6 Million People Can't Be Wrong

[Guest Catfish]

Then the job is yours! Contact me for details. PM for me for a star if necessary. Job is yours but you must stick by it as I have done for the last 9 + years. Please confiirm that you will give it 100 percent commitment. Please also confirm that you have contact details for the future unterviews. Whatv is said subsequently is down to you.. I relenquish any responsiblility to the magazine after the September issue.

Haha, taking over the magazine entirely and promising to run it for 9+ years, plus having future contacts, is a little different from what was originally cited! (But I'm sure I could obtain contacts, if I put my mind to it.) I've never produced a whole magazine and didn't claim I could. I have , however, just been planning how to go about my first interview, whilst in the bath. Will PM you. Thank you. I need a new challenge in my life .

M

[Ian Dewhirst]

I know they've probably tried to contact it through various avenues in the past, and got no joy. But with the inclusion of Ian D on the staff, at least give it a chance?

Martyn

Gotta correct you there Martyn - I'm not on the staff because there isn't any staff, nor a realistic budget for one. I've been helping Mike out 'cos I'm down the road and I've know him 36 years and he's been a very, very good mate to me. So I try and return the many favours he's done for me over the years and that's the main level of my involvement.

So Quid Pro Quo then.

Res Ipsa Loquitur......

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Haha, taking over the magazine entirely and promising to run it for 9+ years, plus having future contacts, is a little different from what was originally cited! (But I'm sure I could obtain contacts, if I put my mind to it.) I've never produced a whole magazine and didn't claim I could. I have , however, just been planning how to go about my first interview, whilst in the bath. Will PM you. Thank you. I need a new challenge in my life .

M

LOL, challenge No.1 is to persuade Mike to let you actually edit!

Welcome aboard Catfish. I hope you get what you wish for! I'll do an induction for you if you like.....

Look at that. James Trouble just got us a new contributor with professional editing skills! Well done mate!

Ian D

[Alison H]

That's an awful post Gasher. It offended me & I dont even write for the mag or put my own time & effort in to produce it but I s'pose you're entitled to your opinion (strange as it is) .

If people dont like Manifesto (I personally do - despite a little fall out I had with them in the past) then simply don't buy it, don't read it or in the case of Gasher - don't wipe your @rse on it !

There are PLENTY of people out there who still & will always support the magazine so please keep at it guys.

ATB

Alison x

[Guest]

Drew, if you have an opinion on Manifesto or on the biased reviews that it has given to Levine World PLC then please contribute.

However, if you have a problem with language used or a members conduct please post something in member feedback section, don't do it off topic on this thread.

Thanks

James

Oh right...

You can play with your big boy 'bum licking' stuff regarding somebody's sexuality and then when somebody pulls you up for in appropriate language/conduct, you refer them off thread?

No matey, there are two stages of a complaint in most walks of life. First you ask the person responsible to refrain from offensive, outdated and downright bloody childish language/conduct, then if they persist you take it further.

So how about you write your pieces without constant referrals to bum lickers or any other sexual/racial/social insults?

When you've been listening to the same old tired LEVINE dramas for thirty five years, it gets bloody boring mate. There simply is nothing new here, although I think the aroma of an obsession is emanating from certain corners...

[Guest James Trouble]

Oh right...

You can play with your big boy 'bum licking' stuff regarding somebody's sexuality and then when somebody pulls you up for in appropriate language/conduct, you refer them off thread?

No matey, there are two stages of a complaint in most walks of life. First you ask the person responsible to refrain from offensive, outdated and downright bloody childish language/conduct, then if they persist you take it further.

So how about you write your pieces without constant referrals to bum lickers or any other sexual/racial/social insults?

What's your name? Who are you? Calling me a racist and saying I'm making sexual and social insults.

Can a moderator sort this crap out, please and tell me who this joker is?

Edited August 13, 2009 by James Trouble

[Mike]

here we go again

people taking the p*** out of the reporting post feature

members who think calling someone a arselicker is some sort of homophopic slur

threads gone to ratsh*t

will close it later if this sort of thing carries on

[Mike]

here we go again

people taking the p*** out of the reporting post feature

members who think calling someone a arselicker is some sort of homophopic slur

threads gone to ratsh*t

will close it later if this sort of thing carries on

[Guest James Trouble]

Sorry Steve, that is completely inaccurate. Ian Levine paid no attention to the Northern scene for years, and only returned, in much the same way he returned to SS, when he had something to sell. Nothing essentially wrong in that, but please don't say he has always been committed to the scene when he patently hasn't

That's a fair point, Dave. Unless of course someone can come up with something Mr Levine has done since the mid 1970s on the scene that has not been divisive and caused civil war which should allow him and his cronies to have free and unchecked reign in a magazine to print lies and untruths about records and the scene?

[Dave Rimmer]

That's a fair point, Dave. Unless of course someone can come up with something Mr Levine has done since the mid 1970s on the scene that has not been divisive and caused civil war which should allow him and his cronies to have free and unchecked reign in a magazine to print lies and untruths about records and the scene?

You're twisting what I said there James . However, several of his early Motorcity recordings (And whatever the label was before Motorcity) were accepted onto the scene without any hassle whatsoever, but of course you aren't old enough to remember those days are you James

[jocko]

Hi jocko,

I take on board your comments. Yes, I visit this site on occasions. I;m not the worlds biggest fan of Internet forums but they serve a purpose. They may give me an update as to what is going on in the big wide world of northern soul, they may give me contacts. What they ultimately give me is a negativity towards the scene that we all love. Why is it that the UK in general has to pull down something that is positive.

