someone that I knew well and trusted....there are chancers out there that promote under the guise of charity with less moral values than politicians with duck houses....

[KevH]

Some new events clash with other venue's.Answer?.Make it a charity night.If anyone complains,,well,,they are just heartless....are'nt they? .

Free cd's - why not? i'm sure most people are'nt lured in by the cd alone. Probably going anyway.

As for Kev R's comments,do you mean the content is below par,or the recordings? Seems to me if you give something away you're a bad 'un as well........................

[Trev Thomas]

Charity eh.....a very convenient way for some promoters to sail on by unoticed.

I've counted tons of 'charity' events conveniently running off hundreds of CDs to give away on various nights.

It's totally bollixed the niche market of cd sales, yet everyone turns a blind eye!

We are not in the music business anymore, but still find it hypocritical to see a fair few on here continually getting success at venues simply working the old 'first 100 get a free cd'

If you ever thought vinyl reissues were bad, check out the reams of 'anniversary and charity cds' currently handed out gigs and sold openly too! Vinyl is minor believe me to this almost accepted epidemic.

oh, you're back are you mr roberts, can you say hand on heart , that all the tracks released on goldmine / soul supply were legitiitmly licenced ???????

[Goldsoul]

Any reason why you have singled out my post for your rant?

I don't run a charity event, or any event for that matter, and I certainly don't sell CD's!

Joan. Not at all. I'm just sounding off, as this type of activity is overlooked and it actually the main reason I am no longer in CDs. I simply cannot sell them due to the easy access of 'charity discs'

[Goldsoul]

oh, you're back are you mr roberts, can you say hand on heart , that all the tracks released on goldmine / soul supply were legitiitmly licenced ???????

We are discussing things surrounding charity events.

Free CDs given away are bang out of order in my humblest of opinions.

No fault laid on the punter

For the record,I vacated my position at Goldmine several years ago. I was an employee not the head honcho!

Now back to Charidee.....

Edited October 8, 2009 by The Golden 101

[Trev Thomas]

We are discussing things surrounding charity events.

Free CDs given away are bang out of order in my humblest of opinions.

No fault laid on the punter

For the record,I vacated my position at Goldmine several years ago. I was an employee not the head honcho!

Now back to Charidee.....

you still havn't answered the question....... you obviously disagree with c.d's being given out at charity nights because they infringe copyright, but can you honestly say hand on heart that you have never been involved with a c.d or vinyl release that has not infringed copyright, a simple yes or no will suffice

[Wrongcrowd]

We are discussing things surrounding charity events.

Free CDs given away are bang out of order in my humblest of opinions.

No fault laid on the punter

For the record,I vacated my position at Goldmine several years ago. I was an employee not the head honcho!

Now back to Charidee.....

So it's "bang out of order" to hand out a few CDs gratis at a soul night, but perfectly ok to commercially sell 1000's without licernsing and fair dues to the recording artsists; licensees and publishers.....talk about kettle and pot.....it's politicians and duck houses again...

[pikeys dog]

DJ For Free they dont have to do it

Some Promoters not all mind say this is in aid of this and that ,but never does a cheque or thankyou letter from the relevant charity appear seen it many times over the years

Rob

Totally agree Rob, it's very easy to say "we raised £xxx for Charity then pocket the lot", which is why Shane posts up a copy of the receipt from "Weston Park" after every event we do...

We also ask DJs who are only willing to do the spot for free.

blatent plug:

60s Soul @ The Redhouse - all proceeds to Weston Park Cancer Appeal.

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/107486-redhouse-sheffield/page__p__1164578__hl__redhouse__fromsearch__1entry1164578

[Guest]

I agree with KR on the cd's mullarky,i dont think its good and a little tacky i just give 'em away or lose 'em not one for cd's anyway although i have a few good one's that are real

[Kevinkent]

DJ For Free they dont have to do it

Some Promoters not all mind say this is in aid of this and that ,but never does a cheque or thankyou letter from the relevant charity appear seen it many times over the years

Rob

I agree, there should be more transparency. It doesn't have to be on this site but there should be some breakdown of expenditure/profits.

I ran a charity event earlier in the year which I announced as "all profits to charity". Having run this regionally for a newly formed organisation I handed over just short of £1800 on the day to the organisation. I sincerely hope that it's all gone direct to charity and not, as rumoured, partly to fund further such events. My event was made possible by good fortune, a sympathetic venue, unpaid dj's, and due to a loss by myself which I was happy to concede. I just wish that some recognition from our nominated charity had been published on the organisations website in order to allay the rumours.

