Top Ten Rnb Crossover

[Guest Richard Bergman]

ah now i see male group harmonies are not soul ..cant see any trees let alone any woods

and i am shocked at the ammount of blatant flirting going on here ..get a room mr bicknell for your group fingy

link

Yes group harmonies are soul - very much - but the statement was in relation to the Rockmasters and evidence of doo-wop on the record

This is the typical soul source way , to take something out of context away from the thread in question and to invent a moral highground for yourself

Edited June 16, 2005 by Richard Bergman

[Dave]

Some fave r'n'b's didn't see mentioned above that over here play happily at northern do's:

Barbara Trent - A woman was made for a man (same label but way rarer)

link

Defo a funk record

[Guest]

And that really fast stomper one that me & Karen like with the line that goes "Does She Love You Like I Do" - can someone please tell what that is called?

I'm always blasted when people tell me and can never remember it

Jamie 

link

Yes, can someone please tell us the name and singer, have been told before but like Jamie find it hard to remember what I have been told

[Guest Stuart T]

coconut clip-clop banjo music 

link

I like a bit of CCCBM myself. Christ, I'm going to get a tattoo with that on.

Will it hurt though?

[Dave]

Yes, can someone please tell us the name and singer, have been told before but like Jamie find it hard to remember what I have been told 

link

The Primers, How Does It Grab You came to my mind spouse #3, but that's about as likely to get a mention on this thread as Clean Up the Ghetto.

Edited June 16, 2005 by Dave

[Pomonkey]

Barbara Trent - A woman was made for a man (same label but way rarer)

Not a funk record my friend, although since I played it as a cover up down the phone a few yrs ago to a couple of UK funk dj's, one of whom posts here, who were looking for Heartbreak Hotel thinking it was rare just to let them know they still had a lot to learn, when they eventually tracked down it got played by them at funk nights. But it's an r'n'b / jazz vocal, she actually gets second billing on the label to the Richie Corbin Trio who were the jazz combo whose record it actually is.

[Guest Jamie]

Yes, can someone please tell us the name and singer, have been told before but like Jamie find it hard to remember what I have been told 

link

Karen, just spent last hour with Joe sending me files still no luck!

He thinks we imagined it.

Who played it when we danced to it? was it Butch???

[Guest Jamie]

   

I like a bit of CCCBM myself.   Christ, I'm going to get a tattoo with that on. 

Will it hurt though?

link

Depends where you have it old chap

[Guest Jamie]

Barbara Trent - A woman was made for a man (same label but way rarer)

Not a funk record my friend, although since I played it as a cover up down the phone a few yrs ago to a couple of UK funk dj's, one of whom posts here, who were looking for Heartbreak Hotel thinking it was rare just to let them know they still had a lot to learn, when they eventually tracked down it got played by them at funk nights.  But it's an r'n'b / jazz vocal, she actually gets second billing on the label to the Richie Corbin Trio who were the jazz combo whose record it actually is.

link

Could I have a soundfile please???

Ta,

Jamie

[Guest becky c]

The Primers, How Does It Grab You came to my mind spouse #3, but that's about as likely to get a mention on this thread as Clean Up the Ghetto.

link

came to my mind too hubby. you both got up to boogy to it (think sat night??), but i'm afraid i opted to just sit and sing.

Bec

[Guest becky c]

Like you said though squire (Dave), not very likely in these here parts.

[simonb]

Dave,

That record in you're aviator (Trini Lopez)- Is that an R&B track - the only track I know on the label (Great graphics) is Jay Lewis - Love is Real. I can't stop playing it out - though its not for a northern club.

any chance of a sound clip?

Simon

[Guest]

Dave,

That record in you're aviator (Trini Lopez)- Is that an R&B track - the only track I know on the label (Great graphics) is Jay Lewis - Love is Real. I can't stop playing it out - though its not for a northern club.

any chance of a sound clip?

Simon

link

Me i would like to hear it too!bit of a triny fan especialy the funny noises!,got him doing 25miles with nancy sinatra.....

[Guest]

Karen, just spent last hour with Joe sending me files    still no luck!

He thinks we imagined it.

Who played it when we danced to it? was it Butch???

link

No idea Jamie, all I can say is that I have heard it a lot, maybe next time we see Mr Dog we can sing it to him, I bet he will no it

[pikeys dog]

hmmmm Jazz.

