Praise The Lord - It's Back

[Pete S]

And why did you again? NOTHING to do with topic?

Thanks Ian.

Exactly.

Shouldn't it be in members feedback?

[Little-stevie]

I closed the thread because it had changed from a debate about two versions of a song into a debate about ME, and specifically, ME not enjoying Dave Godin's writing style, and believe it or not, I am not alone in this opinion, however I said to you if you want to carry on this debate then open a thread about it - something you didn't bother to do. I have to put up with more crap than most people on this site because I refuse to be a sheep and agree with everything I'm "supposed" to agree with, and if I want to close a thread because I can see it turning into a personal attack on me, then thats my pergoative.

I repeat, open a debate about dave Godin and I doubt you will hear any dissenting voices because they are all frightened to give their real opinion in case they get tied to the ducking stool and submerged in water until they admit they are a witch.

Is that Witch or bitch Pete

Would like to read some of Daves comments from early Blues and Soul, are they on-line anyplace??

Sorry off topic but That Chorley Bloke or Dirty Red from Perth as we call him

[Guest]

I closed the thread because it had changed from a debate about two versions of a song into a debate about ME, and specifically, ME not enjoying Dave Godin's writing style, and believe it or not, I am not alone in this opinion, however I said to you if you want to carry on this debate then open a thread about it - something you didn't bother to do. I have to put up with more crap than most people on this site because I refuse to be a sheep and agree with everything I'm "supposed" to agree with, and if I want to close a thread because I can see it turning into a personal attack on me, then thats my pergoative.

I repeat, open a debate about dave Godin and I doubt you will hear any dissenting voices because they are all frightened to give their real opinion in case they get tied to the ducking stool and submerged in water until they admit they are a witch.

Sorry, but it did not turn into a debate about DAVE GODIN and again, you are displaying the exact attitude that I am referring to. It is one which states 'if the parameters of a debate are not to my exact approval' I will refuse to contribute to the debate. Indeed if I started it, I will close it. Strangely, you seem to be imagining that you have something very controversial to say, which from my viewpoint you do not. You merely had an opposing perspective and in debates, people stand and defend their perspectives, they do not run away and sulk because others disagree with them. It's like the kids who used to take their balls home because they wern't on the winning side! I am sorry if you feel vicitimised for some reason but after reading the threads for a fourth time this morning, I would say you are merely finding it difficult to accept other people's positions and viewpoints. Fact: In general population terms, there are a clear majority of people who prefer the pop versions to the soul originals, so you are hardly the voice of radicalism here are you?

QUOTE: 'Fucking hell, what is it with you people??'

Nobody else from either position saw need to become as frustrated as that. Only YOU used that level of language in the debate.

I point out that it was also YOU who actually opened up the debate to include DAVE GODIN when you responded to JAZZBO'S joky mention of DAVE'S ghost and his old review of BESSIE BANKS. Being that BESSY BANKS and THE MOODY BLUES versions were now strong subject matter in the debate, it was perfectly acceptable for somebody to request reference to DAVE GODIN'S original review of BESSIE BANKS, being we all know that historically he did champion this release over the pop cover on creative merit. DAVE was a very influential writer and an avid champion of the development of Soul in the UK, as such it was a fair shout for somebody to request a re-examination of his original assessments.

Sadly nobody did post it - they hardly had time did they? - because you then decided to dismiss anything written by GODIN as irrelevant and then you go and close the debate when somebody challenges that! I have no wish to open a specific thread on DAVE GODIN or I would do. What I wanted to do was participate in a very good debate about the values, both creatively and culturally of original soul 60s soul releases as opposed to pop covers and you denied us that opportunity.

Anybody with a reasonable knowldege of this subject would surely find it utterly reasonable that DAVE GODIN'S name appeared at sometime in such a debate, given his passionate positions and writings on this very subject.

You however, seem to be taking the following position.

