The Great Cd & Soul Swindle?

[Simsy]

CD's are crap. They skip. Get yourself an Ipod(skip free), plug it into the back of the mixer and you've got a million tunes at your fingertips. Via this medium, I shall be playing all of Ady, Keith and Butch's big coverups/acetates from the last 5 years down the 100 Club on Saturday.

link

That's obviously a joke right Matt?

[Guest dodger]

What on earth is Dodger on about?

link

I was just throwing a ridiculous future scenario into the thread. You lot started it.

[Guest Jamie]

On a final note who are we to judge people who present such venues as Drax and the format they use, as it's already been said if you don't agree with their methods then you don't have to go, Mr Rimmer, myself and many other DJ's simply choose to do it our way down the authentic route.

I have thought about this a great deal and have very much made a U - turn to my previous comments on similar posts, it's an honour to be part of this scene and to have access to the music we love on formats other than the real deal is simply awesome, it's a bit like saying if you don't own the originals then you can't possibly like the music or be part of it.......which in a word is total bollocks because if i sold up all the 45's i would still love the music...i guess it's about having soul as well as owning it. It might be a scene based on rare hard to find records but it ain't an exclusive club for those who own all the big records is it? it's the life blood sure, the roots and backbone as it's record driven but records rare or otherwise are played to take people to another place an emotion which we all need.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

link

A very, very, good post IMVHO, and an opinion I have held for a long time. People have their views, and rarely change or accept alternative angles on this particular topic. All the power to you for that

If you break the argument down into its simplest form, and then look at the reasoning behind vehemently attacking local venues and their choice of medium really does seem churlish at best.

I'm glad someone like yourself Mark, has been able to convey your point in such a way that some people will think twice and hopefully re-assess their stance.

Mark, you know the way I and Rich do things, very similar to yourself. That doesn't mean to say that I'm going to try and belittle or feel superior to someone who does it different than me. Getting angry about it just leaves me feeling bemused then amused.

We do have a choice, and through that choice we decide what venues we attend and what circle of people we socialise with. How other people choose shouldn't really affect our train of thought - simple really

Jamie

Edited June 22, 2005 by Jamie

[Mattbolton]

That's obviously a joke right Matt?  

link

Errmm.... No. I sold my Roy Hamilton and bought a spanking new Ipod mini especially. And gold plated connection leads to bolster the crisp sound quality.....

[Simsy]

Errmm.... No. I sold my Roy Hamilton and bought a spanking new Ipod mini especially. And gold plated connection leads to bolster the crisp sound quality.....

link

[Simsy]

Nah, I still think you're joking Matt. Not about owning the ipod, that's just fine and dandy in your front room, or maybe the Wheel Tappers & Shunters Social Club.

Can't think you'd be tinkering with the mixer on Saturday night though

You're a one!

[Mattbolton]

Nah, I still think you're joking Matt. 

link

Of course. Got a few things up my sleeve for Saturday. Namely a rabbit and a pack of cards. It'll at least entertain a few while I dish out my usual overdramatic anachronisms.

However, something has been bothering me for years. And that is I've listened to the quality of the small handful of Patrinell Stattens deteriorate substantially since they first turned up. And I'm positive that before long all the known copies are sadly gonna sound like a fry-up in a mess-hall to the point where they're unlistenable.

I love this song to bits like the rest of you. But what do we do when it dies, as, sonically, most copies are evidently suffering the inevitable wrath of the stylus ...

Are we gonna stop playing it altogether cos no-one has a real copy?

Just a thought. And this isn't exclusive to this record.....

Edited June 22, 2005 by mattbolton

[vnicepce]

CD's are crap. They skip. Via this medium, I shall be playing all of Ady, Keith and Butch's big coverups/acetates from the last 5 years down the 100 Club on Saturday.

link

so, can you get me a copy of 'I wanna know'-"Jean Carter"???

Re the debate over CDs and he 'heresy' of playing them a rare soul do's, I shall be selling 'Soul Inquisition' uniforms, they will have a torch emblem on the chest....seriously though, 'only playing the 'original vinyl' (recall 45s vs LPs??) is a way of keeping things exclusive to those who can afford to pay silly(?) prices for a vinyl disc-a kind of tyranny of capitalism, if you like...

....as has already been said, the most important thing is the Dancefloor, and the sounds that get us dancing..

[Cunnie]

We were talking about an internet radio show from home on the PC, not doing a gig from from the PC. 

I can just imagine in the future when people turn up with laptops - 'oh no mate, you shouldn't be playing off that G5 iBook, you should be playing off an original Sinclair ZX Spectrum' and there'll be all dealers sat round the edges with boxes of original 128k floppy disks.

Roger

link

Hi Dodger, was just tryin to give these guys a glimpse of what they'll be arguin about in 2020! see you in a bit on EMS.

