Dave Godin

[Jaco]

In response to points raised in other threads.

Dave Godin - jouranalistic doyen of the UK soul scene or over-rated wordsmith?

Discuss.

From my point of view I have some sympathy with Pete Smith's opinion.

As much as I admired Godin's enthusiasm, knowledge and contribution to the soul scene, particularly in the 70's, I often found his writing style impenetrable and at times mildly pretentious.

That is not to say that his place in the scene's history could be devalued - I'm talking about his style, and his style only.

[Davetay]

In response to points raised in other threads.

Dave Godin - jouranalistic doyen of the UK soul scene or over-rated wordsmith?

Discuss.

From my point of view I have some sympathy with Pete Smith's opinion.

As much as I admired Godin's enthusiasm, knowledge and contribution to the soul scene, particularly in the 70's, I often found his writing style impenetrable and at times mildly pretentious.

That is not to say that his place in the scene's history could be devalued - I'm talking about his style, and his style only.

Dave was too good at english for his own good, why use 1 word when you can use 1,000,000.

Overall Dave had his heart in the right place, offen outspoken, but still a good guy.

[Guest]

Dave was too good at english for his own good, why use 1 word when you can use 1,000,000.

Overall Dave had his heart in the right place, offen outspoken, but still a good guy.

Very succint and I concur sir!

You should have seen his letters to Sheffield council in the 80s and 90s - all gems and The Star newspaper stopped printing them after a while................

Loved his soul knowledge didn't love his style

[dthedrug]

Dave Godin good bloke, however the way you are talking about him you would think he bloody invented "Northern Soul"? is he dead? I know a lot good gossip about his coke habit? when he stayed in a Blackpool B&B, and could not get a cuppa!tea?what the f**k- and there's More DAVE OF THE WORLD Edited July 26, 2009 by dthedrug

[dthedrug]

Very succinct and I concur sir!

You should have seen his letters to Sheffield council in the 80s and 90s - all gems and The Star newspaper stopped printing them after a while................

Loved his soul knowledge didn't love his style

Yes Dave Godin, was an academic, his knowledge was always delivered astutely as a quite sage, maybe his ventures into the modernistic world of the 6ts added to his manner? "Wisdom" that's the word that describes DG "and then some".

DAVE KIL

[Guest]

Dave was too good at english for his own good, why use 1 word when you can use 1,000,000.

Overall Dave had his heart in the right place, offen outspoken, but still a good guy.

If Dave was around today , I am sure he would have challenged you on that - it would have been 1,000,001

For those of us who knew Dave well , we were fully aware of the image , but cast that aside in respect of the man as a person .

Dave was outspoken , but that was due to being passionate about his beliefs .

Malc Burton

Edited July 26, 2009 by Malc Burton

[Rich B]

_{Anybody familiar with the phrase "If you can't say anything nice..."?}

_{As far as it goes we probably all have some gossip on each other, and I have to say I'm not a fan of the intellectual (or lack of) capacities of some contributors on the forum - but what is the point of this thread?}

_{As far as I can tell, he was an intellectual, a humanitarian - certainly a vegetarian. He had fabulous knowledge of soul music and his passion was unquestionable. he didn't invent 'northern soul' - but he certainly gave it a name, and for those of us young enough (and needy enough) an identity as a 'northern soulie'. I suppose we could move on to his journalistic talents, they didn't seem 'inpenetrable' to me at the time, but time and old age does change your view on some things.}

_{I think 'all round good egg' probably sums him up for me.}

_Best,

_RB.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Rich B

[Jaco]

The point of the thread was to discuss somebody's journalistic style as this had been raised in a previous thread.

Is there anything wrong in that?

I know Dave Godin is no longer with us but we can surely debate his writing style without appearing to be unnecessarily negative.

[Guest]

The point of the thread was to discuss somebody's journalistic style as this had been raised in a previous thread.

Is there anything wrong in that?

I know Dave Godin is no longer with us but we can surely debate his writing style without appearing to be unnecessarily negative.

Dave's journalistic style , and subsequent writings , encompassed a wide variety of subject matter , was was formed through his many convictions and beliefs . Those convictions and beliefs , often resulted in him being challenged for the contraversey of the content . He always respected the argument of the other party , but he always stood firm by his ethics .

Malc Burton

[Guest]

Met him at Pete Lawsons funeral and to me he was a perfect gentleman allbeit a bit strange(as were 99.9 of the rest of the people there! )

Steve

Remember Pete Lawsons magazine "The Gospel According To Dave Godin".

Pete was such a great fanatic of Northern Soul, he named his mag after the guy who invented a name for the scene, that played uptempo soul music in allnighters!

Peter was so pleased when Dave Godin turned up at his house one day to do an interview for the Magazine. I heard the tapes of the interveiw at the time, interesting stuff!

Ivan.

[Baz Atkinson]

A TREMENDOUS GRASP OF THE WRITTEN WORD AND A DEEP SOUL MESSIAH - JUST TREMENDOUS TASTE, MOST OF THE STUFF FROM HIS DEEP SOUL TREAUSRES ARE NOW IN REFOSOUL THANKFULLY,HE LEFT HIS MARK IN THE SOUL WORLD IN MORE WAYS THAT ONE!!

BAZ A

[Guest]

A TREMENDOUS GRASP OF THE WRITTEN WORD AND A DEEP SOUL MESSIAH - JUST TREMENDOUS TASTE, MOST OF THE STUFF FROM HIS DEEP SOUL TREAUSRES ARE NOW IN REFOSOUL THANKFULLY,HE LEFT HIS MARK IN THE SOUL WORLD IN MORE WAYS THAT ONE!!

BAZ A

His passion for the music compiled in the DST series , was on a par with his views on , and campaigning against cruelty to animals .......

Malc Burton

[Guest]

_{Anybody familiar with the phrase "If you can't say anything nice..."?}

_{As far as it goes we probably all have some gossip on each other, and I have to say I'm not a fan of the intellectual (or lack of) capacities of some contributors on the forum - but what is the point of this thread?}

_{As far as I can tell, he was an intellectual, a humanitarian - certainly a vegetarian. He had fabulous knowledge of soul music and his passion was unquestionable. he didn't invent 'northern soul' - but he certainly gave it a name, and for those of us young enough (and needy enough) an identity as a 'northern soulie'. I suppose we could move on to his journalistic talents, they didn't seem 'inpenetrable' to me at the time, but time and old age does change your view on some things.}

_{I think 'all round good egg' probably sums him up for me.}

_Best,

_RB.

Well spoken mate....DAVE GODIN was of course, all of the things you outline and as such, his overall contribution was/is beyond the understanding of a large amount of people.

To be brutally honest - and if certain people don't like this, then let the storm commence - I believe this thread is simply about somebody needing back up for a perspective they voiced. Of course, this will be denied heartfully and nobody will be honest enough to admit it. But they know who they are....

You are of course, absolutely correct. What on earth is the point of this thread? The proposer of the debate states he wishes it to remain firmly within the realms of DAVE GODIN'S writing style. In which case, there is no room for any discussion, a simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice. But why on earth should we all wish to MERELY ask each other whether we like DAVE GODIN'S writing style or not - and then just leave it at that?

No, once one takes a position, that position is worthless within a debating arena, unless one is prepared to clarify that position. That is a fundamental logic of all debates and forums. 'Yes' and 'No' responses are for POLLS....If you want a POLL, then simply ask for one. There is of course a massive difference between a poll and a debate.

It is of course possible to admire a person as a human being but not as a writer. But then what are we talking about? In terms of text mechanics and style, or the content and tone of the composition? When a Writer and human like DAVE GODIN covers so many different subjects and themes can we be objective with a simple blanket dismissal - as was the individual who prompted this thread? A person like DAVE GODIN is far too complex to dismiss in the way certain people have done recently on this forum. I would challenge people to indeed read some of his letters to Sheffield City Council, along with his B/S Columns then just try reading the beautiful little tribute he wrote to RANDY COZENS and tell me that the prose contained in that piece was 'inpenetrable'. More like tender, profound, illuminating and searingly honest in my book. In fact one of the most touching and heartfelt tributes I have ever read from one man to another deceased friend. Were we all able to convey feelings and emotions in such a manner - this world would be a far more soulful and better place.

I read DAVE as a teenager avidly and never once found his prose - as regards Soul - to be anything more than thoroughly inspiring and educational. If you were the only boy in a school of a 1,000 kids who cared remotely about something called 'Northern Soul' you may well have experienced a similar appreciation!

