Guest Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 One I have been meaning to ask for a bit. Why the different design for the same release ? I hear there is an orange bootleg showing the design with the lightning on the right side. Ok so what about the demo - cause I dont reckon its a boot - way too good. All the same numbers / credits ! Did they just change the label half way through the run ? Did Stax do a second release of the 45 ? More questions Moss
John Benson Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 No definate answer, but I would imagine it's one of those 'East Coast' & 'West Coast' differences which keep on cropping up. In other words, one was probably pressed at a different pressing plant to the other? 1
mshoals Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 One I have been meaning to ask for a bit. Why the different design for the same release ? I hear there is an orange bootleg showing the design with the lightning on the right side. Ok so what about the demo - cause I dont reckon its a boot - way too good. All the same numbers / credits ! Did they just change the label half way through the run ? Did Stax do a second release of the 45 ? More questions Moss Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the one on the right (just like the multi-coloured Volt 45s and green Stax 45s) from a pressing made after Atlantic stopped distributing new Stax product?
John Reed Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 One I have been meaning to ask for a bit. Why the different design for the same release ? I hear there is an orange bootleg showing the design with the lightning on the right side. Ok so what about the demo - cause I dont reckon its a boot - way too good. All the same numbers / credits ! Did they just change the label half way through the run ? Did Stax do a second release of the 45 ? More questions Moss They have a difference suffix at the end of each matrix number, maybe that's the way to tell where is was pressed? 1
mshoals Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the one on the right (just like the multi-coloured Volt 45s and green Stax 45s) from a pressing made after Atlantic stopped distributing new Stax product? I found the following explanation for the different label variations from Stax expert Ren Wu in the archives of the Stax newsgroup: "After the distribution deal was concluded in May 1968, Atlantic became the owner of all Stax/Volt material. However, the stack of record logo as well as the lightning logo remained at Stax. So Atlantic was not able to released records with those logo's. That's why they introduced the green and multicolored Volt label. To gain airplay Atlantic released promo copy's of those newly labelled 45's. ( about the same reasons why a record company had one or more sub labels)."
Guest Paul Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 They were pressed at different plants for Atlantic's regional distributors. Matrix # VLT 140946-SP (picture 1) was made at Specialty in Olyphant, PA. for the east coast and # VLT 14046-PL (picture 2) was made at Plastic Products in Memphis, TN. for the south. Specialty became a subsidiary of WEA in Manufacturing in 1978. They also pressed copies ( # VLT 14046-MO) at Monarch in Los Angeles for west coast distributors. Monarch was owned at the time by Jubilee Industries, parent company of Cosnat/Jay-Gee etc. This was done purely because shipping 45s across the continent was more expensive (and time consuming) than pressing batches in regions. Each plant processed their own metalwork from duplicate copies of lacquers and printed their own labels in-house or locally. It's often assumed that one particular pressing came first but, in most cases, they were usually pressed at the same time. Another label variation was, as someone said, because Atlantic had to use different Stax and Volt label styles if they repressed 45s after their Stax deal had ended. That accounts for green label copies of Ollie Nightingale etc. Best regards, Paul Mooney
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 They were pressed at different plants for Atlantic's regional distributors. Matrix # VLT 140946-SP (picture 1) was made at Specialty in Olyphant, PA. for the east coast and # VLT 14046-PL (picture 2) was made at Plastic Products in Memphis, TN. for the south. Specialty became a subsidiary of WEA in Manufacturing in 1978. They also pressed copies ( # VLT 14046-MO) at Monarch in Los Angeles for west coast distributors. Monarch was owned at the time by Jubilee Industries, parent company of Cosnat/Jay-Gee etc. This was done purely because shipping 45s across the continent was more expensive (and time consuming) than pressing batches in regions. Each plant processed their own metalwork from duplicate copies of lacquers and printed their own labels in-house or locally. It's often assumed that one particular pressing came first but, in most cases, they were usually pressed at the same time. Another label variation was, as someone said, because Atlantic had to use different Stax and Volt label styles if they repressed 45s after their Stax deal had ended. That accounts for green label copies of Ollie Nightingale etc. Best regards, Paul Mooney Wow, now thats excellent information, just why I come on this site. Much appreciated.
