Just What Is Crossover

[Guest]

awwwwwwwwww c'mon thought i would have had a real debate raging by now...........BTW a very typical crossover sounding tune that we all know, is Lyn Verando - Wash & Wear Love........albeit it pre dates the term by some years when first played on the scene.

Russ

Its already raged Russ,lets stick with now what it is now.....wash and wear love is a dancer anyway.

[Russ Vickers]

Its already raged Russ,lets stick with now what it is now.....wash and wear love is a dancer anyway.

Crossover is dance music isnt it.............altho different tempos are involved too..........

Russ

[Davenpete]

Not really when you re using words like Early to validate your point!

I'm sorry but b*ll*cks - this has nothing to do with crossover - I ONLY MENTIONED JOYCE SIMMS IN THE FIRST PLACE AS AN EXAMPLE OF TWO STEP AND ONLY MENTIONED THE OTHER TRACKS THAT YOU'RE ARGUING DATES OVER (THAT I DON'T ACTUALLY GIVE A TOSS ABOUT) AS ONES I FAR, FAR PREFERRED AT THE TIME (AND STILL LOVE AND OWN).

As it happens the 'early' is more to do with when I used to hear it, since I left Hull (where the modern do I used to go to that played JS was) in June, with the last Tower do I went to being about Easter - making it early 86 - frankly I don't know why I'm feeling I have to justify myself over this stupid detail about a record I think is crap.

Dave

Edited August 13, 2009 by DaveNPete

[Guest]

Crossover is dance music isnt it.............altho different tempos are involved too..........

Russ

No,better read the rest of the thread Russ lad.............but yes some of us dance to it i couldn't imagine you dancing to it though your body is well up-tempo

[paup-ine]

Is that newie newies or 6ts newies ?

I don't know anymore!! Anything to do with crossdressers?

P

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

I never get this but don't bring 2 step into it or else you will be thinking of dub step next lol.

how many people have these dance sub genres that crossover into soul

[Guest]

Get over it then....

Crossover / modern / two step / three step / nusoul / Y2K / inoutinoutshakeitallabout :

Who cares whatever it is called : enjoy the music whilst we can .

Malc Burton

[Little-stevie]

Crossover Soul is the term used by Northern & Modern Soul DJ's, back in the day, who needed a 'get out of jail free' card after burning thier bridges after stating either 'All 6ts is crap just gonna play Modern' or 'All Modern is crap just gonna play 6ts'................

However............ Crossover is the period in time between about '68 to the mid seventies....... ish, its the period when the rawer 6ts sound started to give way to more polished productions due to the advance in technology & recording techniques, but before disco. It can be both 6ts sounding & 7ts sounding..........its usually enjoyed & championed by soul afficanados with a more sophisticated ear & a greater appreciation of soul music . Those with a lesser appreciation of the finer points of SOUL due to thier ignorance tend to dismiss & look down upon those of us that enjoy Crossover Soul .

Russ

I think that post wins the debate Russ..

Sorted..

[John Reed]

As people have said, it was originally perceived as tunes from the late 60's early 70's which didn't fit into either the then "Northern" or "Modern" sound.

But if you look at the things people have posted into the Crossover thread in Refosoul, they are more akin to the old "Modern" soul, so maybe its definition should be expanded/changed. X-over, to me, now seems a better tag for old "Modern", rather than calling a tune recorded 35 years ago "Modern", It just doesn't seem right and we all know the trouble caused when people ask for a definition of "Modern".

[Guest clanger v2]

"CROSSOVER Late 60`s early 70`s mellow soulful mid-tempo, pre-disco era soul, dance 45"*

So it`s soul which crosses over eras but the basic sound and feel are the same.

So now maybe you`re thinking can you have R&B crossover? Late fifties to Early sixties?? Who knows? Maybe.

*Many thanks to John Manship for this definition

I have heard the term Crossunder relating to the R&B scene.

Is is well confused, innit!

[jocko]

As people have said, it was originally perceived as tunes from the late 60's early 70's which didn't fit into either the then "Northern" or "Modern" sound.

