Pete S anyone??

Edited August 26, 200915 yr by timthemod

  On 26/08/2009 at 16:06, timthemod said:

Pete S anyone??

Perhaps they fell out, perhaps for juke box use or perhaps because some thought it cool. I remember removing the centres from some in the 70's for just that reason.

No doubt though, it seriously devalues the record and these days I'd rarely buy a UK issue with no centre.

Best,

John.

  On 26/08/2009 at 16:06, timthemod said:

Pete S anyone??

The late 60's / early 70's UK Polydor releases were (mostly) pressed without centres.

This included the Stax (2025 series) and Atlantic (2091 series) - Polydor licensed stuff.

Is that what you are referring to?

Sean

Edited August 26, 200915 yr by Sean Hampsey

  On 26/08/2009 at 16:30, Sean Hampsey said:

The late 60's / early 70's UK Polydor releases were (mostly) pressed without centres.

This included the Stax (2025 series) and Atlantic (2091 series) - Polydor licensed stuff.

Is that what you are referring to?

Sean

Yes all of the labels which came to be part of Polygram pressed the majority of records with large centres from 1969 onwards; Philips, Fontana, Polydor, Atlantic, Mojo, Stax and so on. Why? Maybe it cost less?

  On 26/08/2009 at 16:10, John Al said:

No doubt though, it seriously devalues the record and these days I'd rarely buy a UK issue with no centre.

Centre knocked out of UK 45?, Kiss Of Death!!

  On 26/08/2009 at 17:48, Pete S said:

Yes all of the labels which came to be part of Polygram pressed the majority of records with large centres from 1969 onwards; Philips, Fontana, Polydor, Atlantic, Mojo, Stax and so on. Why? Maybe it cost less?

Probberly so they would end up on juke boxes,maybe

  On 26/08/2009 at 18:10, webbydublin said:

But then in the early 70's lots of labels like Avco,Chelsea and Polydor had moulded plastic centres.Anybody know this was??

probably so they could play " mouldy old dough".....LT Pigeon..

  On 26/08/2009 at 18:10, webbydublin said:

But then in the early 70's lots of labels like Avco,Chelsea and Polydor had moulded plastic centres.Anybody know this was??

They were injection moulded - same process as with styrene records only vinyl was used in this case. I imagine it was cheaper. I know a lot of the phonogram stuff was actually manufactured in Europe and then shipped here.

  On 26/08/2009 at 16:06, timthemod said:

Pete S anyone??

Hello,

45s from the Philips/Phonogram/Polygram plant, including Polydor and licensed labels, were pressed mostly with large centre-holes because the parent company was a Dutch-German combine and that was the style at all of their plants in Europe and the UK.

The 45s were also suitable for juke boxes etc.

Even in the early '70s when they were pressing injection-molded discs (but using a vinyl compound rather than styrene) with 'painted on' labels, they still made batches with large centre-holes.

Centres are often cut out (dinked) after pressing but with the Phonogram plant I think they were pressed that way. It's likely they had stamper die sets for large and small hole versions.

Paul

  On 26/08/2009 at 18:31, Paul Mooney said:

Hello,

45s from the Philips/Phonogram/Polygram plant, including Polydor and licensed labels, were pressed mostly with large centre-holes because the parent company was a Dutch-German combine and that was the style at all of their plants in Europe and the UK.

The 45s were also suitable for juke boxes etc.

Even in the early '70s when they were pressing injection-molded discs (but using a vinyl compound rather than styrene) with 'painted on' labels, they still made batches with large centre-holes.

Centres are often cut out (dinked) after pressing but with the Phonogram plant I think they were pressed that way. It's likely they had stamper die sets for large and small hole versions.

Paul

You're just saying the same as me only more coherently and with greater detail

this process started in jan 1968 and ended in aug 1973. the phonogram labels issued a lot of their stuff making them jukebox friendly. some items are never seen with 3 or 4 pronged centers( american youth choir etc) and others like timi yuro are never seen with the 3 pronged black spider. there is a proper 3 pronged black spider that is the original center for these 45`s

dave

As Godzilla said, the reason for injection-molding was to reduce costs.

The process used stamper dies which could be good for up to 50,000 copies. Stampers used in conventional 'compression' pressing are only good for 1,000 copies or so. I think I mentioned this on another thread recently (the one about poor condition records).