Trini Lopez did a fair album full of R&B/Soul tracks...

Imaginatively called - The R&B Album.

[Guest]

Dave,

That record in you're aviator (Trini Lopez)- Is that an R&B track - the only track I know on the label (Great graphics) is Jay Lewis - Love is Real. I can't stop playing it out - though its not for a northern club.

any chance of a sound clip?

Simon

link

Is it sinner not a saint? if so its brill

[Guest]

One record I can't see the appeal of is...

Barbara Dane - I'm On My Way

link

dreadful record get it the f*** off my scene, how the f*** is that a dancer, the record just about stops midway.

lets get back to basics

[Dave]

Barbara Trent - A woman was made for a man (same label but way rarer)

Not a funk record my friend, although since I played it as a cover up down the phone a few yrs ago to a couple of UK funk dj's, one of whom posts here, who were looking for Heartbreak Hotel thinking it was rare just to let them know they still had a lot to learn, when they eventually tracked down it got played by them at funk nights.  But it's an r'n'b / jazz vocal, she actually gets second billing on the label to the Richie Corbin Trio who were the jazz combo whose record it actually is.

link

Well I can see how it makes appeal on both scenes, and I have to say I enjoy both types of music, but I'd call it more funk than RnB....but hell, does it matter....great sound.

And it seems as if you may have played a hand in us hearing it for the first time, so good on ya

I posted earlier about a funk DJ having Jimmy Robbins in his box...what do you make of that one then?

Regards,

Dave

[Dave]

Dave,

That record in you're aviator (Trini Lopez)- Is that an R&B track - the only track I know on the label (Great graphics) is Jay Lewis - Love is Real. I can't stop playing it out - though its not for a northern club.

any chance of a sound clip?

Simon

link

You can find it on soulclub.org mate

[Guest Jamie]

Dave, have you got the Primers or Barbara Trent soundfiles so I can eliminate them from our enquiries??

Ta everso.

J

Edited June 16, 2005 by Jamie

[Dave]

Like you said though squire (Dave), not very likely in these here parts.

link

Right enough

[Dave]

Is it sinner not a saint? if so its brill 

link

Just seemed apt today, somehow

Edited June 16, 2005 by Dave

[Guest remus]

I really do wonder sometimes if people on this forum listen to the same record(s) as I do  The above track is laden with so much harmony and group dynamics that it could easily be (and too a larger extent is) doo-wop and I think your ignorance of this fact shows how blinkered and unreasonably precious you guys are - The phrase wood for the trees mean anything ??

link

"COULD easily be, or to a larger extent IS doo wop",... make your mind up!

So much harmony and group dynamics!,.. what like The Temps, Four Tops,

Empires, Voltaires, Dramatics, Appreciations,.......I could go on but I might slip on the leaves!

[simonb]

You can find it on soulclub.org mate

link

Thanks Dave,

I like the track, but its got a pop edge. Do you know the Jay Lewis - Love is Real on the same label? Fantastic heavy club R&B, worth a listen if you're open to R&B.

Simon

[Dave]

Dave, have you got the Primers or Barbara Trent soundfiles so I can eliminate them from our enquiries??

Ta everso. 

J

link

Got both mate...might take me a while to find and send em though.

I'll send them by email if you pm it to me....seems to work better that way

[Dave]

Thanks Dave,

  I like the track, but its got a pop edge. Do you know the Jay Lewis - Love is Real on the same label? Fantastic heavy club R&B, worth a listen if you're open to R&B.

Simon

link

Hmmm...SNAS sounds better "in context", i.e. played out and played loud if you know what I mean

And yes, I like the Jay Lewis

Dave

[Guest remus]

Yes group harmonies are soul  - very much - but the statement was in relation to the Rockmasters and evidence of doo-wop on the record

This is the typical soul source way , to take something out of context away from the thread in question and to invent a moral highground for yourself

link

Your 'evidence' was group harmonies and group dynamics.

Let's not fall out over it, you think it's doo wop, I think it's Soul.

Nothing out of context there. It's only opinions, no right or wrongs, just opinions.

A.T.B.

[Supercorsa]

dreadful record get it the f*** off my scene, how the f*** is that a dancer, the record just about stops midway.

lets get back to basics

link

I thought my measly contribution to this thread had been overlooked.

