6 Million People Can't Be Wrong

[paup-ine]

I only ever read the Mr Potatohead column, and when that stooped it was bye bye...

Yes it was funny

P

[Paul-s]

Seconded.

If you don't like the magazine---------------don't buy it,

If you don't like Levine--------------ignore him,

If you want to insult people----------do it to their face,but don't insult people because they are different than you-----------you may be the one that is different!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think about it'

Steve

Cogito Ergo Sum.......and because of that, I feel its best to articulate when people talk nonsense or insult me (everything i say, i will say to the persons face. If only others reciprocated..keyboard warriors!). Just because someone challenges an unhealthy Monopoly, doesn't necessarily mean they 'hate' things or people. Also, if you dont like something, it isn't always the best course of action to ignore it. For instance, I didn't like Thatcher and decided that i would rather march against her, than ignore her. Your passive and i am active, its our free choice! Manifesto is not a reflection of the scene, in fact, its so far off its a joke! Armchair contributors mostly. Unless they are djing, of course!

As, i said, i dont see alot of the major contributors out and about, CONTRIBUTING to the scene as punters, only as business men (no women allowed to excert influence at a lads mag!), at each others events being paid to dj. They DO NOT explore the scene as a whole (all the venues) and surely, if you are going too pontificate with such arrogance about the 'scene', it should be done after gaining a wide pespective and not one based on promoting your mates business ventures. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevent, but at least you will see me out and about, checking out as many venues as i can, so that i can formulate an objective and informed opinion.

Im not a sofa soul boy!

peace!

Edited August 14, 2009 by paul-s

[viphitman]

Hmmm, you guys have individually quite strong opinions on sooooo may things Soul. A friend of mine was into emo (since 2000...so pretty much from the start) but really likes Northern Soul now. Is he strong enough for all this banter I wonder??? Do you have any tips on how he can build up his self esteem???

Edited August 14, 2009 by viphitman

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yes, i do know you...never taken you that seriously mate...Just another one of the illiterate SOPRANO gang who run the magazine. In fact this inarticulate response of yours highlights the point im making..Manifesto is a lads mag and you are certainly one of the 'lads'. You seem to forget that , unlike Levine, I have been 'ON' the scene for 34 years, so dont give me your big i am speech about dedication and contribution, because, like your attempts at literacy, it doesn't impress....

The contibutors dont make a Mag, its the editors, who manipulate and decide what goes and what stays in, who form its credibility. Really suprised, given your obvious intelligence..mmmmm, that you haven't realised that, especially as you regard yourself so highly in the world of publishing!

(i have answered this in a personal way, given you sadly lacking attempts at insulting me!) Keep on Creeping on with 'Monopolifesto'

Have we ever met? Maybe we have, so perhaps you could remind me when and where if poss please? Either way, I don't tend to cast aspersions on people who I've never met or don't know well, so I'm just curious why you seem to have it in for anyone who's been involved with Manifesto.

There is no 'gang'. Most of the contributors vehemently disagree with each other anyway, as anyone who's read Tim Brown, Soul Sam or Simon White's columns will know. I consider Mike Ritson and Tim Brown to be old friends, who I bump into on occasion and have a natter or a beer with. Likewise Soul Sam, Neil Rushton and Pete Haigh who I see occasionally at gigs - maybe a couple of times a year. Roy Burton, Bob Jones, Fish, Rob Moss, Sean Livesey and Sean Chapman I see maybe two or three times year and may have a casual natter with. I've known Steve Handbury for a few years now - generally from Prestatyn and a few other gigs and I see Simon White at a few London gigs and we chat. That's it.

No cosy 'gang'. Just a lot of long-term soul music enthusiasts doing what they enjoy. So no conspiracy over this end mate. What on earth has Manifesto done to you to make you so bitter............? Are you a rival publisher or something........?

Ian D

[Paul-s]

Have we ever met? Maybe we have, so perhaps you could remind me when and where if poss please? Either way, I don't tend to cast aspersions on people who I've never met or don't know well, so I'm just curious why you seem to have it in for anyone who's been involved with Manifesto.

There is no 'gang'. Most of the contributors vehemently disagree with each other anyway, as anyone who's read Tim Brown, Soul Sam or Simon White's columns will know. I consider Mike Ritson and Tim Brown to be old friends, who I bump into on occasion and have a natter or a beer with. Likewise Soul Sam, Neil Rushton and Pete Haigh who I see occasionally at gigs - maybe a couple of times a year. Roy Burton, Bob Jones, Fish, Rob Moss, Sean Livesey and Sean Chapman I see maybe two or three times year and may have a casual natter with. I've known Steve Handbury for a few years now - generally from Prestatyn and a few other gigs and I see Simon White at a few London gigs and we chat. That's it.

No cosy 'gang'. Just a lot of long-term soul music enthusiasts doing what they enjoy. So no conspiracy over this end mate. What on earth has Manifesto done to you to make you so bitter............? Are you a rival publisher or something........?

Ian D

Of all those named above, i only ever see SAM out and about (djing) and of course Sean Chapman. If you were listing people who were 'ON' the scene, then i would take the magazine seriously. To run a mag about the scene, it makes logical sense that you need to get out and explore it...not just your mates do's? Tim? When is he ever at a local event or a nighter hes not djing at? These guys should be travelling North, South, East and West, before forming opinions. Opinions that often appear based on advertising their events or records.

I have NO financial interests in the scene and i dont run anything...I would never attempt to 'run the scene', which is Manifestos basic aim and premise.

[Paul-s]

Bitter? No, but as i mentioned earlier, Mike Ritson and Be Cool issued me with a writ, trying to STOP the play and demanding ALL revenue, the script etc. Luckily we shoved it back right up their ----!They wanted to own the concept of Wigan Casino and wanted to stop anyone else 'contributing'

Nice guys eh?