[Guest martyn]

A few of us in east herts have been peddling a soul and ska do at the Hertford Marquee Club for about a year now. The DJ policy is vinyl only, although by my own admission this limits my playlist considerably. I stopped buying vinyl when prices soared. I think the real problem is the non affordability of the records.

Sure I agree our scene has been built on vinyl but if your only DJ'ing outlet is a small local do, spending vast sums on original vinyl records will not be for everyone. There will always be big name DJ's and collectors on the scene and I, for one,  would not be without them but trying to compete with these guys paying hundreds of pounds for singles is way beyond my pocket.

When you think that you can pay a tenner for a CD that might, conceivably contain  30 tracks worth £300 each do the math, how many of us can spend £9000 on records. Boots, acetetes and LP's are an option but even these mediums are frowned upon in certain quarters.

Summing up I think the big do's with the big DJ's will always be there for those that want a vinyl only policy but at the more parochial level of our scene such as our do and the one described at Drax I can't help but feel that the attendent crowd's enjoyment is paramount and the audio medium should be an irrelevance.

link

Why not play vinyl that doesnt cost £300?

Plenty of underplayed oldies & 'didnt quite make it' sounds from the 60s,70s &80s costing under £30 quid that would rocket to £300 in value if played.

[Cunnie]

We were talking about an internet radio show from home on the PC, not doing a gig from from the PC. 

I can just imagine in the future when people turn up with laptops - 'oh no mate, you shouldn't be playing off that G5 iBook, you should be playing off an original Sinclair ZX Spectrum' and there'll be all dealers sat round the edges with boxes of original 128k floppy disks.

Roger

link

Hi Dodger,

was just tryin to let these guys know what they'll be arguin about in 2020!

See you in a bit on EMS.

Lata, Mart...

[Ged Parker]

Re the debate over CDs and he 'heresy' of playing them a rare soul do's, I shall be selling 'Soul Inquisition' uniforms, they will have a torch emblem on the chest....seriously though, 'only playing the 'original vinyl' (recall 45s vs LPs??) is a way of keeping things exclusive to those who can afford to pay silly(?) prices for a vinyl disc-a kind of tyranny of capitalism, if you like...

link

what you on about tyranny ffs the only way to keep this scene fresh is to play original vinyl. I was gonna go on and on about the reasons why the playing out of CD's and reissues weaken the scene and make truely rare and fantastic records overexposed and tired but I realy can't be arsed.

[Guest dodger]

Hi Dodger, was just tryin to give these guys a glimpse of what they'll be arguin about in 2020! see you in a bit on EMS.

link

The only thing most of 'em then will be arguing about will be what their caskets should be made out of or which plot they want!!!

[Guest dodger]

what you on about tyranny ffs the only way to keep this scene fresh is to play original vinyl. I was gonna go on and on about the reasons why the playing out of CD's and reissues weaken the scene and make truely rare and fantastic records overexposed and tired but I realy can't be arsed.

link

Good, it saves me reading it and thinking 'what a load of shite, get a fucking life' . . .

[Ged Parker]

Good, it saves me reading it and thinking 'what a load of shite, get a fucking life' . . . 

link

you kill me

[Cunnie]

Good, it saves me reading it and thinking 'what a load of shite, get a fucking life' . . . 

link

C'mon Dodger, gotta get outa town quick. Overheard 2 geezers sayin there's 2 lynchings planned for tonight.

[Guest dodger]

C'mon Dodger, gotta get outa town quick. Overheard 2 geezers sayin there's 2 lynchings planned for tonight. 

link

It amazes me that people still bang on about this shit. Just do your own thing and let others do their own thing, it's a simple solution really.

Edited June 22, 2005 by dodger

[Guest Stuart T]

    It amazes me that people still bang on about this shit. Just do your own thing and let others do their own thing, it's a simple solution really.   

link

If we all adopted this laissez faire anything goes sort of attitude we'd have nothing to argue about, then where would we all be, eh?

[Guest dodger]

If we all adopted this laissez faire anything goes sort of attitude we'd have nothing to argue about, then where would we all be, eh? 

link

Away from our computers enjoying a proper life!!!

Maybe in the same way that people talk about playing underplayed records, someone should start an 'under-argued issue' thread instead of revisiting the same old 'played out' arguments

[Pete S]

However, something has been bothering me for years. And that is I've listened to the quality of the small handful of Patrinell Stattens deteriorate substantially since they first turned up. And I'm positive that before long all the known copies are sadly gonna sound like a fry-up in a mess-hall to the point where they're unlistenable. 

I love this song to bits like the rest of you. But what do we do when it dies, as, sonically,  most copies are evidently suffering the inevitable wrath of the stylus ...

Are we gonna stop playing it altogether cos no-one has a real copy?

link

Well let's hope so shall we 10th rate rubbish

[Pete S]

so, can you get me a copy of 'I wanna know'-"Jean Carter"???

link

I think I've got this?