This man - as a human being, a Soul fan and a Writer simply deserves more this. Either don't mention him at all - or if you are going to be critical of his work - give us something to absorb and debate. It is so easy to make an arrogant aside amidst an argument, but how DAVE GODIN has become a topic for this type of debate - when it was originally deemed he was too far 'off topic' in a debate about the merits of orginal 6OS Soul records vs UK/US Pop cover versions - beggars belief! I think DAVE himself would have chuckled at that incredible paradox!

Whilst MALC BURTON and others have made nice attempts at speaking up for DAVE, the truth is that if there needs to be one at all, his life and work deserve a far deeper debate. The context proposed for this one is both shallow and facile.

And as for drug dallying and shenanigans in Bed and Breakfasts, sounds like around 65 per cent of the Northern Soul crowd at some time or another over the last 40 years! (The remotely interesting percentage that is!!!)

RIP

Edited July 28, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Jaco]

Well spoken mate....DAVE GODIN was of course, all of the things you outline and as such, his overall contribution was/is beyond the understanding of a large amount of people.

To be brutally honest - and if certain people don't like this, then let the storm commence - I believe this thread is simply about somebody needing back up for a perspective they voiced. Of course, this will be denied heartfully and nobody will be honest enough to admit it. But they know who they are....

You are of course, absolutely correct. What on earth is the point of this thread? The proposer of the debate states he wishes it to remain firmly within the realms of DAVE GODIN'S writing style. In which case, there is no room for any discussion, a simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice. But why on earth should we all wish to MERELY ask each other whether we like DAVE GODIN'S writing style or not - and then just leave it at that?

No, once one takes a position, that position is worthless within a debating arena, unless one is prepared to clarify that position. That is a fundamental logic of all debates and forums. 'Yes' and 'No' responses are for POLLS....If you want a POLL, then simply ask for one. There is of course a massive difference between a poll and a debate.

It is of course possible to admire a person as a human being but not as a writer. But then what are we talking about? In terms of text mechanics and style, or the content and tone of the composition? When a Writer and human like DAVE GODIN covers so many different subjects and themes can we be objective with a simple blanket dismissal - as was the individual who prompted this thread? A person like DAVE GODIN is far too complex to dismiss in the way certain people have done recently on this forum. I would challenge people to indeed read some of his letters to Sheffield City Council, along with his B/S Columns then just try reading the beautiful little tribute he wrote to RANDY COUZENS and tell me that the prose contained in that piece was 'inpenetrable'. More like tender, profound, illuminating and searingly honest in my book. In fact one of the most touching and heartfelt tributes I have ever read from one man to another deceased friend. Were we all able to convey feelings and emotions in such a manner - this world would be a far more soulful and better place.

I read DAVE as a teenager avidly and never once found his prose - as regards Soul - to be anything more than thoroughly inspiring and educational. If you were the only boy in a school of a 1,000 kids who cared remotely about something called 'Northern Soul' you may well have experienced a similar appreciation!

This man - as a human being, a Soul fan and a Writer simply deserves more this. Either don't mention him at all - or if you are going to be critical of his work - give us something to absorb and debate. It is so easy to make an arrogant aside amidst an argument, but how DAVE GODIN has become a topic for this type of debate - when it was originally deemed he was too far 'off topic' in a debate about the merits of orginal 6OS Soul records vs UK/US Pop cover versions - beggars belief! I think DAVE himself would have chuckled at that incredible paradox!

Whilst MALC BURTON and others have made nice attempts at speaking up for DAVE, the truth is that if there needs to be one at all, his life and work deserve a far deeper debate. The context proposed for this one is both shallow and facile.

And as for drug dallying and shenanigans in Bed and Breakfasts, sounds like around 65 per cent of the Northern Soul crowd at some time or another over the last 40 years! (The remotely interesting percentage that is!!!)

RIP

Ok, lets try and keep this simple.

As far as I'm aware nobody "is needing back up for a perspective they voiced"

You and Pete Smith exchanged views on Dave Godin. Pete suggested that you start a thread about Dave's writing style which appeared to be the main crux of your annoyance.

A thread was not forthcoming, so I started one.

I said "discuss" and offered my opinion that I found his writing style impenetrable at times.

With me so far?

Other people have passed comment - that's what happens on threads. It just doesn't come down to a yes or no. People express opinions, people offer counter opinions and so it goes.

I haven't read everthing that Dave Godin wrote, but what I did read and can remember was often unnecessarily wordy in the context of what was being written about.

But you know that's just my opinion, a bit like yours but different.

You seem to be angry that anybody should level any form of criticism at Dave Godin because he was a wonderful human being etc, but why should I not have the right to agree with Pete Smith's initial comments about his writing style? He was a journalist was he not? Does that make him beyond reproach, journalistic wise?

You want a deeper debate and maybe others will take you up on that.

Me, I haven't got much more to say because it seems that you don't want any alternative views on anything.

[Ady Croasdell]

As a uni student back in 1970 I had to reach for the dictionary a few times when reading Dave's B&S articles but that was one of the great things about them. Prior to that a lot of music journalism was just weak PR for the record companies or artists that could have been written in their sleep. Dave raised the bar so high that many people upped their game and we got whole new perspectives on the music, singers and even life; it was very stimulating but was not preaching. The disappointment at Frank Elson's mundane name and gig checks thereafter was colossal, I stopped buying the mag.

He could be wordy; but that's the idea really.

[Pete S]

Ok, lets try and keep this simple.

As far as I'm aware nobody "is needing back up for a perspective they voiced"

You and Pete Smith exchanged views on Dave Godin. Pete suggested that you start a thread about Dave's writing style which appeared to be the main crux of your annoyance.

A thread was not forthcoming, so I started one.

I said "discuss" and offered my opinion that I found his writing style impenetrable at times.

With me so far?

Other people have passed comment - that's what happens on threads. It just doesn't come down to a yes or no. People express opinions, people offer counter opinions and so it goes.

I haven't read everthing that Dave Godin wrote, but what I did read and can remember was often unnecessarily wordy in the context of what was being written about.

But you know that's just my opinion, a bit like yours but different.

You seem to be angry that anybody should level any form of criticism at Dave Godin because he was a wonderful human being etc, but why should I not have the right to agree with Pete Smith's initial comments about his writing style? He was a journalist was he not? Does that make him beyond reproach, journalistic wise?

You want a deeper debate and maybe others will take you up on that.

Me, I haven't got much more to say because it seems that you don't want any alternative views on anything.

Well said mate, saved me doing it - he pleaded for a debate on Dave Godin then when someone opens one, he moans because you've opened a debate about Dave Godin!

I never met Dave, never wanted to, I have no opinions on his private life and I don't care about it. I have read lots of his material going back to the first Motown Apprteciation Society mags, of which I have every copy. I never liked his writings in B & S. That's the end of the debate as far as I'm concerned, and all this preachy stuff isn't going to make me change my mind so Chorleysoul, what actually is your agenda here and do you want a debate or just want everyone to agree with you?

[Guest ShaneH]

off topic.

Dave's old house here in sheffield has been converted into a care home looking after 4 autistic adults. My mate is a carer there.

Never met him but he is well known here in Sheffield for is activities outside soul music including a art-house cinema he ran years ago. The local papers will often mention him.

Shane

[Ady Croasdell]

off topic.

Dave's old house here in sheffield has been converted into a care home looking after 4 autistic adults. My mate is a carer there.

Never met him but he is well known here in Sheffield for is activities outside soul music including a art-house cinema he ran years ago. The local papers will often mention him.

Shane

Hi Shane,

That's good news, it was a big enough gaff, I'm sure Dave would have been delighted. He had many interests which he pursued with the same vigour that he did Northern Soul in the early days.

Ady

PS Tell your mate to check the attic, just in case!

[macca]

I never met Dave, but would have liked to have had the chance. I think we have to remember that he was a middle class class intellectual who happened to wander in on a fiercely proletarian scene and probably found it exotic and compelling, much in the same way as Epstein discovering the Beatles. His literary style could come over as a bit floral and convoluted, but I always found that amusing, even entertaining. More importantly he was knowledgeable, you could always extract something from his B&S articles. I for one certainly learned from him musically speaking.

[Ady Croasdell]

I never met Dave, but would have liked to have had the chance. I think we have to remember that he was a middle class class intellectual who happened to wander in on a fiercely proletarian scene and probably found it exotic and compelling, much in the same way as Epstein discovering the Beatles. His literary style could come over as a bit floral and convoluted, but I always found that amusing, even entertaining. More importantly he was knowledgeable, you could always extract something from his B&S articles. I for one certainly learned from him musically speaking.

Actually Macca he was self-educated working class I think his dad was a milkman or something similar. It's a common assumption that such an educated person would be at least middle class but the socialist working class in particular took great pride in their learning and reading. You would have enjoyed meeting him, I'm sure.

[macca]

Ooops! Just shows that one shouldn't make assumptions then.

