Ian Dewhirst Transaction

[boba]

So I was keeping quiet about all this, and I was pretty pissed already, but I got my record in the mail today and now I'm extremely pissed at Ian's total BS (which I'm sure he'll respond with more smooth talk). I was going to just keep quiet but I'm just posting my experience here, hopefully other people will avoid getting burned.

I sent Ian a priced want list of very obscure sweet soul records. They were all sweet soul with no northern interest, priced pretty fairly in my opinion. He came back with 3 of the records, saying that they all were priced too low for the seller and that he had no control over the prices and that the mystery seller all wanted 550 pounds for each of the 3 records. I felt that 550 pounds was way over the top for all 3 records but one of them (the major III -- what girl a girl on TOI) is a very rare Chicago record. I'm in Chicago, met two of the members and want it to record for them (the fact that they don't have it means nothing about the rarity, no Chicago groups own any of their records, even the most common ones), and want it to collect. I had offered $600 which I felt was fair and was way more than it would go for on ebay or any other auction, it's just an obscurity and there's no northern side.

I'm not rich but I feel it's a rare chance to get the record, and I can't really afford it right now but I went for it because when am I going to get a chance to get it again. So I go for it. I asked if I at least could do a paypal transfer and have him pay the shipping. I get an email back saying something to the effect of "the way it's going to work is that I'm going to do a bank transfer into Ian's account" which adds an extra $45 in fees for me. Anyways, I figured if the seller's being a hardass about it, fine, there's nothing I can do. When it's revealed that the seller is TIM BROWN, I'm pissed as hell, because THIS RECORD IS PRICED AT 75 POUNDS IN TIM BROWN'S NEW PRICE GUIDE. EVEN IF THAT IS A TOTAL BS PRICE, DID TIM BROWN REALLY COME BACK AND SAY THAT $600 WAS TOO LOW? HERE IS A PIC OF THE PRICE GUIDE:

This is all done in secret and who knows what Ian is telling Tim, I usually wouldn't believe a word that Trouble says (e.g. he obviously did not have 2 copies of "james lovejoy" in the back of his hotbox packed up while he was moving that he couldn't post because he was moving), I have no idea why Ian didn't play it a little smoother and just deny that the seller was Tim. AT LEAST I WOULDN'T BE PAYING $1000 TO A SELLER THAT HAD PUBLISHED A PRICE GUIDE (WHICH I HAPPENED TO HAVE BOUGHT DIRECTLY FROM HIM BY THE WAY) WHICH CONTAINED THE SAME RECORD LISTED FOR 75 POUNDS. Hey Ian, how much did you take off the top of that???? No commission, right???? At the LEAST you could have been smoother and run your game a little tighter and denied everything Trouble said AND EVERYONE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED YOU.

THEN, in the transaction, I asked several times for 1) the package to be sent signed for and 2) the package to be sent packed in a US-style mailer and not in a flimsy-UK style mailer. I have had AT LEAST 5 packages broken specifically because they were packed in a flimsy UK style mailer. Here are exact quotes from our PMs:

Me: "please make sure the record is shipped in a US-style mailer well padded, signed for, to..."

Ian: "No probs. Will confirm from this end as soon as money arrives, which I presume will be tomorrow or the day after. And don't worry about the packaging - I send out hundreds of packages every year and never had a breakage yet (I do Disgogs and E-Bay myself)."

Me: "Thanks, I have had several records packed in the thin UK-style thin mailers broken which is why I have am asking for the US -style mailers if you got one, even a used-one reversed. Thanks."

Ian: "Don't worry Boba, you'd need a sledgehammer to bust one of my packages (he said with justifiable pride LOL)......"