[Simsy]

A few of us in east herts have been peddling a soul and ska do at the Hertford Marquee Club for about a year now. The DJ policy is vinyl only, although by my own admission this limits my playlist considerably. I stopped buying vinyl when prices soared. I think the real problem is the non affordability of the records.

Sure I agree our scene has been built on vinyl but if your only DJ'ing outlet is a small local do, spending vast sums on original vinyl records will not be for everyone. There will always be big name DJ's and collectors on the scene and I, for one, would not be without them but trying to compete with these guys paying hundreds of pounds for singles is way beyond my pocket.

When you think that you can pay a tenner for a CD that might, conceivably contain 30 tracks worth £300 each do the math, how many of us can spend £9000 on records. Boots, acetetes and LP's are an option but even these mediums are frowned upon in certain quarters.

Summing up I think the big do's with the big DJ's will always be there for those that want a vinyl only policy but at the more parochial level of our scene such as our do and the one described at Drax I can't help but feel that the attendent crowd's enjoyment is paramount and the audio medium should be an irrelevance.

link

____________________________________________________________________

There you go, Hertford is the county town of Hertfordshire, but that doesn't make a lick of difference if the venue isn't that well known (no disrespect to Dave). I know the Marquee is well attended by locals from what you've said.

There's nothing wrong with making every effort to play the best original vinyl you can stretch to. Everybody knows there are loads of good ten pound sounds. I think that do we did at the Half Moon was 85% originals, - plead guilty to Charles Sheffield ichiban'ness. But one in ten should be acceptable at a local do that's free to get in. As was.

I remember in 85 when we didn't know any better doing do's at Monroe's in Harlow (shit that's another one for my 80's thread ) playing Chapter 5 on tape. There's something to be said for a dj queuing a 45 ... some crackles ... a pregnant pause. You only really get that with vinyl and every effort should be made to preserve that ideal imo.

Imagine getting busted playing a pressing at a cred do! I'd be ashamed as a motherf*cker.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Ian Sims

[Guest Stuart T]

Maybe in the same way that people talk about playing underplayed records, someone should start an 'under-argued issue' thread instead of revisiting the same old 'played out' arguments   

link

Does that mean we should be arguing about what we should be arguing about or do we just get straight on with an obscure argument about something?

Here goes:

Collecting white demos of records on styrene of less than 2 minutes duration? I think they're crap IMHO.

Right, I'm off down the pub.

[Ged Parker]

Does that mean we should be arguing about what we should be arguing about or do we just get straight on with an obscure argument about something? 

Here goes:

Collecting white demos of records on styrene of less than 2 minutes duration? I think they're crap IMHO.

Right, I'm off down the pub.

link

Well I think ....... ohh sh1t still can't be arsed

[Supercorsa]

cocked up again!

Edited June 22, 2005 by Supercorsa

[Supercorsa]

However, something has been bothering me for years. And that is I've listened to the quality of the small handful of Patrinell Stattens deteriorate substantially since they first turned up. And I'm positive that before long all the known copies are sadly gonna sound like a fry-up in a mess-hall to the point where they're unlistenable. 

I love this song to bits like the rest of you. But what do we do when it dies, as, sonically,  most copies are evidently suffering the inevitable wrath of the stylus ...

Are we gonna stop playing it altogether cos no-one has a real copy?

Just a thought. And this isn't exclusive to this record.....

link

You could always get one of these copies:

Where at least the artist gets some money from it's sale, unlike an original copy on Ebay where the seller gets all the money!

>>Patrinell at release party for Wheedle's Groove LP<<

Edited June 22, 2005 by Supercorsa

[Rbman]

looks like we got another cd/vinyl debate 

shane

link

This thread reminded me of this post earlier this year!

"Following on from the debates what should get played originals or not and the interesting, if not very intelectual, debate on the Grapevine 2000 thread. How about a registration scheme where DJs and Venues can commit to playing originals only. I'm not a world authority on originals or a paid up member of the 'soul police' but a couple of us gave this some thought a while back. A number of relatively big DJs thought it may not be a good idea. Dunno why

Just to get the debate going here is a summary of our thoughts as I remember them: (acknowledgement goes to messers Murphy, Ferguson, Hayes, McWilliams et al)

Soul Probity

What is it?

It is a sort of "kite mark" to indicate to visitors to particular venues what they are buying with their admission fee.

Why has it been developed?

The venue competition within the Northern and Rare Soul scene has grown tremendously recently. The proliferation of tracks available on CD, bootlegs and legitimate re release has facilitated this and it is now possible to play many of the top rarities at minimal cost.

What's wrong with that?

On the face of it nothing and for some dancers particularly this is something positive allowing them to dance to sounds that they would have had to travel miles for previously unless of course they have a dance floor in their front room. However without the massive investment, financial and otherwise of some DJs and promoters how would these sounds develop and without that continued development what is the future for the scene?