I agree about forums sometimes coming over negative, but the other side of that is they allow debate that otherwise may not be heard. Debate isnt and shouldnt only be about positivity, when used to highlight negative things and debated properly, they are great mediums, and it is generally the quality of the debate that is the problem with forums as far as I can see. I appreciate direct criticism is hard to take but when in the public eye I am afaid this is the risk you take, I did think about not using your name directly but I felt otherwise it just looked like me moaning. The scene isnt all positive in my eyes at all, 95% is piss poor and below the standard I want from my Northern scene and having spent a large chunk of the last 30 years being around it I think I am allowed an opinion.

The magazine itself is a positive input to the scene, even if you dont agree with the content. Please respond via a letter or an article.

I think the magazine could be a far more positive input to the scene than it is to be honest, hence my comments. I think the Northern stuff in is a trifle embarrassing to be honest, it generally covers a part of the scene I am not really interested in. It very rarely covers anything to do with the progressive side, apart from Sam, and him and Tims squabbling has now just got boring, I dont agree with all of Paul Ss views but I think most can see where he is coming from with the jobs for the boys quotes.

But to be honest I am not that concerned with that side, the one thing I like about the magazine, and probably the reason you are not going to get much positivity from Northern only people on here, is the coverage it gives to new artists. I think this is its strength as this is where it can bring new soul to a wider audience and make a difference to the artists, by looking at new released stuff new also the new CDs, the coverage of which is woefully short. If you read my initial response I actually say its a positive resource.

I have sent Mike 2 emails about the magazine, one about one of your interviews where I felt you sold the artist short and one about the lack of coverage of new release CDs. Neither were answered, I also sent numerous emails about back issues and subs which were all ignored, my subs were only sorted out when Ian D gave details of an outside company. And I think that is a key point here, I am presenting my points as a subscriber which surely allows me to do so, and am doing so to stop me and many others I suspect, not subscribing in future.

Why take issue with Levine's input, he alone has a vision where he would like to see the scene going, it may be personal but is self funded and as such, he puts his business, home and future at risk. This is a man who has been, is and will always be committed to the scene. If people don't share his views, then so be it although he may attract a needed new audience to keep the scene alive, something much needed within any underground scene. Every so often an undergrtound scene goes overground, generating new interest. When the fashion side of things subsides, a few devotees are left and become part of the underground scene, prologing the longivity of said scene, whether it be northern, funk soul Motown or Rock and Roll.

This is just bollocks; I would say I was a pretty regular attendee on the Northern scene from 1978 to 1995, where was he then, although I suppose you could say that about lots of people. If you truly think his CD is the future of the scene then yes you should give up, you just confirm my view we come from scenes as far apart as I am from the Rock and Roll scene you quote.

Also I didnt take issue with Levines input, I took issue with the magazine providing masses of free advertising, with what looked like no editorial control, to his latest product , which I think was Jamess original point. As usual people keep ignoring the point and argue their own points. Its this weakening of the magazine standards that I think is putting its existence in trouble, and I am probably one of the more likely on here to actually buy the CD but wont because of Levines recent behaviour, which everyone seems to be ignoring again, as evidenced by Jaynes response.

What concerns me, on a personal level is your assault on the content and spelling of the interviews. I consider myself articulate but please correct me if I am wrong. Spelling mistakes do get through the net. I am not a typist although I do check everything before submission. I'm sure there are spelling mistake in this text, I'll let you pick them out. I have a catalogue of contavts for interviews and, politely put this to you. I'll let you have phone numbers of artists as yet to be interviewed. Can you spare at least an hour per interview? Can you record said interveiw and transcribe it to fit in with magazine deadlines, some of which may be very tight. Bearing in mind the short notice, can you get together the notes you need for said interview, bearing in mind it may be someone you know nothing about. Most of all, are you prepared to do research, pay for and conduct the interview, listen to and tyoe up after much rewinding and editing, said interview. If your answer is yes, the please step in and take my place. I have a day job. I have a radio show which I put together, all of which take time. Seriously, if you can take this on and guarantee that you will get copy in on time and of relevence to the issue, then please step in. I have been writing for the magazine for a long time now and would be happy to hand over the cap. Do you want to wear that cap?

I actually didnt say anything about the spelling etc of the interviews, I made a general comment about the quality within the magazine, I do not hold you responsible for that at all, this was a comment on the standards within the magazine generally, I was suggesting they get a proof reader, so I think you are taking that too personally. I dont expect perfection, in many ways its the flawed bits that are interesting, however spelling and grammar in a magazine is essential to me and should be the responsibility of the editor, surely in todays technologically driven world its not that difficult to get right.

I was however commenting on the quality of the interviews, as I do think these have gradually got poorer, and in all honesty it often comes over as if you have not done enough research and therefore the conversations can come over as quite lightweight.

I appreciate your comments on time above, I wasnt sure if you did this professionally and if not I appreciate I am being harsh, but the other side of this is this is music and artists I love, you are getting an opportunity most would give their right arm for, I think they deserve more respect. As for me doing it, I would love to, it has been one of my dreams for many years as many people will attest to, but here is the rub, I know I probably dont have time, and probably not the skills either, so therefore I dont as I do not feel I could do the job it deserves. Maybe something you need to consider if you really no longer have the appetite.