Anyways, I get the package today and 1) it is NOT sent signed for and 2) IT IS PACKED IN A FLIMSY STYLE UK MAILER. Here are pics so you can see how it is sent (note the lack of "signed for" on the front)

There was one filler pad on each side of the record, I could easily crack the package with much less than a sledgehammer and I have had better packed packages broken with less which is why I SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR IT TO BE NOT PACKED NOT IN A FLIMSY UK MAILER. I guess if you read the back and forth above he never specifically says he won't, but that's his smooth-talking I guess, don't trust a word he says. He did say "no probs" specifically in response to my request of it being sent signed for in a US mailer though.

There was never a word about condition of the record throughout the transaction, the record was in about VG+ condition and had slight mildew spotting on the label on both sides (I can scan it if people care), you'd think if I were paying $1000 for a record he would mention it?

All the stuff about having to pay a premium to get stuff out of Tim Brown's personal collection is also total BS, I'm a casual buyer off of his list, occasionally buying lower priced items, and I'm sure even I have an email I can dig up from a couple years ago saying he's selling his collection and to send a want list (I had sent a short want list back then and I remember buying a copy of first class on thereway for 25 pounds at the time).

Usually I wouldn't believe a word Trouble says but everything he said in the thread is 100% true. This had been an extremely bad experience. The worst part is that Ian is totally shaking you down mafioso style for every penny, yet responding with total BS about how he's such a great guy rooting for you, trying to fight for you and get you the best price, do you a favor, etc. Total sleaze. At least he could be straight up with it. I can't believe the total BS that went on. The only positive thing for me is that I paid way less than 2000 pounds for the precisions on hen-mar recently, I didn't know that anyone wanted the crappy northern side.

BUYER BEWARE.

[Mark Bicknell]

Boba, you sound pretty pissed off but do you not feel that you could of maybe resolved this with Ian and maybe requested a refund or something on the transaction before coming onto a public forum like this to name and shame someone, I'm not taking sides here but all this is going to do is turn into yet another slagging match between two members on here and get totally out of control with no resolution at all, if you were not happy with the condition then most people who trade in records value their reputation and will refund on records.

Regards and good luck - Mark Bicknell.

[Simon M]

Sorry to hear this Boba

Simon

Edited August 25, 2009 by Simon M

[Guest James Trouble]

Hey Boba,

Sorry to hear about your experience. It's a terrible affair, but one I tried to (and hopefully) warned people about.

Dewheist pretended it was some secret hermit collector that no one knew about. A terrible, terrible lie.

Dewheist asks for wants with maximum price you will pay. He then goes to Tim Brown and gets his sale price. If your want price is more than the sale price Dewheist pockets the difference, pure profit no tax paid. I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Brown sold Boba's record for £75 and Dewheist pocketed the extra few hundred quid. I think Tim Brown needs to get on here and then Dewheist needs to refund the buyers he has conned with the profit he has taken out of them.

Dewheist used Soul-Source like a secret group of buyers, FACT Tim Brown did not know that Dewheist was useing Soul-Source to sell his records. FACT. Dewheist acted like he had secret buyers, not plastering it all over soul-source. The only reason Tim Brown knew about Dewheist's terribel behavior was when I told him what was going on. Dewheist has used the forum with contempt and disrespected all it's users. Surely if any profit for these sales should have gone to Mike for all the work he puts into the forum, not to some washed up, hypocritical, out of touch, greedy chancer?

I know for a fact that Dewheist got me bidding against my own bid with Tim Brown, but what makes the matter worse for me is that Tim doesn't even have the record and he told Dewheist to not be negotiating with anyone about it because he doesn't have it. Why did Dewheist carry it on? Is he drunk on the talk of money and rare records? It's crazy.

25-20=5 That's 25% profit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For doing what, exactly? And no Dewheist don't go smooth talking shite again, you have not told Tim Brown about all the money you have taken because the buyers all sent the money to you and you sent it onto Tim Brown.

Pure slimey opportunistic greed.

Edited August 25, 2009 by James Trouble

[Reforee]

Ive known Tim Brown and dealt with TB for about 20 years and he is pretty straight when it comes to records.

