Record Mountain Growing By The Day

[Mark Bicknell]

Seems the record mountain is growing out there on a daily basis, the vast amount of quality records coming up for sale here on Soul Source alone is incredible, prices seem to be hitting their true level as often records have to be reduced or offered at below so called book prices, then there is Ebay, all the major and minor record dealers, collectors, DJ's wheeling, dealing, trading it would seem that there is a glut of records which are simply not selling, certain big ticket records will always sell but even some of these struggle to reach premium prices, looking at Ebay there are dozens of records on offer at 'buy it now' prices which are just sitting there, many of the auction records on Ebay are selling well below book prices so has the bubble finally burst, seems that many people are trying to sell stuff from their collections and it would seem a good time to pick up nice collection additions if you have a few quid to spend, are we getting to the point when no one wants some of these records? the record mountain seems to be growing and is huge in size. I've got to the stage that I still love and enjoy the music but I'm less bothered of actually owning or keeping some of the tunes and it would seem that many others are feeling the same.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Mark Bicknell

[pikeys dog]

Supply and demand.... the sales of records has been blown open by the internet.

DJs only pushing records where there's three and a half copies means the average record buyer is chasing the same hand full of records.

Hot Boxing and only buying to DJ are compounding this.

Personally I buy what I like, whether it's going to get played outside of these four walls or not, though to be honest my purchases have dropped because I can't find a great deal of stuff to pique my interest.

That reminds me, must pay for a record I reserved on here yesterday.....

[Ted Massey]

The recession aint helping either

[Mark Bicknell]

The recession aint helping either

Bloody good point Ted, we are doing ok in our business but everything else seems to have taken a back seat including the record 'must have' bug.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Ted Massey]

Capital expenditure on plant and machinery is the worst it has been for the 32 years i have been selling machinery , this is the 3rd recession i have experienced and by far the worst, 1980/2 and 1990/1 were a dodle compared to this

[pikeys dog]

If that's the case, why aren't people using the low cash flow to 'backfill' their collections with the odd cheap and cheerful instead of chasing big hitters?

Seems to me everyone just wants whatever Butch plays and can't be arsed to look at the cheaper sounds sat right under their collective nose.

I did Rogers record fair the other week - loads of people looking through boxes - but in the main not showing any interest, passing by great £10 to £20 records.. and I'm pretty sure it wasn't because they knew every 45 in the boxes (I had over 1000 45s there).

Truth be told, it's on its arse because everybodies turned into a bunch of whiney sheep with no direction [ James Trouble] LOL

[Mark Bicknell]

If that's the case, why aren't people using the low cash flow to 'backfill' their collections with the odd cheap and cheerful instead of chasing big hitters?

Seems to me everyone just wants whatever Butch plays and can't be arsed to look at the cheaper sounds sat right under their collective nose.

I did Rogers record fair the other week - loads of people looking through boxes - but in the main not showing any interest, passing by great £10 to £20 records.. and I'm pretty sure it wasn't because they knew every 45 in the boxes (I had over 1000 45s there).

Truth be told, it's on its arse because everybodies turned into a bunch of whiney sheep with no direction [ James Trouble] LOL

The odd tunes I do buy now tend to be the little cheapies which give as much pleasure as the so called big ticket items, totally agree mate with everything you say.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Tabs]

I think collectively it's the recession and with unemployment people are trying to raise cash by selling their assets.

Last few days the headlines were people paying off debts in record levels.

Plus as mentioned some people are no longer bothered having the vinyl.

Buyers market if you have the readies.

[Guest]

If that's the case, why aren't people using the low cash flow to 'backfill' their collections with the odd cheap and cheerful instead of chasing big hitters?

Seems to me everyone just wants whatever Butch plays and can't be arsed to look at the cheaper sounds sat right under their collective nose.

I did Rogers record fair the other week - loads of people looking through boxes - but in the main not showing any interest, passing by great £10 to £20 records.. and I'm pretty sure it wasn't because they knew every 45 in the boxes (I had over 1000 45s there).

Truth be told, it's on its arse because everybodies turned into a bunch of whiney sheep with no direction [¢Å¾¢ James Trouble] LOL

Thats a mighty big generalisation but I do think there is some truth in what you say. There are people who remain happy snapping up great soul records for 10 or 20 quid (I am most certainly one of them) and that is because they simply love Soul music and don't care if the record is played 'out' or stays 'in' with them, as long as they like it....(I do pay more obviously, but only if I truly love a record)....