'You can have a debate about the merits of soul originals as opposed to pop covers in the 60s as long as you do not involve the viewpoints of respected and acclaimed 60s Writers, of whom I dislike their style or opionons, at any time. If you refer to anybody I do not like/respect/admire/approve of etc, etc, I will close the debate'.

I am very sorry mate, but that is censorship and I again suggest you need to absorb some of DAVE GODIN'S ( And others) writings on free speech, censorship and human rights.

Your position is is Stalinistic and would certainly have been recognised as such by DAVE GODIN! On reflection, it is perhaps not surprising that you dislike his writings!

Edited July 24, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Pete S]

Sorry, but it did not turn into a debate about DAVE GODIN and again, you are displaying the exact attitude that I am referring to. It is one which states 'if the parameters of a debate are not to my exact approval' I will refuse to contribute to the debate. Indeed if I started it, I will close it. Strangely, you seem to be imagining that you have something very controversial to say, which from my viewpoint you do not. You merely had an opposing perspective and in debates, people stand and defend their persepctives, they do not run away and sulk because others disagree with them. It's like the kids who used to take their balls home because they wern't on the winning side! I am sorry if you feel vicitmised for some reason but after reading the threads for a fourth time this morning, I would say you are merely finding it difficult to accept other people's positions and viewpoints. Fact: In general population terms, there are a clear majority of people who prefer the pop versions to the soul originals, so you are hardly the voice of radicalism here are you?

QUOTE: 'Fucking hell, what is it with you people??'

Nobody else from either position saw need to become as frustrated as that. Only YOU used that level of language in the debate.

I point out that it was also YOU who actually opened up the debate to include DAVE GODIN when you responded to JAZZBO'S joky mention of DAVE'S ghost and his old review of BESSIE BANKS. Being that BESSY BANKS and THE MOODY BLUES versions were now strong subject matter in the debate, it was perfectly acceptable for somebody to request reference to DAVE GODIN'S original review of BESSIE BANKS, being we all know that historically he did champion this release over the pop cover on creative merit. DAVE was a very influential writer and an avid champion of the development of Soul in the UK, as such it was a fair shout for somebody to request a re-examination of his original assessments.

Sadly nobody did post it - they hardly had time did they? - because you then decided to dismiss anything written by GODIN as irrelevant and then you go and close the debate when somebody challenges that! I have no wish to open a specific thread on DAVE GODIN or I would do. What I wanted to do was participate in a very good debate about the values, both creatively and culturally of original soul 60s soul covers as opposed to pop covers and you denied us that opportunity.

Anybody with a reasonable knowldege of this subject would surely find it utterly reasonable that DAVE GODIN'S name appeared at sometime in such a debate, given his passionate positions and writings on this very subject.

You however, seem to be taking the following position.

'You can have a debate about the merits of soul orignals as opposed to pop covers in the 60s as long as you do not involve the viewpoints of respected and acclaimed 60s Writers, of whom I dislike their style or opionons, at any time. If you refer to anybody I do not like/respect/admire/approve of etc, etc, I will close the debate'.

I am very sorry mate, but that is censorship and I again suggest you need to absorb some of DAVE GODIN'S ( And others) writings on free speech, censorship and human rights.

Your position is is Stalinistic and would certainly have been recognised as such by DAVE GODIN! On reflection, it is perhaps not surprising that you dislike his writings!

Like I said, open your own debate if you're that bothered about it, which you obviously are, stop hanging on my coat tails if I've nothing important/controversial/interesting to say. I was not going to leave the topic open so I could be your or anyone else's whipping boy. I dislike his writing because in a 2 page review of a track he'll spend 599 lines writing about African history and one about the actual track. OK?

And I don't use swear words without using an asterisk either.

[Pete S]

I've re-opened the topic just for you. If it turns into a personal attack on me again I'll close it again.

[Guest Bogue]

Thank god !...nice to see everything is now back up & running as it used too

Was worried this time though...it disapeared from all the search engines too

[Stuart Bower]

It`s been up for quite some time now.Where HAVE you all been? Glad to see you`re all back though..........