I personally asked him about 3 wants of mine, which had about a total book value around £650 to £700 for the 3. he said that if I wanted them out of his collection they were £500 each.

I disagreed with him, but Tim took his stance which was directly opposite to my valuation and NO DEAL was done, I still class him as a mate and will still buy records from him (price permitting).

So if TB is taking the same stance with Ian Dewhirst then there is one answer to Bobas situation. The other view is he has heard whats been going on and said right everything is £500 end of!

I suspect it may be the latter, as TB has always done me a good deal on records because he knows they go into my collection. If thats correct then I am pretty miffed because I would of prehaps got 3 good wants off Tim and he would of made the top price valuation based on books/guides.

SOUL = (S)ound (O)f (U)nity and (L)ove........not when records and money are concerned

Dave Halsall

TMIB

[Guest James Trouble]

I'd like to add that I think Tim Brown is very unfortunate to have got caught up in Dewhesit's con job. He's just been offered prices for records and he's either said yes or no. He knew nothing of Dewheist's methods or the profit he was leeching out of collectors.

If he is still carrying on using Dewheist's offers, and if there are any buyers who are still using his "service" then all fool them, they deserve each other.

I hope someone will inform the tax man about Ian Dewhirst extra income from all this.

Edited August 25, 2009 by James Trouble

[Ian Dewhirst]

So I was keeping quiet about all this, and I was pretty pissed already, but I got my record in the mail today and now I'm extremely pissed at Ian's total BS (which I'm sure he'll respond with more smooth talk). I was going to just keep quiet but I'm just posting my experience here, hopefully other people will avoid getting burned.

I sent Ian a priced want list of very obscure sweet soul records. They were all sweet soul with no northern interest, priced pretty fairly in my opinion. He came back with 3 of the records, saying that they all were priced too low for the seller and that he had no control over the prices and that the mystery seller all wanted 550 pounds for each of the 3 records. I felt that 550 pounds was way over the top for all 3 records but one of them (the major III -- what girl a girl on TOI) is a very rare Chicago record. I'm in Chicago, met two of the members and want it to record for them (the fact that they don't have it means nothing about the rarity, no Chicago groups own any of their records, even the most common ones), and want it to collect. I had offered $600 which I felt was fair and was way more than it would go for on ebay or any other auction, it's just an obscurity and there's no northern side.

I'm not rich but I feel it's a rare chance to get the record, and I can't really afford it right now but I went for it because when am I going to get a chance to get it again. So I go for it. I asked if I at least could do a paypal transfer and have him pay the shipping. I get an email back saying something to the effect of "the way it's going to work is that I'm going to do a bank transfer into Ian's account" which adds an extra $45 in fees for me. Anyways, I figured if the seller's being a hardass about it, fine, there's nothing I can do. When it's revealed that the seller is TIM BROWN, I'm pissed as hell, because THIS RECORD IS PRICED AT 75 POUNDS IN TIM BROWN'S NEW PRICE GUIDE. EVEN IF THAT IS A TOTAL BS PRICE, DID TIM BROWN REALLY COME BACK AND SAY THAT $600 WAS TOO LOW? HERE IS A PIC OF THE PRICE GUIDE:

This is all done in secret and who knows what Ian is telling Tim, I usually wouldn't believe a word that Trouble says (e.g. he obviously did not have 2 copies of "james lovejoy" in the back of his hotbox packed up while he was moving that he couldn't post because he was moving), I have no idea why Ian didn't play it a little smoother and just deny that the seller was Tim. AT LEAST I WOULDN'T BE PAYING $1000 TO A SELLER THAT HAD PUBLISHED A PRICE GUIDE (WHICH I HAPPENED TO HAVE BOUGHT DIRECTLY FROM HIM BY THE WAY) WHICH CONTAINED THE SAME RECORD LISTED FOR 75 POUNDS. Hey Ian, how much did you take off the top of that???? No commission, right???? At the LEAST you could have been smoother and run your game a little tighter and denied everything Trouble said AND EVERYONE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED YOU.

