The Younghearts On Canterbury

[Guest]

I am really confused about how to spot the original issue of this one. Would be nice if there were someone out there that could help a bit.

The Younghearts "Beginning of the End" / "A Little Togetherness" on Canterbury 506

First of all, when I check Manship's price guide, I can see that there were several reissues of this one.

When I check Popsike, then there generally seem to have been two label variations which have sold for a nice sum in the past on ebay.

This one auctioned off by Craig Moerer: https://www.popsike.com/rare-Northern-Soul-45-YOUNGHEARTS-a-little-togetherness/260350982927.html

And this label variation seem to have sold for a nice sum a lot of time: https://www.popsike.com/NORTHERN-SOUL-45-THE-YOUNGHEARTS-LITTLE-TOGETHERNESS/200268001712.html

Please note the differences such as: "vocal" being placed on the right and left side of the labels respectively and the same for "(BMI)"......There are probably more differences, but these are just two that I could point out.

[Julianb]

A difficult one.

I think the best way is to check the run out - boot has jc 67-506 - a in runout on moulded label vinyl.

Original vinyl has 67-c-506a lm lr

Original styrene has 64811 in run out - don't think it was booted on styrene though.

I sold an original vinyl a few weeks ago for £75 to give you an idea of current price.

Julian

[Ian Seaman]

Buy a white demo then you can't go wrong

I bought an issue off ebay a few years ago for £28, it arrived and was a reissue so i contacted seller and he just said "OK bin it and i,ll send another"....4 days later a mint WDJ arrived.........Result !!!

sold the reissue for £20 too

The boot has jc 67-506 - a re 5 in the run out & is vinyl, originals are both vinyl & styrene with the styrene copy having de lta # 64811 & the vinyl original has # 67-c-506a lw lr in childlike writting according to Mr M !!

Labels are good on all copys too

i would value an issue at no more then £50/60 mint

Ian.

[Guest]

My label looks like the one that Moerer auctioned off (check my link above), and it is a vinyl issue.

The run out groove has "67-c-506a" "LW" (but in very small letters on both sides) and "LR" (seems to be on one side only).

So I guess mine is the original vinyl issue.

Anyways, not a big loss if it's a boot. I only paid £16, but I still need to know

Edited September 8, 2009 by Preben

[45cellar]

My label looks like the one that Moerer auctioned off (check my link above), and it is a vinyl issue.

The run out groove has "67-c-506a" "LW" (but in very small letters on both sides) and "LR" (seems to be on one side only).

So I guess mine is the original vinyl issue.

Anyways, not a big loss if it's a boot. I only paid £16, but I still need to know

This one featured in >>> &do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent> <<<

>>> &do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent> <<<

Edited September 8, 2009 by 45cellar

[Ernie Andrews]

Buy it on Soultown - The new Younghearts

Or The King of hearts on Zea all the same record

[Ric-tic]

Buy a white demo then you can't go wrong

I bought an issue off ebay a few years ago for £28, it arrived and was a reissue so i contacted seller and he just said "OK bin it and i,ll send another"....4 days later a mint WDJ arrived.........Result !!!

sold the reissue for £20 too

that was me:blush:

i was embarrased i never even checked it as it had originated from tim brown

WHAT!!!! you sold the reissue for £20:boxing:

Edited September 9, 2009 by ric-tic

[Patto]

Buy it on Soultown - The new Younghearts

Or The King of hearts on Zea all the same record

Yep your right there Earnie,and the soultown release sounds a crisper recording to my ears

[Guest]

Buy it on Soultown - The new Younghearts

Or The King of hearts on Zea all the same record

1967 The Canterbury 506- Younghearts - A Little Togetherness, came out in 1967 and is the original release by several years.

1970 Soultown 10 – New Young Hearts Get Lonely Too / A Little Togetherness – came out in 1970, three years later!

1971 Zea 50004 When You Wish Upon A Star / A Little Togetherness – came out in 1971

Edited December 3, 2010 by Guest

[Guest]

To me it seems that people generally don't know how to tell the difference between the original VINYL press on Canterbury and all the bootlegs. Auctions results show that many of the bootlegs sell for the same price as the original.

https://collectorsfrenzy.com/Default.aspx?ctl00%24SearchKey=younghearts&SortKey=0&Page=1

Also, the information given here: >>> <<< is not correct according to Manship's guide. I have just made a comment on it in the thread. Please check. It seems that there are five bootleg copies imitating the original VINYL copy. Three of them have different label design than the original and two of them seem to have the same label design. One of them Manship describes like this "within the pages of this book, this 45 stands out as the finest counterfeits of them all". Anyways, even the three copies where the labels don't resemble the original seem to sell for nice money on ebay.