On the other hand as WIDD puts it, there are too many people who think 'having expensive records makes their cocks bigger!' and as such that has led to the 'trophy' buyer you are describing! The guy who buys nothing under 100 quid and thinks he's a vinyl stud!

Of course there are 'great' records in the 300-plus bracket but being absolutely honest, if somebody is looking to build a new collection and they want a lot of records to enjoy and also a high ratio of CREATIVE QUALITY, I firmly believe they are best served looking in the 10-100 pound bracket TOPS!

But to try and imply people who have been buying records for 30 years or so have all 'lost their direction' is pushing it a bit.

[Quinvy]

Buying vinyl is a luxury. Many people, myself included, have been made redundant. Everyone who has work seems to be trying to pay off their debts. So it's obvious, there is no spare cash about. When people are feeling confident in their lives, they will always buy a cheap record or two......not so now.....and those paying off debt will use their vinyl to do so.....simples. When the economy picks up, so will record sales i.m.h.o.

[Guest]

The odd tunes I do buy now tend to be the little cheapies which give as much pleasure as the so called big ticket items, totally agree mate with everything you say.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

You know Mark, when you can by records like 'All I need is you' JUNE CONQUEST, PAULINE SHIVERS 'Won't you come back home', HERMAN GRIFFIN 'Are you for me or against me' JACKIE JASON 'Please Mr Sun' all for 20 quid or under, it does make a mockery of the whole thing. Cracking top drawer records which as you say, will give you tons of audio pleasure! I've bought loads more in that range this year and the quality level is superb. If anything because they are so cheap and so fooking good, those records actually give me more pleasure than a three figure item!

[Ric-tic]

i think a lot of people are HAVING to sell some but they dont want to, a guy said that here in sales the other day as he'd been laid off i was sorry for him,and if threads like this keep poping up everywhere it will just mean they might have to sell a few more than theyd planned to...

[Mark Bicknell]

You know Mark, when you can by records like 'All I need is you' JUNE CONQUEST, PAULINE SHIVERS 'Won't you come back home', HERMAN GRIFFIN 'Are you for me or against me' JACKIE JASON 'Please Mr Sun' all for 20 quid or under, it does make a mockery of the whole thing. Cracking top drawer records which as you say, will give you tons of audio pleasure! I've bought loads more in that range this year and the quality level is superb. If anything because they are so cheap and so fooking good, those records actually give me more pleasure than a three figure item!

Pauline Shivers top tune was playing that way back during my Solar/Starpoint Radio gigs and many other little bits and bobs.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Pauldonnelly]

I looked at my record boxes the other day and said to myself "how long have you been a deranged twat?" coupled with a lack of enthusiasm I've decided to get rid of 200 records and by a new car, simples.

[Mark Bicknell]

I looked at my record boxes the other day and said to myself "how long have you been a deranged twat?" coupled with a lack of enthusiasm I've decided to get rid of 200 records and by a new car, simples.

Yeh a bloody Bentley the way you are going on lol

Mark.

[Baz Atkinson]

Theres numerous reasons some of which we have touched on -for myself its brillaint because trophy records simply dont mean a thing to me-recently ive been filling the likes of ms/d town/thelma/many chi city logos-philly stuff you name it simply because i can get them now much more competitively.Xover wise its seventh heaven -but in many respects it always has been,lots to be had on the funk side also -which to be honest many northern dealers and collectors are discreetly beavering away!

Alot of returnees who wanted say a Ruby Andrews have buggered off -example been that when the accessible tracks go down in price alot of panic sets in etc,its like an inbuild inertia lol.Joes right simple supply and demand is a big issue and yes recession big factors,my overall feeling is that since i started collecting in 78 ive seen this 3 times and it levels out,however the deepest recession perhaps means that say a kings ofsoul that 2 years ago fetched 2300+ now struggles to find 1600[its had its arse spinned out anyway-but still a lovley track],i really dont think we will ever get back to the harry enfield loads of money ebay mentallity of say 567 years ago,credit is harder and it is to be paid for,ie is my job save now?

BAZ A

PS ITS F--KING GREAT AINT IT LOL.