[Guest]

I've re-opened the topic just for you. If it turns into a personal attack on me again I'll close it again.

Thanks for that Pete, I'll check it out later. I dont think there was any level of personal attack on you though, or at least I can't find anything resembling such....I would have thought that after 18,000 posts you'd have had skin like a crocodile!

Edited July 24, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Pete S]

Thanks for that Pete, I'll check it out later. I dont think there was any level of personal attck on you though, or at least I can't find anything resembling such....I would have thought that after 18,000 posts you'd have had skin like a crocodile!

No I'm a tenderplant on the brink of meltdown

no, really...

[Guest]

Like I said, open your own debate if you're that bothered about it, which you obviously are, stop hanging on my coat tails if I've nothing important/controversial/interesting to say. I was not going to leave the topic open so I could be your or anyone else's whipping boy. I dislike his writing because in a 2 page review of a track he'll spend 599 lines writing about African history and one about the actual track. OK?

And I don't use swear words without using an asterisk either.

Perhaps it's because he grasped that the 'AMERICAN' Soul music we love is a distinct genetically linked strand of African history. The purveyors of American Soul are primarily of an AFRO-American descent and the music's roots can be traced organically back, through gospel and blues to the 'holler and shout' field refrains of the orginal African slaves brought to the USA in chains. The emotional depth of the music reflects this historic link and whilst I fully understand that there are many who are not in the slight bit interested in all of that, there are some of us who find it fascinating. DG most certainly opened up many eyes and hearts to this reality and in some respects that is his greatest legacy. One of the strangest aspects I have ever encountered on the Northern scene is the presence of several skins sporting NF tattoos at the Hinkley Niter back in the 80s.

I actually engaged with one of them in the toilets and it was most bizarre....This geezer had the tattoos, yet soul patches on his bomber. He very clearly did not truly grasp the significance of what Soul Music truly represents and if it was not for people like DG and others, there would be more of his ilk.

If you find all that boring, it is indeed your perogative but sometimes knowledge is wisdom and the appreciation of 60s American Soul, can only be increased via a full grasp of the muisc's social history and relevance.

All the best.

Edited July 25, 2009 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

Is that Witch or bitch Pete

Would like to read some of Daves comments from early Blues and Soul, are they on-line anyplace??

Sorry off topic but That Chorley Bloke or Dirty Red from Perth as we call him

No mate it's not CHORLEYBLOKE! He comes from Chorley, my name is Chorley, although my family do hail from that area originally too!

[Guest]

No mate it's not CHORLEYBLOKE! He comes from Chorley, my name is Chorley, although my family do hail from that area originally too!

Chorley not !

[Guest]

Is that Witch or bitch Pete

Would like to read some of Daves comments from early Blues and Soul, are they on-line anyplace??

Sorry off topic but That Chorley Bloke or Dirty Red from Perth as we call him

https://www.6ts.info/randy/tributes.htm

Have a read of DAVE'S tribute to RANDY C, I think it's a lovely piece and a nice introduction.

[arnie j]

Chorley not !

that med me laugh mate ! nice one

[dthedrug]

I closed the thread because it had changed from a debate about two versions of a song into a debate about ME, and specifically, ME not enjoying Dave Godin's writing style, and believe it or not, I am not alone in this opinion, however I said to you if you want to carry on this debate then open a thread about it - something you didn't bother to do. I have to put up with more crap than most people on this site because I refuse to be a sheep and agree with everything I'm "supposed" to agree with, and if I want to close a thread because I can see it turning into a personal attack on me, then that's my perogative.

I repeat, open a debate about Dave Godin and I doubt you will hear any dissenting voices because they are all frightened to give their real opinion in case they get tied to the ducking stool and submerged in water until they admit they are a witch.