Isn't this just elitist snobbery?

Far from it. It is more about allowing everyone to be more discerning in their choices if this is important to them. There are venues that have solid and long-standing reputations with dancers who want to hear the stock oldies; and who can argue with their success. This scheme will not impact on such venues at all. If however hearing a balance of classics with some new and different sounds is important then the 'Soul Probity' logo will provide some assurance to the punter.

Who benefits from this?

The punters - Through the ability to make more informed choices and knowing in advance what to expect at, even the newest of, venues. The diversity of sounds heard will increase as the rarity of some sounds has a natural limiting effect on the numbers of DJs that can play them. This will encourage creativity and imagination in those venues, in those DJs, that adopt the scheme.

The promoters - There will be a better match between what is expected and what is delivered and that can only help build the satisfaction of the customer who pay the bills. Building a following and reputation for a soul night can be costly and time consuming this mechanic helps speed this process up.

DJs - This will encourage a greater degree of professionalism and offer up some recognition for those who invest heavily. There is a widening gap between what is invested by many DJs and what income they can expect by way of fee from promoters. This provides a way for some, albeit non-financial, recognition to be had by those who follow an originals only policy. After all it must be annoying in the extreme to pay £400+ for an original "Rita and the Tiaras" only to have the DJ before you play the £5 "Joe Boy" copy.

Collectors - Record bars are the place where most of the "Oh God I'm sick of hearing this" comments are heard. New and varied sounds on play lists is what many collectors want particularly if the latest sound to be broken or reactivated is one they own.

Dealers - These have most to lose from the bootleg CDs or acetates made from mini-disk recordings of mega rare tracks. We often hear of the damage caused by bootleggers sometimes through "poachers turned gamekeepers". Whatever the rights and wrongs of this market, whether the CD are sold or given away this initiative will limit their use, publicly at least.

Vinyl will be the only medium used, except where the recording was originally released only in an alternative format e.g. Ivan Matias "Somebody Knows How You Feel" on C.D.

Original releases will form the content of all DJs sets.

"Original" will include:

· The first local and national U.S. label releases.

· The first U.K. or foreign label release if contemporaneous with the U.S. release, e.g. The British Soul City release of Gene Chandler's "Nothing Can Stop Me" would qualify but not the British Soul City release of Jack Montgomery's "Dearly Beloved".

· The first foreign label release where the track was not released in the U.S. e.g Doug Parkinson's Aussie release of "I'll Be Around"

· Album tracks are permissible where they appear on albums released at the time of the original release of the 45 e.g. Ace Spectrum's "Don't Send Me Nobody Else" from the album "Inner Spectrum" is permissible however any track from a "Various Artists" album would not be allowed.

· Acetates can be played but only if cut from original masters; EMI discs are not allowed.

Who Can Get Involved?

Promoters and DJs

If a promoter chooses to operate an "originals" only policy they can become "Venue Members". This will entitle the venue to use the Soul Probity logo on their publicity material for events where they only use DJs who are current members of the Soul Probity scheme.

If a DJ commits to an "originals" only policy he / she is eligible to become a member of the scheme and have the Soul Probity logo displayed after his / her name on any publicity material whether playing at a venue that is a "Venue Member" or not. "

[Petebangor]

This thread reminded me of this post earlier this year!

"Following on from the debates what should get played originals or not and the interesting, if not very intelectual, debate on the Grapevine 2000 thread. How about a registration scheme where DJs and Venues can commit to playing originals only. I'm not a world authority on originals or a paid up member of the 'soul police'  but a couple of us gave this some thought a while back. A number of relatively big DJs thought it may not be a good idea. Dunno why 

Just to get the debate going here is a summary of our thoughts as I remember them: (acknowledgement goes to messers Murphy, Ferguson, Hayes, McWilliams et al)

Soul Probity

What is it?

It is a sort of "kite mark" to indicate to visitors to particular venues what they are buying with their admission fee.

Why has it been developed?

The venue competition within the Northern and Rare Soul scene has grown tremendously recently. The proliferation of tracks available on CD, bootlegs and legitimate re release has facilitated this and it is now possible to play many of the top rarities at minimal cost.

What's wrong with that?

On the face of it nothing and for some dancers particularly this is something positive allowing them to dance to sounds that they would have had to travel miles for previously unless of course they have a dance floor in their front room. However without the massive investment, financial and otherwise of some DJs and promoters how would these sounds develop and without that continued development what is the future for the scene?

Isn't this just elitist snobbery?

Far from it. It is more about allowing everyone to be more discerning in their choices if this is important to them. There are venues that have solid and long-standing reputations with dancers who want to hear the stock oldies; and who can argue with their success. This scheme will not impact on such venues at all. If however hearing a balance of classics with some new and different sounds is important then the 'Soul Probity' logo will provide some assurance to the punter.