Edited September 3, 2009 by baz atkinson

[dthedrug]

I could not help but notice that Pete S is selling his Jon Andrews on EBay...No matter the situation i would not part with the crown jewels, as there may be a recession but rare is rare to me? I have always regretted that I sold the best of my US collection due to Thatcher Te old Bag. DAVE KIL Edited September 3, 2009 by dthedrug

[arnie j]

You know Mark, when you can by records like 'All I need is you' JUNE CONQUEST, PAULINE SHIVERS 'Won't you come back home', HERMAN GRIFFIN 'Are you for me or against me' JACKIE JASON 'Please Mr Sun' all for 20 quid or under, it does make a mockery of the whole thing. Cracking top drawer records which as you say, will give you tons of audio pleasure! I've bought loads more in that range this year and the quality level is superb. If anything because they are so cheap and so fooking good, those records actually give me more pleasure than a three figure item!

well said bud,great post

[Ady Pountain]

One element is people looking for something new / different, not just the same old, same old. If something comes up for sale on E Bay, JM or anywhere else that is rare / different / new it usually fetches good money, whether it be Funk, Modern, Northern, or definitely now, Boogie. If you look as this from a 'selling records' point of view, the losers are NS records in the £50 - £300 bracket, or maybe even higher than that. If people have to sell records for financial reasons, that is unfortunate and to be expected. But , if your trying to sell records for a profit, then it tends to be being able to offer something out of the ordinary, or even maybe at the right price. One point to remember is how much you paid for what you are selling. I have many friends who sell records for a living and if they have the stock, usually sourced from trips to the US, they are doing ok. I only dabble, but have still managed to sell recently a Hip Hop LP for $700, a UK Contempo 45 for $107 and 2 x Motown Promos for $60 each, as an example. I've still got the Larry Davis on Duke, Bobby Jason, Bobby Sheen's, Velvet Satins etc, etc. So maybe it's not a Mountain of Records, but a Mountain of the Wrong Records. Just my thoughts, Cheers, Ady.

[Mark Bicknell]

One element is people looking for something new / different, not just the same old, same old. If something comes up for sale on E Bay, JM or anywhere else that is rare / different / new it usually fetches good money, whether it be Funk, Modern, Northern, or definitely now, Boogie. If you look as this from a 'selling records' point of view, the losers are NS records in the £50 - £300 bracket, or maybe even higher than that. If people have to sell records for financial reasons, that is unfortunate and to be expected. But , if your trying to sell records for a profit, then it tends to be being able to offer something out of the ordinary, or even maybe at the right price. One point to remember is how much you paid for what you are selling. I have many friends who sell records for a living and if they have the stock, usually sourced from trips to the US, they are doing ok. I only dabble, but have still managed to sell recently a Hip Hop LP for $700, a UK Contempo 45 for $107 and 2 x Motown Promos for $60 each, as an example. I've still got the Larry Davis on Duke, Bobby Jason, Bobby Sheen's, Velvet Satins etc, etc. So maybe it's not a Mountain of Records, but a Mountain of the Wrong Records. Just my thoughts, Cheers, Ady.

I think one of the problems is on some of the shall we say 'classics' is if most collectors already have them or have had them at some stage when copies surface for sale it matters very little what the book price is if no one wants to buy them, certain records of course will alway's sell often the big ticket items/trophy records call them what you will some how simply sell based on rarity, kudos etc. i think you are bang on Ady with the £50 - £300 bracket being a good example in the NS style, a lot of the same records constantly come up for sale which makes you also think are they really that rare in the first place? even so called biggies seem to pop up on Ebay for example on a regular basis i.e. Cashmeres, Bobby Kline, Gene Toones of late, Sam Fletcher, Four Tracks, Troy Dodds and numerous others, bit of a minefield but part of the game of collecting I guess and to be honest records mentioned here and others does it really matter if they are ten quid or a thousand a quality record is a quality record no matter what the price, the Four Tracks for example still sounds good to me despite copies turning up in mass a bit back, just means more people have a chance of getting a copy, kudos gone perhaps of owning something not too many other people have but still a mighty fine tune. Oh by the way Ady I've still got the Ascots and Bobby Kline I bought off you when we were still in black and white £18.00 each I seem to remember lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell

[Guest DeeJay]

You know Mark, when you can by records like 'All I need is you' JUNE CONQUEST, PAULINE SHIVERS 'Won't you come back home', HERMAN GRIFFIN 'Are you for me or against me' JACKIE JASON 'Please Mr Sun' all for 20 quid or under, it does make a mockery of the whole thing. Cracking top drawer records which as you say, will give you tons of audio pleasure! I've bought loads more in that range this year and the quality level is superb. If anything because they are so cheap and so fooking good, those records actually give me more pleasure than a three figure item!