[barney]

Cogito Ergo Sum.......and because of that, I feel its best to articulate when people talk nonsense or insult me (everything i say, i will say to the persons face. If only others reciprocated..keyboard warriors!). Just because someone challenges an unhealthy Monopoly, doesn't necessarily mean they 'hate' things or people. Also, if you dont like something, it isn't always the best course of action to ignore it. For instance, I didn't like Thatcher and decided that i would rather march against her, than ignore her. Your passive and i am active, its our free choice! Manifesto is not a reflection of the scene, in fact, its so far off its a joke! Armchair contributors mostly. Unless they are djing, of course!

As, i said, i dont see alot of the major contributors out and about, CONTRIBUTING to the scene as punters, only as business men (no women allowed to excert influence at a lads mag!), at each others events being paid to dj. They DO NOT explore the scene as a whole (all the venues) and surely, if you are going too pontificate with such arrogance about the 'scene', it should be done after gaining a wide pespective and not one based on promoting your mates business ventures. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevent, but at least you will see me out and about, checking out as many venues as i can, so that i can formulate an objective cand informed opinion.

Im not a sofa soul boy!

peace!

well fookin said mate

top banana coz these fookers do take themselves so seriously and with one or two notable exceptions contribute very little to todays soul scene

ktf barney

[Guest proudlove]

Cogito Ergo Sum.......and because of that, I feel its best to articulate when people talk nonsense or insult me (everything i say, i will say to the persons face. If only others reciprocated..keyboard warriors!). Just because someone challenges an unhealthy Monopoly, doesn't necessarily mean they 'hate' things or people. Also, if you dont like something, it isn't always the best course of action to ignore it. For instance, I didn't like Thatcher and decided that i would rather march against her, than ignore her. Your passive and i am active, its our free choice! Manifesto is not a reflection of the scene, in fact, its so far off its a joke! Armchair contributors mostly. Unless they are djing, of course!

As, i said, i dont see alot of the major contributors out and about, CONTRIBUTING to the scene as punters, only as business men (no women allowed to excert influence at a lads mag!), at each others events being paid to dj. They DO NOT explore the scene as a whole (all the venues) and surely, if you are going too pontificate with such arrogance about the 'scene', it should be done after gaining a wide pespective and not one based on promoting your mates business ventures. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevent, but at least you will see me out and about, checking out as many venues as i can, so that i can formulate an objective cand informed opinion.

Im not a sofa soul boy!

peace!

Pete-------I am far from passive,the most aggresive thing you could possibly do to Latrine is ignore him,ignored he is nothing,that is why he self publicises so hard.

As far as Manifesto is concerned there will always be a lot of people who would agree with you,I for one dont buy it and I would not be influenced one jot by the articles,personalities,etc It quite amuses me at times when I see a copy how seriously some people take themselves,though I think you will find that the contributors have a huge amount of knowlege and experience to share.

Incidentally a good friend of mine does most all nighters on the calender,and he often has a camera with him and submits the photos to manifesto,he contributes.

[Guest James Trouble]

For me, the really worrying thing is that 30 years after Levine became an irrelevance a magazine like Manifesto still allows him effective propaganda that not only enables him to stick to his guns, but it begins to grind away and turn otherwise good and just champions of the soul scene.

The only supporters he has left are those who fear accusations of treason against soul music because of the line of communication Manifesto has provided him with. As Levine swings his cleaver at anyone who does not support his creations and send him their £15 should we all stand back, playing pat a cake and drinking tea while his jingoism stabs everyone on the scene in the eye?

Manifesto should realise it's responsibility and understand that 6 million people can not be wrong.

Edited August 14, 2009 by James Trouble

[Guest]

These guys should be travelling North, South, East and West, before forming opinions. Opinions that often appear based on advertising their events or records.

I have NO financial interests in the scene and i dont run anything...I would never attempt to 'run the scene', which is Manifestos basic aim and premise.

A lot of them do because we see them out and about frequently and all over the country too, some of them

are certainly out and about at a variety of events every week. As Ian pointed out, These guys contribute

out of choice, they're not paid and not trained journo's.

Is this thread just a big attack on the mag for daring to allow Levine some space? or an attempt to

demonstrate to the editor that he should not do such a thing again?

Shame it's been done in the way it has, the debate about Manifesto could have brought out something positive.

Jayne.

[Guest Catfish]

Were in his post does it say you will take over the magazine, and promis to run it for 9+ years, I think you need to re-read

what he actualy said just like you didnt look at who the orig post was aimed at it didnt have your name on the heading or am i mistaken

Hi,

12.09am, 14/8. Not sure who else he could have aimed it at other than myself or possibly I.D.; we're now making arrangements off-list as it's a side-issue to the main topic of the thread.

Thanks

[Paul-s]

A lot of them do because we see them out and about frequently and all over the country too, some of them

are certainly out and about at a variety of events every week. As Ian pointed out, These guys contribute

out of choice, they're not paid and not trained journo's.

Is this thread just a big attack on the mag for daring to allow Levine some space? or an attempt to

demonstrate to the editor that he should not do such a thing again?

Shame it's been done in the way it has, the debate about Manifesto could have brought out something positive.

Jayne.

Thats coz u all go to the same do's! Im talking about trying the big and the small, the old and the new, the soul and the funk...ALL OF IT!

Nice to see you promoting the strong 'female' editorial content of the mag Jayne...and i agree, they are NOT trained journo's...that would require an objective opinion based on experience of whats out there, investigation and an ability to write without predjudice.

Manifesto is a bit like the Daily Star or Sunday Sport of soul mags....tacky photos of readers wives etc and a staunch belief that time doesn't move on....

[Guest]

Thats coz u all go to the same do's! Im talking about trying the big and the small, the old and the new, the soul and the funk...ALL OF IT!

Nice to see you promoting the strong 'female' editorial content of the mag Jayne...and i agree, they are NOT trained journo's...that would require an objective opinion based on experience of whats out there, investigation and an ability to write without predjudice.