I really do take my hat off to you doing this as amateur and fitting in the job as well, I would be sorrier to see you stop than I would to continue but surely you can see that objective criticism I am giving is good for you and can only help you improve, assuming you want to.

And I suppose this brings us back to the lads club criticism of the mag, forums are great places for picking up knowledge when required, a simple request on here, or probably EMS, would probably give you all the research you need for most artists within minutes, maybe if you did use that and were more visible people wouldnt feel the mag is such a closed shop

Just to prove I am not just picking on you, I would also say I am slightly disappointed in Sean Liveseys new column. I would hope Mr Livesey, given his training, would expect some feedback, but although I think his column shows promise at moment it has too little direction and is in danger of just replicating Sean Chapmans column for the modern scene. I am sure Sean L could go much more in depth (as could Sean C but in all honesty I very rarely read his column now) but as he is new I appreciate he is probably finding his feet. Surely pointing this out now is not insulting him, I would hope as a journalist he would see it as something to consider. If all journalists threw their dummy out of the pram every time somebody disagreed with them we would be crunching our way around Fleet Street!

And to prove some positive things, I like Fishs column, fairly unique in its coverage and I buy something every month because of that, I like Sams record reviews, often flawed, but hugely enthusiastic and always has me looking for sound clips. And Ian Ds recent articles have been refreshing in that they have been on something different, maybe Ian could serialise his book in the mag!

My comments really are made with the interest of the magazine, I love printed words over the internet any day and would love nothing more than to see this magazine prosper as it is unique in the market place, I suspect SS is not its target audience and maybe that is another thing that needs to be done, is some marketing, I think you would be surprised that there are as many people who want to help as there are to see it flounder.

The fact of the matter is that it's not easy to to get a magazine out 10 months a year with amateurs, 'cos that's what we are for the most part. I think I'm correct in saying that all contributors contribute their articles for free and, whether you like them or not, a substantial body of work has built up over the last 15 years. I take your point about interviews as well, in that you very seldom get the artist for a decent session under perfect circumstances.

However, if anyone would like to have a crack @ contributing, then I'll personally make sure that any submitted articles will get to Mike Ritson for consideration. He calls the shots as I said before.

In the meantime, if anyone can keep a magazine going for 15 years under such challenging circumstances then I'd say good luck to 'em. Have a crack. It ain't that easy........plus I think you'll find that over the years plenty of people have received coverage so I guess it all averages out in the end.........

PS I can't work this system out! How do you post an excel file in a post?????

Ian I totally respect this, but I suppose the point I am making is if it becomes too amateurish it wont survive, harsh but true. I appreciate there have been difficult times for mag in recent years but I spoke before with you about the complete lack of response to any emails, which I know you have sorted on many occasions, but things like this just I think take away all the good points,

In all honesty I assumed Mike made a living out of it which is why I have been a little harsh, if he is doing it as amateur then yes, hats off, I think a monthly magazine has been beyond people with far greater resources than this so that in itself is a great achievement.

Maybe it is time to widen the net for contributors, as I say the coverage of CDs released, new and old material, is really quite poor, other than Fishs column, but some of the bigger stuff could do with full reviews for me as I assume Mike gets the products.

I am sure there would be a lot of people who buy the stuff happy to write about it, it really is a fantastic tool to promote artists product, both old and new which at the end of the day, while really being of little interest to many on here, is one of the few ways we can actually give back to the people who have given us so much.

And more to the point I am still willing to buy some back issues if you can sort it out for me......

Whilst people can pull down Manifesto or any other magazine/ enterprise they like, why don't they have a go? It seems the magazine is going through some longstanding problems, but why don't people give it a chance to address these problems before they slag it off?

I know they've probably tried to contact it through various avenues in the past, and got no joy. But with the inclusion of Ian D on the staff, at least give it a chance?

Being a magazine editor/ compiler myself of 13 years, i've had various problems of one sort or another. So can sympathise to a certain degree.

What do the critics want of a magazine though?

A bit of self publicity here. If they want record reviews, no bullshit articles, and a traditional A4 size grassroots fanzine. Why don't many of them buy Soul Renaissance? Cause i certainly don't get much business off Soul Source.

Martyn

You answer your own questions on here Martin, you cant address the problems if there is no medium to communicate, hence using this forum.

And as for SR not selling on here, not sure I have ever seen it advertised, I have never seen any issues of it to be honest, and as long as you do not have any quotes in it saying that the 80s were all oldies, as Sam attributed to you in most recent Manifesto, I would take a copy of each back issue you have. PM me.

Edited August 13, 2009 by jocko

[KevH]

Haha, taking over the magazine entirely and promising to run it for 9+ years, plus having future contacts, is a little different from what was originally cited! (But I'm sure I could obtain contacts, if I put my mind to it.) I've never produced a whole magazine and didn't claim I could. I have , however, just been planning how to go about my first interview, whilst in the bath. Will PM you. Thank you. I need a new challenge in my life .

M

I think you could do it Catfish!!.Just one thing.Going to an interview in the bath may be tricky,and could well prove a distraction for the interviewer.