I buy whatever i like (meaning it could be 10p or 10 quid or a bit more sometimes)Living in the U.S. there's no dj's to follow But unless you get exposure to those "cheaper" quality records you don't know what they are, example being those mentioned above. They might be a top drawer sound at a reasonable price bit i dont know them, any chance of a sound clip?

[Simon M]

edit ..

Edited September 4, 2009 by Simon M

[Dave Moore]

I buy whatever i like (meaning it could be 10p or 10 quid or a bit more sometimes)Living in the U.S. there's no dj's to follow But unless you get exposure to those "cheaper" quality records you don't know what they are, example being those mentioned above. They might be a top drawer sound at a reasonable price bit i dont know them, any chance of a sound clip?

Clear yer lugs out Davie lad...I played Herman Griffin at the last US Hitsville shindig at La Qunita.

Can't have made that mush of an impression eh?

[Guest Bearsy]

Im pretty skint and have been for a while cos work has been very quiet, I want to still keep buying tunes new to me so to do that ive been selling tunes i know i can buy back anytime cos they aint rare and will be up for sale most of the time, But i wont sell my harder to find tunes no matter how skint i get, so maybe a reason for loads of tunes up for grabs is the same reason, cos i aint seen that many super rare tunes for sale just the same tunes that are always up for grabs

[Simon M]

Im pretty skint and have been for a while cos work has been very quiet, I want to still keep buying tunes new to me so to do that ive been selling tunes i know i can buy back anytime cos they aint rare and will be up for sale most of the time, But i wont sell my harder to find tunes no matter how skint i get, so maybe a reason for loads of tunes up for grabs is the same reason, cos i aint seen that many super rare tunes for sale just the same tunes that are always up for grabs

What ones you keeping ?

[Davenpete]

I think you WILL start seeing people (like me) start sniffing around buying again (especially as many have said) now that there is a lot of quality stuff at more sensible prices kicking around - who cares about the sheep's goldrush stuff (we've ALL had a fair amount of it when it wasn't insanely overpriced)... Apart of course from the ones it still hurts not to have - will get em sometime.

Bought my first half dozen records in about 4 years this month (despite the fact I deliberately don't have my record player set up at the mo as playing em causes the need to go out more than my business will allow - and with a deaf ear turned to the grumbling noises coming from the boss' chair), expect I'll be picking up more - still amazed how pricey a lot of the long term quality £5-10 jobbies I have/have had have now risen to though (must be my amazing record picking talent of 15 years ago of course ).

Dave

Edited September 4, 2009 by DaveNPete

[Trev Thomas]

the fact that tim brown has sold off a lot of his collection makes you wonder, does he know something we dont, as a dealer he's in a perfect position to see whats happening in the rare soul market place, maybe, with the currant recession & the other factors that have been mentioned here the bottom has started to drop out of the market, only time will tell

[Kegsy]

There has to be an element of the recession in this.

However, I would like to put forward an alternative theory.

I having been buying records in the states for many years

originally from paper lists and then, as I worked in computers, via

the internet from its very early days.The list of big ticket records

I have bought for next to nothing is endless, inc multi copies of

records considered to be quite rare.I have also bought countless records

blind, because they were so cheap, and got some blinding tunes along

with some right shite.

Ten years ago there were only a handful U.S. dealers who knew about the northern scene

and they only knew what I would call "established northern rarities".

They didnt have a clue about new discoveries.

Since I could buy a 100 quid record for 2 dollars I didnt mind selling

it on for say 60 quid, very nice profit indeedy, but also keeping the price down.

Before somebody starts bleating about "making money out of the music we all love"

let me point out the following.

If people like John Manship,Tim Brown and John Anderson had not been "making money

out of the music we all love" we would not have had such a brilliant scene for the

last forty years, as the records would never have been found.

There were two factors regarding the ballooning of prices in recent years.