Manifesto is a bit like the Daily Star or Sunday Sport of soul mags....tacky photos of readers wives etc and a staunch belief that time doesn't move on....

Noo Paul, I'm talking about events of all kinds & all genre's. I think most people generally on the scene go to

the same do's, we all have fav's but some of those contributors do make an effort to attend all sorts of nights and

not just when they're DJ'ing either.

The staunch belief that time doesn't move on is a huge proportion of the uk soul scene, which should be represented in the mag as cringeworthy as that aspect is to some. Lots of people go straight to the photo section, I've known people buy the mag just because they're in the pictures page, whether you like it or not, this does appeal to some of the audience.

I don't give a monkey's whether it has a strong female presence or not really as long as I enjoy reading, maybe

I should, I've never noticed but this is the kind of thing that makes for an interesting issue, it just gets mixed up with the other sh1te.

Jayne.

[Paul-s]

I could name lots of important soul venues (really influential in terms of feeding the big floors) that have never been attended by those running the mag and have certainly never had a mention....BECAUSE...of politics and commerce and the arrogant presumption that 'they 'know it all'.

Thats the point. For a magazine to be truly representational of the scene, you would have to remove politics and commerce in terms of the personal involvements of the editorial staff. For Tim, the soul scene is a business. If he has no vested interest in a particular club, he doesn't give a f---k about it and the same with Mike.

If they were into music, they would be out listening to it. I often think that they talk so much about music that they forget its a listening medium.

How about listening to the music instead of listening to them talking about the music and telling us what to listen too.?

I also think the fact that their are as many women on the scene as men, yet MANIFESTO seems to have no interest in their opinions, is a sad reflection of their 'lad' mentality....i know many women on the scene who have great knowledge of music and a far better grasp on the English language than these boys!

[Gert Mark]

I have always stayed out of any IL Vs threads, mainly cos I have always found them quite purile, still first time for everything, here goes.

The guys at Manifesto, the people who contribute to SS articles, record re-releasers/booters, tailor made releasers (like IL), the people who write or the people who do radio or podcast stuff, promoters and DJs, are all having a go at somthing they, and sometimes others, are exited by.

Manifesto isnt the Times, IL isnt Curtis Mayfield, TB isnt Berry Gordy, the fella who puts a do on in his local church hall isnt going to get to promote the next U2 tour, and the guys who DJ there arent gonna have radio 1 knocking on their door anytime soon. It baffles me how when someone gets off their harris and has a go at something they instantly (sometimes even pre-emtively e.g. Gingers book) get slagged for it. NO ONE IS GOING TO GET RICH FROM NORTHERN SOUL, all of these things are done for the love of it, so sometimes things dont work or turn out how they were intended, or relate to a cetain person, SO WHAT?

We are an underground scene, in our lives, it is a part of who we are, but in the great scheme of things its pretty small fry. Of course some people have very over inflated ego's about their place in Northern Soul lore, dont think for a minute that they are the only ones. But if thats what they want or need from our scene then its no skin off my nose, let them play the big un it aint going to hurt me, and if i get to go to a nighter out of it then even better.

I dont ever remember buying Manifesto, i may have done, I have never bought any of IL's productions, just not my thing, but Gos bless em all for giving it a go, cos if people didnt, we wouldnt have anywhere to go at the weekends, Interesting articles to read on the bog, or websites like this to pontificate about everything.

I have always made a point of thanking the promoters of events i go to (if i know who they are) cos their motivation has given me hopefully a really enjoyable evening and i recognise i dont have the time, discipline or get up and go to do it myself. I think the same applies here.

I dont plan on buying any of the mags or cds etc reffered to in this thread, but good on everyone concerned for doing it.

[Guest]

I also think the fact that their are as many women on the scene as men, yet MANIFESTO seems to have no interest in their opinions, is a sad reflection of their 'lad' mentality....i know many women on the scene who have great knowledge of music and a far better grasp on the English language than these boys!

Interesting point.

Though the lack of female recognition in the mag is sadly a very accurate reflection of the scene generally I think,

Male Dj's, male record dealers etc massively outnumber women Dj's, etc on the scene too and I can think of

several great women DJ's who don't the recognition they deserve but I'm onto

another issue completely here I think.

Jayne.

[Paul-s]

Interesting point.

Though the lack of female recognition in the mag is sadly a very accurate reflection of the scene generally I think,

Male Dj's, male record dealers etc massively outnumber women Dj's, etc on the scene too and I can think of

several great women DJ's who don't the recognition they deserve but I'm onto

another issue completely here I think.

Jayne.

Very true Jayne...anyway, have a good weekend.

[Guest soulmaguk]

If its not broken, don't fix it'

not so good

Herbert Hunter --- I Was Born To Love You brilliant

Edited August 14, 2009 by soulmaguk

[Guest Bearsy]

the world has spun on its axis 4,749,675 times since this subject first aired its ugly head

its like that shit film Groundhog day

someone please take the stylus of that fooking track cos its going to wear the needle out

anyway i have never read manifesto cos of all the negative stuff ive read about it, dont that tell a story in itself

[Baz Atkinson]

I think some very valid points have been mentioned here -one statement that really sticks for me is"nobody will ever get rich from northern soul"how so very wrong!!! Collectors are very savvy now but hence when alot of returnees came back the prices via lists and ebay were ludicrous a quick calculation of someone who had amassed tunes that would be categorised as big ticket items WOULD TELL YOU THAT MANY UK COLLECTORS OF RARE SOUL AT THAT TIME WERE SITING ON COLLECTIONS IN EXCESS OF 100.000 AT LEAST!! Hey presto out come cds for millionires only -what kind of elitist bollocks is that? Only millionares can afford these tunes? or many returnees who forked out and now realise that this as mentioned is a revolving scene based around trends and current tastes constantly evolving.