But if you look at the things people have posted into the Crossover thread in Refosoul, they are more akin to the old "Modern" soul, so maybe its definition should be expanded/changed. X-over, to me, now seems a better tag for old "Modern", rather than calling a tune recorded 35 years ago "Modern", It just doesn't seem right and we all know the trouble caused when people ask for a definition of "Modern".

I think that sums it up pretty well John, and probably sums up my thinking now, I probably think more about the kind of venues that play stuff like that now, Orwell, Monumental and I agree its mostly slower 60's or 70's, but I would say it very rarely moves away from soul music

which is why I like it,

And for the righteous ones who say they just like soul, do you mean all soul or just 60's????

John this reminds me I have a couple of crossover CD's that I never sent to you from swap, have various excuses but none stand

up in court of law, will send these off to you tomorrow.

[jocko]

Crossover ? Always thought it was the late 60s early 70s that didn't really fit into typical Northern or 70s/disco. As somebody mentioned it earlier, Player Play on is a perfect example...... TO ME !

However times change & IMO crossover has taken on a new meaning depending on who is DJing at the time. These days crossover often stands for extremely dreary ballad type music that gets played while people stand around drinking, talking to friends & getting restless while waiting for some Northern to be played so they can have a dance & shouldn't be heard unless sitting in a comfy armchair in your front room with a nice mug of hot chocolate

You have obviously never been to Soul Essence or the Orwell, (more than 10 miles past Watford which I suspect rules certain people out)

where lots of people dance to said music, which many of us dont find dreary in the slightest, particularly as it is generally played alongside music

of all tempos and all genres which in many ways is the true spirit of crossover.

Me, dreary ballad music this weekend, Lifeline following weekend both equally satisfying and both part of this rich tapestry I love which was the way for most until the tempo terrorists arrived, taking us back to 1974...........

Edited August 14, 2009 by jocko

[jocko]

And last thing, Steve Plumb has an excellent article which

probably is the classical definition, although as John says

it has shifted for many from this, but I think sums it up

First crossover record played

Buddy Ace - Pleasing You (Stafford)

And 2 of the best examples showing it has plenty balls when it

needs to

Chuck Overton - Is It Possible

Thomas East - Follow The Rainbow (possibly my favorite record

within the genre)

but just to confound things I have a 2009 recorded CD only track that I am going to

post on thread tonight I think fits perfectly.

Ok off now to do some work!

[binsy]

And last thing, Steve Plumb has an excellent article which

probably is the classical definition, although as John says

it has shifted for many from this, but I think sums it up

First crossover record played

Buddy Ace - Pleasing You (Stafford)

And 2 of the best examples showing it has plenty balls when it

needs to

Great tune Jock, I brought it with me to play at Monumental but forgot to play it

[Baz Atkinson]

When i started the thead in refo-soul ,the whole idea was to showcase some of them perfect late sixties early seventies tunes that epitomised what John and Jock have discussed earlier.The thread to me now sums up other words ie JUST BLOODY GOOD SEVENTIES SOUL IE SOUL MUSIC CUT IN THE SEVENTIES WITH MORE ACCOMPLISHED BACKING ARRANGING,MUSICAL SCORE AND PRODUCTION. Soul music simply exploded in the seventies due to millions of reasons,mostly commercial so generally with that explosion came along a far more accomplished bunch of records examples could be the incredible stuff coming from Sigma Studios or Invictus or Muscle Shoals ,Henry Stone -etc etc,the list is endless!! To me alot of the producers learned from the sixties pitfalls and simply produced better records,with far more soulful delivery.

Now that is not to say the sixties records did not have good arragement etc [more often that not most were produced on a pittance ,but still souded incredible]the appeal forgive me if im wrong for sixties stuff was the sheer rawness and expression of soul,in the seventies that expression was sightly more sophisticated and studio bosses had to drive up the value another notch.

Somone metioned seventies records sounding like sixties records well there is literally hundreds so far on the thread a good expample been roe-ta-tion on gerim etc,I think a good record is a good record regardless of our obsession to categorise -simple terms would be sixties soul-seventies soul-eighties soul etc,far to simple for us anoraks lol.