I had assumed because of his Dartford connections with Mick Jagger

that he was a middle class, grammar school educated chap, like MJ.

M

[Jaco]

I never met Dave, but would have liked to have had the chance. I think we have to remember that he was a middle class class intellectual who happened to wander in on a fiercely proletarian scene and probably found it exotic and compelling, much in the same way as Epstein discovering the Beatles. His literary style could come over as a bit floral and convoluted, but I always found that amusing, even entertaining. More importantly he was knowledgeable, you could always extract something from his B&S articles. I for one certainly learned from him musically speaking.

Macca, I would also extract something worth knowing from his Blues & Soul articles and his knowledge was unquestionable.

My point about his writing style is not the character assassination that some might think.

I'm not a vegetarian but have a sneeking admiration for those that adopt that lifestyle choice. Equally I am a fierce advocate of animal welfare rights.

I have not read his tribute to Randy Couzens but would probably be moved by it.

On this basis Dave Godin would be my kind of guy, if you know what I mean.

That doesn't mean to say that I should admire every facet of his work - the humanitarian aspects are seperate from his journalistic style.

It's as simple as that really.

[Guest Karen Heath]

I never met Dave, but would have liked to have had the chance. I think we have to remember that he was a middle class class intellectual who happened to wander in on a fiercely proletarian scene and probably found it exotic and compelling, much in the same way as Epstein discovering the Beatles. His literary style could come over as a bit floral and convoluted, but I always found that amusing, even entertaining. More importantly he was knowledgeable, you could always extract something from his B&S articles. I for one certainly learned from him musically speaking.

Macca,

Dave was 100% working class from a very humble background but had an immense curiosity and thirst for knowledge from a very young age. I used to mock him and say that he must have seemed a most peculiar child to his family and peers!

A favourite story, which in my mind always sums him up in all his quirkiness, is when he went to the funfair which he adored, armed with his new favourite record in his satchel. He was so excited by this new purchase and impatient to hear it that he persuaded the guys working on the Waltzer to play it for him at full blast. It was Stravinsky's 'Rite of Spring'....can you imagine that? Brilliant-only Dave could persuade burly fairground guys to do that!

[Guest Karen Heath]

Macca, I would also extract something worth knowing from his Blues & Soul articles and his knowledge was unquestionable.

My point about his writing style is not the character assassination that some might think.

I'm not a vegetarian but have a sneeking admiration for those that adopt that lifestyle choice. Equally I am a fierce advocate of animal welfare rights.

I have not read his tribute to Randy Couzens but would probably be moved by it.

On this basis Dave Godin would be my kind of guy, if you know what I mean.

That doesn't mean to say that I should admire every facet of his work - the humanitarian aspects are seperate from his journalistic style.

It's as simple as that really.

Here is the article......

https://www.6ts.info/randy/tributes.htm

[Keithw]

This is my personal opinion,so i dont care if im right or wrong

I read blues and soul since edition 43 to when it bought out black music magazine

for me you always felt you were at the venue Dave was writing about

he described things so well

if he said a record was good,you had to have a listen,because mostly they were,he had great taste

I ALWAYS ATTRIBUTE HIM WITH HAVING THE FIRST COVER UPs--or at least this was the first time i had heard about the idea

of covering a label and calling things by another name

A LEGEND IN THE BIRTH OF OUR SCENE

[Guest ShaneH]

Hi Shane,

That's good news, it was a big enough gaff, I'm sure Dave would have been delighted. He had many interests which he pursued with the same vigour that he did Northern Soul in the early days.

Ady

PS Tell your mate to check the attic, just in case!

hi ady. yes my mate has been instructed to check the attic, cellar, garden shed, check partition walls etc

shane

[Stuart Bower]

off topic.

Dave's old house here in sheffield has been converted into a care home looking after 4 autistic adults. My mate is a carer there.

Never met him but he is well known here in Sheffield for is activities outside soul music including a art-house cinema he ran years ago. The local papers will often mention him.

Shane

That`ll be the Anvil in Sheffield-which was one of the few council owned cinemas in the country at the time- and yes-he was the manager. He let me in for free a few times. Like myself he had a great love of the cinema-Gone With The Wind was (i think) his favourite.

Edited July 27, 2009 by The Big Lebowski

[Guest]

That`ll be the Anvil in Sheffield-which was one of the few council owned cinemas in the country at the time- and yes-he was the manager. He let me in for free a few times. Like myself he had a great love of the cinema-Gone With The Wind was (i think) his favourite.

" Tara's Theme " from GWTW , was one of Dave's favourite pieces of music , and was played as his coffin was taken into his funeral service .

Despite being a sad day , hearing it made me smile ......

Malc Burton

[Stuart Bower]

" Tara's Theme " from GWTW , was one of Dave's favourite pieces of music , and was played as his coffin was taken into his funeral service .

Despite being a sad day , hearing it made me smile ......

Malc Burton

The missus and I were there also (as you know) Although sad, it was a most unusual heartwarming funeral. Dave would have approved. And "Working Class Hero" was apt, don`t you think?

[Guest Paul]

Dave may have come across as a bit superior sometimes but his intentions were good.

When I was a teenager I was very impressed because he had such good taste and was so well-read etc. But he was 22 years older than me so when I got older I realised he was just another human being with a big passion for music and the arts and very strong views on social issues etc.

And he was brave and very candid, even if meant shocking or offending people.

I didn't always agree with him but I always admired his spirit and his passion.

Paul Mooney

[Guest]

Well said mate, saved me doing it - he pleaded for a debate on Dave Godin then when someone opens one, he moans because you've opened a debate about Dave Godin!

I never met Dave, never wanted to, I have no opinions on his private life and I don't care about it. I have read lots of his material going back to the first Motown Apprteciation Society mags, of which I have every copy. I never liked his writings in B & S. That's the end of the debate as far as I'm concerned, and all this preachy stuff isn't going to make me change my mind so Chorleysoul, what actually is your agenda here and do you want a debate or just want everyone to agree with you?

That is a hilarious posting mate, I dont mind debating anything, but a simple examination of my contributions to the previous thread will clearly illustrate that I did not want to open a thread on DAVE GODIN and I most certainly did not 'PLEAD' for one lol! Talk about distortion and misinformation!

I merely uphold that your blase dismissal of DAVE GODIN'S relevance was a facile and shallow position and I stand by that. Whether you or anybody else dislikes his writing or not is irrelevant. He clearly massively influenced many, many people who have since gone on to make huge contributions to the Soul scene in the UK. That is his legacy and it will stand. All I also did was to state that I believed DAVE GODIN'S reviews of BESSIE BANKS were fair shout for examination in a debate about 60s Soul covers - this when somebody else suggested it, not me! It was you who treated that suggestion with contempt. The tone of this post is contemptuous also, but I will ignore that.

Many others obviously share a respect for DAVE GODIN and that is not going to change because somebody like you dismisses him. And yes, I agree with ADY, DAVE GODIN was actually a educational factor me too. If I did not understand a word, I too looked it up because I could sense his passion for Soul Music. I'd never have learnt the meaning of many of those words from my own teachers thats for sure! So I actually owe DAVE that. Thats no bullshit, just the actual truth. My school used to buy B/S and I used to rush into the library to absorb DAVE'S columns. I also agree with ADY that FRANK ELSON'S essays were boring and mechanical by comparison.

No, I do not want everybody to agree with me mate, but to be honest, you have a very brusque attitude to people who actually disagree with you. There is no 'preachy stuff' going on, just a difference of viewpoint, that is all.

I will thank you again for re-opening the BILLY STEWART VS GEORGIE FAME thread. I have posted an article on there addressing TONY ROUNCE'S question as to what cultural relevance is held by the 60s Soul originals and their pop cover counterparts.

Edited July 28, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

Ok, lets try and keep this simple.

As far as I'm aware nobody "is needing back up for a perspective they voiced"

You and Pete Smith exchanged views on Dave Godin. Pete suggested that you start a thread about Dave's writing style which appeared to be the main crux of your annoyance.

A thread was not forthcoming, so I started one.

I said "discuss" and offered my opinion that I found his writing style impenetrable at times.

With me so far?

Other people have passed comment - that's what happens on threads. It just doesn't come down to a yes or no. People express opinions, people offer counter opinions and so it goes.

I haven't read everthing that Dave Godin wrote, but what I did read and can remember was often unnecessarily wordy in the context of what was being written about.

But you know that's just my opinion, a bit like yours but different.

You seem to be angry that anybody should level any form of criticism at Dave Godin because he was a wonderful human being etc, but why should I not have the right to agree with Pete Smith's initial comments about his writing style? He was a journalist was he not? Does that make him beyond reproach, journalistic wise?

