Suinoz Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Been mulling over this question for some time before putting it on soul source as i know the recent debate concerning ovo raised a few heated answers but here goes. Do anniversary singles count if played in deejay's sets. ie there are some fantastic tunes on the 100 club anniversary releases and i for one do play a couple of them. BUT here's where i can see the replies flying back with some venom. What about the Wigan Casino 25th anniversary double sided singles with songs like Lester Tipton's this won't change and Al Williams i am nothing. Both big number, rare records in their original form. Let's not forget that these were not ' true bootlegs ' but a legitimate limited run on quality vinyl with great sound quality. I did raise this question with one of the U.K top name deejay's at Skeggy last year and he said he would'nt have a problem with it so long as they were from a limited run.So the question is... Who would really care if they were played as part of a set if the dancers wanted to hear them ?? I do expect a barrage of half angry responses so will have the boxing gloves ready. Seriously though, i would appreciate some thoughts on this. Please try and keep the answers clean and don't try to slag me off as some half ass. Tony, spreading the Faith down under.
Guest Dante Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I personally don't think it has anything to do with it being limited runs, that's just being absurdly snob. The thing is, IMO, if it's a previously unreleased track (and if it's a good one, of course ). If it has been on vinyl before (as those Wigan things you mention), then it wouldn't qualify as OV, but if it's from an acetate or a master tape, and it has never been issued before, I'd say go ahead...
Suinoz Posted September 3, 2009 Author Posted September 3, 2009 I personally don't think it has anything to do with it being limited runs, that's just being absurdly snob. The thing is, IMO, if it's a previously unreleased track (and if it's a good one, of course ). If it has been on vinyl before (as those Wigan things you mention), then it wouldn't qualify as OV, but if it's from an acetate or a master tape, and it has never been issued before, I'd say go ahead... Yep i suppose you could say that about any of the unreleased tracks that are floating about nowaday's. Stuff that has been put on vinyl and classed as ' carvers ', and is being played at several gigs going by some of the playlists i see on here. I have just had 2 unreleased stunning tracks put onto a 7 inch by vinyl carvers in London and fully intend to play them as i know they will be dancefloor biggies. Ultimately, with regards to say, Lester Tipton, this is a record that very few deejay's actually own SO to get it played at say your typical soul night it would have to be from one of the Wigan 25th anniversary discs as it was only ever replicated on one of them ie never booted ( in that sense ). You could argue that it may be played at one of the 'Rare soul nights' on original vinyl but not everyone interested in the music can alway's attend one of these events. There will obviously be a lot of varying answers to this thread when people start to wake up in the U.K ( it's mid-day here ) no offence intended so i wait with baited breath. Tony T BONE. OZ.
Guest SoulRenaissance Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Yep i suppose you could say that about any of the unreleased tracks that are floating about nowaday's. Stuff that has been put on vinyl and classed as ' carvers ', and is being played at several gigs going by some of the playlists i see on here. I have just had 2 unreleased stunning tracks put onto a 7 inch by vinyl carvers in London and fully intend to play them as i know they will be dancefloor biggies. Ultimately, with regards to say, Lester Tipton, this is a record that very few deejay's actually own SO to get it played at say your typical soul night it would have to be from one of the Wigan 25th anniversary discs as it was only ever replicated on one of them ie never booted ( in that sense ). You could argue that it may be played at one of the 'Rare soul nights' on original vinyl but not everyone interested in the music can alway's attend one of these events. There will obviously be a lot of varying answers to this thread when people start to wake up in the U.K ( it's mid-day here ) no offence intended so i wait with baited breath. Tony T BONE. OZ. Unissued tracks, by all means. Rare tracks a no, no. People should make an effort to attend venues where the dj's who've got them play them. That is what Northern/ Rare soul was all about, getting to venues where the dj's have them. No excuse for being lazy. The Kent 6t's anniversary singles were played by those lucky enough to have them in the West Midlands back in the 90's, and went down well with a new audience. But boots/ legal reissues/ etc. were not. Spreading the thread somewhat regarding the carvers. Again unissued, acetates, even album tracks on occasion fair play. But it has come to notice that people are getting carvers done of indemand or rare tracks and playing them. Sorry thar's not on. Some of these names are getting recognition and being bulled up by their vocal supporters on the scene on Soul Source for their great sets, but all they are is bootleggers. Plain as, we could all do that. To me, i wouldn't book them as a promoter knowing that they had carvers in their sets. If we do condone that, we may as well atttend your local soul night where the bootlegs are on show. People pay money, and put the time in finding rare and obscure tunes. To then have someone do a carver of it is unforgiveable. I move. Martyn
grant Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Yep i suppose you could say that about any of the unreleased tracks that are floating about nowaday's. Stuff that has been put on vinyl and classed as ' carvers ', and is being played at several gigs going by some of the playlists i see on here. I have just had 2 unreleased stunning tracks put onto a 7 inch by vinyl carvers in London and fully intend to play them as i know they will be dancefloor biggies. Ultimately, with regards to say, Lester Tipton, this is a record that very few deejay's actually own SO to get it played at say your typical soul night it would have to be from one of the Wigan 25th anniversary discs as it was only ever replicated on one of them ie never booted ( in that sense ). You could argue that it may be played at one of the 'Rare soul nights' on original vinyl but not everyone interested in the music can alway's attend one of these events. There will obviously be a lot of varying answers to this thread when people start to wake up in the U.K ( it's mid-day here ) no offence intended so i wait with baited breath. Tony T BONE. OZ. agree. would be nice to hear the likes of lester tipton played out at soul venues as we cant all make the rare soul niters and i just wanna dance to it
jocko Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 No matter how you dress this up this is a bootleg (i.e. the Lestor Tipton "lmtd run") against non bootlegs (Kent 45's) debate If you still have a desire to debate this you are either new to here, a troublemaker or an Aussie that reads upside down Please close this down now, its tiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeed.