1. The expansion of collecting rare soul records into a global phenomena,

I have often been surprised by how much people in say Japan or Europe

were prepared to pay for certain records.

2. The most important reason of all, the Price Guides published by

the U.K. dealers, a copy of which every half decent U.S. dealer now has.

The above factors combined to drive prices sky high, I would suggest so high in fact

that, the normal collector was not prepared to pay the prices on offer, thus causing

the prices to fall again, as seen recently.Let's face it how many U.K. collectors are

willing to pay the full "Book Price" for any record.

You will notice I have not cited Ebay or GEMM etc. in this price rise phenomena.

This is because, prior to the Price Guides, I could always buy records at a fraction

of there true value on these sites.

Although I will admit, that since the price guides, these sites have contributed to

the prices ballooning due to their global reach.

DISCUSS

Kegsy

[Guest James Trouble]

Truth be told, it's on its arse because everybodies turned into a bunch of whiney sheep with no direction [¢Å¾¢ James Trouble] LOL

You can use that, not copy righted, mate

Plenty of stranded sheep about, no doubt about that.

There are two very separate markets at the moment.

I think top price stuff, really rare things, the prices are holding up. Unknown/semi known stuff especially. It only takes a few independent thinking, confident in their own taste and knowledge, to keep the prices of that stuff inflated.

I think it's the mid price stuff, Ruby Andrews et al, where all the stranded sheep have steamed in by the heard over recent years, where the prices are now falling away fast because they've become bored with their box of toys, mid life crisis is over, they've got hitched up again after their divorce a few years ago or they have lost their jobs and have no savings to live on and finance their debt payments.

It's these sort of people who have put our economy in the hole it is in the first place. Buying records and other over priced assets on credit cards, Mortgaging the house to fill their bellies with vinyl. Steaming into property they can not afford and make no plans for their future should they happen to lose their jobs.

Trying to hit a market with no bids in it, very messy. I don't think the dealers will be able to cover it up for much longer, if they even are any more...

[John Reed]

Everyone is in agreement, that certain big ticket items will always be sought after and keep their price.

What frustrates me is the high price of more common/less demand stuff. If you look at the major dealers web sites these tunes are on there for long periods of time, so it leads me to think that either they have boxes of them, everybody has a copy or they must be over priced?

Yes, dealers initially set the price, but if they don't sell, surely that means that the market (buyers) feels that it is too expensive or not wanted, so who's right and who's wrong?

Dealers must be earning income by other means as holding stock costs money (warehouse and funding costs).

Its the same with every market place, if something is too expensive the price drops until a buyer is found, this doesn't seem to happen for the major dealers. Everything goes through cycles and record prices should be no different.

I havent got any of the price guides, but has any record in them gone down (edition to edition)?

[Guest]

You cant blame James Trouble , hes just got "Small Box Syndrome" . Hes just a youngster out to Dj really . But some of the better known DJ's they hardly play anything diffrent throughout the year , now theres something to put into the equation

i think that its the dj who are trying to buy sets that are keeping the prices high on some titles but those collectors who want good records will always go for cheaper stuff

[Guest]

I looked at my record boxes the other day and said to myself "how long have you been a deranged twat?" coupled with a lack of enthusiasm I've decided to get rid of 200 records and by a new car, simples.

hah did this 15 years ago for the same reason!

[Pete S]

The record mountain at my house grows because people order them and then don't pay for them.

[Stevie]

One element is people looking for something new / different, not just the same old, same old. If something comes up for sale on E Bay, JM or anywhere else that is rare / different / new it usually fetches good money, whether it be Funk, Modern, Northern, or definitely now, Boogie. If you look as this from a 'selling records' point of view, the losers are NS records in the £50 - £300 bracket, or maybe even higher than that. If people have to sell records for financial reasons, that is unfortunate and to be expected. But , if your trying to sell records for a profit, then it tends to be being able to offer something out of the ordinary, or even maybe at the right price. One point to remember is how much you paid for what you are selling. I have many friends who sell records for a living and if they have the stock, usually sourced from trips to the US, they are doing ok. I only dabble, but have still managed to sell recently a Hip Hop LP for $700, a UK Contempo 45 for $107 and 2 x Motown Promos for $60 each, as an example. I've still got the Larry Davis on Duke, Bobby Jason, Bobby Sheen's, Velvet Satins etc, etc. So maybe it's not a Mountain of Records, but a Mountain of the Wrong Records. Just my thoughts, Cheers, Ady.