You want a deeper debate and maybe others will take you up on that.

Me, I haven't got much more to say because it seems that you don't want any alternative views on anything.

Who said he was beyond reproach? Who said I was angry? The angry tones have all come from PETE and I thank you for pointing out that it was PETE who suggested that I start a thread on DAVE GODIN!

In his latest post he claims that I 'pleaded' for one which is complete and utter distortion and ignores the fact that I actually stated that I did not want to start one!

Why is it that you think I dont want alternative views? If you don't have alternative views, you have no platform for your own so what are you talking about? I do not understand your line of ration and I mean that sincerely.

You know, I sense somewhat of a theme emanating here. Certain people make statements, encapsulating their views. If other people come back and make serious arguments against those positions, the debates then grind to a halt and the opposing position is lambasted as not being democratic and supposedly not wanting to hear alternative positons...

Does not work with me. I love a good debate between two positions. I'm not going to get angry about it either thats for sure!

[Guest]

Actually Macca he was self-educated working class I think his dad was a milkman or something similar. It's a common assumption that such an educated person would be at least middle class but the socialist working class in particular took great pride in their learning and reading. You would have enjoyed meeting him, I'm sure.

Thanks for pointing that out ADY....

I can honestly say, as a self educated working class guy, DAVE GODIN was one of the original levers that made me realise that the world was bigger than my council estate and the latest pair of Doctor Martens I craved.

Education is power.

Right on now, as DAVE GODIN would say!

[Guest]

The missus and I were there also (as you know) Although sad, it was a most unusual heartwarming funeral. Dave would have approved. And "Working Class Hero" was apt, don`t you think?

" They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool , Till you're so f*****g crazy you can't follow their rules "

Malc Burton

[macca]

Then he buggers it up with 'you're still f**** peasants as far as I can see'.

That is an elitist statement in my eyes, unless it's meant to be taken in an allegorical way.

I often wonder if he'd still espouse revolutionary politics were he still alive, but this is about

DG not JL, so I'll stop my farting in church.

[Little-stevie]

Thanks for pointing that out ADY....

I can honestly say, as a self educated working class guy, DAVE GODIN was one of the original levers that made me realise that the world was bigger than my council estate and the latest pair of Doctor Martens I craved.

Education is power.

Right on now, as DAVE GODIN would say!

Quality post Pete..

[Pete S]

You know, I sense somewhat of a theme emanating here. Certain people make statements, encapsulating their views. If other people come back and make serious arguments against those positions, the debates then grind to a halt and the opposing position is lambasted as not being democratic and supposedly not wanting to hear alternative positons...

I should go back and read it all again if I were you, I said I would close the thread if people didn't stop making personal attacks and snide remarks aimed at me, not because people disagreed with me.

If I make a forceful statement about something it's because I have to stand up against the bullies and self-righteous brothers who constantly tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Pete S

[Pete S]

Whether you or anybody else dislikes his writing or not is irrelevant.

No it's not, it's the absolute crux of the comment I made, I said I didn't care for his writing and his opinions do not influence me and that's when you got on your soapbox and express(ed) utter amazement that I didn't go along with your thoughts on the same subject.

Like everyone else, I religiously read Dave's writing in both Blues & Soul and Black Music and really enjoyed them. I read them now and I don't enjoy them.

Bottom line, end of.

[Guest Paul]

To put things into perspective, I think timing has a lot to do with it - and the fact that many people retain a passion for the music they discovered when they were teenagers.

For those reasons, Dave Godin will be fondly remembered because as an informed adult he was able to educate teenagers about soul music and open our minds to other things. He was in the right place at the right time.

Although he could be a bit elitist himself, he didn't talk down to young readers like many other writers did at the time.

I started reading B&S as a naieve schoolboy in the early 1970s, when Dave was almost forty, but somehow I could relate to him. That may be because he still had a youthful and idealistic spirit and didn't look down on teenagers.

I often wonder what Dave would think of some of the hypocritical and elitist people on today's soul scene who consider themselves to be important or superior because of their wealth. As a socialist, I would hope he'd find it offensive.

Money can't buy talent or taste.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

[Mark S]

His articles in Blues and Soul were long winded and boring I never realy understood his relevence .

[Chris L]

In response to points raised in other threads.

Dave Godin - jouranalistic doyen of the UK soul scene or over-rated wordsmith?

Discuss.

From my point of view I have some sympathy with Pete Smith's opinion.

As much as I admired Godin's enthusiasm, knowledge and contribution to the soul scene, particularly in the 70's, I often found his writing style impenetrable and at times mildly pretentious.

That is not to say that his place in the scene's history could be devalued - I'm talking about his style, and his style only.

I never really knew him, been in his presence a few times (back in the early 70s) his early writing was superb as a soul starved

Londoner circa 71/72 he's columns were great to read. Some of the later stuff got a bit weird and personal, I kinda lost interest

at that point. A highly talented man that's for sure.

[Sean Hampsey]

To put things into perspective, I think timing has a lot to do with it - and the fact that many people retain a passion for the music they discovered when they were teenagers.

For those reasons, Dave Godin will be fondly remembered because as an informed adult he was able to educate teenagers about soul music and open our minds to other things. He was in the right place at the right time.

Although he could be a bit elitist himself, he didn't talk down to young readers like many other writers did at the time.

I started reading B&S as a naieve schoolboy in the early 1970s, when Dave was almost forty, but somehow I could relate to him. That may be because he still had a youthful and idealistic spirit and didn't look down on teenagers.

I often wonder what Dave would think of some of the hypocritical and elitist people on today's soul scene who consider themselves to be important or superior because of their wealth. As a socialist, I would hope he'd find it offensive.

Money can't buy talent or taste.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

Nice post Paul

Like you, I read Dave's B&S and BE columns avidly, throughout the 70's.

Always thought his taste was (virtually) flawless and I eagerly sought out his every recommendation.

I might never have got to hear the likes of...

Jackie Shane "Any Other Way"

Larry Banks "I'm Not The One"

Debbie Taylor "I Don't Wanna Leave You"

Fred Hughes "Love Is Ending"

Jean Stanback "I Still Love You"

Jaibi "You Got Me"

Kenny Carter "Showdown"

Bessie Banks "Try To Leave Me"

Grover Mitchell "What Hurts"

Jean Plum "Look At The Boy"

Eddie & Ernie "I'm Going For Myself Now" and countless others, were it not for Dave, who championed all of these great sides.

After Malc Burton and I had Dave guest at our first Clifton Hall gig, we became very good friends and I learned more about his many 'non-soul' related thoughts, ideas and activities - I didn't subscribe to all of them - but here was a guy who rarely did anything by halves - if Dave got involved with anything he'd go all out for it, be that his stance on Animal Cruelty, Veganism, Civil Libertys, Censorship, Cinema, Aetheism, Politics, Anarchism, Socialism (or any other ism) including his love of a really good cup of Tea and a pack of Capstan full strength.

He was passionate (some might say extreme) about the things he believed in and I always respected that.

No doubt, Dave was a pioneer. Some might say he was at the right place at the right time, but Motown and Black American artists in general couldn't have wished for a better advocate, on this side of the pond, than Dave Godin.

Self taught (well read) and blessed with a great pair of ears, Dave was extremely influential in helping to shape my own musical direction as he continues to do today for thousands of others, via the legacy of the Kent Deep Soul Treasures series.

To be fair, and I'm sure he'd admit this, he was as much an observer as a 'shaper' and as a writer I felt he managed to crystalise and put into print 'our' love of the music in a way which many of us, as teenagers, were simply unable to do. He brought a wider perspective to his record reviews than anyone else was able to do at the time and his 'Significant Sides' column was precisely that - because the message in his review went far beyond the music in the grooves themselves.

I can see how some might find his style of writing not to their liking, because of this.

He did sometimes go beyond the pale to make a point.

But I loved it! - Having always felt that real Soul music should have much more to it than just a dance beat.

A message. A reason. A deeper side... And, of course, therein lies the Soul itself!

Dave passed away in October 2004 and at the funeral, on behalf of the Soul Scene, I was asked to say a few words to wish Dave goodbye.

Here's some of em!

"To me and my mates, as youngsters, it was really all about being Mod.

Wearing the right trousers, the right shirt and shoes, being at the right place with the right people 'in with the in crowd, being with your mates, pretty girls and having fun.

Soul Music was the theme music to our young lives, uptown, hip and cool, and - as important as that might be in itself - at the time it was only the writings of Dave Godin which elevated Soul Music to the level of an Artform... and I'll be forever grateful to him for that... because only then will it ever get the chance to endure through the ages".

In hindsight, a bit melodramatic, but in context it seemed right for the occasion.

