The Group & Cecil Washigton - I don't like to lose

[Simon T]

I think most of us have romantic image of artist spending their last few dollars to record their future Northern hit, only to fail to become a star. At the weekend, I was taking to a friend who knows the writer of "I don't like to lose? that gives a slightly different perspective on things. Bill Tuthill wrote it to inspire people (no, he hasn't got any copies!)

I'd be interested in what people think of the record (lyrics), has it affected you or inspired you in any way & what are your memories of it

I used to play it after occasions, such as crap days at work, and picture myself 'walking right over' the boss! So it inspired me, if only to physical violence and revenge!!

[Gene-r]

I think the lyrics really do inspire self-esteem and well-being!!! Bill Tuthill wrote some really positive vibe lyrics about refusing to be trodden on, and to excel at all one does.

I love the record, not just for its positive outlook lyrics, but also for the tuneful record it is. The arrangements are outstanding, even the basic piano break in the middle seems lavish!!! Definitely in my all-time Top 100 fave Soul records!!!

Gene

[Haydn]

The build up then the drop is excellent, note for note.

And it does lift you to hear it after a hard day, makes you want to tell people that YOU are the boss, lovely!!!!

H

[Guest]

I can remember when it was Searlings top sound at Wigan ( 78-79? ) and he came to DJ at the 8 Bells pub in Mansfield for a mid week soul night that Rob Marriott ran. It was a tiny little room above the pub and there were probably only about 25-30 of us in and we had the best DJ in the country at the time and the best sounds - great night, great record!

[Chalky]

I can remember when it was Searlings top sound at Wigan ( 78-79? ) and he came to DJ at the 8 Bells pub in Mansfield for a mid week soul night that Rob Marriott ran. It was a tiny little room above the pub and there were probably only about 25-30 of us in and we had the best DJ in the country at the time and the best sounds - great night, great record!

I can remember saying that someone went through some old archives back in the states and it stated that there was 12,000 copies of this pressed. Fact or another myth dunno but very interesting one to say how rare the record is.

Can't remember what archives they were, pressing plant, IRS?????

[Guest Johnny One Trout]

I can remember saying that someone went through some old archives back in the states and it stated that there was 12,000 copies of this pressed. Fact or another myth dunno but very interesting one to say how rare the record is.

Can't remember what archives they were, pressing plant, IRS?????

Regardless of that this is without a doubt one of the best....most enduring oldies of that age of Norman Soultrouser music absolutely fan-bloody-tastic even today

John

[Guest]

I think most of us have romantic image of artist spending their last few dollars to record their future Northern hit, only to fail to become a star.  At the weekend, I was taking to a friend who knows the writer of "I don't like to lose? that gives a slightly different perspective on things.  Bill Tuthill  wrote it to inspire people (no, he hasn't got any copies!)

I'd be interested in what people think of the record (lyrics), has it affected you or inspired you in any way & what are your memories of it

I used to play it after occasions, such as crap days at work, and picture myself 'walking right over' the boss! So it inspired me, if only to physical violence and revenge!!

Heres the deal....

The record was originally played locally and was a hit!! Then it was banned, thought to have racial undertones (because the band was white and one of the band members was a defo raciast), subsequently stations started to play the flipside, 'The Light of Day', which did nothing. At least 10,000 copies were pressed. The group also signed for D-Town records, but never had anything released because of contractural issues surrounding the a band member's racial attitudes. The track 'I don't like to lose' was meant to be sung by a white guy, slightly more uptempo, but when he didn't show... in stepped 'The Revrend' and done a great job!!!

Oliver is a nice guy, who does alot of charity work now in the aid of abused children, and has his own 'small' film company. Really nice guy.

Andy K

[Gene-r]

Strange - can't pin-point any racial undertones in the lyrics, apart from one of the members being a racist themselves, but still can't see how that would have influenced the radio jocks. Guess it could have been worse - the word "people" could have been replaced with "n*****s" or "negros" if they really wanted to make a point. I've heard much worse in terms of US racial propaganda records, so it's interesting to see what made them tick at this one.