Editing and taking over the mag whilst in the bath - no problem for you. .

[Guest proudlove]

Do you know all the contributors then Paul? 'Cos you sure as shit don't know me, so I have no idea why you'd want to tar everybody with the same brush. You're so far wide of the mark it's laughable. Are you saying that Keith Rylatt, Rob Moss, Soul Sam and the literally hundreds of other contributors over the last 15 years 'have never represented the scene'?

Tosh! You must have an axe to grind with someone but don't generalise about some people who have given their whole lives to Northern Soul because that just makes you look like a prat.

Ian D

Just to put my happeny worth in--the humourous stories are written by Les and Brenda Rushton who have been around since God was a lad,and I wrote the Martyn Ellis tribute---------so as Ian says,do not tar everybody with the same brush,and no I dont subscribe to Manifesto.

Steve.

[macca]

If one points the finger at Ian Levine for being divisive and encouraging civil war in the mid 70's,

then one must also point the finger at Colin Curtis, who still commands enormous respect on this scene,

as they were pretty much a double act. They chose what they considered to be the forward path, in spite of the

carping from 60's enthusiasts. A lot of people at the time referred to this new music as Funk, if my memory serves me well,

venues had Funk rooms, not Modern rooms. Divisive? It largely depends on what side of the fence you sat.

[Pete S]

Oh right...

You can play with your big boy 'bum licking' stuff regarding somebody's sexuality and then when somebody pulls you up for in appropriate language/conduct, you refer them off thread?

I can honestlt say I never read anything into that comment and it certainly didn't seem to have been made as a snide sexual reference. It's only since you pointed it out.

[KevH]

If one points the finger at Ian Levine for being divisive and encouraging civil war in the mid 70's,

then one must also point the finger at Colin Curtis, who still commands enormous respect on this scene,

as they were pretty much a double act. They chose what they considered to be the forward path, in spite of the

carping from 60's enthusiasts. A lot of people at the time referred to this new music as Funk, if my memory serves me well,

venues had Funk rooms, not Modern rooms. Divisive? It largely depends on what side of the fence you sat.

Not really Macca,dont think CC has been so publicly opinionated or produced records, like IL.

[Guest]

'Its the same old song....'

Having read this three times, I am a little baffled. What is the point of it? I am not picking up a sword on behalf of IAN LEVINE but this is rather dramatic isn't it? Come on for gods sake, LEVINE has been around for decades and the shape of his promotional machine and championing of his own releases has not altered since the 70's. Anybody who remembers the original advent of his productions knows that full well. So he brags up his own stuff, so what? Nobody is forced to buy it and in fact, reactions like this are ten times more likely to re-inforce his determination, but for some reason you dont seem to be able to realise that...

So what's new?

The bottom line on IAN LEVINE is the same as it always has been...He was responsible for bringing a shitload of great records to the scene and that is his major contribution. If you prefer, all the other stuff can be viewed as a sideshow. Whether you like it or not, you or any other contemporary DJ is extremely unlikely to come anywhere near unearthing a trove of sounds to match the quality of LEVINE'S original contributions. As such, why not just acknowledge that and take all this with a pinch of salt?

Surely you do not believe that there are any lifelong serious Soul fans out there who are going to be convinced by all this - unless they share his perspectives already that is....And if they do so, that is their democratic right. IAN LEVINE has been right about some things and wrong about a whole lot more but he has a right to his viewpoint, the same as the rest of us.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Don't just drink it.

Good post Chorleysoul,

One far shorter and less dramatic sentance would have sufficed and would have felt less like some anti-Manifesto / anti levine propaganda.

which I object to just as strongly as the top starter objects to the article he read.

Jayne.

[Guest]

I have not been around on the scene for quite a while but I find it hard to believe that Mr Levine is still tolerated. I have never in my experience spoken to anyone who has a good word to say about him so I find it quite remarkable that he still seems to exert so much influence.

[Guest Matt Male]

If one points the finger at Ian Levine for being divisive and encouraging civil war in the mid 70's,

then one must also point the finger at Colin Curtis, who still commands enormous respect on this scene,

as they were pretty much a double act. They chose what they considered to be the forward path, in spite of the

carping from 60's enthusiasts. A lot of people at the time referred to this new music as Funk, if my memory serves me well,

venues had Funk rooms, not Modern rooms. Divisive? It largely depends on what side of the fence you sat.

I don't think there's a single person now, in retrospect (even James) who would disagree that in the end the path taken by the Mecca in playing more upfront, crossover and modern sounds proved the right way to go. At the time it was controversial but time has shown that Ian and Colin were right to take the scene in a new direction (and i love my 60s). I think most people's problems with Ian seem to stem from his re-emmergence in the late 90s (i was at Stoke when he turned up in the record bar much to the astonishment of Butch and Tim etc... and started lifting piles of records out of boxes and passing them to an aide before buying blind. Amazing behaviour.) and the debacle around The Rocket and Crossfire in 2002 and his behaviour on ANS as the saviour of northern soul.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Matt Male

[Guest Paul]

If James Trouble had his very own forum to express his personal hatred of Ian Levine, he'd have no need to hijack other threads - such as this one which was quite interesting until I almost forgot what it was about for a moment.

Editorial control, that's what's important.