[Quinvy]

The styrene W/DJ is really good sound quality. And the title is just "LITTLE TOGETHERNESS" no "a" in it.

[45cellar]

To me it seems that people generally don't know how to tell the difference between the original VINYL press on Canterbury and all the bootlegs. Auctions results show that many of the bootlegs sell for the same price as the original.

https://collectorsfre...ortKey=0&Page=1

Also, the information given here: >>> <<< is not correct according to Manship's guide. I have just made a comment on it in the thread. Please check. It seems that there are five bootleg copies imitating the original VINYL copy. Three of them have different label design than the original and two of them seem to have the same label design. One of them Manship describes like this "within the pages of this book, this 45 stands out as the finest counterfeits of them all". Anyways, even the three copies where the labels don't resemble the original seem to sell for nice money on ebay.

I haven't a copy of th 5th edition, I still believe that the Information that I have given (Posted February 2008) is Indeed correct.

This came out on Yellow & also Burgundy label,

I do have an earlier copy of the Bootleg Guide which lists this as one of the Original Vinyl (Rough to the touch deadwax info)

If any recent Information has come to light regarding this vinyl copy then I am not aware of that.

[Reg Scott]

The styrene W/DJ is really good sound quality. And the title is just "LITTLE TOGETHERNESS" no "a" in it.

I'm pretty sure the original styrene issue also has the title as "LITTLE TOGETHERNESS" no "a" in it .

I don't believe the vinyl copies, counterfeit or original, use this title.

[Guest]

I haven't a copy of th 5th edition, I still believe that the Information that I have given (Posted February 2008) is Indeed correct.

This came out on Yellow & also Burgundy label,

I do have an earlier copy of the Bootleg Guide which lists this as one of the Original Vinyl (Rough to the touch deadwax info)

If any recent Information has come to light regarding this vinyl copy then I am not aware of that.

First of all, I have no idea what is right or wrong. I can only quote the information given in Manship's 5th edition. In the end, I hope that the information given in Manship is not correct because then my copy is a bootleg ;-(

You listed this one as the original vinyl copy.

According Manship the 5th edition, the label design of the original vinyl copy is suppose to look like this, and as far as I can see, there are two bootleg copies which have the exact same label design. The one that you list is one of three bootlegs that don't have the same label design as the original.

Anyways, if the information in Manship's 5th edition is correct, then people are paying quite a lot for the bootlegs all the time:

https://collectorsfre...id=200488712759

https://collectorsfre...id=360265891199

Edited December 3, 2010 by Preben

[Reg Scott]

First of all, I have no idea what is right or wrong. I can only quote the information given in Manship's 5th edition. In the end, I hope that the information given in Manship is not correct because then my copy is a bootleg ;-(

You listed this one as the original vinyl copy.

Anyways, if the information in Manship's 5th edition is correct, then people are paying quite a lot for the bootlegs all the time:

Seb, this is one of the better counterfeits but the deadwax info for the vinyl boots is the best way to check your copy. I had a vinyl copy, along with a styrene copy, for years until I found out my vinyl copy didn't have the 'right' deadwax info.

So to be safe on this one stick to styrene

[45cellar]

First of all, I have no idea what is right or wrong. I can only quote the information given in Manship's 5th edition. In the end, I hope that the information given in Manship is not correct because then my copy is a bootleg ;-(

You listed this one as the original vinyl copy.

According Manship the 5th edition, the label design of the original vinyl copy is suppose to look like this, and as far as I can see, there are two bootleg copies which have the exact same label design. The one that you list is one of three bootlegs that don't have the same label design as the original.

Anyways, if the information in Manship's 5th edition is correct, then people are paying quite a lot for the bootlegs all the time:

https://collectorsfre...id=200488712759

https://collectorsfre...id=360265891199

This one has "JC 67-C-506-A RE 5" scratched in the Deadwax & I have this down as a BOOT

[45cellar]

Buy a white demo then you can't go wrong

I bought an issue off ebay a few years ago for £28, it arrived and was a reissue so i contacted seller and he just said "OK bin it and i,ll send another"....4 days later a mint WDJ arrived.........Result !!!

sold the reissue for £20 too

The boot has jc 67-506 - a re 5 in the run out & is vinyl, originals are both vinyl & styrene with the styrene copy having de lta # 64811 & the vinyl original has # 67-c-506a lw lr in childlike writting according to Mr M !!

Labels are good on all copys too

i would value an issue at no more then £50/60 mint

Ian.

This one has the Rough childlike writing as quoted above.