Who benefits from this?

The punters - Through the ability to make more informed choices and knowing in advance what to expect at, even the newest of, venues. The diversity of sounds heard will increase as the rarity of some sounds has a natural limiting effect on the numbers of DJs that can play them. This will encourage creativity and imagination in those venues, in those DJs, that adopt the scheme.

The promoters - There will be a better match between what is expected and what is delivered and that can only help build the satisfaction of the customer who pay the bills. Building a following and reputation for a soul night can be costly and time consuming this mechanic helps speed this process up.

DJs - This will encourage a greater degree of professionalism and offer up some recognition for those who invest heavily. There is a widening gap between what is invested by many DJs and what income they can expect by way of fee from promoters. This provides a way for some, albeit non-financial, recognition to be had by those who follow an originals only policy. After all it must be annoying in the extreme to pay £400+ for an original "Rita and the Tiaras" only to have the DJ before you play the £5 "Joe Boy" copy.

Collectors - Record bars are the place where most of the "Oh God I'm sick of hearing this" comments are heard. New and varied sounds on play lists is what many collectors want particularly if the latest sound to be broken or reactivated is one they own.

Dealers - These have most to lose from the bootleg CDs or acetates made from mini-disk recordings of mega rare tracks. We often hear of the damage caused by bootleggers sometimes through "poachers turned gamekeepers". Whatever the rights and wrongs of this market, whether the CD are sold or given away this initiative will limit their use, publicly at least.

Vinyl will be the only medium used, except where the recording was originally released only in an alternative format e.g. Ivan Matias "Somebody Knows How You Feel" on C.D.

Original releases will form the content of all DJs sets.

"Original" will include:

· The first local and national U.S. label releases.

· The first U.K. or foreign label release if contemporaneous with the U.S. release, e.g. The British Soul City release of Gene Chandler's "Nothing Can Stop Me" would qualify but not the British Soul City release of Jack Montgomery's "Dearly Beloved".

· The first foreign label release where the track was not released in the U.S. e.g Doug Parkinson's Aussie release of "I'll Be Around"

· Album tracks are permissible where they appear on albums released at the time of the original release of the 45 e.g. Ace Spectrum's "Don't Send Me Nobody Else" from the album "Inner Spectrum" is permissible however any track from a "Various Artists" album would not be allowed.

· Acetates can be played but only if cut from original masters; EMI discs are not allowed.

Who Can Get Involved?

Promoters and DJs

If a promoter chooses to operate an "originals" only policy they can become "Venue Members". This will entitle the venue to use the Soul Probity logo on their publicity material for events where they only use DJs who are current members of the Soul Probity scheme.

If a DJ commits to an "originals" only policy he / she is eligible to become a member of the scheme and have the Soul Probity logo displayed after his / her name on any publicity material whether playing at a venue that is a "Venue Member" or not. "

link

Please tell me this was written ' Tongue In Cheek'

If not

[Rbman]

i don't think so

Link to the full thread here https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.p...hl=soul+probity

[Guest ShaneH]

Of course. Got a few things up my sleeve for Saturday. Namely a rabbit and a pack of cards. It'll at least entertain a few while I dish out my usual overdramatic anachronisms.

However, something has been bothering me for years. And that is I've listened to the quality of the small handful of Patrinell Stattens deteriorate substantially since they first turned up. And I'm positive that before long all the known copies are sadly gonna sound like a fry-up in a mess-hall to the point where they're unlistenable. 

I love this song to bits like the rest of you. But what do we do when it dies, as, sonically,  most copies are evidently suffering the inevitable wrath of the stylus ...

Are we gonna stop playing it altogether cos no-one has a real copy?

Just a thought. And this isn't exclusive to this record.....

link

I am with Pete Smith on this. Very average record with a ridiculously long intro.

Shane

[Guest Stuart T]

Please tell me this was written ' Tongue In Cheek'

If not     

link

As I recall the whole thing deteriorated into a few Monty Python sketches.

[Ged Parker]

As I recall the whole thing deteriorated into a few Monty Python sketches.

link

As the author of the previous post I have to say it was tongue in cheek even though the sentiments about people being honest about what they play are entirely true to my beliefs I didnt seriously think it was either viable or would be taken seriously. It was very early on in my time on the site and therefore the 'self deprication' didnt come across as most of you didn't know me then (most still don't now ).

I couldnt believe the reaction I got people even felt passionate enough about it to get me phone number and barrate me over the phone. So you can't believe how happy I am to have this brought up again .

[Rbman]

As the author of the previous post I have to say it was tongue in cheek even though the sentiments about people being honest about what they play are entirely true to my beliefs I didnt seriously think it was either viable or would be taken seriously. It was very early on in my time on the site and therefore the 'self deprication' didnt come across as most of you didn't know me then (most still don't now  ).