There's a super tribute page on Toby Walkers SoulWalking website, recommended if anyone wants to read more about Dave. https://www.soulwalking.co.uk/Dave%20Godin.html

For interest, the playlist from the 'Farewell Doo' is as follows:-

Dave Godin's Farewell Doo

Significant Sides

Thursday 28th October 2004

6.00 pm - 9.00 pm - "Deep Soul" - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Ad Libs Nothings Worse Than Being Alone

Ronnie McNeir Wendy Is Gone

Jean Stanback I Still Love You

Loretta Williams I'm Missing You

Garnet Mimms Cry Baby

Barbara Lynn You'll Lose A Good Thing

Jackie Shane Any Other Way

Garnet Mimms It Was Easier To Hurt Her

Irma Thomas Anyone Who Knows What Love Is

Ujima Still Hooked On You

James Carr These Ain't Raindrops

Bob & Earl Don't Ever Leave Me

Tommi Young She Don't Have To See You

John Hamilton Take This Hurt Off Me

Barbara Hall Drop My Heart Off At The Door

Eddie & Ernie Thanks For Yesterday

Larry Banks I'm Not The One

Emotions Flowers

Emotions Somebody New

Arthur Conley I'm A Lonely Stranger

Mary Wells The Doctor

Dee Clark In These Very Tender Moments

Rick James Ebony Eyes

Debbie Taylor I Don't Want To Leave You

Ad Libs Giving Up

Maxine Brown All In My Mind

Maxine Brown It Seems You've Forsaken My Love

Doris Duke Feet Start Walking

Bessie Banks Do It Now

Johnny Baker Accept Me As I Am

Barbara Carr Think About It Baby

Irma Thomas Full Time Woman

Bettye LaVette Your Turn To Cry

Bessie Banks Try To Leave Me If You Can

Kenny Carter Showdown

Toussaint McCall Nothing Takes The Place Of You

Bessie Banks Go Now

Barbara Lewis Baby I'm Yours

Bettye LaVette Let Me Down Easy

Esther Phillips Home Is Where The Hatred Is

Latimore Let's Straighten Out

Freddie Hughes Sarah Mae

Bobby Bland Too Far Gone To Turn Around

Eddie Holman I'm Not Gonna Give Up

Jimmy Robins I Made It Over

Jaibi You Got Me

9.00 pm 'Greetings To The Tamla Motown Appreciation Society' single introduced by Ady Crosdell

Followed by Tamla Motown - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Elgins Heaven Must Have Sent You

Four Tops I Can't Help Myself

Four Tops Reach Out I'll Be There

Miracles Going To A Go-Go

Marvin Gaye I'll Be Doggone

Kim Weston Helpless

Edwin Starr Stop Her On Sight

Contours Just A Little Misunderstanding

9.30 pm - 10.30 pm Classic Northern Soul - John Vincent

Frankie Beverly If That's What You Wanted

Duke Browner Crying Over You

Four Perfections I'm Not Strong Enough

Fidels Try A Little Harder

Stanley Mitchell Get It Baby

Chandlers Your Love Makes Me Lonely

Mel Britt She'll Come Running Back

Nolan Porter If I Could Only Be Sure

Geri Granger I Go To Pieces

Ann Sexton You've Been Gone Too Long

Jackie Edwards I Feel So Bad

Magic Night If You And I Had Never Met

Ivories Please Stay

Sam Moultrie I'll Always Love You

Silky Hargreaves Keep Loving me Like You Do

Peoples Choice Savin' My Lovin' For You

Bobby Taylor I've Been Blessed

Linda Jones I Just Can't Live My Life

Lee Roy Tears

Yvonne Baker I Can't Change

Fantastic Johnny C Don't Depend On Me

Doni Burdick I Have Faith In You

Raymond Smith Seven Day Lover

Boogie Man Orchestra Lady Lady Lady

Marvin Holmes You Better Keep Her

Dobie Gray Honey You Can't Take It Back

10.30 pm - 00.20 am Classic Soul, Northern & Motown Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Temptations Ain't Too Proud To Beg

Joy Lovejoy In Orbit

Bobby Hebb Love Love Love

Babara Lynn Take Your Love And Run

Roy Hamilton Cracking Up Over You

Sandi Sheldon You're Gonna Make Me Love You

Moses Smith Girl Across The Street

Gene Chandler Nothing Can Stop Me

Barbara Randolph I Got A Feelin

Maurice Chestnut Too Darn Soulful

Barbara Acklin Love Makes A Woman

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Jackie Wilson I Get The Sweetest Feeling

Jerry Butler Moody Woman

Aretha Franklin I Say A Little Prayer

Carstairs It Really Hurts Me Girl

Ruby Andrews Just Loving You

James Fountain Seven Day Lover

Barbara Lynn Your Losing Me

Mary Lover Dear Lover

Dobie Gray The In Crowd

O Jays I Dig Your Act

Spellbinders Help Me

Doris Troy I'll Do Anything

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Jr. Walker Road Runner

Marvin Gaye Too Busy Thinking About My Baby

Jeff Perry Love Don't Come No Stronger

Fantastic Puzzles Come Back

Jerry Williams If You Ask Me

Billy Butler Right Track

Major Lance The Beat

Incredibles There Is Nothing Else To Say

Jackie Lee Oh My Darling

Bud Harper Mr Soul

Bobby Bland Call On Me

Darrell Banks Open The Door To Your Heart

Artistics I'm Gonna Miss You

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Quite a night!

One helluva guy!

Sean Hampsey

[Guest Polyvelts]

Just clicked on the link from Sean Hampsey's post and read the Bessie Banks letter, really good stuff - thanks for posting that link, I'd never read that before.

The one thing I really remember of all the words he wrote, and I dont have it to quote, but the jist of it was that if Black American Soul Music came directly as a byproduct of the experience of being

black in the US and all of the negative and terrible humiliations and suffering that went with that from slavery onwards, then if by the improvement of that situation the 'Soul' was lost from the black

american voice then to him that was something well worth paying that price for.

What is significant about this to me is that he couldnt hear the music that all of us who visit this site undoubtedly love without having compassion for the people who made it and always wanting to

see them getting their fair dues !

Good man !

Rob

[Jez Jones]

Nice post Paul

Like you, I read Dave's B&S and BE columns avidly, throughout the 70's.

Always thought his taste was (virtually) flawless and I eagerly sought out his every recommendation.

I might never have got to hear the likes of...

Jackie Shane "Any Other Way"

Larry Banks "I'm Not The One"

Debbie Taylor "I Don't Wanna Leave You"

Fred Hughes "Love Is Ending"

Jean Stanback "I Still Love You"

Jaibi "You Got Me"

Kenny Carter "Showdown"

Bessie Banks "Try To Leave Me"

Grover Mitchell "What Hurts"

Jean Plum "Look At The Boy"

Eddie & Ernie "I'm Going For Myself Now" and countless others, were it not for Dave, who championed all of these great sides.

After Malc Burton and I had Dave guest at our first Clifton Hall gig, we became very good friends and I learned more about his many 'non-soul' related thoughts, ideas and activities - I didn't subscribe to all of them - but here was a guy who rarely did anything by halves - if Dave got involved with anything he'd go all out for it, be that his stance on Animal Cruelty, Veganism, Civil Libertys, Censorship, Cinema, Aetheism, Politics, Anarchism, Socialism (or any other ism) including his love of a really good cup of Tea and a pack of Capstan full strength.

He was passionate (some might say extreme) about the things he believed in and I always respected that.

No doubt, Dave was a pioneer. Some might say he was at the right place at the right time, but Motown and Black American artists in general couldn't have wished for a better advocate, on this side of the pond, than Dave Godin.

Self taught (well read) and blessed with a great pair of ears, Dave was extremely influential in helping to shape my own musical direction as he continues to do today for thousands of others, via the legacy of the Kent Deep Soul Treasures series.

To be fair, and I'm sure he'd admit this, he was as much an observer as a 'shaper' and as a writer I felt he managed to crystalise and put into print 'our' love of the music in a way which many of us, as teenagers, were simply unable to do. He brought a wider perspective to his record reviews than anyone else was able to do at the time and his 'Significant Sides' column was precisely that - because the message in his review went far beyond the music in the grooves themselves.

I can see how some might find his style of writing not to their liking, because of this.

He did sometimes go beyond the pale to make a point.

But I loved it! - Having always felt that real Soul music should have much more to it than just a dance beat.

A message. A reason. A deeper side... And, of course, therein lies the Soul itself!

Dave passed away in October 2004 and at the funeral, on behalf of the Soul Scene, I was asked to say a few words to wish Dave goodbye.

Here's some of em!

"To me and my mates, as youngsters, it was really all about being Mod.