Paul Mooney

[Guest Paul]

I have not been around on the scene for quite a while but I find it hard to believe that Mr Levine is still tolerated. I have never in my experience spoken to anyone who has a good word to say about him so I find it quite remarkable that he still seems to exert so much influence.

Welcome to soulsource, AlbertRoss.

No doubt you conducted a representative survey before you reached that shocking conclusion?

By the way, I don't suppose you're related to Dina Sore by any chance, are you?

[Pete S]

I don't think there's a single person now, in retrospect (even James) who would disagree that in the end the path taken by the Mecca in playing more upfront, crossover and modern sounds proved the right way to go.

I beg to differ

the misery that modern and crossover bring is unimaginable

[Guest Matt Male]

I beg to differ

the misery that modern and crossover bring is unimaginable

Brilliant. You know, when i was writing i was thinking of you Pete.

Ok, one person then...

[Guest Paul]

I beg to differ

the misery that modern and crossover bring is unimaginable

You may be entitled to compensation for the emotional distress you have suffered.

No win, no fee.

[jocko]

If James Trouble had his very own forum to express his personal hatred of Ian Levine, he'd have no need to hijack other threads - such as this one which was quite interesting until I almost forgot what it was about for a moment.

Editorial control, that's what's important.

Paul Mooney

Confused here Paul, James started this thread and I think his point was all about editorial control, albeit dressed up

dramatically as you would expect from a young Londoner. However surely the point he is making is valid, but as usual we go

over the same IL points,

I assume you are referring to the control on here however, if so do you not think it is fairer to the site to be less obtuse?.

The problem is exactly as I guessed people are being blinded by the fact it is James and not actually debating the issue, if there is one, as usual there is more about IL and JT than about Manifesto!

Its why debate on here is almost becoming pointless.

And regards James hatred, I am on record here and have said to James I don't think he should involve the site in this, but why

does no-one mention Ian Levine's behaviour threats and comments re Cyanide etc, it seems again people are blinded by personalities

rather than facing the facts.

[Cheapsiderecords]

Bring back Polly and Dennis Lee.

[Guest Paul]

Confused here Paul, James started this thread and I think his point was all about editorial control, albeit dressed up

dramatically as you would expect from a young Londoner. However surely the point he is making is valid, but as usual we go

over the same IL points,

I assume you are referring to the control on here however, if so do you not think it is fairer to the site to be less obtuse?.

The problem is exactly as I guessed people are being blinded by the fact it is James and not actually debating the issue, if there is one, as usual there is more about IL and JT than about Manifesto!

Its why debate on here is almost becoming pointless.

And regards James hatred, I am on record here and have said to James I don't think he should involve the site in this, but why

does no-one mention Ian Levine's behaviour threats and comments re Cyanide etc, it seems again people are blinded by personalities

rather than facing the facts.

Hello Jocko,

I was trying to be sarcastic but it didn't work. I just tried to make the point that I find it all a bit negative, provocative, predictable and boring.

Justified or not, James is obsessed with a personal hatred of Ian and tries to ridicule him in public at every opportunity. It really should be offlist, as should all personal disputes.

This community is at its best when we talk about music or cheer each other up with good-natured humour.

Best regards,

Paul

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

I beg to differ

the misery that modern and crossover bring is unimaginable

What misery? You either like it or you don't? And many people do like 70's/ Crossover/ Modern/ Latin/ (and dare i say it) Funk.

The quandary is? Why do we have to tolerate all the downbeat and midtempo 60's stuff, but we can't listen or dance to good uptempo Crossover or 70's. Ann Sexton seems more like Northern than Ray Pollard "The drifter".

Martyn

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

Gotta correct you there Martyn - I'm not on the staff because there isn't any staff, nor a realistic budget for one. I've been helping Mike out 'cos I'm down the road and I've know him 36 years and he's been a very, very good mate to me. So I try and return the many favours he's done for me over the years and that's the main level of my involvement.

So Quid Pro Quo then.

Res Ipsa Loquitur......

Ian D

I'm on the staff of S.R. but i don't get paid. Didn't know it was a criteria to get paid. Sorry.

Martyn

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

I agree about forums sometimes coming over negative, but the other side of that is they allow debate that otherwise may not be heard. Debate isn't and shouldn't only be about positivity, when used to highlight negative things and debated properly, they are great mediums, and it is generally the quality of the debate that is the problem with forums as far as I can see. I appreciate direct criticism is hard to take but when in the public eye I am afaid this is the risk you take, I did think about not using your name directly but I felt otherwise it just looked like me moaning. The scene isn't all positive in my eyes at all, 95% is piss poor and below the standard I want from my Northern scene and having spent a large chunk of the last 30 years being around it I think I am allowed an opinion.

I think the magazine could be a far more positive input to the scene than it is to be honest, hence my comments. I think the Northern stuff in is a trifle embarrassing to be honest, it generally covers a part of the scene I am not really interested in. It very rarely covers anything to do with the progressive side, apart from Sam, and him and Tim's squabbling has now just got boring, I don't agree with all of Paul S's views but I think most can see where he is coming from with the jobs for the boys quotes.

But to be honest I am not that concerned with that side, the one thing I like about the magazine, and probably the reason you are not going to get much positivity from Northern only people on here, is the coverage it gives to new artists. I think this is its strength as this is where it can bring new soul to a wider audience and make a difference to the artists, by looking at new released stuff new also the new CD's, the coverage of which is woefully short. If you read my initial response I actually say it's a positive resource.