I really hope some who pass judgement on the seventies and other genres in the history of black american music ,visit some of the threads -take the gospel thread for instance theres a record on ebay at the mommet vastly sought after by the northern crowd and it is marketted as follows HOLY DISCIPLES 45 GOSPEL FUNK NORTHERN SOUL well bugger me why not call it the lot lol,the point been it is the genre obssessed British collecting public that have created the vacume and yes im as quilty as everyone else,the record in question is just a cracking soul record on a gospel based logo out of Texas [hundreds of incredible gospel records I would class as just good soul records-soul stirrerrs etc]/.

Hope this amswers your question Bearsey [hope your well mate] oh and for the knockers of crossover soul ,sweet and deep,funk,and gospel,theres thoushands more to come on the threads at least another 5000 from my collection so why not dip in and have an open mind -if the site represents a fresher aspect of soul collecting and gathering and sharing infomation in the 21st century perhaps open minds could go with this? Right back tothe beach lol]

BAZ A

[Epic]

Crossover is what Northern Soul fans listen to when they grow up (or old!!)

[Guest Bearsy]

Crossover - too slow for northern speedos, too fast for old style funk (JB etc.). It's the music of the late 60s and early 70s, that has a 60s feel but isn't that fast but still has a beat.

Tony drake "Suddenly" epitomises the sound for me. But then again Margie Joseph "One more chance" is also viewed as a crossover classic.

Two step is the forerunner to todays R&B sound, heavy bass line, almost a reggae feel to it, mostly made mid 70s to early / mid 80s. Try Arnold Blair "Trying to get next to you", or Keith Barrow "You know you want to be loved" for examples.

Mr Bear is that clear?

right ive got this far and tend to agree with most whats written and tunes posted but as its you Steve can i ask this question to you,

????Is crossover named cos it can be played in either a modern room or a northern room

cos me i think its about a certain sound of a tune which is typical of a lot of late 60s & early to mid 70s which seems to agree with what most if not all everyone is saying

over to you Steve

[John Reed]

Garland Green is a fine example of an artist who has records in all the soul genres

[Guest Bearsy]

When i started the thead in refo-soul ,the whole idea was to showcase some of them perfect late sixties early seventies tunes that epitomised what John and Jock have discussed earlier.The thread to me now sums up other words ie JUST BLOODY GOOD SEVENTIES SOUL IE SOUL MUSIC CUT IN THE SEVENTIES WITH MORE ACCOMPLISHED BACKING ARRANGING,MUSICAL SCORE AND PRODUCTION. Soul music simply exploded in the seventies due to millions of reasons,mostly commercial so generally with that explosion came along a far more accomplished bunch of records examples could be the incredible stuff coming from Sigma Studios or Invictus or Muscle Shoals ,Henry Stone -etc etc,the list is endless!! To me alot of the producers learned from the sixties pitfalls and simply produced better records,with far more soulful delivery.

Now that is not to say the sixties records did not have good arragement etc [more often that not most were produced on a pittance ,but still souded incredible]the appeal forgive me if im wrong for sixties stuff was the sheer rawness and expression of soul,in the seventies that expression was sightly more sophisticated and studio bosses had to drive up the value another notch.

Somone metioned seventies records sounding like sixties records well there is literally hundreds so far on the thread a good expample been roe-ta-tion on gerim etc,I think a good record is a good record regardless of our obsession to categorise -simple terms would be sixties soul-seventies soul-eighties soul etc,far to simple for us anoraks lol.

I really hope some who pass judgement on the seventies and other genres in the history of black american music ,visit some of the threads -take the gospel thread for instance theres a record on ebay at the mommet vastly sought after by the northern crowd and it is marketted as follows HOLY DISCIPLES 45 GOSPEL FUNK NORTHERN SOUL well bugger me why not call it the lot lol,the point been it is the genre obssessed British collecting public that have created the vacume and yes im as quilty as everyone else,the record in question is just a cracking soul record on a gospel based logo out of Texas [hundreds of incredible gospel records I would class as just good soul records-soul stirrerrs etc]/.