Suinoz Posted September 3, 2009 Author Posted September 3, 2009 Unissued tracks, by all means. Rare tracks a no, no. People should make an effort to attend venues where the dj's who've got them play them. That is what Northern/ Rare soul was all about, getting to venues where the dj's have them. No excuse for being lazy. The Kent 6t's anniversary singles were played by those lucky enough to have them in the West Midlands back in the 90's, and went down well with a new audience. But boots/ legal reissues/ etc. were not. Spreading the thread somewhat regarding the carvers. Again unissued, acetates, even album tracks on occasion fair play. But it has come to notice that people are getting carvers done of indemand or rare tracks and playing them. Sorry thar's not on. Some of these names are getting recognition and being bulled up by their vocal supporters on the scene on Soul Source for their great sets, but all they are is bootleggers. Plain as, we could all do that. To me, i wouldn't book them as a promoter knowing that they had carvers in their sets. If we do condone that, we may as well atttend your local soul night where the bootlegs are on show. People pay money, and put the time in finding rare and obscure tunes. To then have someone do a carver of it is unforgiveable. I move. Martyn Agree totally with you there Martyn. The track i have just had put on a carver are Patrice Holloway for the love of Mike backed with Larry Hammond sad sad way. Both unreleased in their day and stunning dancers. Defo would'nt even consider popping a bootleg on the decks as i do play ovo when guest deejaying especially in the U.K. i reckon i will leave it at that, stay soulful. Tony T BONE. OZ.
Dave Rimmer Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Agree totally with you there Martyn. The track i have just had put on a carver are Patrice Holloway for the love of Mike backed with Larry Hammond sad sad way. Both unreleased in their day and stunning dancers. Defo would'nt even consider popping a bootleg on the decks as i do play ovo when guest deejaying especially in the U.K. i reckon i will leave it at that, stay soulful. Tony T BONE. OZ. Isn't that Larry Hammond track the one that Dave Rivers mate's recorded in a bathroom a few years ago
Pete Morgan Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Lester Tipton got released on Grapevine also, so that is a legitimate UK release , the plot thickens ! I must admit i played All of my life - Ringleaders( anniversary single) at the sydney weekender , it went down a storm and i did not have a sleepless night about playing it. I probably would not play it in the UK though if i had the opportunity ,as i may get hung drawn and quartered ! I thought at the time the tune fitted into what i was playing , enjoyed hearing it . I would not play the flip though , as it had a release Best Pete Morgan
Pete Morgan Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 . Please try and keep the answers clean and don't try to slag me off as some half ass. Tony, spreading the Faith down under. Tony, Lester Tipton was played at the Sydney weekender , on la Beat By Dave A . shame you couldn't make it and spread some faith to us poor mortals in Sydney lol pete m
Pete S Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 People pay money, and put the time in finding rare and obscure tunes. To then have someone do a carver of it is unforgiveable. I move. Martyn No, murder, rape, arson, - that's unforgiveable. Cutting a record - it's a minor irritation. Let's have some sense here!
Paul Shirley Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 agree. would be nice to hear the likes of lester tipton played out at soul venues as we cant all make the rare soul niters and i just wanna dance to it i will own an original lester tipton by the wknd with a bit of luck .i also own some nice rarer tunes and i run a or did run a soul night , please please dont make the mistake in taring every soul night with the same (oldies pressings brush) we only hire dj's with proper labels always have done . 1
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 No, murder, rape, arson, - that's unforgiveable. Cutting a record - it's a minor irritation. Let's have some sense here! You forgot to add deceiving the ref i will own an original lester tipton by the wknd with a bit of luck .i also own some nice rarer tunes and i run a or did run a soul night , please please dont make the mistake in taring every soul night with the same (oldies pressings brush) we only hire dj's with proper labels always have done . Up here in darkest Lancashire most if not all of the main dj (soul nights) sets are original!!