I have sent Mike 2 emails about the magazine, one about one of your interviews where I felt you sold the artist short and one about the lack of coverage of new release CD's. Neither were answered, I also sent numerous emails about back issues and subs which were all ignored, my subs were only sorted out when Ian D gave details of an outside company. And I think that is a key point here, I am presenting my points as a subscriber which surely allows me to do so, and am doing so to stop me and many others I suspect, not subscribing in future.

This is just bollocks; I would say I was a pretty regular attendee on the Northern scene from 1978 to 1995, where was he then, although I suppose you could say that about lots of people. If you truly think his CD is the future of the scene then yes you should give up, you just confirm my view we come from scenes as far apart as I am from the Rock and Roll scene you quote.

Also I didn't take issue with Levine's input, I took issue with the magazine providing masses of free advertising, with what looked like no editorial control, to his latest product , which I think was James's original point. As usual people keep ignoring the point and argue their own points. Its this weakening of the magazine standards that I think is putting it's existence in trouble, and I am probably one of the more likely on here to actually buy the CD but won't because of Levine's recent behaviour, which everyone seems to be ignoring again, as evidenced by Jayne's response.

I actually didn't say anything about the spelling etc of the interviews, I made a general comment about the quality within the magazine, I do not hold you responsible for that at all, this was a comment on the standards within the magazine generally, I was suggesting they get a proof reader, so I think you are taking that too personally. I don't expect perfection, in many ways it's the flawed bits that are interesting, however spelling and grammar in a magazine is essential to me and should be the responsibility of the editor, surely in todays technologically driven world its not that difficult to get right.

I was however commenting on the quality of the interviews, as I do think these have gradually got poorer, and in all honesty it often comes over as if you have not done enough research and therefore the conversations can come over as quite lightweight.

I appreciate your comments on time above, I wasn't sure if you did this professionally and if not I appreciate I am being harsh, but the other side of this is this is music and artists I love, you are getting an opportunity most would give their right arm for, I think they deserve more respect. As for me doing it, I would love to, it has been one of my dreams for many years as many people will attest to, but here is the rub, I know I probably don't have time, and probably not the skills either, so therefore I don't as I do not feel I could do the job it deserves. Maybe something you need to consider if you really no longer have the appetite.

I really do take my hat off to you doing this as amateur and fitting in the job as well, I would be sorrier to see you stop than I would to continue but surely you can see that objective criticism I am giving is good for you and can only help you improve, assuming you want to.

And I suppose this brings us back to the lads club criticism of the mag, forums are great places for picking up knowledge when required, a simple request on here, or probably EMS, would probably give you all the research you need for most artists within minutes, maybe if you did use that and were more visible people wouldn't feel the mag is such a closed shop

Just to prove I am not just picking on you, I would also say I am slightly disappointed in Sean Livesey's new column. I would hope Mr Livesey, given his training, would expect some feedback, but although I think his column shows promise at moment it has too little direction and is in danger of just replicating Sean Chapmans column for the modern scene. I am sure Sean L could go much more in depth (as could Sean C but in all honesty I very rarely read his column now) but as he is new I appreciate he is probably finding his feet. Surely pointing this out now is not insulting him, I would hope as a journalist he would see it as something to consider. If all journalists threw their dummy out of the pram every time somebody disagreed with them we would be crunching our way around Fleet Street!

And to prove some positive things, I like Fish's column, fairly unique in its coverage and I buy something every month because of that, I like Sam's record reviews, often flawed, but hugely enthusiastic and always has me looking for sound clips. And Ian D's recent articles have been refreshing in that they have been on something different, maybe Ian could serialise his book in the mag!

My comments really are made with the interest of the magazine, I love printed words over the internet any day and would love nothing more than to see this magazine prosper as it is unique in the market place, I suspect SS is not its target audience and maybe that is another thing that needs to be done, is some marketing, I think you would be surprised that there are as many people who want to help as there are to see it flounder.

Ian I totally respect this, but I suppose the point I am making is if it becomes too amateurish it won't survive, harsh but true. I appreciate there have been difficult times for mag in recent years but I spoke before with you about the complete lack of response to any emails, which I know you have sorted on many occasions, but things like this just I think take away all the good points,

In all honesty I assumed Mike made a living out of it which is why I have been a little harsh, if he is doing it as amateur then yes, hats off, I think a monthly magazine has been beyond people with far greater resources than this so that in itself is a great achievement.

Maybe it is time to widen the net for contributors, as I say the coverage of CD's released, new and old material, is really quite poor, other than Fish's column, but some of the bigger stuff could do with full reviews for me as I assume Mike gets the products.

I am sure there would be a lot of people who buy the stuff happy to write about it, it really is a fantastic tool to promote artists product, both old and new which at the end of the day, while really being of little interest to many on here, is one of the few ways we can actually give back to the people who have given us so much.

And more to the point I am still willing to buy some back issues if you can sort it out for me......

You answer your own questions on here Martin, you can't address the problems if there is no medium to communicate, hence using this forum.

And as for SR not selling on here, not sure I have ever seen it advertised, I have never seen any issues of it to be honest, and as long as you do not have any quotes in it saying that the 80's were all oldies, as Sam attributed to you in most recent Manifesto, I would take a copy of each back issue you have. PM me.