THEN, in the transaction, I asked several times for 1) the package to be sent signed for and 2) the package to be sent packed in a US-style mailer and not in a flimsy-UK style mailer. I have had AT LEAST 5 packages broken specifically because they were packed in a flimsy UK style mailer. Here are exact quotes from our PMs:

Me: "please make sure the record is shipped in a US-style mailer well padded, signed for, to..."

Ian: "No probs. Will confirm from this end as soon as money arrives, which I presume will be tomorrow or the day after. And don't worry about the packaging - I send out hundreds of packages every year and never had a breakage yet (I do Disgogs and E-Bay myself)."

Me: "Thanks, I have had several records packed in the thin UK-style thin mailers broken which is why I have am asking for the US -style mailers if you got one, even a used-one reversed. Thanks."

Ian: "Don't worry Boba, you'd need a sledgehammer to bust one of my packages (he said with justifiable pride LOL)......"

Anyways, I get the package today and 1) it is NOT sent signed for and 2) IT IS PACKED IN A FLIMSY STYLE UK MAILER. Here are pics so you can see how it is sent (note the lack of "signed for" on the front)

There was one filler pad on each side of the record, I could easily crack the package with much less than a sledgehammer and I have had better packed packages broken with less which is why I SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR IT TO BE NOT PACKED NOT IN A FLIMSY UK MAILER. I guess if you read the back and forth above he never specifically says he won't, but that's his smooth-talking I guess, don't trust a word he says. He did say "no probs" specifically in response to my request of it being sent signed for in a US mailer though.

There was never a word about condition of the record throughout the transaction, the record was in about VG+ condition and had slight mildew spotting on the label on both sides (I can scan it if people care), you'd think if I were paying $1000 for a record he would mention it?

All the stuff about having to pay a premium to get stuff out of Tim Brown's personal collection is also total BS, I'm a casual buyer off of his list, occasionally buying lower priced items, and I'm sure even I have an email I can dig up from a couple years ago saying he's selling his collection and to send a want list (I had sent a short want list back then and I remember buying a copy of first class on thereway for 25 pounds at the time).

Usually I wouldn't believe a word Trouble says but everything he said in the thread is 100% true. This had been an extremely bad experience. The worst part is that Ian is totally shaking you down mafioso style for every penny, yet responding with total BS about how he's such a great guy rooting for you, trying to fight for you and get you the best price, do you a favor, etc. Total sleaze. At least he could be straight up with it. I can't believe the total BS that went on. The only positive thing for me is that I paid way less than 2000 pounds for the precisions on hen-mar recently, I didn't know that anyone wanted the crappy northern side.

BUYER BEWARE.

Well I'm disappointed Boba. I did everything in good faith. You gave me a long list of records, Tim happened to have three of them in his collection, HE set the prices not me, I contacted you and you went ahead and ordered the item. Tim set the price of a £500 minimum for anything from his own collection, not me and priced this @ £550. I had no idea of what the book rate was and even if I had known I doubt that it would have made any difference as this was from Tim's collection and he'd already stated that he wasn't selling anything below the £500 level. What was not to understand?

The record was packed VERY securely with I believe 2 heavy cardboard stiffeners each side of the record. I have never, ever had a broken record sent out of well over 1000 transactions all over the world. All the stuff about paying a premium for stuff in Tim's collection is NOT bs! He puts a premium on the stuff in his collection and sets the prices OK? Plus he said it was pretty rare and he only had the one copy. If you don't believe me, then why don't you ring him and ask him yourself?

I will take this up with Tim and come back to you privately. If you want to send it back, then send it back and I'll offer a full refund but I think it's pretty unfair airing this publically. As it happens, someone else wasn't very keen on the condition of a record he bought but contacted me via PM and it's being sorted out without the attendant ballyhoo. Plenty of other people are very happy with the records they've bought.