Wearing the right trousers, the right shirt and shoes, being at the right place with the right people 'in with the in crowd, being with your mates, pretty girls and having fun.

Soul Music was the theme music to our young lives, uptown, hip and cool, and - as important as that might be in itself - at the time it was only the writings of Dave Godin which elevated Soul Music to the level of an Artform... and I'll be forever grateful to him for that... because only then will it ever get the chance to endure through the ages".

In hindsight, a bit melodramatic, but in context it seemed right for the occasion.

There's a super tribute page on Toby Walkers SoulWalking website, recommended if anyone wants to read more about Dave. https://www.soulwalki...ve%20Godin.html

For interest, the playlist from the 'Farewell Doo' is as follows:-

Dave Godin's Farewell Doo

Significant Sides

Thursday 28th October 2004

6.00 pm - 9.00 pm - "Deep Soul" - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Ad Libs Nothings Worse Than Being Alone

Ronnie McNeir Wendy Is Gone

Jean Stanback I Still Love You

Loretta Williams I'm Missing You

Garnet Mimms Cry Baby

Barbara Lynn You'll Lose A Good Thing

Jackie Shane Any Other Way

Garnet Mimms It Was Easier To Hurt Her

Irma Thomas Anyone Who Knows What Love Is

Ujima Still Hooked On You

James Carr These Ain't Raindrops

Bob & Earl Don't Ever Leave Me

Tommi Young She Don't Have To See You

John Hamilton Take This Hurt Off Me

Barbara Hall Drop My Heart Off At The Door

Eddie & Ernie Thanks For Yesterday

Larry Banks I'm Not The One

Emotions Flowers

Emotions Somebody New

Arthur Conley I'm A Lonely Stranger

Mary Wells The Doctor

Dee Clark In These Very Tender Moments

Rick James Ebony Eyes

Debbie Taylor I Don't Want To Leave You

Ad Libs Giving Up

Maxine Brown All In My Mind

Maxine Brown It Seems You've Forsaken My Love

Doris Duke Feet Start Walking

Bessie Banks Do It Now

Johnny Baker Accept Me As I Am

Barbara Carr Think About It Baby

Irma Thomas Full Time Woman

Bettye LaVette Your Turn To Cry

Bessie Banks Try To Leave Me If You Can

Kenny Carter Showdown

Toussaint McCall Nothing Takes The Place Of You

Bessie Banks Go Now

Barbara Lewis Baby I'm Yours

Bettye LaVette Let Me Down Easy

Esther Phillips Home Is Where The Hatred Is

Latimore Let's Straighten Out

Freddie Hughes Sarah Mae

Bobby Bland Too Far Gone To Turn Around

Eddie Holman I'm Not Gonna Give Up

Jimmy Robins I Made It Over

Jaibi You Got Me

9.00 pm 'Greetings To The Tamla Motown Appreciation Society' single introduced by Ady Crosdell

Followed by Tamla Motown - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Elgins Heaven Must Have Sent You

Four Tops I Can't Help Myself

Four Tops Reach Out I'll Be There

Miracles Going To A Go-Go

Marvin Gaye I'll Be Doggone

Kim Weston Helpless

Edwin Starr Stop Her On Sight

Contours Just A Little Misunderstanding

9.30 pm - 10.30 pm Classic Northern Soul - John Vincent

Frankie Beverly If That's What You Wanted

Duke Browner Crying Over You

Four Perfections I'm Not Strong Enough

Fidels Try A Little Harder

Stanley Mitchell Get It Baby

Chandlers Your Love Makes Me Lonely

Mel Britt She'll Come Running Back

Nolan Porter If I Could Only Be Sure

Geri Granger I Go To Pieces

Ann Sexton You've Been Gone Too Long

Jackie Edwards I Feel So Bad

Magic Night If You And I Had Never Met

Ivories Please Stay

Sam Moultrie I'll Always Love You

Silky Hargreaves Keep Loving me Like You Do

Peoples Choice Savin' My Lovin' For You

Bobby Taylor I've Been Blessed

Linda Jones I Just Can't Live My Life

Lee Roy Tears

Yvonne Baker I Can't Change

Fantastic Johnny C Don't Depend On Me

Doni Burdick I Have Faith In You

Raymond Smith Seven Day Lover

Boogie Man Orchestra Lady Lady Lady

Marvin Holmes You Better Keep Her

Dobie Gray Honey You Can't Take It Back

10.30 pm - 00.20 am Classic Soul, Northern & Motown Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Temptations Ain't Too Proud To Beg

Joy Lovejoy In Orbit

Bobby Hebb Love Love Love

Babara Lynn Take Your Love And Run

Roy Hamilton Cracking Up Over You

Sandi Sheldon You're Gonna Make Me Love You

Moses Smith Girl Across The Street

Gene Chandler Nothing Can Stop Me

Barbara Randolph I Got A Feelin

Maurice Chestnut Too Darn Soulful

Barbara Acklin Love Makes A Woman

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Jackie Wilson I Get The Sweetest Feeling

Jerry Butler Moody Woman

Aretha Franklin I Say A Little Prayer

Carstairs It Really Hurts Me Girl

Ruby Andrews Just Loving You

James Fountain Seven Day Lover

Barbara Lynn Your Losing Me

Mary Lover Dear Lover

Dobie Gray The In Crowd

O Jays I Dig Your Act

Spellbinders Help Me

Doris Troy I'll Do Anything

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Jr. Walker Road Runner

Marvin Gaye Too Busy Thinking About My Baby

Jeff Perry Love Don't Come No Stronger

Fantastic Puzzles Come Back

Jerry Williams If You Ask Me

Billy Butler Right Track

Major Lance The Beat

Incredibles There Is Nothing Else To Say

Jackie Lee Oh My Darling

Bud Harper Mr Soul

Bobby Bland Call On Me

Darrell Banks Open The Door To Your Heart

Artistics I'm Gonna Miss You

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Quite a night!

One helluva guy!

Sean Hampsey

Wow ,if I may be so bold as to comment,---What a wonderful and diverse playlist. Covers quite a wide spectrum of 'soul' Very fitting indeed

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I have posted an article on there addressing TONY ROUNCE'S question as to what cultural relevance is held by the 60s Soul originals and their pop cover counterparts.

I'm going to read it again tonight just before I go to bed, I'm sure it'll have me in the land of nod in no time at all...

[Pete S]

I'm going to read it again tonight just before I go to bed, I'm sure it'll have me in the land of nod in no time at all...

Never mind, was trying to post a picture

Edited July 28, 2009 by Pete S

[Guest]

I should go back and read it all again if I were you, I said I would close the thread if people didn't stop making personal attacks and snide remarks aimed at me, not because people disagreed with me.

If I make a forceful statement about something it's because I have to stand up against the bullies and self-righteous brothers who constantly tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

I honestly think you let this stuff get to you too much, mate. There is nothing that deep in that thread, I've been a long time contributor to certain Football Forums where the level of seriously structured personal attacks and vitriol hurled about, makes Soul Source look like a genteel Vicars Knees up. That is no idle comment, I am being absolutely serious. When you start getting countless anonymous phone calls and physical threats is when you get a little concerned, but this is just a bun fight in comparison.

Back to the Vicarage....

TONY'S just made a joky remark about the article I wrote sending him to sleep but that just made me grin and it certainly would not make me feel like closing a thread!

You know one of the things I think you could learn from DAVE GODIN was something he understood intrinsically. That if you put yourself up on a platform, you've got to be prepared to be shot down. Sometimes people's opposition to our ideas can seem sarcastic, spiteful and unpleasant. Sometimes the impression we are being victimised, increases - particularly when we make constant forrays into the realms of public debate. Quite often, we are over estimating the level of spite intended by others - we all get very precious about our ideas at some time or another!

As for 'bullies and self righteous brothers', your own tone is very stringent at times but I would not label you as a self righteous bully. The stuff that has emanted from the root of your original posting has been entertaining and interesting. That is all that matters in the world of cyber debate.

Peace.

Edited July 28, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

I'm going to read it again tonight just before I go to bed, I'm sure it'll have me in the land of nod in no time at all...

Things could have turned out worse, Tony...

You could have been MICHAEL JACKSON, squandered hundreds of millions of dollars and get put to bed by a 'Quack' Doctor injecting your arse with coma inducing narcotics!

Instead you can gently drift off absorbing my article, happy days...

[Guest]

Nice post Paul

Like you, I read Dave's B&S and BE columns avidly, throughout the 70's.

Always thought his taste was (virtually) flawless and I eagerly sought out his every recommendation.

I might never have got to hear the likes of...