& is the one that I have down as original. (The earlier Bootleg Guides had more descriptive Text than scans)

As I mentioned earlier new Information may now have surfaced regarding this.

I am not aware of it, if there has & I haven't a copy of the 5th Edition.

[Soul-slider]

There's also a version on their 'Minit' L.P 'Soul Shakin', albeit slower.

[Guest]

This one has the Rough childlike writing as quoted above.

& is the one that I have down as original. (The earlier Bootleg Guides had more descriptive Text than scans)

As I mentioned earlier new Information may now have surfaced regarding this.

I am not aware of it, if there has & I haven't a copy of the 5th Edition.

In the 5th edition he write this: "565d original vinyl press 10.20 wide 3 turn deadwax matruix starts a gouged J C then a scratched 67-C-506-A RE. Nashville Matrix 5".

The 565d number is a reference to the scan in the back of the book. I have written the exact information given in the 5th edition. I have even included the mispelling of "matruix" ;-) Is this the same information that he gives in the bootleg guide?

[Guest]

Seb, this is one of the better counterfeits but the deadwax info for the vinyl boots is the best way to check your copy. I had a vinyl copy, along with a styrene copy, for years until I found out my vinyl copy didn't have the 'right' deadwax info.

So to be safe on this one stick to styrene

Yes, it sure seems much easier just to get the styrene copy or pay a bit extra and get a demo copy ;-)

[45cellar]

In the 5th edition he write this: "565d original vinyl press 10.20 wide 3 turn deadwax matruix starts a gouged J C then a scratched 67-C-506-A RE. Nashville Matrix 5".

The 565d number is a reference to the scan in the back of the book. I have written the exact information given in the 5th edition. I have even included the mispelling of "matruix" ;-) Is this the same information that he gives in the bootleg guide?

Reading your description the "Nashville Matrix" is the key to the confusion.

Just been looking for my Bootleg Guide, from memory it's as quoted below I think, but no mention of the "Nashville Matrix"

Therefore, I suspect that would be the difference between Original & Boot for that press.

Does the childlike writing copy no longer feature ?

Buy a white demo then you can't go wrong

I bought an issue off ebay a few years ago for £28, it arrived and was a reissue so i contacted seller and he just said "OK bin it and i,ll send another"....4 days later a mint WDJ arrived.........Result !!!

sold the reissue for £20 too

The boot has jc 67-506 - a re 5 in the run out & is vinyl, originals are both vinyl & styrene with the styrene copy having de lta # 64811 & the vinyl original has # 67-c-506a lw lr in childlike writting according to Mr M !!

Labels are good on all copys too

i would value an issue at no more then £50/60 mint

Ian.

[Guest]

Roger,

Throw away the Bootleg Guide it was something I put together over 15 years ago. Price Guide 5 covers FIVE different counterfeits & bootlegs all made last century. THE ORIGINAL MATRIX was wrote by a guy using the moniker J C (you come across his deadwax scribblings on many Los Angeles 45s) The vinyl original has a Nashville Matrix and all the markings are scratched in deep and childlike and they are very rough to the touch (use your fingertip) There is no Styrene bootleg. But there are fully FIVE different counterfeit and re-issues. It's all I hope, clearly documented in Price Guide five with colour scans for cross-reference.

The Bootleg Guide is great for £6.00 but only crudely covers a fraction of the information in PG5.

PM me with your address I'll send you a PG 5 for FREE as a Christmas present as I truly admire your work with the scans & matrix markings.

John

Edited December 3, 2010 by john manship

[Spanner]

Roger,

Throw away the Bootleg Guide it was something I put together over 15 years ago. Price Guide 5 covers FIVE different counterfeits & bootlegs all made last century. THE ORIGINAL MATRIX was wrote by a guy using the moniker J C (you come across his deadwax scribblings on many Los Angeles 45s) The vinyl original has a Nashville Matrix and all the markings are scratched in deep and childlike and they are very rough to the touch (use your fingertip) There is no Styrene bootleg. But there are fully FIVE different counterfeit and re-issues. It's all I hope, clearly documented in Price Guide five with colour scans for cross-reference.

The Bootleg Guide is great for £6.00 but only crudely covers a fraction of the information in PG5.

PM me with your address I'll send you a PG 5 for FREE as a Christmas present as I truly admire your work with the scans & matrix markings.

John

I agree John can i have a guide 4 christmas please [ or that book from ww1 ]

[Ernie Andrews]

The 45 was also released on minit but I dont know if it was slower like the Lp track.