What about JA covers you must agree there are some excellent Jamaican covers inspired in particular by Chicago's & Motown and we all Know the early roots are directly influenced by New Orleans RIFS, are Caribbean people whether living in the Treasure Isle or the UK did they not promote soul in the same way as white pop bands? not to mention those who tried to imitate the Blues was ELVIS n the early years inspired by the black people of Memphis in the same way my musical tastes came from my elder siblings, and youth sub culture they followed as such at the age 16 I was into reggae? one thing is for sure I bought the Uniques "ain't to proud to beg" before I ever heard the Temptations? and its also a fact that the records I relate to from say 67/8/9 are 50% different to my mate from Shepherds Bush? its all about what you herd and the experience of The moment that makes you like a sound? my Golden rule if sounds good and its danceable it gets my vote. 1910 Fruitgum and all DAVE KIL I hope you agree with me and the BOYS?

[Guest]

What about JA covers you must agree there are some excellent Jamaican covers inspired in particular by Chicago's & Motown and we all Know the early roots are directly influenced by New Orleans RIFS, are Caribbean people whether living in the Treasure Isle or the UK did they not promote soul in the same way as white pop bands? not to mention those who tried to imitate the Blues was ELVIS n the early years inspired by the black people of Memphis in the same way my musical tastes came from my elder siblings, and youth sub culture they followed as such at the age 16 I was into reggae? one thing is for sure I bought the Uniques "ain't to proud to beg" before I ever heard the Temptations? and its also a fact that the records I relate to from say 67/8/9 are 50% different to my mate from Shepherds Bush? its all about what you herd and the experience of The moment that makes you like a sound? my Golden rule if sounds good and its danceable it gets my vote. 1910 Fruitgum and all DAVE KIL I hope you agree with me and the BOYS?

This is an interesting point but I'm not sure whether to respond to it on here DAVE, or to go back to the original thread if it has been re-opened by PETE, what do you think lol!!!!

Just played an old 45, HONEY BOY'S version of 'Private Number' while I think about it and it is a nice version like many others. One I definetly prefer over the original Soul cut is

MARCIA GRIFFITHS version of ARETHA'S 'Sweet bitter love', going to dig that out now too! Mind you, the subject of Jamican soul covers and boots is definetly worth its own thread although I've just realised as I wrote that, there is already a forum specifically for that.

You are most certainly spot on in defining the New Orleans influence on Reggae - the best Soul example of that is probably ROBERT PARKER'S 'I caught you in a lie', a majestic record that carries the most perfect definition of what would become recognised worldwide as a chop-chop reggae guitar style. The popularity of this record amongst older Jamaicans is something you will clearly be aware of and its influence on the radio waves in JA was enormous.

Overall though, I still maintain most Soul originals are the superior records, irrespective of what record you heard first. I love SUSAN CADOGAN'S 'Hurt so good' because it sums up a period of my life in 70s dancehalls and I always preferred it over MILLIE JACKSON'S take, which I thought was the original! Then in America a few years ago, I heard KATIE LOVE AND THE 4 SHADES OF BLACK'S actual original and it knocked me off my feet, the best version by a country mile or more! (There is a clip of it on STEVE PLUMB's site at the moment for anybody who has not heard it, in the 'Rare Soul' section).

To sum up, I think there is actually a crucial difference though between these two strands, of which I think you'll probably acknowledge. On the whole, the vast majority of the reggae versions of Soul cuts were made AFTER the Soul originals were already sizeable pop or at least r/b hits.....The Jamaican producers listened out for the big black US tunes and adapted them to fit Carribean eardrums. Whereas a hell of a lot of the UK and US pop covers were actually hits before - or in a lot of cases, rather than - the Soul originals. Which takes us to TONY ROUNCE'S question 'So what do these records represent culturally?'.

I am now going to try and copy and paste this into the new re-opened thread and perhaps we can carry this subject on in there? lol!!!

[Pete S]

Chelsea skinheads Dave?

[Mike]

I am now going to try and copy and paste this into the new re-opened thread and perhaps we can carry this subject on in there? lol!!!

next time best to avoid taking a current thread down a completly different road

start a new topic up

Edited July 25, 2009 by mike
clearer