Jackie Shane "Any Other Way"

Larry Banks "I'm Not The One"

Debbie Taylor "I Don't Wanna Leave You"

Fred Hughes "Love Is Ending"

Jean Stanback "I Still Love You"

Jaibi "You Got Me"

Kenny Carter "Showdown"

Bessie Banks "Try To Leave Me"

Grover Mitchell "What Hurts"

Jean Plum "Look At The Boy"

Eddie & Ernie "I'm Going For Myself Now" and countless others, were it not for Dave, who championed all of these great sides.

After Malc Burton and I had Dave guest at our first Clifton Hall gig, we became very good friends and I learned more about his many 'non-soul' related thoughts, ideas and activities - I didn't subscribe to all of them - but here was a guy who rarely did anything by halves - if Dave got involved with anything he'd go all out for it, be that his stance on Animal Cruelty, Veganism, Civil Libertys, Censorship, Cinema, Aetheism, Politics, Anarchism, Socialism (or any other ism) including his love of a really good cup of Tea and a pack of Capstan full strength.

He was passionate (some might say extreme) about the things he believed in and I always respected that.

No doubt, Dave was a pioneer. Some might say he was at the right place at the right time, but Motown and Black American artists in general couldn't have wished for a better advocate, on this side of the pond, than Dave Godin.

Self taught (well read) and blessed with a great pair of ears, Dave was extremely influential in helping to shape my own musical direction as he continues to do today for thousands of others, via the legacy of the Kent Deep Soul Treasures series.

To be fair, and I'm sure he'd admit this, he was as much an observer as a 'shaper' and as a writer I felt he managed to crystalise and put into print 'our' love of the music in a way which many of us, as teenagers, were simply unable to do. He brought a wider perspective to his record reviews than anyone else was able to do at the time and his 'Significant Sides' column was precisely that - because the message in his review went far beyond the music in the grooves themselves.

I can see how some might find his style of writing not to their liking, because of this.

He did sometimes go beyond the pale to make a point.

But I loved it! - Having always felt that real Soul music should have much more to it than just a dance beat.

A message. A reason. A deeper side... And, of course, therein lies the Soul itself!

Dave passed away in October 2004 and at the funeral, on behalf of the Soul Scene, I was asked to say a few words to wish Dave goodbye.

Here's some of em!

"To me and my mates, as youngsters, it was really all about being Mod.

Wearing the right trousers, the right shirt and shoes, being at the right place with the right people 'in with the in crowd, being with your mates, pretty girls and having fun.

Soul Music was the theme music to our young lives, uptown, hip and cool, and - as important as that might be in itself - at the time it was only the writings of Dave Godin which elevated Soul Music to the level of an Artform... and I'll be forever grateful to him for that... because only then will it ever get the chance to endure through the ages".

In hindsight, a bit melodramatic, but in context it seemed right for the occasion.

There's a super tribute page on Toby Walkers SoulWalking website, recommended if anyone wants to read more about Dave. https://www.soulwalki...ve%20Godin.html

For interest, the playlist from the 'Farewell Doo' is as follows:-

Dave Godin's Farewell Doo

Significant Sides

Thursday 28th October 2004

6.00 pm - 9.00 pm - "Deep Soul" - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Ad Libs Nothings Worse Than Being Alone

Ronnie McNeir Wendy Is Gone

Jean Stanback I Still Love You

Loretta Williams I'm Missing You

Garnet Mimms Cry Baby

Barbara Lynn You'll Lose A Good Thing

Jackie Shane Any Other Way

Garnet Mimms It Was Easier To Hurt Her

Irma Thomas Anyone Who Knows What Love Is

Ujima Still Hooked On You

James Carr These Ain't Raindrops

Bob & Earl Don't Ever Leave Me

Tommi Young She Don't Have To See You

John Hamilton Take This Hurt Off Me

Barbara Hall Drop My Heart Off At The Door

Eddie & Ernie Thanks For Yesterday

Larry Banks I'm Not The One

Emotions Flowers

Emotions Somebody New

Arthur Conley I'm A Lonely Stranger

Mary Wells The Doctor

Dee Clark In These Very Tender Moments

Rick James Ebony Eyes

Debbie Taylor I Don't Want To Leave You

Ad Libs Giving Up

Maxine Brown All In My Mind

Maxine Brown It Seems You've Forsaken My Love

Doris Duke Feet Start Walking

Bessie Banks Do It Now

Johnny Baker Accept Me As I Am

Barbara Carr Think About It Baby

Irma Thomas Full Time Woman

Bettye LaVette Your Turn To Cry

Bessie Banks Try To Leave Me If You Can

Kenny Carter Showdown

Toussaint McCall Nothing Takes The Place Of You

Bessie Banks Go Now

Barbara Lewis Baby I'm Yours

Bettye LaVette Let Me Down Easy

Esther Phillips Home Is Where The Hatred Is

Latimore Let's Straighten Out

Freddie Hughes Sarah Mae

Bobby Bland Too Far Gone To Turn Around

Eddie Holman I'm Not Gonna Give Up

Jimmy Robins I Made It Over

Jaibi You Got Me

9.00 pm 'Greetings To The Tamla Motown Appreciation Society' single introduced by Ady Crosdell

Followed by Tamla Motown - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Elgins Heaven Must Have Sent You

Four Tops I Can't Help Myself

Four Tops Reach Out I'll Be There

Miracles Going To A Go-Go

Marvin Gaye I'll Be Doggone

Kim Weston Helpless

Edwin Starr Stop Her On Sight

Contours Just A Little Misunderstanding

9.30 pm - 10.30 pm Classic Northern Soul - John Vincent

Frankie Beverly If That's What You Wanted

Duke Browner Crying Over You

Four Perfections I'm Not Strong Enough

Fidels Try A Little Harder

Stanley Mitchell Get It Baby

Chandlers Your Love Makes Me Lonely

Mel Britt She'll Come Running Back

Nolan Porter If I Could Only Be Sure

Geri Granger I Go To Pieces

Ann Sexton You've Been Gone Too Long

Jackie Edwards I Feel So Bad

Magic Night If You And I Had Never Met

Ivories Please Stay

Sam Moultrie I'll Always Love You

Silky Hargreaves Keep Loving me Like You Do

Peoples Choice Savin' My Lovin' For You

Bobby Taylor I've Been Blessed

Linda Jones I Just Can't Live My Life

Lee Roy Tears

Yvonne Baker I Can't Change

Fantastic Johnny C Don't Depend On Me

Doni Burdick I Have Faith In You

Raymond Smith Seven Day Lover

Boogie Man Orchestra Lady Lady Lady

Marvin Holmes You Better Keep Her

Dobie Gray Honey You Can't Take It Back

10.30 pm - 00.20 am Classic Soul, Northern & Motown Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Temptations Ain't Too Proud To Beg

Joy Lovejoy In Orbit

Bobby Hebb Love Love Love

Babara Lynn Take Your Love And Run

Roy Hamilton Cracking Up Over You

Sandi Sheldon You're Gonna Make Me Love You

Moses Smith Girl Across The Street

Gene Chandler Nothing Can Stop Me

Barbara Randolph I Got A Feelin

Maurice Chestnut Too Darn Soulful

Barbara Acklin Love Makes A Woman

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Jackie Wilson I Get The Sweetest Feeling

Jerry Butler Moody Woman

Aretha Franklin I Say A Little Prayer

Carstairs It Really Hurts Me Girl

Ruby Andrews Just Loving You

James Fountain Seven Day Lover

Barbara Lynn Your Losing Me

Mary Lover Dear Lover

Dobie Gray The In Crowd

O Jays I Dig Your Act

Spellbinders Help Me

Doris Troy I'll Do Anything

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Jr. Walker Road Runner

Marvin Gaye Too Busy Thinking About My Baby

Jeff Perry Love Don't Come No Stronger

Fantastic Puzzles Come Back

Jerry Williams If You Ask Me

Billy Butler Right Track

Major Lance The Beat

Incredibles There Is Nothing Else To Say

Jackie Lee Oh My Darling

Bud Harper Mr Soul

Bobby Bland Call On Me

Darrell Banks Open The Door To Your Heart

Artistics I'm Gonna Miss You

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Quite a night!

One helluva guy!

Sean Hampsey

A magnificent contribution, Sean.

There is no melodrama in the comments you made, regarding the elevation of American Soul Music as an 'Art form'.

It truly did and does constitute one of the finest 'modern art' forms of the 20th Century. DAVE GODIN felt this deep in his bones, heart and Soul. The way he transposed those emotions into text, was a an extremely important development within the overall appreciation of Soul in the UK.

You

[Guest]

Nice post Paul

Like you, I read Dave's B&S and BE columns avidly, throughout the 70's.

Always thought his taste was (virtually) flawless and I eagerly sought out his every recommendation.

I might never have got to hear the likes of...