[Wiggyflat]

It is the slower version on minit.Just got rid of my Canterbury boot and reinvested the money into a yellow styrene copy from the US with LR 64811 scratched in the matrix and then C7-C506A-RE.. the other side has 64811-x..I've probably bought another boot!!

Edited December 6, 2010 by wiggyflat

[Guest Lobster Madras]

Dogstoat, your new copy is real...

As JM says, no styrene yellow look alike nasty .

Edited December 6, 2010 by Lobster Madras

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

ON MINIT

[Guest]

Just to expand on this title a little.

The very first press Canterbury 506 was credited to THE TEMPOS - Little Togetherness Bobby Sanders alledgedly was made aware of other groups using same name and revamped the release and changed the artist name to the YOUNGHEARTS they retained this name for their future releases under Bobby Sanders.

The Younghearts - Little Togetherness - is the very first variation on this title after The Tempos was withdrawn, and is the rarest of all the YOUNGHEARTS variations. But not rarer than the label crediting the TEMPOS as the artist, which can be found in both Promo and stock copies.

The styrene shortened title label scan on this thread is an original and seldom seen.

Edited December 6, 2010 by john manship

[honky]

Curiouser, the Tempos on Canterbury 506 and the Younghearts appear to be different takes. Both start out with the same first verse:

"Ooooh baby

Ooooh baby

And it's a mighty long road when you're trying to make it all alone

And you got no one in your corner to stand by your side

Now all it takes is..."

The Younghearts then goes into:

"Now you don't have to be, baby, a millionaire..."

But the Tempos version goes directly into the chorus:

"A little togetherness, baby, that's all we need..."

It'll be a few days before I can check the deadwax on my Tempos to compare. Do all of the various Younghearts pressings have the same structure of 2 verses before the chorus?

- honky

[45cellar]

===================================================================

JM

Thank you for that.....talk about hearing what I wanted to hear.

I have personally pestered you for advice on several occasions and you have always assisted with humour and good grace. I thank you for that.

Best

dogstoat

PS Thanks to 'Lobster Madras' for your response also.

First Stock Copy I have seen with "LITTLE TOGETHERNESS" Title.

Same press as this White DEMO, but have seen this DEMO a few times over the years.

[honky]

It'll be a few days before I can check the deadwax on my Tempos to compare. Do all of the various Younghearts pressings have the same structure of 2 verses before the chorus?

Deadwax on the Tempos is:

67-C-506A-RE, matrix stamp, (Delta)64811

Not sure how to type the "Delta" symbol, but that's what's in front of the 64811. Also, the label on the left under "Lenoir Music Co." says 66-C-506-A (different from the deadwax), and on the right, the time is listed as 3:15, and "Arr. by Gene Page". Writing credits are in a different order also - (J.Peters - B.Sanders - W.Douglas).

Probably more info than anyone cares about, but happy to put up a scan if anyone is curious.

- honky

[Mrtag]

Yes, it sure seems much easier just to get the styrene copy or pay a bit extra and get a demo copy ;-)

Everyone Seems To Be Thinking The Same Way !! Have You Seen What The Demo's Have Been Doing Lately On Ebay

[Henrun]

Sorry to revive this but is the red label version a boot?

Thanks Danny.

[Chris L]

A difficult one. I think the best way is to check the run out - boot has jc 67-506 - a in runout on moulded label vinyl.Original vinyl has 67-c-506a lm lr Original styrene has 64811 in run out - don't think it was booted on styrene though. I sold an original vinyl a few weeks ago for £75 to give you an idea of current price.

Julian

By 'eck lad, thee knows a lot about records.............never seen a styrene except for a demo.............

[Chris L]

Sorry to revive this but is the red label version a boot?

Thanks Danny.

Sorry to revive this but is the red label version a boot?

Thanks Danny.

Yes................

[Chris L]

I am really confused about how to spot the original issue of this one. Would be nice if there were someone out there that could help a bit. The Younghearts "Beginning of the End" / "A Little Togetherness" on Canterbury 506 First of all, when I check Manship's price guide, I can see that there were several reissues of this one. When I check Popsike, then there generally seem to have been two label variations which have sold for a nice sum in the past on ebay. This one auctioned off by Craig Moerer: https://www.popsike.c...0350982927.html And this label variation seem to have sold for a nice sum a lot of time: https://www.popsike.c...0268001712.html Please note the differences such as: "vocal" being placed on the right and left side of the labels respectively and the same for "(BMI)"......There are probably more differences, but these are just two that I could point out.

Read this........................

[Henrun]

Read this........................

Thanks. There's some fantastic scans in there, makes thing a lot easier.