Sums it up perfectly for me.

Good post.

[Modernsoulsucks]

I've been selling some cheaper stuff on here for a mate in the US. Out of 75, 50 have gone. They're not in-demand 45s but in the main just decent Northern records. There appear to be plenty of buyers. I don't think they're at give-away prices either but compared to what I see them elsewhere they are reasonable.

I think it boils down simply to people asking too much. James hits on a lot of the reasons why they do.

ROD

[Garethx]

I'm in agreement with pretty much everything written above.

I was particularly struck by Paul's post about looking at the record collection and thinking it's a luxury that at times is very easy to get rid of. How many hoof out a collection and never go back though?

I think I'm on my third collection at the moment: the first was records you buy when you're starting out: experimental in that your taste isn't truly developed and if you buy any good records it's kind of by accident. The second was that of a more confident collector with a fair bit of disposable income and included a lot of the current big stuff of the day. I think I threw out most of the first one and sold the second during hard times. The current one is largely cheap, good general soul records that I don't really care what others think of. It currently gives me far more pleasure to buy cheap but brilliant 45s on Stax, Fame, Goldwax, Hi, Chess, Wand, Atlantic etc. than to try to chase current cover-ups.

Of course all this is complicated if you deejay: that's when things get out of kilter and you can end up losing all sense of perspective about what constitutes:

i) a cheap record;

ii) a good record.

Edited September 4, 2009 by garethx

[Guest]

Simon M, on Today, 08:26 AM, said:

You cant blame James Trouble , hes just got "Small Box Syndrome" . Hes just a youngster out to Dj really . But some of the better known DJ's they hardly play anything diffrent throughout the year , now theres something to put into the equation

i think that its the dj who are trying to buy sets that are keeping the prices high on some titles but those collectors who want good records will always go for cheaper stuff

asked to delete simon M quote so hoepfull this worked

[Simon M]

Simon M, on Today, 08:26 AM, said:

You cant blame James Trouble , hes just got "Small Box Syndrome" . Hes just a youngster out to Dj really . But some of the better known DJ's they hardly play anything diffrent throughout the year , now theres something to put into the equation

i think that its the dj who are trying to buy sets that are keeping the prices high on some titles but those collectors who want good records will always go for cheaper stuff

asked to delete simon M quote so hoepfull this worked

Sorry Dinny , I should of said James Trub is a "Hot box DJ" who is fairly new to the NS scene and looks for diffrent records to use , but alas most DJ's do not on the Northern scene

Edited September 4, 2009 by Simon M

[Guest James Trouble]

Of course all this is complicated if you deejay: that's when things get out of kilter and you can end up losing all sense of perspective about what constitutes:

A) a cheap record;

a good record.

You mean when the fever sets in, the sickness in the head? Waking up at night with cold sweats, haunting nightmares, clammy palms when you type 'ebay.com' into your web browser? Gut wrenching hatred towards other human beings who won't tell you the real title of their latest cover ups, resentment towards those who play records after you spun them out first? A total loss of perspective about what's important in life as the all consuming 45 clouds your judgment? Broken furniture that's been smashed to pieces out of frustration after being outbid in the last 5 seconds of an auction YET AGAIN by the American multi millionaire who has already purchased £20k of records on ebay this week! Sex life falling away as you seem to spend all your waking hours exchanging emails with Yanks in the wee hours of the morning trying to close a deal on that elusive want? A whirl wind of bitterness as some jumped up greedy has been get's you bidding against your own bid by pretending to be representing an unknown secret collector who you've known for years and chat to reguarly on the phone about records?

Yup, it's a bitch.

But that's what separates the good DJs from from the half hearted efforts by many collectors who are happy to spin a few of their tunes they've had kicking around for 20 years. The good DJs sacrifice whatever it takes to drive the dance Are there any good DJs who don't? Are there any who are not all consumed by it?

Edited September 4, 2009 by James Trouble

[Steve G]

I think top price stuff, really rare things, the prices are holding up. Unknown/semi known stuff especially. It only takes a few independent thinking, confident in their own taste and knowledge, to keep the prices of that stuff inflated.