Jackie Shane "Any Other Way"

Larry Banks "I'm Not The One"

Debbie Taylor "I Don't Wanna Leave You"

Fred Hughes "Love Is Ending"

Jean Stanback "I Still Love You"

Jaibi "You Got Me"

Kenny Carter "Showdown"

Bessie Banks "Try To Leave Me"

Grover Mitchell "What Hurts"

Jean Plum "Look At The Boy"

Eddie & Ernie "I'm Going For Myself Now" and countless others, were it not for Dave, who championed all of these great sides.

After Malc Burton and I had Dave guest at our first Clifton Hall gig, we became very good friends and I learned more about his many 'non-soul' related thoughts, ideas and activities - I didn't subscribe to all of them - but here was a guy who rarely did anything by halves - if Dave got involved with anything he'd go all out for it, be that his stance on Animal Cruelty, Veganism, Civil Libertys, Censorship, Cinema, Aetheism, Politics, Anarchism, Socialism (or any other ism) including his love of a really good cup of Tea and a pack of Capstan full strength.

He was passionate (some might say extreme) about the things he believed in and I always respected that.

No doubt, Dave was a pioneer. Some might say he was at the right place at the right time, but Motown and Black American artists in general couldn't have wished for a better advocate, on this side of the pond, than Dave Godin.

Self taught (well read) and blessed with a great pair of ears, Dave was extremely influential in helping to shape my own musical direction as he continues to do today for thousands of others, via the legacy of the Kent Deep Soul Treasures series.

To be fair, and I'm sure he'd admit this, he was as much an observer as a 'shaper' and as a writer I felt he managed to crystalise and put into print 'our' love of the music in a way which many of us, as teenagers, were simply unable to do. He brought a wider perspective to his record reviews than anyone else was able to do at the time and his 'Significant Sides' column was precisely that - because the message in his review went far beyond the music in the grooves themselves.

I can see how some might find his style of writing not to their liking, because of this.

He did sometimes go beyond the pale to make a point.

But I loved it! - Having always felt that real Soul music should have much more to it than just a dance beat.

A message. A reason. A deeper side... And, of course, therein lies the Soul itself!

Dave passed away in October 2004 and at the funeral, on behalf of the Soul Scene, I was asked to say a few words to wish Dave goodbye.

Here's some of em!

"To me and my mates, as youngsters, it was really all about being Mod.

Wearing the right trousers, the right shirt and shoes, being at the right place with the right people 'in with the in crowd, being with your mates, pretty girls and having fun.

Soul Music was the theme music to our young lives, uptown, hip and cool, and - as important as that might be in itself - at the time it was only the writings of Dave Godin which elevated Soul Music to the level of an Artform... and I'll be forever grateful to him for that... because only then will it ever get the chance to endure through the ages".

In hindsight, a bit melodramatic, but in context it seemed right for the occasion.

There's a super tribute page on Toby Walkers SoulWalking website, recommended if anyone wants to read more about Dave. https://www.soulwalki...ve%20Godin.html

For interest, the playlist from the 'Farewell Doo' is as follows:-

Dave Godin's Farewell Doo

Significant Sides

Thursday 28th October 2004

6.00 pm - 9.00 pm - "Deep Soul" - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Ad Libs Nothings Worse Than Being Alone

Ronnie McNeir Wendy Is Gone

Jean Stanback I Still Love You

Loretta Williams I'm Missing You

Garnet Mimms Cry Baby

Barbara Lynn You'll Lose A Good Thing

Jackie Shane Any Other Way

Garnet Mimms It Was Easier To Hurt Her

Irma Thomas Anyone Who Knows What Love Is

Ujima Still Hooked On You

James Carr These Ain't Raindrops

Bob & Earl Don't Ever Leave Me

Tommi Young She Don't Have To See You

John Hamilton Take This Hurt Off Me

Barbara Hall Drop My Heart Off At The Door

Eddie & Ernie Thanks For Yesterday

Larry Banks I'm Not The One

Emotions Flowers

Emotions Somebody New

Arthur Conley I'm A Lonely Stranger

Mary Wells The Doctor

Dee Clark In These Very Tender Moments

Rick James Ebony Eyes

Debbie Taylor I Don't Want To Leave You

Ad Libs Giving Up

Maxine Brown All In My Mind

Maxine Brown It Seems You've Forsaken My Love

Doris Duke Feet Start Walking

Bessie Banks Do It Now

Johnny Baker Accept Me As I Am

Barbara Carr Think About It Baby

Irma Thomas Full Time Woman

Bettye LaVette Your Turn To Cry

Bessie Banks Try To Leave Me If You Can

Kenny Carter Showdown

Toussaint McCall Nothing Takes The Place Of You

Bessie Banks Go Now

Barbara Lewis Baby I'm Yours

Bettye LaVette Let Me Down Easy

Esther Phillips Home Is Where The Hatred Is

Latimore Let's Straighten Out

Freddie Hughes Sarah Mae

Bobby Bland Too Far Gone To Turn Around

Eddie Holman I'm Not Gonna Give Up

Jimmy Robins I Made It Over

Jaibi You Got Me

9.00 pm 'Greetings To The Tamla Motown Appreciation Society' single introduced by Ady Crosdell

Followed by Tamla Motown - Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Elgins Heaven Must Have Sent You

Four Tops I Can't Help Myself

Four Tops Reach Out I'll Be There

Miracles Going To A Go-Go

Marvin Gaye I'll Be Doggone

Kim Weston Helpless

Edwin Starr Stop Her On Sight

Contours Just A Little Misunderstanding

9.30 pm - 10.30 pm Classic Northern Soul - John Vincent

Frankie Beverly If That's What You Wanted

Duke Browner Crying Over You

Four Perfections I'm Not Strong Enough

Fidels Try A Little Harder

Stanley Mitchell Get It Baby

Chandlers Your Love Makes Me Lonely

Mel Britt She'll Come Running Back

Nolan Porter If I Could Only Be Sure

Geri Granger I Go To Pieces

Ann Sexton You've Been Gone Too Long

Jackie Edwards I Feel So Bad

Magic Night If You And I Had Never Met

Ivories Please Stay

Sam Moultrie I'll Always Love You

Silky Hargreaves Keep Loving me Like You Do

Peoples Choice Savin' My Lovin' For You

Bobby Taylor I've Been Blessed

Linda Jones I Just Can't Live My Life

Lee Roy Tears

Yvonne Baker I Can't Change

Fantastic Johnny C Don't Depend On Me

Doni Burdick I Have Faith In You

Raymond Smith Seven Day Lover

Boogie Man Orchestra Lady Lady Lady

Marvin Holmes You Better Keep Her

Dobie Gray Honey You Can't Take It Back

10.30 pm - 00.20 am Classic Soul, Northern & Motown Sean Hampsey & Kev Briscoe

Temptations Ain't Too Proud To Beg

Joy Lovejoy In Orbit

Bobby Hebb Love Love Love

Babara Lynn Take Your Love And Run

Roy Hamilton Cracking Up Over You

Sandi Sheldon You're Gonna Make Me Love You

Moses Smith Girl Across The Street

Gene Chandler Nothing Can Stop Me

Barbara Randolph I Got A Feelin

Maurice Chestnut Too Darn Soulful

Barbara Acklin Love Makes A Woman

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Jackie Wilson I Get The Sweetest Feeling

Jerry Butler Moody Woman

Aretha Franklin I Say A Little Prayer

Carstairs It Really Hurts Me Girl

Ruby Andrews Just Loving You

James Fountain Seven Day Lover

Barbara Lynn Your Losing Me

Mary Lover Dear Lover

Dobie Gray The In Crowd

O Jays I Dig Your Act

Spellbinders Help Me

Doris Troy I'll Do Anything

Velvelettes These Things Will Keep Me Loving You

Jr. Walker Road Runner

Marvin Gaye Too Busy Thinking About My Baby

Jeff Perry Love Don't Come No Stronger

Fantastic Puzzles Come Back

Jerry Williams If You Ask Me

Billy Butler Right Track

Major Lance The Beat

Incredibles There Is Nothing Else To Say

Jackie Lee Oh My Darling

Bud Harper Mr Soul

Bobby Bland Call On Me

Darrell Banks Open The Door To Your Heart

Artistics I'm Gonna Miss You

Bettye Swann Make Me Yours

Quite a night!

One helluva guy!

Sean Hampsey

A magnificent contribution, Sean.

There is no melodrama in the comments you made, regarding the elevation of American Soul Music as an 'Art form'.

It truly did and does constitute one of the finest 'modern art' forms of the 20th Century. DAVE GODIN felt this deep in his bones, heart and Soul. The way he transposed those emotions into text, was a an extremely important development within the overall appreciation of Soul in the UK.

You did