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Thats why I ask stupid questions on here ! Thanks Paul and everybody ! I bought the demo with the lightning on the right off Craig Moerer years ago ! He sold it to me as a definate original, but I always suspected otherwise due to the orange bootleg I suppose. My mate told me the other week that they are both originals pressed at the same time but at different plants, but I wasn't convinced. But It seems that he is dead right again ! Thanks everyone. And It is still a nice oldie IMO ! Moss
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Thats why I ask stupid questions on here ! Thanks Paul and everybody ! I bought the demo with the lightning on the right off Craig Moerer years ago ! He sold it to me as a definate original, but I always suspected otherwise due to the orange bootleg I suppose. My mate told me the other week that they are both originals pressed at the same time but at different plants, but I wasn't convinced. But It seems that he is dead right again ! Thanks everyone. And It is still a nice oldie IMO ! Moss
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Two more important questions...................... why are all my replies in duplicate on this site at the moment ? and wasn't Lin Lyndell a native Red Indian ?
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Yes she was native indian The Uk light blue stax label is best release IMHO LL - still one of my all time faves since first heard it in '68 Now where's my pipe and slippers oh right by the chair - bring it back yeaeaeah bring it back oh baby won'tcha bring your love back to me
dthedrug Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 THIS IS THE ONE TO HAVE LADS AND THERES NO DEBATE DAVE KIL
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Yes she was native indian The Uk light blue stax label is best release IMHO LL - still one of my all time faves since first heard it in '68 Now where's my pipe and slippers oh right by the chair - bring it back yeaeaeah bring it back oh baby won'tcha bring your love back to me My sentiments eactly - thanx for posting image m8
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 How much does the demo on the right go for now? jm sold the demo on the left for 3 figures on his auction - I have never seen the demo on the right for sale .
Guest Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 THIS IS THE ONE TO HAVE LADS AND THERES NO DEBATE DAVE KIL Dave, can you remove the boxer icon from your posts ? This is scaring my kids............ and myself. Loving that UK Stax 45 mind !!! Mossy
mshoals Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) Thats why I ask stupid questions on here ! Thanks Paul and everybody ! I bought the demo with the lightning on the right off Craig Moerer years ago ! He sold it to me as a definate original, but I always suspected otherwise due to the orange bootleg I suppose. My mate told me the other week that they are both originals pressed at the same time but at different plants, but I wasn't convinced. But It seems that he is dead right again ! Thanks everyone. And It is still a nice oldie IMO ! Moss Is there actually an orange bootleg of this 45? The label for a proper orange/multi-coloured issue corresponding to the demo on the right would look like this: The 2 demo's shown are pressed at different plants, but isn't the second still a later pressing (after May '68) than the first (which is before May '68), just as the Volt label shown above and the green Stax 45s are later pressings? Edited June 26, 2009 by mshoals
dthedrug Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Dave, can you remove the boxer icon from your posts ? This is scaring my kids............ and myself. Loving that UK Stax 45 mind !!! Mossy Mossy I take your point, however I find the Fighting Man very synbolic of myself, as the youngest in my family and the fact that my elder sister was an origanal 63 MOD, and elder brother was a face and feared or revered as a hard nut MOD, when I left school in 1967 at the age of 15, I was already influance by the MOD culture, however like so many of us at this time rejected most aspects of the mood and change in sociaty, as such and with the death of a WEST HAM supporter at the last away game at Notts Forest 67/68 season over that summer the attitude of the younger fans from the East End changed no in fighting fromnow on all the west ham fans would act as one and as such make sure no one picked on us? of course this was the start of the new sub culture off the Boot Boy full of Agro, this new style of gang culture was taken up by other London Football fans over the next 8 weeks. And 1 year later 40 years ago the press had rebranded the gang culture and called it SKINHEAD, as such I will always have an eliment of agro in me, My close friend for 40 years Mick Smith was and always be a Soul Boy MOD and that is the differance, it is also worth noteing that the skinhead uniform was embraced by many poeple at the time as it is to this day a crisp and styelish look and just because they wore the cloths it did not make them skinheads, from my own perspective the Boot Boy (skinhead) culture had finished in the early part of 1970, yet the fashion and style is reconised world wide If you come from the london area at the time I was a teanager it was full of agro and violance even at a disco. So you can imagine my shock when I first went to the early rare soul nights, expecting agro, but got the conpleat oppersit respect the hand shake? what was that all about, and I know that the poeple there were like myself If you no Wolves POeple Like Big Frankie Baggort a Wheel goer Smokie at the Torch and many more are real hard men yet the rare soul scene was not based on tough guys but tough records to find and collect, so thats why I use it as a symbolic of the roots of rare soul DAVE (THE BOOT BOY) KIL
timthemod Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 UK Blue Issue Stax on UK Ebay at the moment ending tonight!