I think it's the mid price stuff, Ruby Andrews et al, where all the stranded sheep have steamed in by the heard over recent years, where the prices are now falling away fast

Agree with this, things like Ruby Andrews were never rare anyway, and hopefully some of the inflated prices for the cheese will drop now.

Top end seems quieter the last couple of years, but there are still enough people about as you say. And lots of deals go unnoticed and don't make the chattering classes.

[Garethx]

You mean when the fever sets in, the sickness in the head? Waking up at night with cold sweats, haunting nightmares, clammy palms when you type 'ebay.com' into your web browser? Gut wrenching hatred towards other human beings who won't tell you the real title of their latest cover ups, resentment towards those who play records after you spun them out first? A total loss of perspective about what's important in life as the all consuming 45 clouds clouds your judgment? Broken furniture that's been smashed to pieces out of frustration after being outbid YET AGAIN by the American multi millionaire who has already purchased £20k of records this week!

Yup, it's a bitch.

That's the one James.

[Sean Hampsey]

These 45's were all 35 cents to a dollar at one time.

The prices we've been paying (on the 'Rare Soul' scene) and the 'values' we've attributed to the records, these past 40 years, are really artificial prices, based purely on supply and demand (as Joe said earlier).

When times are good (folk have spare money sloshing around) demand is high and prices increase.

In recessionary times the double whammy kicks in - demand subsides and a surplus (of titles being disposed of) emerges.

Changed priorities, stages of life, also have an influence on what price we put on such items and how 'valuable' they are to us (as Paul said - Pa... I Need A Car).

But... as sure as eggs is eggs, when things pick up again (as they surely will) some folk will start wanting those little luxuries back in their lives again and prices will be back on the rise.

My problem is I collect pretty much everything Soul related (US/UK/60's/70's/80's/Southern/Northern/Modern/Crossover/LP's/CD's the whole nine yards) so it's always been an expensive habit, but the past 12 months I must admit I've had a bit of a field day on the 'gap fillers' that have become available.

Take me to that mountain!

Sean

[NEV]

the fact that tim brown has sold off a lot of his collection makes you wonder, does he know something we dont, as a dealer he's in a perfect position to see whats happening in the rare soul market place, maybe, with the currant recession & the other factors that have been mentioned here the bottom has started to drop out of the market, only time will tell

Trev ,i would'nt try and read too much into the Tim Brown situation i:e selling a chunk of his collection because he knows something we dont???"

My take on it is and i reckon im not far wrong on this

A certain person is in a position ,which means he has to sell to raise capitol ,to pay a certain bill or be in a bit of trouble

Why else would he need to raise a particular sum of £50,000 in a certain amount of time

The fact is ,if all of us had known this and played the waiting game ,i bet those records would have gone for less ,and that my friend is IMHO why the whole deal was done under such a cloud!

How many people would honestly have said "oh Tim's in a bit of financial trouble ,should i offer him top dollar to help out ??,or use it to their advantage and barter ??

Human nature dictates the latter ,because we live and have done for a very long time now ..IN A CAPITOLIST SOCIETY

P.s ..sorry Mark ,for going off on a tangent from your original post

[Guest James Trouble]

Agree with this, things like Ruby Andrews were never rare anyway, and hopefully some of the inflated prices for the cheese will drop now.

Like Jo Jama

Edited September 4, 2009 by James Trouble

[NEV]

Agree with this, things like Ruby Andrews were never rare anyway, and hopefully some of the inflated prices for the cheese will drop now.

Top end seems quieter the last couple of years, but there are still enough people about as you say. And lots of deals go unnoticed and don't make the chattering classes.

Very well put Steve

Big deals still being done quitely ,involving top records for big money

I spoke to someone recently who sold a handful to a guy in the states for £40,000 and others to top dj's for big money ,prices he said ,he could'nt afford to turn down for records he never ever thought he'd part with

My lips are sealed out of respect for seller and buyer's ,so don't even ask

The fact is there are a lot of records out there that still command mega bucks and way too many that sell for a lot higher than they should !

It's a buyer's market for the not so rare ,and a sellers ,for the ultra rare ,so what's changed???

Money's tighter ,people are prepared to wait for lesser rarities ,and are maybe being more choosy what they spend their hard earned on.

[Raremusicdirect]

Hi,

Just another small factor to add besides all the well made points about supply and demand.