Hope this amswers your question Bearsey [hope your well mate] oh and for the knockers of crossover soul ,sweet and deep,funk,and gospel,theres thoushands more to come on the threads at least another 5000 from my collection so why not dip in and have an open mind -if the site represents a fresher aspect of soul collecting and gathering and sharing infomation in the 21st century perhaps open minds could go with this? Right back tothe beach lol]

BAZ A

Hi Baz, im very good thanks and hope you are to

the crossover thread with all them tunes your goodself and many others have posted up is one of the reasons i ask this question, i love that thread personaly and have heard loads of quality sounding tunes to my ear but after chatting to a modern soul afficeanardo (cant spell me) I was told that crossover is not a sound its a record that can be played in either a modern room or a northern room, thus the term "crossover" cos its crosses over into either room, but, many tunes i have heard and would class as crossover would not imho be suitable for a modern room, that is where my confussion started

anyway back to you sunlounger you

ps,

whats a dancer

[Guest Bearsy]

As people have said, it was originally perceived as tunes from the late 60's early 70's which didn't fit into either the then "Northern" or "Modern" sound.

But if you look at the things people have posted into the Crossover thread in Refosoul, they are more akin to the old "Modern" soul, so maybe its definition should be expanded/changed. X-over, to me, now seems a better tag for old "Modern", rather than calling a tune recorded 35 years ago "Modern", It just doesn't seem right and we all know the trouble caused when people ask for a definition of "Modern".

now im wondering what modern soul is John

[Guest Bearsy]

Crossover Soul is the term used by Northern & Modern Soul DJ's, back in the day, who needed a 'get out of jail free' card after burning thier bridges after stating either 'All 6ts is crap just gonna play Modern' or 'All Modern is crap just gonna play 6ts'................

However............ Crossover is the period in time between about '68 to the mid seventies....... ish, its the period when the rawer 6ts sound started to give way to more polished productions due to the advance in technology & recording techniques, but before disco. It can be both 6ts sounding & 7ts sounding..........its usually enjoyed & championed by soul afficanados with a more sophisticated ear & a greater appreciation of soul music . Those with a lesser appreciation of the finer points of SOUL due to thier ignorance tend to dismiss & look down upon those of us that enjoy Crossover Soul .

Russ

I will settle for that tag Russ unlike that Mr Greenhill who has who has a lesser appreciation of the finer points of Soul

only joking Dave who a fine ear

[Russ Vickers]

No,better read the rest of the thread Russ lad.............but yes some of us dance to it i couldn't imagine you dancing to it though your body is well up-tempo

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

Hi Baz, im very good thanks and hope you are to

the crossover thread with all them tunes your goodself and many others have posted up is one of the reasons i ask this question, i love that thread personaly and have heard loads of quality sounding tunes to my ear but after chatting to a modern soul afficeanardo (cant spell me) I was told that crossover is not a sound its a record that can be played in either a modern room or a northern room, thus the term "crossover" cos its crosses over into either room, but, many tunes i have heard and would class as crossover would not imho be suitable for a modern room, that is where my confussion started

anyway back to you sunlounger you

ps,

whats a dancer

I think who ever told you that is bloody daft & as a definition its bollocks, altho some crossover can be played in both rooms, that is deffo not why the term was coined ...........mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder who said that then.

Hope you are well mate.

Russ

[NEV]

And two step?

WTF is two step?

Doing the "two step" ,is'nt this the point where people stopped doing the tired old ,worn out ,dance routine which had to incorporate a kick ,a spin and a clap of the hands ,in favour of just moving in time with the music

I:e MOVING YOUR FEET ,ONE TWO...ONE TWO .

To be honest unless you only have one leg it's pretty impossible to do the "ONE STEP"

[earlvandykes6]

I Recall Controversy At The " Twisted wheel " in 1969 When First Playing " Garland Greene - Jealous Kind Of Fella  " U.K. M.C.A. - Soul Bag , It Was Considered Too Modern By Some ? , But It Was  Classed As " Crossover "  When Played At The  Highland Room( Blackpool ) Early seventies . 

[Mr Fred]

In my Opinion, Crossover is a recording that is not in a soul category i.e.Oldie, newie,modern and is in between, neither one or the other  hence the name crossover as its crossing  over between the two. However You can ask a 1000 soulies what is crossover and you'll get a 1000 different replies.

 

All the best Fred.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Mr Fred

[Girdwoodinc]

I know some who think it means crossing over from the main room to the back room and playing the same records