The progressive punter now does want fresh stuff and thus gospel -funk-r/b / crossover etc all come into a massive melting pot build around likeminded people visiting the most musically challening venues? I really feel that magazines like Manifesto dont reflect that trend and that by not doing so have missed the point competely ie a northern scene always since the wheel days based on progression of the music etc.

Some of the backscratching and arsekissing in some of the manifesto articles is a tad embarssing for any soul collector- i dont want pictures of people sitting [i want pictures of interesting soul records that i can track-listen to and buy].etc.

The whole Levine issue is a biggie and controversial I held him in high esteem untill a visit about 4 years ago when with likeminded collectors from the north east visited to view his 100.000 records,got some nice pieces not northern and did feel slightly bullied ,he uses his vast sales experience to push stuff on us and we buy stuff way over the book because w could not shake hs aura -i do feel hes made his mark but that was so long ago now!!

If punters and purists want an incedible informative read then buy theres that beat -brilliantly written,chokka full of updates re worldwide gigs,information on records to blow your mind and no whos who-just collectors that care and share a passion for rare and underplayed soul music.Perhaps as James mentions the the media of soul source and its power can propel the scene into a new century where the music moves on stands on it merit and is played indiscriminantly without a dj claiming it -the vast ownership issues that have plagued this scene since ad infinnitum have created the egos and the Baggage,lets move on and keep it fresh and if you want your nostalgia go to a northern soul do and get pissed on cheap beer. [oh and nowt wrong with that by the way ]just not mycup of tea.

BAZ A

Edited August 14, 2009 by baz atkinson

[Gert Mark]

I think some very valid points have been mentioned here -one statement that really sticks for me is"nobody will ever get rich from northern soul"how so very wrong!!! Collectors are very savvy now but hence when alot of returnees came back the prices via lists and ebay were ludicrous a quick calculation of someone who had amassed tunes that would be categorised as big ticket items WOULD TELL YOU THAT MANY UK COLLECTORS OF RARE SOUL AT THAT TIME WERE SITING ON COLLECTIONS IN EXCESS OF 100.000 AT LEAST!! Hey presto out come cds for millionires only -what kind of elitist bollocks is that? Only millionares can afford these tunes? or many returnees who forked out and now realise that this as mentioned is a revolving scene based around trends and current tastes constantly evolving.

Fair point, should have thought more before i wrote that, what i was trying to get at is most new events or products or owt to do with Northern soul is done for the hell of it, or for ego, not for (significant) financial gain.

Some of the backscratching and arsekissing in some of the manifesto articles is a tad embarssing for any soul collector- i dont want pictures of people sitting [i want pictures of interesting soul records that i can track-listen to and buy].etc.

I agree but do you begrudge that some people might enjoy that?

If punters and purists want an incedible informative read then buy theres that beat -brilliantly written,chokka full of updates re worldwide gigs,information on records to blow your mind and no whos who-just collectors that care and share a passion for rare and underplayed soul music.Perhaps as James mentions the the media of soul source and its power can propel the scene into a new century where the music moves on stands on it merit and is played iniscriminantly without a dj claiming it -the vast ownership isues that have plagued this scene since ad infinnitum have created the egos and the Baggage,lets move on and keep it fresh and if you want your nostalgia go to a northern soul do and get pissed on cheap beer. [oh and nowt wrong with that by the way ]just not mycup of tea.

I'll give it a look.

BAZ A

ps. sorry about how i have done this reply, bit of a technophobe.

[Jez Jones]

Maybe this is slightly off thread--but here goes. The literary content of Manifesto seems to be at the root of this. My question then --Is there a regular publication or periodical that really reflects the current 'scene' --warts and all.

taking note of Baz's recomendation of There's that beat (will give that a go)--are there any others that try and encapsulate Northern soul/rare soul whatever you wanna call it a la 2009.

I remember 1970 onwards Blues and Soul didn't 'get' what it was all about. Apart from the DG writings and the adverts(for records) --there was nothing that stood out in it that would be of interest to 'the scene' as it was then. Black Music came out and went all disco --again nothing solid to represent the scene at that time.

so is there anything current that anyone could recommend for 2009 scene?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Of all those named above, i only ever see SAM out and about (djing) and of course Sean Chapman. If you were listing people who were 'ON' the scene, then i would take the magazine seriously. To run a mag about the scene, it makes logical sense that you need to get out and explore it...not just your mates do's? Tim? When is he ever at a local event or a nighter hes not djing at? These guys should be travelling North, South, East and West, before forming opinions. Opinions that often appear based on advertising their events or records.

I have NO financial interests in the scene and i dont run anything...I would never attempt to 'run the scene', which is Manifestos basic aim and premise.

I think you have a twisted view of Manifesto Paul. As far as I know, no one who contributes to the mag has any illusions about 'running the scene'. The idea is laughable as there's so many different facets of the scene I don't think anyone would seriously imagine that they could control a scene which is essentially beyond control. If you really knew Tim Brown you'd know that he's as passionate about Northern Soul and Deep Soul as anyone else on the planet and has the collection to back it up. His other passion is Zoos and he's been on deadline to publish his first Zoo book this year, so that's why he's not been out and about so much.

And I honestly don't know what you mean by people not getting out and exploring it. I'm out and about all the time at numerous gigs and see loads of people! This year I've been to numerous gigs @ London, Chichester, Birmingham, Brighton, Prestatyn, Morcambe, Todmorden, Hinckley, Caister, Leeds, Wakefield with trips to Chertsey, Leeds, Manchester, Hull and Prestatyn coming up shortly. I think that covers North, South, East & West doesn't it?

I have a certain amount of sympathy with some of the opinions on this thread, for instance, I think that the magazine could broaden it's appeal for sure and more contributors would be nice but, hey, it's not my magazine so not my call. Other than that, I find it an enjoyable read and quite enjoy when it drops through the letter box, as I do with many magazines.