Jocko.

Just trying to illustrate a point on the thread.

As regards the magazine, and the 'publicity'. The main problem i've had is firstly distribution, so many haven't seen it. Secondly, it is an old style A4 (non-politically correct) fanzine. Thirdly, the majority of magazine buyers are not interested in it's content. Which is record reviews, clubs, and publicising a progressive agenda. Fourthly it lacks adverts! Fithly, it doesn't present a mirror image of what the revialists portray as Northern soul.

The last issue was on the sales thread recently, but sold a paltry (but appreciated) number of copies.

Which lead me to post that previous post. Lastly that some want an alternative, or moan about it. But don't put their money where their mouth is.

Martyn

[Guest Matt Male]

The problem is exactly as I guessed people are being blinded by the fact it is James and not actually debating the issue, if there is one, as usual there is more about IL and JT than about Manifesto!

Its why debate on here is almost becoming pointless.

Are you kidding Jock? The original post is about Ian Levine's appearance in Manifesto. I agree that James is mainly critical of Manifesto's editorial policy, but it is in relation to publishing the Levine article. Would James have started a thread about Manifesto without that article appearing? No, most probably not. That's why it's become about IL and JT. To be honest i'm suprised that there are as many posts purely about Manifesto as there are on this thread and it hasn't descended into solely IL vs. JT again.

'people' aren't to blame once the terms of the debate are presented so clearly in the original post surely?

Matt

[Guest Catfish]

I think you could do it Catfish!!.Just one thing.Going to an interview in the bath may be tricky,and could well prove a distraction for the interviewer.

Editing and taking over the mag whilst in the bath - no problem for you. .

Ha, lucky I put a comma after the word 'interview', then, smarty-pants. Oh and thank you for the encouragement, by the way.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Catfish

[Pete S]

What misery? You either like it or you don't? And many people do like 70's/ Crossover/ Modern/ Latin/ (and dare i say it) Funk.

The quandary is? Why do we have to tolerate all the downbeat and midtempo 60's stuff, but we can't listen or dance to good uptempo Crossover or 70's. Ann Sexton seems more like Northern than Ray Pollard "The drifter".

Martyn

Sense of humour bypass alert

[Hermanthegerman]

I beg to differ

the misery that modern and crossover bring is unimaginable

Pete, don´t agree with you too often , but I´m completely with you on this matter.

[Guest]

Welcome to soulsource, AlbertRoss.

No doubt you conducted a representative survey before you reached that shocking conclusion?

By the way, I don't suppose you're related to Dina Sore by any chance, are you?

Ha ha. No I'm not. And no I did not conduct a survey. I just wracked my brains to think back over the last 35 years and I couldn't think of a single time when his name came up for any other reason than he'd pissed someone off, but then my memory is not what it was ;-).

My problem with him was always that, to me, he seemed like he wanted to control the scene and make it do his will. I have always felt that the scene thrived on obscure, (mostly good, sometimes bad) rare soul music in some form or another. I always thought of "tailor made" records as being against the spirit of the whole thing.

[Guest Eddies]

Manifesto is a lads mag James, as ive said before. It has never, represented the scene, just the interests of those who dominate it in the pursuit of a dollar!

Even , when the play toured, it got very little coverage, particularly on the second tour, because there was no way for them to make a fast buck out of it. In fact Be Cool they tried to stop the play (but thats another story!).

These guys want to own a scene that can't be owned ...they employ each other in a desperate attemp at self perpetuation. Look at Red Eye.....jokers taking pictures of each other, at each others events, that are covered by each other, in this hackneyed magazine....dont take it seriously because they take themselves seriously enough to compensate for all of us!

Paul-s

I beg to differ...when Polly and Denis Lee ran it it was a f**king good read

[moddy]

Haha, taking over the magazine entirely and promising to run it for 9+ years, plus having future contacts, is a little different from what was originally cited! (But I'm sure I could obtain contacts, if I put my mind to it.) I've never produced a whole magazine and didn't claim I could. I have , however, just been planning how to go about my first interview, whilst in the bath. Will PM you. Thank you. I need a new challenge in my life .

M

Were in his post does it say you will take over the magazine, and promis to run it for 9+ years, I think you need to re-read

what he actualy said just like you didnt look at who the orig post was aimed at it didnt have your name on the heading or am i mistaken

[moddy]

The people that write articles for manifesto do a brill job they dont get paid for it they do for the love of the music,most have day jobs and family's, and put a lot of time and effort into what they write, if you dont like what they write dont read it simple realy, half the people on here, that have never been to a soul venue in years and that sit behing there computer tip tapping and slagging the efforts of others piss me off, mabe you shoul get out a bit more venture into the half filled venues up n down the country and help keep the soul scene alive instead of killing it with your nasty negativity.

[Wiganer1]

I beg to differ...when Polly and Denis Lee ran it it was a f**king good read

------------

wheres polly now????....

[Ady Croasdell]

------------

wheres polly now????....

Putting the kettle on.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Putting the kettle on.

Post of the thread!

Ian D

[jocko]

Hello Jocko,

I was trying to be sarcastic but it didn't work. I just tried to make the point that I find it all a bit negative, provocative, predictable and boring.

Justified or not, James is obsessed with a personal hatred of Ian and tries to ridicule him in public at every opportunity. It really should be offlist, as should all personal disputes.