Guest SoulRenaissance Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 No, murder, rape, arson, - that's unforgiveable. Cutting a record - it's a minor irritation. Let's have some sense here! Not if you've paid £5000 and got the only copy. Okay maybe overdramatic, but just trying to emphasise the point.
Daved Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Suioz, do you what you want. As long as your open about it and the punters don't mind, then it's no big deal. You don't need any seal of approval imo
Guest Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Suioz, do you what you want. As long as your open about it and the punters don't mind, then it's no big deal. You don't need any seal of approval imo You forgot to add,in your own house !! Edited September 3, 2009 by ken
Suinoz Posted September 4, 2009 Author Posted September 4, 2009 No matter how you dress this up this is a bootleg (i.e. the Lestor Tipton "lmtd run") against non bootlegs (Kent 45's) debate If you still have a desire to debate this you are either new to here, a troublemaker or an Aussie that reads upside down Please close this down now, its tiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeed. Hey Jocko there was never any debate over the Lester Tipton track. If you have the brains to read the commencement ( that would be the start to you ) you would know that. Your comments are nothing more than i would expect as it's obvious you probably never say anything nice about anyone. Go and have another beer and bury your head in the sand or take it off and make a fence with it. Chubby Brown would have the right name for you.. THICK T--T. Tony T BONE, Soulin' in the land of Sun.
Chalky Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Isn't that Larry Hammond track the one that Dave Rivers mate's recorded in a bathroom a few years ago It was recorded in Dave Burton's flat in Hong Kong about 10 years ago. I did have an e-mail from DAve telling me the story but I lost it. You can even hear a mobile phone begin to ring and then Larry ad-libbing the vocals when it does. As for the Wigan 25th jobs, boots aren't they, and probably a fair few other anniversay records too. Kent no problem and would play the unissued stuff myself, but not the stuff that has seen a release.
Chalky Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Lester Tipton got released on Grapevine also, so that is a legitimate UK release , the plot thickens ! I must admit i played All of my life - Ringleaders( anniversary single) at the sydney weekender , it went down a storm and i did not have a sleepless night about playing it. I probably would not play it in the UK though if i had the opportunity ,as i may get hung drawn and quartered ! I thought at the time the tune fitted into what i was playing , enjoyed hearing it . I would not play the flip though , as it had a release Best Pete Morgan Who's anniversary is the Ringleaders disc? Is it legit? I know of the M-pac boot?
Dave Rimmer Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Who's anniversary is the Ringleaders disc? Is it legit? I know of the M-pac boot? It was one of the Winsford allnighter Anniversary Singles when Pete & Barry ran it. 1
Guest SoulRenaissance Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Who's anniversary is the Ringleaders disc? Is it legit? I know of the M-pac boot? Are we talking about the white lookalike M-pac label? Is it a boot? After all it was never officially issued, and would it qualify as a carver, but with a geniuine label? Martyn
Chalky Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Are we talking about the white lookalike M-pac label? Is it a boot? After all it was never officially issued, and would it qualify as a carver, but with a geniuine label? Martyn Think it is a lookalike demo and it is a boot not a carver.
Guest SoulRenaissance Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Think it is a lookalike demo and it is a boot not a carver. Who'd officially put this out then?
Ernie Andrews Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Making a carver off an original acetate is ano no as you are illegally copying a rights owned original recording. Same for carvers cut from Tapes - You have to own the rights or be licensed to do it legally otherwise its a boot no matter what format its in.
Guest DeeJay Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 I personally don't think it has anything to do with it being limited runs, that's just being absurdly snob. The thing is, IMO, if it's a previously unreleased track (and if it's a good one, of course ). If it has been on vinyl before (as those Wigan things you mention), then it wouldn't qualify as OV, but if it's from an acetate or a master tape, and it has never been issued before, I'd say go ahead... I agree if the only way (within reason) that the record could be played is via a re-issue which in this case is the original A record i regularly play is Chuck Jackson "What's with this loneliness" only 45 available on anniversary single. Where as Lester Tipton (although difficult to acquire) is available. Also think that when there's only a one off acetate and the choon has been "pressed" then it's ok to play Like"Marrying Kind," "Four Temples," and such like. DJ I think it's all common sense really
Paul Shirley Posted December 2, 2020 Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) On 03/09/2009 at 15:01, Steve Lane said: deleted didn’t realise threads 11 years old Edited December 2, 2020 by Paul Shirley 1
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