How about the following records with regards to the original post on this topic??

Syl Johnson - Try Me

Big Joe Turner - Two Loves Have I

[Rbman]

Ray Charles - I Chose To Sing The Blues - ABC

Ray Charles - I Don't Need No Doctor - ABC

Ray Charles - Something Inside Me - ABC

Gladys Tyler - Little Bitty Girl - Decca

Gladys Tyler - Mr Green, Mrs Green - Decca

Little Milton - Sometimey - Checker

Little Milton - If Walls Could Talk - Checker

Z.Z Hill - No More Doggin' - Kent

Lowell Fulsom - My Aching Back - Kent

Lowell Fulsom - Talking Woman - Kent

Jimmy Robins - Shine It On - 20th Century

Buddy Ace - True Love Money Can't Buy - Duke

Bobby Bland - Lover With A Reputation - Duke

Bobby Bland - Getting Used To The Blues - Duke

......off the top of my head

Loads more where these came from.

link

All a good part of my play box!

[Platters 81]

Heres mine...........

PEGGY PAXTON ........"IT AINT WHAT I DO"....PAULA

LOWELL FULSOM......"TALKIN' WOMAN"........KENT

JAMES CARR......."ONLY FOOLS RUN AWAY"...GOLDWAX

RAY CHARLES..."I DONT NEED NO DOCTOR"...ABC

DONTELLS..."IN YOUR HEART"...................VEE JAY

TEMPTATIONS......"SLOW DOWN HEART"....GORDY

BIG DADDY ROGERS,,,,,"IM A BIG MAN".......MIDAS

A.C REED "MY BABYS BEEN CHEATING"....COOL

LITTLE WALTER..."MY BABE".....CHECKER

DEREK MARTIN..."IF YOU GO"......SUE

[Makemvinyl]

Good point Shane...so easy to go off thread

Well starting with my list how many would be in yours?  I'm happy to remove "Sweeter...."  but my ears and feet tell me that The Champion is RnB and not "Bollocks"

link

ClassChampion as r n b then u have to incorporate,DRIVING BEAT, EVERYTHINGS GONNA BE ALRIGHT,BUSTER BROWN,20/75,SOUL SERENADE,AND anything else that came out of the HI records studio in MEMPHIS,ANN PEEBLES,AL GREEN,SYL JOHNSON,too name a few,

The Champion out and out pop/soul hammered in the 70's rejected in the 60's

as not dance floor freindly,

,doo wop,rock n roll,add th this then the following record

Beggin for your love Eldridge Holmes

raw harmonica great vocals,what do I class this as

Music for the ear of the listener/dancer its your own choice no matter what crosses over

Doug

Edited June 17, 2005 by MAKEMVINYL

[Sebastian]

Dave, that avatar of yours, a copy of Trini Lopez "Sinner Not A Saint" on DRA ... I've never seen it on that label! Fantastic tune in my opinion. My US copy is on United Modern. It apparently also got some euro and UK issues. What's the catalogue number on your DRA copy? Trini's other 45 on DRA is from 1961, and the United Modern issue is from 1965 so I guess that the DRA copy is the original. Any info would be nice.

By the way, love Jessie Mae's "Don't Freeze On Me" on DRA, nice storming piece of r&b.

[Dave]

Dave, that avatar of yours, a copy of Trini Lopez "Sinner Not A Saint" on DRA ... I've never seen it on that label!  Fantastic tune in my opinion. My US copy is on United Modern. It apparently also got some euro and UK issues. What's the catalogue number on your DRA copy? Trini's other 45 on DRA is from 1961, and the United Modern issue is from 1965 so I guess that the DRA copy is the original. Any info would be nice.

By the way, love Jessie Mae's "Don't Freeze On Me" on DRA, nice storming piece of r&b.

link

DRA- 7017- 1.....Promo.

Flip is Where Can My Baby Be.

[Markw]

I don't wanna bin the whole R n B thing as there are some superb records, but so much of it is pants to my ears and sounds like Vic Reeves doing his pub singer thing............"Eeeef a ewe dun currrrmmm........weeealll........ewed bitta curlll.........."