I think Manifesto's basic aim is to survive. It's lasted 15 years and 108 issues to date which surely should be applauded shouldn't it? I really think you have a seperate agenda based on a prior disagreement with Mike but that's really got little to do with anyone else.......

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Maybe this is slightly off thread--but here goes. The literary content of Manifesto seems to be at the root of this. My question then --Is there a regular publication or periodical that really reflects the current 'scene' --warts and all.

taking note of Baz's recomendation of There's that beat (will give that a go)--are there any others that try and encapsulate Northern soul/rare soul whatever you wanna call it a la 2009.

I remember 1970 onwards Blues and Soul didn't 'get' what it was all about. Apart from the DG writings and the adverts(for records) --there was nothing that stood out in it that would be of interest to 'the scene' as it was then. Black Music came out and went all disco --again nothing solid to represent the scene at that time.

so is there anything current that anyone could recommend for 2009 scene?

"In The Basement" is pretty good and covers a wide remit and the above mentioned "There's That Beat" is great as well. Publishing's not an easy business, so anyone who can put a decent magazine out regularly should be encouraged IMO......

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Manifesto is a bit like the Daily Star or Sunday Sport of soul mags....tacky photos of readers wives etc and a staunch belief that time doesn't move on....

The 'tacky photos' of readers wives etc, are in fact submitted by Manifesto readers themselves from around the world - numerous photos are sent in by the readers and contributors and there is no editorial policy on this at all. It's as democratic as possible. Why insult the readership?

Also if you were to re-read the entire Manifesto collection of back issues you'll find hundreds of records which have been reviewed over the years which are now the mainstay of the current scene. There was even a James Trouble article last year. Are we talking about the same mag here.....?

Ian D

[Baz Atkinson]

"In The Basement" is pretty good and covers a wide remit and the above mentioned "There's That Beat" is great as well. Publishing's not an easy business, so anyone who can put a decent magazine out regularly should be encouraged IMO......

Ian D

Hello Ian "theres that beat "has gone up a notch since that young lad from the north east BAZ A has joined apparently Pulitzer has been mentiond !!!

BAZ A

[Jez Jones]

"In The Basement" is pretty good and covers a wide remit and the above mentioned "There's That Beat" is great as well. Publishing's not an easy business, so anyone who can put a decent magazine out regularly should be encouraged IMO......

Ian D

Cheers Ian ,will give that a go also

[Ian Dewhirst]

Bitter? No, but as i mentioned earlier, Mike Ritson and Be Cool issued me with a writ, trying to STOP the play and demanding ALL revenue, the script etc. Luckily we shoved it back right up their ----!They wanted to own the concept of Wigan Casino and wanted to stop anyone else 'contributing'

Nice guys eh?

Well, there's two sides to every story Paul and since I don't know the circumstances I can't comment but I guess that does explain your attitude somewhat. I think it was more to do with them trying to protect their copyright in Dave Shaw's "Wigan" book wasn't it........?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

"In The Basement" is pretty good and covers a wide remit and the above mentioned "There's That Beat" is great as well. Publishing's not an easy business, so anyone who can put a decent magazine out regularly should be encouraged IMO......

Ian D

Hello Ian "theres that beat "has gone up a notch since that young lad from the north east BAZ A has joined apparently Pulitzer has been mentiond !!!

BAZ A

Damn. I guess that Manifesto "Sweet Soul From The North East" column by the award-winning Baz A is a bust then.....

I applaud anyone who gives up their time to write regular columns for Soul mags. I just read the damn things - I couldn't give a monkeys about politics!

Ian D

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

I think some very valid points have been mentioned here -one statement that really sticks for me is"nobody will ever get rich from northern soul"how so very wrong!!! Collectors are very savvy now but hence when alot of returnees came back the prices via lists and ebay were ludicrous a quick calculation of someone who had amassed tunes that would be categorised as big ticket items WOULD TELL YOU THAT MANY UK COLLECTORS OF RARE SOUL AT THAT TIME WERE SITING ON COLLECTIONS IN EXCESS OF 100.000 AT LEAST!! Hey presto out come cds for millionires only -what kind of elitist bollocks is that? Only millionares can afford these tunes? or many returnees who forked out and now realise that this as mentioned is a revolving scene based around trends and current tastes constantly evolving.

The progressive punter now does want fresh stuff and thus gospel -funk-r/b / crossover etc all come into a massive melting pot build around likeminded people visiting the most musically challening venues? I really feel that magazines like Manifesto dont reflect that trend and that by not doing so have missed the point competely ie a northern scene always since the wheel days based on progression of the music etc.

Some of the backscratching and arsekissing in some of the manifesto articles is a tad embarssing for any soul collector- i dont want pictures of people sitting [i want pictures of interesting soul records that i can track-listen to and buy].etc.

The whole Levine issue is a biggie and controversial I held him in high esteem untill a visit about 4 years ago when with likeminded collectors from the north east visited to view his 100.000 records,got some nice pieces not northern and did feel slightly bullied ,he uses his vast sales experience to push stuff on us and we buy stuff way over the book because w could not shake hs aura -i do feel hes made his mark but that was so long ago now!!

If punters and purists want an incedible informative read then buy theres that beat -brilliantly written,chokka full of updates re worldwide gigs,information on records to blow your mind and no whos who-just collectors that care and share a passion for rare and underplayed soul music.Perhaps as James mentions the the media of soul source and its power can propel the scene into a new century where the music moves on stands on it merit and is played indiscriminantly without a dj claiming it -the vast ownership issues that have plagued this scene since ad infinnitum have created the egos and the Baggage,lets move on and keep it fresh and if you want your nostalgia go to a northern soul do and get pissed on cheap beer. [oh and nowt wrong with that by the way ]just not mycup of tea.