Unlike the Americans who used styrene in the injection-molding process, the Philips/Phonogram/Polygram plant used vinyl. A further cost saving was that the label design was impressed into the disc and the label surface areas were painted. That saved additional costs of printing paper labels.

Apart from cost savings, the plant could offer quicker turnaround times to customers.

I once did quite a lot of research into the history of pressing records using the injection-molding process but I don't recall if it was ever published anywhere. The key thing was that the process could be automated. In some cases, one operator could run four machines. And some machines had several bays (or cavitities) so each could produce up to four discs in one stroke.

If I can find my notes I might upload them somewhere, if anyone is interested.

  On 26/08/2009 at 18:51, Paul Mooney said:

If I can find my notes I might upload them somewhere, if anyone is interested.

I love that geeky stuff. Post 'em up if you can lay your hands on them, Paul

  On 26/08/2009 at 18:54, Godzilla said:

I love that geeky stuff. Post 'em up if you can lay your hands on them, Paul

You're sadder than I am, Godzilla.

To be honest I find it fascinating because I've pressed a lot of records over the years and when I was a kid I worked in a "press shop" (pressing metals rather than plastics).

A friend of mine did the same thing but with plastics.

My dad was manager of an engineering company which was in the pressing business. In the 1960s they pressed aluminium 'biscuits' for records. It turns out they were blanks for a company which made acetate plates. Every once in a while they ordered a batch of them.

This kind of stuff fascinates me.

  On 26/08/2009 at 19:54, Paul Mooney said:

My dad was manager of an engineering company which was in the pressing business. In the 1960s they pressed aluminium 'biscuits' for records. It turns out they were blanks for a company which made acetate plates...

...and my mum made ties for Tootal. Actually that has no relevance whatsoever. Hope you can find the info

Godz

  On 26/08/2009 at 18:19, big chris said:

probably so they could play " mouldy old dough".....LT Pigeon..

I think you were listening to Radio 2 this evening?

P

  On 26/08/2009 at 20:01, Godzilla said:

...and my mum made ties for Tootal. Actually that has no relevance whatsoever. Hope you can find the info

Godz

I once worked for a specialist company which bottled champagne for battleship launching ceremonies.

We weren't very busy.

A lot of DJs used to take the centres out to make them look more like imports......as well.

Edited August 26, 200915 yr by Steve G

  On 26/08/2009 at 20:55, Steve G said:

A lot of DJs used to take the centres out to make them look more like imports......as well.

Yes Steve, strange as it seems today, some people used to do that when we were so obsessed with all things American.

I remember when I did it a friend of mine did it at school. Luckily, I he soon realised it was a stupid thing to do. Just as bad as writing your name on the label or the LP cover.

These days I hate to see a UK 45 with a missing centre. I just won't buy a copy, no matter how cheap it is. The same applies if it has "Tracy" (or whatever) scribbled across the label.

Maybe I need therapy?

  On 26/08/2009 at 20:55, Steve G said:

A lot of DJs used to take the centres out to make them look more like imports......as well.

Easier to get em on the decks over an adapter? Pulling one off after playing can cause the middle to break off on a tight spindle.

  On 26/08/2009 at 21:17, KevH said:

Easier to get em on the decks over an adapter? Pulling one off after playing can cause the middle to break off on a tight spindle.

Very true! Did it with couple myself on Garrad decks which had long spindles and sometimes you'd get impatient between records!

Ian D

  On 26/08/2009 at 22:04, Ian Dewhirst said:

Very true! Did it with couple myself on Garrad decks which had long spindles and sometimes you'd get impatient between records!

Ian D

Sorry for going a bit off-topic but you've reminded me of the long spindle on those old Dansette Viva record players when I was a kid.

You could stack about 10 singles on them and they would drop on top of each other, one at a time. Sometimes, several dropped at once so you'd miss out on a couple of tracks!

By the time you got half a dozen 45s on the turntable, the arm was pointed at a very high angle and the top record was running very slow.

Those were the hi-tech days, eh?

But you might be too young to remember, Ian.

I hate 45s with small holes, even today when I get them I pop/cut those suckers right out.

Thanks for all your informative replies. At least now when I bidding on such items, I'll know that they probably never had centres so it shouldn't devalue them.