As many 45s now make their way to ebay, gemm and other related sites the volume of supplied 45s available to all 24/7 via the internet has certainly increased.

You may have once given old personal items away or donated them to charity ; many are now car boot sold or placed on ebay. Records have followed a similar change. People don't chuck them away for cents when they are easy to sell on or list for sale.

So I do think their is an increased supply and increased knowledge and that's combined with a general downturn and lack of cash to purchase.

However, that wasn't my point............

My point is mp3 music.

The Download Is King.

Many people collect no vinyl at all, some no cds at all either. Why ? Well loads of tunes are now available for free on internet download. Much of it certainly illegal, but its there.

You can use many of the torrent sites, free share sites even You Tube to collect thousands of tracks very quickly and easily. I met a guy on the continent who had over 75,000 tracks in his "to be sorted folder"..........hundreds of thousands of tracks overall....................

For most common groups and labels you can ususally find an mp3 somewhere within minutes to 4/5 hrs. Mid range rare stuff in a day or so. Very rare stuff within a week.

Personally I still like vinyl, but maybe the trend is moving - mp3 wise - and that's also affecting the need to buy for some..........

[i do record my vinyl to mp3 now]

[Paul Shirley]

yeah true james .but you can also say the same thing on some rarer tunes .how many times have you seen a dog rare record with a big silly price tag that sounds bloody awful . i have lots o times and i certinly aint one of the sheep , as for buying ten pound records and all that it dont work for me as i just end up with loads and loads of worthles records that dont realy make the grade. quality dearer tunes that are not easy to find will keep there value or at least you have more chance of geting your cash back with them , and as for the people that call you every name under the sun for having er? trophy records tel me somthing new ? there aint nothing worse than having to listen to small minded arse holes that tend to be gealous to death , if folks prefare to spend there hard earnd cash on tunes good for them . some folks drive nice cars have posh life styles go on big fancy holidays and some dont!!! if a bloke spends all his cash on a record its his choice i can think of worse people . like the tight fisted twatts that go on luxury fancy holidays year after year and only buys bootlegs ... anyway ive got to go now having murder trying to find some pants big enough round the crotch

[Dysonsoul]

Agree with this, things like Ruby Andrews were never rare anyway, and hopefully some of the inflated prices for the cheese will drop now.

Top end seems quieter the last couple of years, but there are still enough people about as you say. And lots of deals go unnoticed and don't make the chattering classes.

I can certainly relate to the above statement,i tend to speak from the shop floor perspective ie venues,lists and site selling.to be honest everything seems to tittle along as it always has,but so many deals are going through the week in private for large amounts of money over sea's and here in uk, certainly it's down to having the right records but always has been . i think most deals should be private certainly when they're oddball 45's that buyers want to keep stum on.I'd say there's never been as many people into buying original soul 45's,be it hotboxing or hoarding - hard times will always come and go but if you love your records then they're here to stay..

re browny he's let maybe 100 and odd 45's go most of them being well into 4 figures,there are a few reasons for it and it ain't owt to do with the bottom dropping out of it.

there's one thing for sure i'll keep buying things i ain't got.

[Mark Bicknell]

I can certainly relate to the above statement,i tend to speak from the shop floor perspective ie venues,lists and site selling.to be honest everything seems to tittle along as it always has,but so many deals are going through the week in private for large amounts of money over sea's and here in uk, certainly it's down to having the right records but always has been . i think most deals should be private certainly when they're oddball 45's that buyers want to keep stum on.I'd say there's never been as many people into buying original soul 45's,be it hotboxing or hoarding - hard times will always come and go but if you love your records then they're here to stay..

re browny he's let maybe 100 and odd 45's go most of them being well into 4 figures,there are a few reasons for it and it ain't owt to do with the bottom dropping out of it.

there's one thing for sure i'll keep buying things i ain't got.

Nice to have it from someone who actually wheels and deals on a major basis, certainly makes a lot of sense Andy and you are so right about the bigger deals being very much hush hush, moved one or two myself in private and all done with no fuss or hassel.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Ady Pountain]

"Oh by the way Ady I've still got the Ascots and Bobby Kline I bought off you when we were still in black and white £18.00 each I seem to remember lol"

Great example of keen pricing Mark! Was it you that turned down the Eddie Parker for £85? If I remember rightly it was about 25 years ago!

Cheers, Ady