BAZ A

Nice to get some sanity back into this thread. Okay there's a lot of axes to grind, but it's just bringing so much negative shit out it's unbelievable.

Seems that most of you have got valid points/ (gripes) to bring up, but let's do it a little more graciously and be kind to one another. After all we've got a great passion for the music, scene, records, or wherever you're coming from. Let's have some respect.

A great fan of Levine's pre-77? era. But even though most of you are not interested in the other bits, why should the passions be raised and hatred ensue towards our fellow soulies because we have disagreements concerning one person? All it's done is bring out other resentments that should be discussed elsewhere, or in a more reasonable manner.

The ability to see other people's points of view, even if you don't agree with them, helps.

It's easy to see where Paul S is coming from, but it's also easy to see where other people are coming from too.

Okay Manifesto is not everyone's cup of tea, but for some people it is. Is that any reason to crucify it? It paints a picture that some don't see through the same eyes, does that mean it is not a valid medium either?

Over the years brought most of the fanzines/ magazines/ newspapers since '75, a lot of them have been different. Some more hardcore than others, but they've all served a purpose.

Likewise do's. Got my own favourites, been to 100's of soul nights and niters up and down the country. Some my cup of tea others not. But what you can say is that in all of these endeavours, people are trying. Trying to portray their own individual vision of how the soul scene should be, why should we slaughter them for it? Okay there are certain aspects we can be critical of, but?

I'll leave it at that. Except just to say i have been critical of things over the years, but what i've done is got my arse into gear. (Rather than my mouth, except on odd occasions). And promoted soul nights, all-niters, and all dayers over the years. Along with writing, and compiling a fanzine.

Why? Because i wasn't happy with the way things were portrayed in print, or what was coming out of the speakers at some events. I've been slaughtered for far less than some of the things i sometimes read on these threads.

Martyn

[TOAD]

2 SENSIBLE POSTS

IF YOU DONT LIKE SOMETHING YOU CHANGE IT RATHER THAN MOAN AT THE SITUATION

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

Maybe this is slightly off thread--but here goes. The literary content of Manifesto seems to be at the root of this. My question then --Is there a regular publication or periodical that really reflects the current 'scene' --warts and all.

taking note of Baz's recomendation of There's that beat (will give that a go)--are there any others that try and encapsulate Northern soul/rare soul whatever you wanna call it a la 2009.

I remember 1970 onwards Blues and Soul didn't 'get' what it was all about. Apart from the DG writings and the adverts(for records) --there was nothing that stood out in it that would be of interest to 'the scene' as it was then. Black Music came out and went all disco --again nothing solid to represent the scene at that time.

so is there anything current that anyone could recommend for 2009 scene?

Yeah it's called 'Soul Renaissance' and you can get it from me. A proper hardcore rare soul fanzine. Had a chance to go glossy, not interested.

Martyn

[Mace]

Had a chance to go glossy, not interested.Martyn

Why not Martyn?

[Davetay]

Thats coz u all go to the same do's! Im talking about trying the big and the small, the old and the new, the soul and the funk...ALL OF IT!

Nice to see you promoting the strong 'female' editorial content of the mag Jayne...and i agree, they are NOT trained journo's...that would require an objective opinion based on experience of whats out there, investigation and an ability to write without predjudice.

Manifesto is a bit like the Daily Star or Sunday Sport of soul mags....tacky photos of readers wives etc and a staunch belief that time doesn't move on....

Paul if you think Manifesto is the Daily Star of soul mags, what would that make Togetherness mag than?

[Quinvy]

Yeah it's called 'Soul Renaissance' and you can get it from me. A proper hardcore rare soul fanzine. Had a chance to go glossy, not interested.

Martyn

Got any back issues Martin? I would particularly like to read the issue that had a write up about my allnighter.

[Dave Moore]

I have always stayed out of any IL Vs threads, mainly cos I have always found them quite purile, still first time for everything, here goes.

The guys at Manifesto, the people who contribute to SS articles, record re-releasers/booters, tailor made releasers (like IL), the people who write or the people who do radio or podcast stuff, promoters and DJs, are all having a go at somthing they, and sometimes others, are exited by.

Manifesto isnt the Times, IL isnt Curtis Mayfield, TB isnt Berry Gordy, the fella who puts a do on in his local church hall isnt going to get to promote the next U2 tour, and the guys who DJ there arent gonna have radio 1 knocking on their door anytime soon. It baffles me how when someone gets off their harris and has a go at something they instantly (sometimes even pre-emtively e.g. Gingers book) get slagged for it. NO ONE IS GOING TO GET RICH FROM NORTHERN SOUL, all of these things are done for the love of it, so sometimes things dont work or turn out how they were intended, or relate to a cetain person, SO WHAT?

We are an underground scene, in our lives, it is a part of who we are, but in the great scheme of things its pretty small fry. Of course some people have very over inflated ego's about their place in Northern Soul lore, dont think for a minute that they are the only ones. But if thats what they want or need from our scene then its no skin off my nose, let them play the big un it aint going to hurt me, and if i get to go to a nighter out of it then even better.

I dont ever remember buying Manifesto, i may have done, I have never bought any of IL's productions, just not my thing, but Gos bless em all for giving it a go, cos if people didnt, we wouldnt have anywhere to go at the weekends, Interesting articles to read on the bog, or websites like this to pontificate about everything.

I have always made a point of thanking the promoters of events i go to (if i know who they are) cos their motivation has given me hopefully a really enjoyable evening and i recognise i dont have the time, discipline or get up and go to do it myself. I think the same applies here.

I dont plan on buying any of the mags or cds etc reffered to in this thread, but good on everyone concerned for doing it.

What a refreshing post.

[Mark Bicknell]

I always find the smaller button mushroom far more tasty than the huge ones, good two for one offer in Asda at present for Cherry Bakwells but go to Tesco for the large four litre semi skimmed milk 30p cheaper than Asda.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Wally Francis]

I think it's time for you to start taking your medication again Mark.