I couldnt believe the reaction I got people even felt passionate enough about it to get me phone number and barrate me over the phone.  So you can't believe how happy I am to have this brought up again    .

link

Oops

To be honest I printed it off and framed it.......

[Mormar44]

When I am occasionally asked to DJ I always use original vinyl. I can see that some small local venues will use cd's and if they are not hiding the fact then I don't have a problem with it. These are not rare soul events more like good night out events.

What I do object to are "big name DJ's" at the big all nighters and weekenders (money spinning 600 plus people events) playing off cd's. I think this is well out of order and they should be named and shamed.

Mark

[Mark Bicknell]

I know Ged Parker to be a very decent chap who simply has a passion for authentic records, often the topic of conversation with Ged when we hook up is based on talking bollocks about our latest additions to the collections, how much, where did you get it from kind of stuff which seems to be common ground on the scene with people who collect in the true sense of the word, so i know his comments to be very much tounge in cheek.

This debate will go on and on without any clear resolution i feel, the fact is before any of the bootlegs, EMI discs, taylor made dubs from big records, CD's, Tapes whatever the tunes, discoveries,records were at their inception to the scene sourced from original American/British/Rest of the world records or master tapes from the vaults on the unissued material.

Basically this is the true format that some people get into from the off, from a personal point of view and i think i speak for many other DJ's it's about being true to yourself and presenting the music in it's genuine, authentic original form which is the key to all this, yes i have stated that i enjoy CD's as a form of home entertainment and yes i preview/review new compilations on my Solar show as part of promotion for the companies efforts who are kind enough to supply me with promo product, as long as the guidelines are followed on a reissue i.e it's legit then i see no problem in this what so ever, what is underhand is the dupliction of official releases on home PC's for resale but thats another story!!!!

Now as i said in my previous post here who are we to down some promotions who do it their way, it might not be our way but there is nothing we can to about it as it's too far down the line now, perhaps a little like football you have the elite shall we say in the top flight of the game and you have the lower division clubs who play the game well but don't just have the money to buy the big players so they stay in the middle divisions loving the game with as much passion as the big guns yet unable or choose not to get involved with F.A infighting and petty politics, just play and love the game.

Lastly, collecting original records big ticket or otherwise is without question a bug and addiction, it's about the chase and finally getting that elusive 45 in the palm of your hand and too play it at a gig and get a reaction to it is second to none, yes you get the same reaction on the dance floor via another sound carrier or format but theres something a little special when you have the real deal going on, perhaps a little ego and pride comes into play but the important issue is that by going down the original route you are staying true to yourself, true to the artists to a degree who made the records in the first place and more importantly you are flying the flag of a scene based on rare often hard to find records which has to be the whole ethos of this scene and sets us apart from other club cultures, we should embrace all promotions on this scene as it's keeping the whole thing going, as we have said if you don't like the methods of some promotions then you don't have to attend, there are plenty of gigs to cater for all styles and levels of the scene, if going to a local soul night once a month does it for you then what's wrong with that, i often think that the more casual northern soul fan perhaps has a little more fun than the more serious followers as format of tune, politics and so on has little or no interest to them in any shape or form.

I feel we must respect everyones view point on this old chestnut as it's a debate that's been going on for years now and there is still no solid resolution or winner in all this as all that suffers is the scene.

How i, Ged, Mr Rimmer, the Drax boys conduct what we do has very little to do with anyone else really, for some people it's a way of life and for others it's an entertaiment and hobby, at whatever level good on everyone i say for being part of the scene but for me i get my 'Soul Self Satisfaction' the best way i can and within my financial means an ethic and restriction that govens most of us i feel but at the gigs i have to stick to the original ethos and will continue to do so otherwise Mr Rimmer will tell everyone and write about me in his magazine and we can't have that.................

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest dodger]

What I do object to are "big name DJ's" at the big all nighters and weekenders (money spinning 600 plus people events) playing off cd's. I think this is well out of order and they should be named and shamed.

Mark

Mark, give me a valid reason why it's out of order? Unless it's a case of 'that bastard isn't playing the original, which I've got, so it should be me DJ'ing up there, not him'? That's the only reason I can ever see why people object to what others are doing? DJ's don't become big names on the northern soul scene for no reason, they've proved they have the 'real thing' and they've proven themselves over the years, so what does it matter if in 2005 they decide that the medium of the CD is more convenient to DJ with, more especially if they're DJ'ing at the money-spinning 600 plus events where probably 98% of people there wouldn't think of queuing up at the decks to stand there with their tongues hanging out and salivating all over the label.