[Gene-r]

Yep your right there Earnie,and the soultown release sounds a crisper recording to my ears

Am i right in saying that the Soultown issue has an extra (or a different) verse?

Edited January 24, 2013 by Gene-R

[Chris L]

On 12/3/2010 at 21:54, SebDK said:

 

 

In the 5th edition he write this: "565d original vinyl press 10.20 wide 3 turn deadwax matruix starts a gouged J C then a scratched 67-C-506-A RE. Nashville Matrix 5".

 

The 565d number is a reference to the scan in the back of the book. I have written the exact information given in the 5th edition. I have even included the mispelling of "matruix" ;-) Is this the same information that he gives in the bootleg guide?

I have a vinyl copy like that, thing is it looks like a boot I once had, shame I don't have it to compare. Have to say label looks a bit Mickey Mouse.

[Tlscapital]

To make things right in the chronology, it was first credited 'little togetherness'. Both promo and stock issues used the same matrix/mix/take. It was then quickly re-pressed to meet the public demand and re-titled 'A little togetherness' and likely first miss-credited to the Tempos on the Monarch press (even if it's the same group) then corrected back to the Younghearts.

So the Tempos is not a first press ! What is odd is that the Tempos issue still uses the date '66 on the label. Just as did 'Canterbury' 505 that is reputedly pressed on Feb. 4 1967 !!! And even the scratched in matrix of the Tempos issue reads 67-C-506A-RE !!! So the Tempos press is likely a rush release that got it all wrong in haste at the pressing plant... this is why it's rarer.

One should own or gather these six releases to note down the matrix, digitally record them, compare the volume and frequencies graphics and timing to determine the different mix/takes used for each presses.

People at 'Canterbury' records did use those two other pressing plants (vinyls) when needed to provide faster national distribution when they had a national hit. Canterbury 506 was the first one doing so for the label.

 

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Good info on a stellar 45!

[spot]

Just biuy the New Younghearts, no worries then.

 

[Tlscapital]

6 minutes ago, spot said:

Just biuy the New Younghearts, no worries then.

 

But it's not the same mix. It's "cleaned" but then looses the "buzz" sound of the original mix which does half the record what it is. A bit like Phil Spector without his wall of sound...

Edited December 26, 2016 by tlscapital

[spot]

8 minutes ago, tlscapital said:

But it's not the same mix. It's "cleaned" but then looses the "buzz" sound of the original mix which does half the record what it is. A bit like Phil Spector without his wall of sound...

So it's a better production, good. Put it on the decks and see who comes running up saying it's lost it's "Buzz". At least you won't have to buy all 6 mixes and pressings so you can compare. Oh and don't forget the Zea press.

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by spot
missing words

[Chris L]

If you ever get asked "what is a Northern Soul record?" then probably this is the best thing you could play.

[Chalky]

The Zea release (King Of Hearts) was the same line up as the New Younghearts, without checking they were a different line up to the Canterbury group which recorded A Little Togetherness.  I had it many years ago, the grey matter is not like it was, is it a newer recording or just another later reissue under the guise of the new group?

P.S. Just checked youtube...sounds like a reissue under the guise of the KOHs

Edited December 26, 2016 by chalky

[Goldsoul]

Chalky- It's a really strange release. Bobby Sanders(RIP) was a dear friend and Ron Preyer Younghearts lead. 

The single released in 1967 initially sold for the 'Beginning of the End'. However 12 months later 'A Little Togerherness' received interest locally and even made a few radio charts. By 1970 it has become a firm oldie at dances around the LA urban area. Almost a collectors item you might say. 

Add to that the UK interest from 1972, the label was still in business and had the ability to reissue/re-press at will. Chris Lalor will remember Bob at SoultripUSA in LA. 

A classic from release and revered worldwide as an ultimate 'Northern Soul Sound'

Edited December 26, 2016 by Goldsoul

[Chalky]

48 minutes ago, Goldsoul said:

Chalky- It's a really strange release. Bobby Sanders(RIP) was a dear friend and Ron Preyer Younghearts lead. 

The single released in 1967 initially sold for the 'Beginning of the End'. However 12 months later 'A Little Togerherness' received interest locally and even made a few radio charts. By 1970 it has become a firm oldie at dances around the LA urban area. Almost a collectors item you might say. 

Add to that the UK interest from 1972, the label was still in business and had the ability to reissue/re-press at will. Chris Lalor will remember Bob at SoultripUSA in LA. 

A classic you might say from release and revered worldwide as an ultimate 'Northern Soul Sound'

Hi Kev.  It would seem Bobby was not one to miss an opportunity to make a quick buck.  Certainly got some mileage out of this track.  Great record too.