[Guest soulmaguk]

Back on topic, and the release of Ian Levine's 'Northern Soul 2009' CD. Because 'Northern' (whatever that is) is generic and a bit like UNIX, it is a contribution of minds to create an operational system. So why dont we, that is everyone that has joined in this particular thread to add one MP3 to this post of the best 'Northern' (whatever that is) track they have heard this year, then that would be a true picture of what 'Northern Soul 2009' would be....for real.

[jocko]

What a refreshing post.

I am surprised at this Dave, would you not want to know if ITB wasn't reaching its audience or was not getting it right, (which I appreciate based on comments here, which I heartily agree with is not the the case). I appreciate much of this has gone beyond that, and its questionable whether this is Manifesto's target audience, but still there is some interesting feedback on here,

I appreciate negativity is a bit much on here but surely as I say constructive criticism is part and parcel of forums, if we all just say nothing then nobody knows anything is wrong. I am assuming its the way the criticism is being levelled and can't disagree with this.

I repeat again I think Manifesto has great promise for people who like more than Northern, in all honesty I wonder if it would be better off dumping the majority of Northern stuff and just being a soul mag, but I suspect that would lose a chunk of its readers and therefore its ability to cover the other stuff so its a bit of a viscous circles. I do hope Mike is reading this and goes away and thinks about it.

Must say however very troubled about that stuff about trying to stop the play and think that is something Mike should explain his reasons behind as in all honesty that is more likely to stop me subscribing than the content issue.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Must say however very troubled about that stuff about trying to stop the play and think that is something Mike should explain his reasons behind as in all honesty that is more likely to stop me subscribing than the content issue.

I spoke to Mike yesterday and specifically asked him if he'd ever had a run-in with a guy called Paul Sadot, (who by the way, I'm pretty sure that I have personally never ever met in person). I didn't put two & two together until something clicked in the thread that Paul's the guy who did "One Upon A Time In Wigan" and then I remembered the feistiness of some of the previous S.S. threads concerning the play and various parties who were involved at some stage or another. I remember reading a lot of remarks from Paul at the time which I thought got quite personal and not necessarily the most prudent or proper way to conduct personal matters on a public forum. It was almost like he was trying to breed controversy through accusations, personal insults and incendiary statements which is an interesting way to go through life I guess, but it's all kinda negative, negative, negative all the time which can't be that much fun. Must be a bitch in fact.

So I reckon Paul's one of life's fiery, fiesty typa guys who may go around upsetting people. I don't know since I've never met him, but in the space of this thread he's accused me of:-

1) Being a member of a 'Mafia' type organisation which was set up with the sole intention of monopolising Northern Soul music for monetary gain. (Hah!

try telling that to my wife that and she'll laugh you out my hilltop mansion with the roller outside!) At one point he likened the Manifesto bunch of

people to the award-winning HBO produced, "The Sopranos" but, like, a Soul version of the New Jersey Mafia family but helmed by notorious boss Mike

Ritson and aided and abetted by thugs like Soul Sam, Fish, Pete Haigh, Dr Bob Jones, Tim Brown and Keith Rylett. Unbelievable. This guy should write

a play .....

2) Being illiterate. First-ever time that's been levelled at me after hundreds of published articles, hundreds of sleeve-notes and a current book

commission.

3) Not travelling North, South, East & West to various Soul do's as I'm a 'Sofa Boy'. Patently untrue, as our mafia boss would cut our collective balls off

if we didn't get out and about to gigs. I go to loads of 'em, including James's gigs but the 'sofa' bit did un-nerve me a bit since I use it most nights.......

Now we also know that Paul has never taken me seriously and I don't impress him 'cos he told me that as well.

So can you imagine how much worse it would have been if the guy actually knew me!

Fascinating stuff. The double-whammy of Paul Sadot's generalisations and mafia fantasies about Manifesto together with James Trouble's forthright opinions and unbridled hatred of Ian Levine make this an interesting thread - these guys love keeping Mike on his toes don't they LOL......

I've met James and, yes, he's obviously an arrogant prick but we've all been young once and every scene needs it's characters IMO. Plus, that's what happens when you've been trained by Keb Darge.

Haven't met Paul yet but I'm obviously not in that much of hurry 'cos the deranged b*stard will probably stab me before I've even said "buongiorno....."

And Jocko - I had a natter with Mike about the legal nastiness and he then told me that there had been some concern @ Bee Cool when him and Stuart read the original manuscript of the play and thought it bore a striking resemblance to a book they had just published called "Casino" by Dave Shaw and thus voiced their concerns. It never went anywhere and I guess it was a case of lawyers giving ill-judged advice more than anything else. People protect their interests and given the level of vitriol above I have no doubt that Paul would be exactly the same if he thought someone had plagiarised his play.

However, Mike also told me that it all blew over and he's met Paul several times since and even shared a beer with him in Australia. He was kinda surprised that it was even mentioned...........

Anyway, there is no 'mafia' or cosy cabal @ Manifesto. The mag is very fluid as contributors come and go and then come back again. There's many contributors at the magazine who I've never even met or talked with. Most of them are just people who love Soul Music and spend a couple of days of their own time writing about it for free. If we're in the same place at the same time, we say hello and have a beer and a natter - pretty much the way it's always been for the last 40 years. Ask any of 'em and they'll tell you exactly the same thing. And anyone is welcome. Just submit a decent 2000 word article about a Northern Soul related topic and the chances are that it will be published.

Plus I read Martyn's hand-written letter to Manifesto castigating Tim Brown and if he can send me an e-mail with it by Monday so I don't have to type the bloody thing, then I'll make sure it gets printed in the next issue.

How's that for wimpy democracy ay? Tony Soprano will be turning in his grave.............

Ian D

Edited August 15, 2009 by Ian Dewhirst

[Mark Bicknell]

I think it's time for you to start taking your medication again Mark.