Roger

[Simsy]

If I pay ten pounds to get into a venue, I want value for money. Part of that magic and indeed value is to know that someone of the ilk of Butch is playing fantastic records he payed a mint for, so we can stand there in awe, or hopefully dance with awe

[Mormar44]

Mark, give me a valid reason why it's out of order?  Unless it's a case of 'that bastard isn't playing the original, which I've got, so it should be me DJ'ing up there, not him'?  That's the only reason I can ever see why people object to what others are doing?  DJ's don't become big names on the northern soul scene for no reason, they've proved they have the 'real thing' and they've proven themselves over the years, so what does it matter if in 2005 they decide that the medium of the CD is more convenient to DJ with, more especially if they're DJ'ing at the money-spinning 600 plus events where probably 98% of people there wouldn't think of queuing up at the decks to stand there with their tongues hanging out and salivating all over the label.

Roger

link

Roger

I think the difference is that at the big events, many people will have travelled a long way expecting to hear rare sounds played on original vinyl. I think Mark B's "If you've not got it don't play it" is more relevant to the big events than to the smaller local do's. I don't think punters at those events care what medium the music comes from but I reckon if you asked around at the large events people assume that the sounds are being played from vinyl. As you say a DJ on this scene builds a reputation over the years from playing quality music on vinyl. If you were on at Kings Hall and played Margaret Little I'd assume that you had a copy, if I found that you had been playing it from a cd then I'd be dissapointed and your reputation would have gone down for me pesonally.

IMHO there is a difference between the standards that people expect at a big event (where people travel) than there is at a local do run by people who just want to provide a good time for people who are out for a dance and drink close to home on a Saturday night.

Mark

[Guest dodger]

If I pay ten pounds to get into a venue, I want value for money. Part of that magic and indeed value is to know that someone of the ilk of Butch is playing fantastic records he payed a mint for, so we can stand there in awe, or hopefully dance with awe

link

Fair enough Ian, if that's how you view it, then I wouldn't knock you for thinking that way, I've always taken the view of each to their own and all that, whether I agree with them or not. But take the imaginary scenario that Butch had forgotten to bring some of his big bucks originals but remembed he'd CDR'd them to listen in the car so shot out to his car, grabbed the CDR and played them off that. The chances of that happening are zero I know, but if he did, would you enjoy his spot any less because of that?

[Guest ShaneH]

If I pay ten pounds to get into a venue, I want value for money. Part of that magic and indeed value is to know that someone of the ilk of Butch is playing fantastic records he payed a mint for, so we can stand there in awe, or hopefully dance with awe

link

not bothered about the value at all to be honest. quality is available without the price tag.

Shane

[Simsy]

Fair enough Ian, if that's how you view it, then I wouldn't knock you for thinking that way, I've always taken the view of each to their own and all that, whether I agree with them or not.  But take the imaginary scenario that Butch had forgotten to bring some of his big bucks originals but remembed he'd CDR'd them to listen in the car so shot out to his car, grabbed the CDR and played them off that.  The chances of that happening are zero I know, but if he did, would you enjoy his spot any less because of that?   

link

Butch? No, I wouldn't think less of him as a one off. In NS DJ'ing circles the man is a god and would be cut some slack. However this cd thing just doesn't sit comfortably with me. Ginger said they look so pretty and they sound great. No, there is a lot to be said for an original NS 45 and i'm afraid a cd is just no substitute.

[Dave Moore]

Mark, give me a valid reason why it's out of order?  Unless it's a case of 'that bastard isn't playing the original, which I've got, so it should be me DJ'ing up there, not him'?  That's the only reason I can ever see why people object to what others are doing?  DJ's don't become big names on the northern soul scene for no reason, they've proved they have the 'real thing' and they've proven themselves over the years, so what does it matter if in 2005 they decide that the medium of the CD is more convenient to DJ with, more especially if they're DJ'ing at the money-spinning 600 plus events where probably 98% of people there wouldn't think of queuing up at the decks to stand there with their tongues hanging out and salivating all over the label.

Roger

link

How many times have you asked this question Dodge? The answer remains the same........

If I have to keep explaining.....you ain't NEVER gonna understand.

The WHOLE thing is BASED on rare RECORDS for us. That's it!! No more, no less.

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[Guest dodger]

How many times have you asked this question Dodge? The answer remains the same........

If I have to keep explaining.....you ain't NEVER gonna understand.     

The WHOLE thing is BASED on rare RECORDS for us. That's it!! No more, no less. 

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

link

Yeah, but you're 87 years old, you're unlikely to change your views at your time of life!!

Of course I understand it Dave, I don't concur with the way of thinking as you know, but I do understand it completely, being a collector of 'proper' records myself. The thing that gets to me every time though is the preaching to others how they should be conducting their events, how they DJ, what they play etc. etc. and the name-calling of others who don't fall in line with traditionalist views.

In truth I couldn't actually give a flying f*** about any of it mate, but it's fun to join in sometimes to see how people over-react!!!

Cheers

Roger

[jocko]

Of course I understand it Dave, I don't concur with the way of thinking as you know, but I do understand it completely, being a collector of 'proper' records myself.  The thing that gets to me every time though is the preaching to others how they should be conducting their events, how they DJ, what they play etc. etc. and the name-calling of others who don't fall in line with traditionalist views.