Would I run another charity bash? Yes, but I think there are easier and more effective ways of raising money for charity.

Would I attend an event just because it was a charity fund-raiser? No (for the same reason as above), but I'd certainly go out of my way if the charity was close to my heart, and if the event was "right up my street" that would be an added bonus.

Fair play to all those honest guys who are organising charity events - I know it's not easy, and your efforts a commendable.

- Kev

[Bossfourpart1]

As would I.

But, just to kink the question slightly-

Do you think the DJ's should work a Charity Do for free??

Tony

At the Norwich Backstreet soul club the Djs work for free . Some travel as far a Derby to support the event here . Admittedly a majority of the local Djs only live at most 40 miles away.

I think given the number of Djs out there and providing they are not traveling hundreds of miles and stopping over in accomodation they should work for free. (thats it , i've started something now )

good topic , i will follow this with interest.

regards Frank

Edited October 8, 2009 by Bossfourpart1

[Goldsoul]

So it's "bang out of order" to hand out a few CDs gratis at a soul night, but perfectly ok to commercially sell 1000's without licernsing and fair dues to the recording artsists; licensees and publishers.....talk about kettle and pot.....it's politicians and duck houses again...

WC....the thread is about Charity. I alerted something that is clearly a hidden source of income for a fair few on here and it's rife!

My prediction is, at least 1,000 illegal CDs a week are conveniently being distributed on doors up and down the country.

I should know, I have purchased several 'anniversary and charidee' CDs on Ebay in recent weeks. Any comment

on that little item?

Do not make statements without any real facts. I took instructions from my MD at Goldmine for 11 years. I left the company in 2002.

At no time did Goldmine ever encounter legal action. What happened after 02 ain't my concern

apologies for highlighting the 'new black hole in the Northern scene economy' either the lack of support(apart from Ken!) is due to no one cares or the perpetrator are scurrying under tables.

None of which makes any difference to us, we no longer distribute CDs due to the decline.

Hopefully Ace/Kent are not naive enough to think that now Goldmine are gone that it paves the way for increased sales?

The doors at many a Soul night are their new competition.. Sadly.

Edited October 8, 2009 by The Golden 101

[Guest Perception]

I'd only get involved in a charity event with someone that I knew well and trusted....there are chancers out there that promote under the guise of charity with less moral values than politicians with duck houses....

Agree with this. I know some promoters that take expenses etc and there is hardly anything left for charity!

I don't think charity should be used to fill a vevue, although nothing wrong with having a collection on the night unadvertised.

I donate to charity by standing order.

[Guest kev such]

I firmly believe that charitable events should be just that.

My biggest bug bear is when you read "Profits going to charity". The Christmas Cream Cracker was started because I was asked to put an event on between the August and March Cream Crackers, and wanted to try and prove that I didnt start the CC to make money.

I cover the cost of the hall and the flyers etc.... and ALL money taken on the door is given to the respective charity. When I ask the respective DJs if they will do a spot at the CCC I always inform them its a non paying event. I am glad to say that they ALWAYS agree to offer their services for free ( a few beers etc... usually cover the spot). I must stress that should someone not wish to do the spot then that is not a reason for villifying them, to do a spot or not is their choice.

Admittedly some venues are expensive to hire and this will need to be covered not by the promoter. However in my experience a smalll bit of banter with the venue owners can usually ensure either a cheaper hire charge or no hire charge. i.e. I try to get a deal where as some of the hire money is given back to the chosen charity providing the venue makes enough behind the bar. This invariably works, its good to be a bit cheeky sometimes.

At the 1st CCC £850 was raised and £900 was raised last year. This year the money is going to a local soulie who is doing a sponsered bike ride from Cambodia to Vietnam to raise money for children effected by land mines.so hopefully a little more can be raised.

I would just like to add this is in NO WAY aimed towards any other promoter or how anyone else does charitable events.

Its just how I do it thats all.

Regards

Kev (dont do modern) Such

Edited October 8, 2009 by kev such

[Naughty Boy]

Totally agree Rob, it's very easy to say "we raised £xxx for Charity then pocket the lot", which is why Shane posts up a copy of the receipt from "Weston Park" after every event we do...

We also ask DJs who are only willing to do the spot for free.

blatent plug:

60s Soul @ The Redhouse - all proceeds to Weston Park Cancer Appeal.

https://www.soul-sour...1entry1164578

nowt wrong with having a plug and western park too brill place to support too

its the only way ,thats why we always post up for the charity we choose support

Rob