What you don't like button mushrooms? I thought everyone did.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest]

, and its questionable whether this is Manifesto's target audience, but still there is some interesting feedback on here,

Bingo!. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

good point.

Jayne.x

[Simon M]

I used to read Manifesto but not anymore ( its not too good for chinstrokers really) lol. However I'd say it would be good a read for people who don't have the Internet .

[Guest]

I spoke to Mike yesterday and specifically asked him if he'd ever had a run-in with a guy called Paul Sadot, (who by the way, I'm pretty sure that I have personally never ever met in person). I didn't put two & two together until something clicked in the thread that Paul's the guy who did "One Upon A Time In Wigan" and then I remembered the feistiness of some of the previous S.S. threads concerning the play and various parties who were involved at some stage or another. I remember reading a lot of remarks from Paul at the time which I thought got quite personal and not necessarily the most prudent or proper way to conduct personal matters on a public forum. It was almost like he was trying to breed controversy through accusations, personal insults and incendiary statements which is an interesting way to go through life I guess, but it's all kinda negative, negative, negative all the time which can't be that much fun. Must be a bitch in fact.

So I reckon Paul's one of life's fiery, fiesty typa guys who may go around upsetting people. I don't know since I've never met him, but in the space of this thread he's accused me of:-

1) Being a member of a 'Mafia' type organisation which was set up with the sole intention of monopolising Northern Soul music for monetary gain. (Hah!

try telling that to my wife that and she'll laugh you out my hilltop mansion with the roller outside!) At one point he likened the Manifesto bunch of

people to the award-winning HBO produced, "The Sopranos" but, like, a Soul version of the New Jersey Mafia family but helmed by notorious boss Mike

Ritson and aided and abetted by thugs like Soul Sam, Fish, Pete Haigh, Dr Bob Jones, Tim Brown and Keith Rylett. Unbelievable. This guy should write

a play .....

2) Being illiterate. First-ever time that's been levelled at me after hundreds of published articles, hundreds of sleeve-notes and a current book

commission.

3) Not travelling North, South, East & West to various Soul do's as I'm a 'Sofa Boy'. Patently untrue, as our mafia boss would cut our collective balls off

if we didn't get out and about to gigs. I go to loads of 'em, including James's gigs but the 'sofa' bit did un-nerve me a bit since I use it most nights.......

Now we also know that Paul has never taken me seriously and I don't impress him 'cos he told me that as well.

So can you imagine how much worse it would have been if the guy actually knew me!

Fascinating stuff. The double-whammy of Paul Sadot's generalisations and mafia fantasies about Manifesto together with James Trouble's forthright opinions and unbridled hatred of Ian Levine make this an interesting thread - these guys love keeping Mike on his toes don't they LOL......

I've met James and, yes, he's obviously an arrogant prick but we've all been young once and every scene needs it's characters IMO. Plus, that's what happens when you've been trained by Keb Darge.

Haven't met Paul yet but I'm obviously not in that much of hurry 'cos the deranged b*stard will probably stab me before I've even said "buongiorno....."

And Jocko - I had a natter with Mike about the legal nastiness and he then told me that there had been some concern @ Bee Cool when him and Stuart read the original manuscript of the play and thought it bore a striking resemblance to a book they had just published called "Casino" by Dave Shaw and thus voiced their concerns. It never went anywhere and I guess it was a case of lawyers giving ill-judged advice more than anything else. People protect their interests and given the level of vitriol above I have no doubt that Paul would be exactly the same if he thought someone had plagiarised his play.

However, Mike also told me that it all blew over and he's met Paul several times since and even shared a beer with him in Australia. He was kinda surprised that it was even mentioned...........

Anyway, there is no 'mafia' or cosy cabal @ Manifesto. The mag is very fluid as contributors come and go and then come back again. There's many contributors at the magazine who I've never even met or talked with. Most of them are just people who love Soul Music and spend a couple of days of their own time writing about it for free. If we're in the same place at the same time, we say hello and have a beer and a natter - pretty much the way it's always been for the last 40 years. Ask any of 'em and they'll tell you exactly the same thing. And anyone is welcome. Just submit a decent 2000 word article about a Northern Soul related topic and the chances are that it will be published.

Plus I read Martyn's hand-written letter to Manifesto castigating Tim Brown and if he can send me an e-mail with it by Monday so I don't have to type the bloody thing, then I'll make sure it gets printed in the next issue.

How's that for wimpy democracy ay? Tony Soprano will be turning in his grave.............

Ian D

Mike mafia thats so funny,mr Ritson he's one of the nice guy's....and i dont buy Manifesto cant afford it.

[Ted Massey]

I read 2 copies of Manifesto last night at Gloucester could'nt really see anything wrong with them, thou Sam and Tim do seem to have their own agendas thanks Sean the loan of them

fried mushrooms are better Mark

[Soulman]

I read 2 copies of Manifesto last night at Gloucester could'nt really see anything wrong with them, thou Sam and Tim do seem to have their own agendas thanks Sean the loan of them

fried mushrooms are better Mark

[Pete S]

What you don't like button mushrooms? I thought everyone did.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Cooking mushrooms smell like the devils sperm. I imagine. Mushrooms should be banned, along with peas.

Anyway, carry on.

[Soulman]

How dare anyone (Trouble) suggest that a certain individual (Levine) has no relevance to the scene. Anyone who has listened to, danced to and bought anything to do with soul music is relevant. I would not have the audacity to disrespect any individual otherwise no matter what status. Stop this nonsense now.

[KevH]

What you don't like button mushrooms? I thought everyone did.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

i grow them in my trousers.

On topic - Some folk on here want there arses kicking and there heads banging together,and wrists slapped.Followed by the cane/slipper.Then made to do P.E. in girls blue gym knickers cos they've forgot their own.Then double detention and homework.

Now,what was the question?