In truth I couldn't actually give a flying f*** about any of it mate, but it's fun to join in sometimes to see how people over-react!!!       

Cheers

Roger

link

You dont understand it Roger, you cant having never been part of it,

Truth is most people dont get it, why should they, heck not sure I really get it these days , but to me and most people I know its what NS was all about, as Mr Bicknell has said much more succintly than I can. In all honesty there is no logic to, but then there is no logic to sitting on cold damp river banks throwing worms into water to catch fish when you could go down the fishmonger and get it ready prepared, sure some people will disagree. As one of your current favorite future NS monster sounds says "It Is What It Is"!!

I sort of agree now (as do more people than I would have thought reading above posts) about the unacceptable preaching to venues and people, think now its becoming generally accepted the local scenes are a different scene and have a purpose, also agree re your comments about the big venues almost being more likely to play anything these days, as a number of people have said, people can choose to support these or not. I think the bigger problem currently is the amount of people wanting to dj for some bizarre reason!

Okay enough agreeing with you Roger, bad for my cred at the OVOAA (Original Vinyl Only Anonomous Association), one thing I am not sure about your stance, would you be happy if someone turned up for the Kings Hall Stoke with a series of Togetherness cds and played the big tickets of these, or are you saying its only acceptable if its cdrs of their own records??

Cheers

Jock

Edited June 23, 2005 by jocko

[Dave]

but I do understand it completely, being a collector of 'proper' records myself.  The thing that gets to me every time though is the preaching to others how they should be conducting their events, how they DJ, what they play etc. etc. and the name-calling of others who don't fall in line with traditionalist views.

Cheers

Roger

link

Well Roger, as you know I haven't agreed with every single thing you've posted on here......

....but I do agree with what you've written above!

Dave

[Dave Rimmer]

Yeah, but you're 87 years old, you're unlikely to change your views at your time of life!!     

Of course I understand it Dave, I don't concur with the way of thinking as you know, but I do understand it completely, being a collector of 'proper' records myself. 

Cheers

Roger

link

You don't collect proper records, you collect disco 12" records

I actually DJ'ed with CDs last Saturday, and discovered how easy it is, the only thing that kept distracting me was the number of people who kept coming to the decks to take photos of me DJing with CDs

(As a footnote, I'll add that it was at Phil Richards Wedding reception and there were only CD decks available so I'd have looked a bit of a plonker with my cherished 7" bits of vinyl trying to play them !!!!)

[Guest dodger]

Okay enough agreeing with you Roger, bad for my cred at the OVOAA (Original Vinyl Only Anonomous Association), one thing I am not sure about your stance, would you be happy if someone turned up for the Kings Hall Stoke with a series of Togetherness cds and played the big tickets of these, or are you saying its only acceptable if its cdrs of their own records?? 

link

I wouldn't bat an eyelid, Jock, it's of no consequence to me what other DJ's do, honestly it's not.

I once did witness two guys DJ'ing at a gig in Morecambe with CDRs of compilations I'd done for somebody else though, which amused me no end.

[Guest Baz]

so I'd have looked a bit of a plonker with my cherished 7" bits of vinyl trying to play them !!!!)

link

and they dont fit too well in there

[Dave Moore]

Yeah, but you're 87 years old, you're unlikely to change your views at your time of life!!     

Of course I understand it Dave, I don't concur with the way of thinking as you know, but I do understand it completely, being a collector of 'proper' records myself.  The thing that gets to me every time though is the preaching to others how they should be conducting their events, how they DJ, what they play etc. etc. and the name-calling of others who don't fall in line with traditionalist views.

In truth I couldn't actually give a flying f*** about any of it mate, but it's fun to join in sometimes to see how people over-react!!!  Cheers

Roger

link

You are of course right about old dogs and new tricks! Sometimes I can actually make it to the toilet on mi own but as you state it's becoming increasingly difficult to carry out mu ablution needs aon a completely sanitary basis nowadays!

I do think though that if anyone has the "preaching attitude" it is in fact the "modernists/crossover/tent enthusiasts". They come off as a bunch of "snobby soul twats" (SSTs) imo.

Lost count of the number of SSTs who've tried to convince me that I'm living in the vinyl past, a throw back to the dinasuar age!

Wish they'd just get on with what they want to do and leave me to get on with what I do......

There I've said it!

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[Petebangor]

I do think though that if anyone has the "preaching attitude" it is in fact the "modernists/crossover/tent enthusiasts". They come off as a bunch of "snobby soul twats" (SSTs) imo.

Lost count of the number of SSTs who've tried to convince me that I'm living in the vinyl past, a throw back to the dinasuar age!

Great post Dave

By the way,how is the Soul scene in Jurassic Park thesedays?

The Right Reverand Pete Roberts