steve Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 THIS IS THE ONE TO HAVE LADS AND THERES NO DEBATE DAVE KIL I got a uk copy of this, but was wondering if there is a uk demo, I can't say I've ever seen one if it has?? Steve
Jerry Hipkiss Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I got a uk copy of this, but was wondering if there is a uk demo, I can't say I've ever seen one if it has?? Steve AFAIK there weren't actual demo copies for Stax UK at this time - were they stickered?
pikeys dog Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 The orange boot looks like the second WD but printed on orange paper. The sound quality is crap if my memory isn't playing tricks on me. No UK demos for the blue labels Stax 45s - you may turn up the odd white label test pressing.
Guest Johnny Mack Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Scan of my UK Stax copy of this - Date stamped 26 July 1968. Pretty sure I also remember there being a UK Polydor white label library copy of Linda Lyndell which was a different take to the Stax release. Best John
Shane Cosgrove Posted June 3, 2021 Posted June 3, 2021 An old topic I know but have this on a Filipino Atco demo - must be rare?
Blackpoolsoul Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 On 02/07/2009 at 16:50, pikeys dog said: The orange boot looks like the second WD but printed on orange paper. The sound quality is crap if my memory isn't playing tricks on me. No UK demos for the blue labels Stax 45s - you may turn up the odd white label test pressing. Boot ? On 26/06/2009 at 07:43, mshoals said: Is there actually an orange bootleg of this 45? The label for a proper orange/multi-coloured issue corresponding to the demo on the right would look like this: The 2 demo's shown are pressed at different plants, but isn't the second still a later pressing (after May '68) than the first (which is before May '68), just as the Volt label shown above and the green Stax 45s are later pressings? Issues both on Plastic and Speciality Products
Blackpoolsoul Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) On 25/06/2009 at 08:38, John Reed said: They have a difference suffix at the end of each matrix number, maybe that's the way to tell where is was pressed? And another Demo 7 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said: And a bit better image of Demo SP and another MO (Monarch) Edited June 4, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul
Winsford Soul Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 (edited) Ive only ever had the blue Stax UK issue, As earlier in the thread did any UK demo,s ever turn up ? Great record used to get a few plays out off me Edited June 4, 2021 by Winsford Soul
Blackpoolsoul Posted June 4, 2021 Posted June 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Winsford Soul said: Ive only ever had the blue Stax UK issue, As earlier in the thread did any UK demo,s ever turn up ? Great record used to get a few plays out off me Never seen one other than blue push out 1
Joesoap Posted June 5, 2021 Posted June 5, 2021 On 04/06/2021 at 00:28, Shane Cosgrove said: An old topic I know but have this on a Filipino Atco demo - must be rare? I've got an issue copy of that (apols for the wonky photo).
Shane Cosgrove Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 Interesting this. I've got about 25 demos of Filipino Northern Soul releases all white apart from a yellow Filipino Brunswick demo of Cooperettes Shing-a-ling. This is the 1st issue I've seen. I had a theory that they were just demos created for US radio stations in Manila, or radio stations that served US forces. Obviously wrong then as it seems these were released to the general population.Hardly see them for sale, pretty sure most records were binned here a long time ago. 1
Blackpoolsoul Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 4 hours ago, Shane Cosgrove said: Interesting this. I've got about 25 demos of Filipino Northern Soul releases all white apart from a yellow Filipino Brunswick demo of Cooperettes Shing-a-ling. This is the 1st issue I've seen. I had a theory that they were just demos created for US radio stations in Manila, or radio stations that served US forces. Obviously wrong then as it seems these were released to the general population.Hardly see them for sale, pretty sure most records were binned here a long time ago. It appears that they are still going strong Mr Villar https://upaasvblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/04/villar-records-and-the-birth-of-original-pilipino-music-opm/
Kenb Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 if anyone has a clip ( or where to find the film/theatre production) please post it. https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b8dc8c7a8
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