Excellent history behind the track though - It's always been a big record on the Northern scene (deservedly), but no idea it had so much controversy in 1966 when first released!!!

Gene

[Guest micksmith]

BUT WHO FIRST FOUND IT AND SOLD IT TO RICHARD? ANSWERS HERE PLEASE.

[Guest]

Will most probobly be proved wrong by Mick, but the tale I heard years ago was

the J Anderson found it in a house in Detroit mixed a batch of records stored in a washing basket, then sold it to Richard who C/U as Joe Mathews.

Maybe Bollocks & most probobly is but a nice tale all the same

As for the Record 100% Northern IMO one of the verey best to come from the Casino in my top ten & one I will never part with

Did hear that a large quantitiy were found in Detroit but the guy refused to sell

Cheers Ian

[Chalky]

Will most probobly be proved wrong by Mick, but the tale I heard years ago was

the J Anderson found it in a house in Detroit mixed a batch of records stored in a washing basket, then sold it to Richard who C/U as Joe Mathews.

Maybe Bollocks & most probobly is  but a nice tale all the same

As for the Record 100% Northern IMO one of the verey best to come from the Casino in my top ten & one I will never part with

Did hear that a large quantitiy were found in Detroit but the guy refused to sell

Cheers Ian

Gotta agree, one of the best records ever without doubt.

Didn't Kev Draper find the second copy and play it uncovered, pissed Richard S off totally who promptly dropped it from his playlist???

[Guest]

Cheers Ian

Gotta agree, one of the best records ever without doubt.

Didn't Kev Draper find the second copy and play it uncovered, pissed Richard S off totally who promptly dropped it from his playlist???

[Tony Smith]

Did hear that a large quantitiy were found in Detroit but the guy refused to sell

Cheers Ian

These were probably the copies that Tim Ash turned up back in '85/'86, going rate then anywhere between 30-50 quid (cash or, postal orders only please!)

[Guest micksmith]

I THINK YOUR RIGHT IAN-THE WASHING BASKET BELONGED TO JOHNNY MAE MATHEWS. HE HAD "NO CHOICE" BUT TO BUY EM.

[Guest]

So John did get a Big Hit There

Ian

[Guest micksmith]

YES-I THINK HE ALSO FOUND A FEW COPIES OF SAM WILLIAMS THERE.

[Guest]

Mick isn't that where "Love slipped through His Fingers".............

[Guest]

Heres the deal....

The record was originally played locally and was a hit!! Then it was banned, thought to have racial undertones (because the band was white and one of the band members was a defo raciast), subsequently stations started to play the flipside, 'The Light of Day', which did nothing. At least 10,000 copies were pressed. The group also signed for D-Town records, but never had anything released because of contractural issues surrounding the a band member's racial attitudes. The track 'I don't like to lose' was meant to be sung by a white guy, slightly more uptempo, but when he didn't show... in stepped 'The Revrend' and done a great job!!!

Andy K

The record was originally played locally and was a hit!!

A hit as in played often on the radio? Or did it actually sell a load?

-Then it was banned

As they don't have the BBC over there, I presume you mean the US legal authorities i.e. the FBI stepped in to get the record banned

-thought to have racial undertones (because the band was white and one of the band members was a defo racist),

A band affiliated to the KKK with a particularly truculent member who would take his pillow case off!?!

-subsequently stations started to play the flipside,

Despite the record being banned?

-At least 10,000 copies were pressed.

At 10 cents a pop that's a grand which is a lot for 1966

-The group also signed for D-Town records, but never had anything released because of contractual issues

With who?

-but when he didn't show.

Probably busy inventing 'Doc Martins!?'

- in stepped 'The Reverend'

The obvious solution?!