[Guest remus]

I don't wanna bin the whole R n B thing as there are some superb records, but so much of it is pants to my ears and sounds like Vic Reeves doing his pub singer thing............"Eeeef a ewe dun currrrmmm........weeealll........ewed bitta curlll.........."

link

HAAAAAAALV LUUUUURVE...........WILL TRAVEEEEEEEL

[Guest the dukester]

What are your top ten RnB records that have crossed over to be Northern Soul floor fillers?

NOT TEN JUST ONE

CLYDE MC PHATTER - LOVE YOU TILL THE COWS COME HOME -MERCURY

[Markw]

Crossed over??!!!

This stuff should be crossed out, scratched, deleted, trashed, binned..........it ain't soul...........jeez! it ain't even Northern..............it's horrible........I'd rather hear the old pop stompers than this..............bring back Kiki Dee.............Barbara Redd, Betty O'Brien, Larry Trider, Pearl Woods................leave it where it belongs..........with the Teds and the Mods (my brother and sister were Mods in the 60s.....they would have laughed at most of this crap)................why can't there be more decent 70s stuff played (there's so much good stuff) instead of scraping the barrel for this grim material??!! .....................

[Guest ShaneH]

as i have said before I would rather hear good rnb than wishy washy 70s or soul sam disco stuff.

How come rnb gets a real slating on here but the barrel scraping modern being played gets away with it?

You also have to remember that this is a dance scene therefore it doesnt have to be ultra-soulful to be played. All these people who knock rnb and crave more soulful stuff constantly praise the likes of the mello souls which isnt that soulful at all. They were a white garage band if i am right? They sound like one for deffo!

I would like to add that I am not the biggest fan of rnb but i do frequent the rnb rooms quite regular due to the circles I mix in. I can admire the quality being played in there and if you take the time to listen many will be surprised how good it can be. You will also see the better dancers in these rooms rather than the slow-motion shuffling 70's fans. imo of course.

Shane

[Guest Richard Bergman]

Your 'evidence' was group harmonies and group dynamics.

Let's not fall out over it, you think it's doo wop, I think it's Soul.

Nothing out of context there. It's only opinions, no right or wrongs, just opinions.

A.T.B.

link

No mate it's just healthy discussion and as you state there only opinions at the end of the day who knows what makes a record fall into certain genres anyway and is there any way of being 110 % sure anyway

It's good to be questioning others we'd all be in Wetherspoon's imitating the Crazy Frog !!!

Ps - it's a bloody ace record and is up on Pat Brady's site now for £300

Speak soon

Richard Bergman

Edited June 17, 2005 by Richard Bergman

[Guest Baz]

How come rnb gets a real slating on here but the barrel scraping modern being played gets away with it?

link

have to agree with you on this shane. i do love some of the soulful 70's stuff but most of the things that hit 'BIG' are not half as good as a bit of good ol' R&B dont know why alot of people knock it, proberly because its more gritty/dirty kind of sound and can we PLEASE call it R&S rhythm & soul

Edited June 17, 2005 by Baz

[Guest remus]

as i have said before I would rather hear good rnb than wishy washy 70s or soul sam disco stuff.

How come rnb gets a real slating on here but the barrel scraping modern being played gets away with it?

You also have to remember that this is a dance scene therefore it doesnt have to be ultra-soulful to be played. All these people who knock rnb and crave more soulful stuff constantly praise the likes of the mello souls which isnt that soulful at all. They were a white garage band if i am right? They sound like one for deffo!

I would like to add that I am not the biggest fan of rnb but i do frequent the rnb rooms quite regular due to the circles I mix in. I can admire the quality being played in there and if you take the time to listen many will be surprised how good it can be. You will also see the better dancers in these rooms rather than the slow-motion shuffling 70's fans. imo of course.

Shane

link

I'd rather hear wishy washy soul sam 7t's stuff than all that red kneck, barn dancing, rock'a'billy, pub singer, dolly pardon , vic reeves sound alike shit any day!.......

95% of it is SHIT..........it's teddy boy be-bop pony.

It's only

[Guest Baz]

I'd rather hear wishy washy soul sam 7t's stuff than all that red kneck, barn dancing, rock'a'billy, pub singer, dolly pardon , vic reeves sound alike shit any day!.......

95% of it is SHIT..........it's teddy boy be-bop pony.