This community is at its best when we talk about music or cheer each other up with good-natured humour.

Best regards,

Paul

No I think it was more me not reading it correctly when I review it, so sorry about confusing it.

I totally agree with you re the negative part and the off list part and I have said as much to James, I still think that it

raised interesting points about Manifesto and soul journalism generally that could and should be taken as constructive criticism

but I suppose on hindsight you and Matt are right, based on past evidence, that it would just drop down into slanging.

[Wiganer1]

Putting the kettle on.

======

funny u shud say that,,was at work yesterday and we had a suki on the other the end of the phone,,,i wonder if she took it off......

ref polly palmer...another character that went everywhere at one point then nowhere to be seen....or is it me?

[Guest BigPaul]

Dont you think that due to the amount of Posts Ian Levine made whilst

on SS !!!!!

He is possibly responsible for 5,999,999 of the hits on his U-Tube site?

It was KevH who was the other lol

[Paul-s]

Do you know all the contributors then Paul? 'Cos you sure as shit don't know me, so I have no idea why you'd want to tar everybody with the same brush. You're so far wide of the mark it's laughable. Are you saying that Keith Rylatt, Rob Moss, Soul Sam and the literally hundreds of other contributors over the last 15 years 'have never represented the scene'?

Tosh! You must have an axe to grind with someone but don't generalise about some people who have given their whole lives to Northern Soul because that just makes you look like a prat.

Ian D

Yes, i do know you...never taken you that seriously mate...Just another one of the illiterate SOPRANO gang who run the magazine. In fact this inarticulate response of yours highlights the point im making..Manifesto is a lads mag and you are certainly one of the 'lads'. You seem to forget that , unlike Levine, I have been 'ON' the scene for 34 years, so dont give me your big i am speech about dedication and contribution, because, like your attempts at literacy, it doesn't impress....

The contibutors dont make a Mag, its the editors, who manipulate and decide what goes and what stays in, who form its credibility. Really suprised, given your obvious intelligence..mmmmm, that you haven't realised that, especially as you regard yourself so highly in the world of publishing!

(i have answered this in a personal way, given you sadly lacking attempts at insulting me!) Keep on Creeping on with 'Monopolifesto'

Edited August 14, 2009 by paul-s

[Pete S]

Yes, i do know you...never taken you that seriously mate...Just another one of the illiterate SOPRANO gang who run the magazine. In fact this inarticulate response of yours highlights the point im making..Manifesto is a lads mag and you are certainly one of the 'lads'. You seem to forget that , unlike Levine, I have been 'ON' the scene for 34 years, so dont give me your big i am speech about dedication and contribution, because, like your attempts at literacy, it doesn't impress....

The contibutors dont make a Mag, its the editors, who manipulate and decide what goes and what stays in, who form its credibility. Really suprised, given your obvious intelligence..mmmmm, that you haven't realised that, especially as you regard yourself so highly in the world of publishing!

(i have answered this in a personal way, given you sadly lacking attempts at insulting me!) Keep on Creeping on with 'Monopolifesto'

if there's one thing people can't accuse you of Paul it's not speaking your mind. I don't read Manifesto because for the first four or five years of it's life it was a waste of decent trees with articles about people on the scene and their mates, has it improved, I dunno, but based on previous experience I wouldn't buy it.

[pikeys dog]

I only ever read the Mr Potatohead column, and when that stooped it was bye bye...

[Markw]

Gotta correct you there Martyn - I'm not on the staff because there isn't any staff, nor a realistic budget for one. I've been helping Mike out 'cos I'm down the road and I've know him 36 years and he's been a very, very good mate to me. So I try and return the many favours he's done for me over the years and that's the main level of my involvement.

So Quid Pro Quo then.

Res Ipsa Loquitur......

Ian D

Nihil illegitamatti carberendum

[Guest proudlove]

Nihil illegitamatti carberendum

Seconded.

If you don't like the magazine---------------don't buy it,

If you don't like Levine--------------ignore him,

If you want to insult people----------do it to their face,but don't insult people because they are different than you-----------you may be the one that is different!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think about it'

Steve

[Guest James Trouble]

Yes, i do know you...never taken you that seriously mate...Just another one of the illiterate SOPRANO gang who run the magazine. In fact this inarticulate response of yours highlights the point im making..Manifesto is a lads mag and you are certainly one of the 'lads'. You seem to forget that , unlike Levine, I have been 'ON' the scene for 34 years, so dont give me your big i am speech about dedication and contribution, because, like your attempts at literacy, it doesn't impress....

The contibutors dont make a Mag, its the editors, who manipulate and decide what goes and what stays in, who form its credibility. Really suprised, given your obvious intelligence..mmmmm, that you haven't realised that, especially as you regard yourself so highly in the world of publishing!

(i have answered this in a personal way, given you sadly lacking attempts at insulting me!) Keep on Creeping on with 'Monopolifesto'

That's a post

The problem is, Manifesto is dominated by those who are not part of and whom have little clue about the underground and rare soul scene today.

I think Soul Sam should jump ship, stop writing for Manifesto and do a regular monthly blog to be posted on the front page of Soul-Source. There are more readers of Soul-Source than Manifesto, I'd guess 100 times more. This site is the real magazine representing the global rare soul scene today.

Edited August 14, 2009 by James Trouble