A shame Boba. We had lengthy conversations via PM's and if you had any concerns it might have been nice to raise them with me first.

Ian D

[Stevie]

Well I'm disappointed Boba. I did everything in good faith.

The record was packed VERY securely with I believe 2 heavy cardboard stiffeners each side of the record. I have never, ever had a broken record sent out of well over 1000 transactions all over the world.

Ian D

So what? The guy specifically asked for a well packed US style mailer, and signed for delivery.

Not a big deal to provide but he didn't get either.

It's difficult to know who's right and wrong in a lot of what's been said on this and the previous thread, but trust is based on people doing what they say.

[Ezzie Brown]

i have no comment about rights or wrongs of others transactions....... but will say, i considered posting a comment regarding sales pitch used when this first was posted,then addition posts placed ..............just seemed like it was all too convoluted a process, [to be diplomatic ], for instance why did the principal seller want anonymity ???. and therefore i never consider ed sending a wants list, regardless of potential bargains . ...........regards ezzie

[Guest James Trouble]

Ian, I'm thinking of selling a rare record, how much will it cost me for you to promote it for me?

Now go away and don't pull any of these stunts again, or you know what I'm going to tell people about next...

[Kegsy]

Hey Boba,

Dewheist asks for wants with maximum price you will pay. He then goes to Tim Brown and gets his sale price. If your want price is more than the sale price Dewheist pockets the difference, pure profit no tax paid. I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Brown sold Boba's record for £75 and Dewheist pocketed the extra few hundred quid.

Ok Mr Clean whats your opionion on this.

Somebody posts a want in the wants section, he is them contacted by a seller and asked

how much he will pay, he says 100 quid for example. The seller then buys one from a dealer

in the states for 10 bucks and sells it for the 100 quid the buyer offered.

Is this immoral, a rip off or just one person more in the know then another.

Its human nature and you aint gonna stop that.

I dont know where you buy your records but I can assure you that

large profits have almost always been a feature of record dealing.

You obviously have no idea how some of the main UK record dealers

operate. Do you seriously think that John Manship or Tim Browm etc,no offence meant,

filled their warehouses buying records in one and two's if you do you are a fool.

They went to the states and bought records blind by the pallet load often

at one cent apiece, yes thats a million 45's for about ten grand, plus

transportation.Even selling records at a tenner each is a hell of a profit.

I know this because thats what the guy at Bradford Market did in the early

seventies, and thousands of rare soul titles came out of there, I would go so far

as to say it was by far the best source of new northern records at the time.

A few years ago I paid 5 bucks for a Bernie Williams Silver Demo and sold it for 1200 quid.

The buyer knew how much I paid but didnt complain, am I a shyster ???

Although I did once buy a Mars bars off Mr Dewhirst that turned out to

be a re-issue.

Kegsy

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hey Boba,

Sorry to hear about your experience. It's a terrible affair, but one I tried to (and hopefully) warned people about.

Dewheist pretended it was some secret hermit collector that no one knew about. A terrible, terrible lie.

Dewheist asks for wants with maximum price you will pay. He then goes to Tim Brown and gets his sale price. If your want price is more than the sale price Dewheist pockets the difference, pure profit no tax paid. I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Brown sold Boba's record for £75 and Dewheist pocketed the extra few hundred quid. I think Tim Brown needs to get on here and then Dewheist needs to refund the buyers he has conned with the profit he has taken out of them.

Dewheist used Soul-Source like a secret group of buyers, FACT Tim Brown did not know that Dewheist was useing Soul-Source to sell his records. FACT. Dewheist acted like he had secret buyers, not plastering it all over soul-source. The only reason Tim Brown knew about Dewheist's terribel behavior was when I told him what was going on. Dewheist has used the forum with contempt and disrespected all it's users. Surely if any profit for these sales should have gone to Mike for all the work he puts into the forum, not to some washed up, hypocritical, out of touch, greedy chancer?