It's only

link

see alot of people here one bad R&S ( ) record and tent to tarnish all R&S ( )with the same brush and visa versa with modern/crossover. this is what i was on about the pigeon holeing thing on this thread. you cant say all R&S is shit you must have danced to doug banks in your time

not aimed at you remus as you say you like 5% it just seams to be the norm now adays

Edited June 17, 2005 by Baz

[Markw]

Well said John...................YEEHAW!! Ewe shaow gort a purtty mowth boy..........................keep it in the Teddy Boy rooms.

[Guest ShaneH]

see alot of people here one bad R&S ( ) record and tent to tarnish all R&S ( )with the same brush and visa versa with modern/crossover. this is what i was on about the pigeon holeing thing on this thread. you cant say all R&S is shit you must have danced to doug banks in your time  

not aimed at you remus as you say you like 5% it just seams to be the norm now adays

link

baz mate, you might as well aim it at remus cos I would

Thanks Remus, you confirmed what I was trying to say mate

Shane

ps I am also glad to hear that Soultown Andy, Andy Dyson and the rest of the forerunners of the upfront soul brigade are adding a good RnB room to their future ventures. This will be provided by Backbeat, the forerunners of the rnb scene.

Edited June 17, 2005 by ShaneH

[Markw]

you must have danced to doug banks in your time

link

I am pleased and proud to say, I have never danced to Doug Banks, nor will I. Frankly, I would rather dance to Barclays Bank..................it's less embarrassing.

[Guest Soultown andy]

Have to confess was a not always an r n b fan but spent a lot of time at the backbeat niters,listening to djs like joe dutton big hoss etc not all to my likeing but

some of it not bad at all,havein said that i like the wishy washy 70s stuff sam plays

which is why soultown prides itself on being a truly across the board niter.Think i will stay out of this thread now,back to you shane by the way cant wait for the greatstone m8 .

[Guest Baz]

I am pleased and proud to say, I have never danced to Doug Banks, nor will I. Frankly, I would rather dance to Barclays Bank..................it's less embarrassing.

link

well that's your loss sir personly i think its a great record and one that first go me into the rare soul scene

[pikeys dog]

You will never change the opinion of Blinkered 'Northern' fans...

The same people that cry out at R&B being played are always the first ones to rush to the floor when something like Mickie Champion or The Five Royales are spun.

They don't understand R&B, so they automaticaly dislike it as it is 'different' (Until they've heard it 50 times and it gets under their skin).

At the end of the day, 60 R&B has much more in common with the 60s Stompers than any of the mid-late 70s proto Disco and 'Modern' Soul that DJs like Soul Sam spin - same artists, same backing groups, same production values.

There are many records that get spun under the name 'R&B' that I personaly dislike (more often than not white pop artists with the right beat), but the good tracks far outnumber the poor.

I don't dislike Modern Soul, I just cannot hack music that is directionless, meandering and without 'oomph!'

Tracks like:

The Pioneers - My Good Friend James

Kenny Thomas - Crazy World

Lisa Stansfield......

and so on.....

Edited June 17, 2005 by pikeys dog

[Dave]

as i have said before I would rather hear good rnb than wishy washy 70s or soul sam disco stuff.

How come rnb gets a real slating on here but the barrel scraping modern being played gets away with it?

You also have to remember that this is a dance scene therefore it doesnt have to be ultra-soulful to be played. All these people who knock rnb and crave more soulful stuff constantly praise the likes of the mello souls which isnt that soulful at all. They were a white garage band if i am right? They sound like one for deffo!

I would like to add that I am not the biggest fan of rnb but i do frequent the rnb rooms quite regular due to the circles I mix in. I can admire the quality being played in there and if you take the time to listen many will be surprised how good it can be. You will also see the better dancers in these rooms rather than the slow-motion shuffling 70's fans. imo of course.

Shane

link

Good post that Shane....thought I'd just say that before the soul police call for reinforcements now you've called into question the fashionable 70s disco and background music

Funny you should mention the Mello Souls. A good record, but would it have had the acclaim if it had been less rare and expensive?

I must say there is not the preoccupation with rarity, cost and who's playing the record on the R&B front that there seems to be in the up-front scene.

I think you are also right that most people go to R&B nights to dance, rather than stroke their chins

regards,

Dave

[Guest]

At the end of the day, 60 R&B has much more in common with the 60s Stompers than any of the mid-late 70s proto Disco and 'Modern' Soul that DJs like Soul Sam spin -  same artists, same backing groups, same production values.

link

Spot on Joe,spot on