I know for a fact that Dewheist got me bidding against my own bid with Tim Brown, but what makes the matter worse for me is that Tim doesn't even have the record and he told Dewheist to not be negotiating with anyone about it because he doesn't have it. Why did Dewheist carry it on? Is he drunk on the talk of money and rare records? It's crazy.

25-20=5 That's 25% profit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For doing what, exactly? And no Dewheist don't go smooth talking shite again, you have not told Tim Brown about all the money you have taken because the buyers all sent the money to you and you sent it onto Tim Brown.

Pure slimey opportunistic greed.

All the above is wrong, wrong, wrong and James T is making accusations which are actually libelous. James' so called 'facts' are from a private conversation he had with Tim Brown last week and I've just spent the last 20 minutes going through the various accusations and James' ridiculous statements with Tim. In an ideal world I wanted Tim to make a statement himself but as he pointed out the very reason why he wanted me to try and sell some of his records privately was because he does not get involved with forums for the very reasons we're seeing right now! And I don't blame him. It's also the reason why a lot of people, especially record dealers shy away from these sort of public debates as they're vindictive, time-consuming and just downright nasty at times.

To simplify the whole process because I'm sick of repeating myself here, if anyone wants to contact Tim directly and ask him any questions regarding these transactions then Tim will respond in person at raresoulvinyl@btconnect.com. He will confirm the prices he wanted directly with anyone who wants to ask him. He will also confirm that he knew I would be putting the opportunity on S.S. and that my commission is remarkably stable @ around the 5% mark which comes out of his price. Not that it's actually anyone's business of course. He will also deal directly with Boba about his concerns and the other person who wants to return a record as he knows them both and is more than happy to discuss the situation with them.

All the cases where people have bought records have been clear cut and above board. No skullduggery here I'm afraid. Every transaction which has been done to date is covered by a wealth of PM's discussing the deal with the agreement on price. Nobody's arms have been twisted and people had the option to say no without any problems at this end - there's been plenty of refusals and that's fine. If Boba didn't want the record he didn't have to take it. I've had two phone calls from people this morning who were nervous that they wouldn't be getting their records because of all this and had to assure them that they will.

As for me, I've had enough of all this. Any transactions which are currently going through will be completed and congratulations to everyone who got the records they wanted. It turned out to be a thankless task in the end because of the actions of a few people but c'est la vie I guess. And many thanks to everyone who has contacted me and either given me support or thanked me for the records they've received.

In the meantime I would ask if anyone has a problem to contact either me via PM or Tim via raresoulvinyl@btconnect.com.

And Mike, could you please keep an eye out for any potentially libelous stuff on here if poss? I've never had a problem with anyone I've sold records to in 35 years as many people on here will confirm and it pains me to have all this happen for what was essentially an opportunity for people to have a shot at some records they might not have found otherwise.

Best,

Ian D

[Guest James Trouble]

Ian, can you explain your reasoning behind ringing Kenny Burrell to offer him your services to promote the sale of Frank Wilson for the princely sum of £1000 the day it was first discussed on soul-source?

What did Kenny say to your generous offer?

Edited August 25, 2009 by James Trouble

[Mike]

And Mike, could you please keep an eye out for any potentially libelous stuff on here if poss? I've never had a problem with anyone I've sold records to in 35 years as many people on here will confirm and it pains me to have all this happen for what was essentially an opportunity for people to have a shot at some records they might not have found otherwise.

Best,

Ian D

if any member does have concerns about any post that they feel is "potentially libelous" and wish the site to take action

then use the "report post" feature

the mod team will then be aware of your concerns and can if felt needed take appropiate action

thanks

mike

[Mike]

closing this thread

the orignal poster has had an an reply to his concerns