Marc Forrest Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Some may have noticed the discussion(s) that were on here lately regarding Eddie Parker "Love You Baby". This has been solved by now so I don`t want to go there anymore.. BUT, as the question came up "are all copies of Eddie Parker with a staggered archer stamp bootlegs or not" the following may be of interest to most of us: Most tended to agree with JM and his statement that the staggered Archer stamp is identifying the bootleg. Me too. Some (or in fact two) said they tend to believe that these are legitimate releases from the Sixties as well. Tim Brown in his guide states the very same opinion as well and assuered me just last week his point of view again. So now just last night a closer inspection of the two copies of Eddie Parker at my place brought sth very interesting into light: they both do have a staggered Archer stamp BUT ...sth I never realized before... also carry the infamous 3W stamp which identifies them as legit Nashville pressed originals back from the Sixties! Just like this sign does identify Johnny Bragg "They Are Talking About me" originals for example. I think this is interesting news as we now can seriously say that the copies with a staggered Archer stamp are definitely originals too IF they do carry the 3W stamp! This stamp is VERY HARD to detect and is placed at five o`clock on both my copies, right under the letteres "O" and "I" of the name Detroit at the bottom of the label. So this may be good news now to everybody who has a staggered one in his collection. Especially me now as I agreed to take back a record that I did actually not even sell LOL! Marc Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
MarkWhiteley Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Some may have noticed the discussion(s) that were on here lately regarding Eddie Parker "Love You Baby". This has been solved by now so I don`t want to go there anymore.. BUT, as the question came up "are all copies of Eddie Parker with a staggered archer stamp bootlegs or not" the following may be of interest to most of us: Most tended to agree with JM and his statement that the staggered Archer stamp is identifying the bootleg. Me too. Some (or in fact two) said they tend to believe that these are legitimate releases from the Sixties as well. Tim Brown in his guide states the very same opinion as well and assuered me just last week his point of view again. So now just last night a closer inspection of the two copies of Eddie Parker at my place brought sth very interesting into light: they both do have a staggered Archer stamp BUT ...sth I never realized before... also carry the infamous 3W stamp which identifies them as legit Nashville pressed originals back from the Sixties! Just like this sign does identify Johnny Bragg "They Are Talking About me" originals for example. I think this is interesting news as we now can seriously say that the copies with a staggered Archer stamp are definitely originals too IF they do carry the 3W stamp! This stamp is VERY HARD to detect and is placed at five o`clock on both my copies, right under the letteres "O" and "I" of the name Detroit at the bottom of the label. So this may be good news now to everybody who has a staggered one in his collection. Especially me now as I agreed to take back a record that I did actually not even sell LOL! Marc Will you take some of my records back that you didn't sell me too Mark? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) too IF they do carry the 3W stamp! Edited June 4, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Marc Forrest Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Will you take some of my records back that you didn't sell me too Mark? no Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Marc Forrest Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 too IF they do carry the 3W stamp! I mentioned the 3W mark in a previous discussion about this topic, and Mr Manship said that if someone went to the trouble of making up an Archer stamp they could easily copy the 3W mark. So but why is JM using the 3W theory then to state what definies the Johnny Bragg originals for example? Tim Brown uses the theory, that nobody would have cared to reproduce an Archer stamp anyway simply because it would have been to difficult. Especially as there were (already?) bootlegs done (without any Archer stamp at all). The big Archer stamp Ashford has the same wide and tapered run in groove like big Archer stamped Westbound label releases. The small archer stamped Ashford has the wrong kind of run in groove, its to flat and not wide enough. The run in groove should look like Bari Track on Sound Impression (Archer Stamped) it's quite wide and tapers to a sharp edge. Interesting as one of said two copies has a wide® run out groove and the other has not. Still both have Archer stamp and 3W Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) So but why is JM using the 3W theory then to state what definies the Johnny Bragg originals for example? Edited June 4, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Marc Forrest Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) So but why is JM using the 3W theory then to state what definies the Johnny Bragg originals for example? Because there really are original records with the 3W mark, but it can be copied. Agreed, I believe these days nearly everything can be copied anyway. But still I don`t see why "there really are original records with the 3W mark" (Johnny Bragg) whereas Eddie Parker not. Especially as it doesn`t seem to have been wider knowledge at all that there is a 3W on those Ashford copies anyway. I would like to have someone now with an Archer copy not staggered to see if they do carry a 3W stamp. I think if they don`t we will have a further definite proof for the theory that the 3W copies are legitimate as no one who would have wanted to create a bootleg would have added a stamp that is not there on the "original", would he ? Marc Edited June 4, 2009 by Marc Forrest Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 too IF they do carry the 3W stamp! I mentioned the 3W mark in a previous discussion about this topic, and Mr Manship said that if someone went to the trouble of making up an Archer stamp they could easily copy the 3W mark. The big Archer stamp Ashford has the same wide and tapered run in groove like big Archer stamped Westbound label releases. The small archer stamped Ashford has the wrong kind of run in groove, its to flat and not wide enough. The run in groove should look like Bari Track on Sound Impression (Archer Stamped) it's quite wide and tapers to a sharp edge. And same if someone went to the trouble of making a A R C H E R stamp and the 3w would make sure the thing didnt stagger,i think they are real i would i have one. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Marc Forrest Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 And same if someone went to the trouble of making a A R C H E R stamp and the 3w would make sure the thing didnt stagger,i think they are real i would i have one. Ken, you know I have two...can easily let one go. 30 UKP and its yours mate. Marc Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Ken, you know I have two...can easily let one go. 30 UKP and its yours mate. Marc Read my reply again Marc,i have a staggered one allready Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Marc Forrest Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Read my reply again Marc,i have a staggered one allready Ouch, right Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) I would like to have someone now with an Archer copy not staggered to see if they do carry a 3W stamp. I think if they don`t we will have a further definite proof for the theory that the 3W copies are legitimate as no one who would have wanted to create a bootleg would have added a stamp that is not there on the "original", would he ? Marc I used to think like you about the 3W matrix being on the small Archer, but the 3W matrix mark is on the large stamped Archer! Most collectors will have blue Westbound records like Don't Walk Away/Lonely In A Crowd -Superlatives, that record is large ARCHER stamped and has the 3W matrix! Eddie Parker large Archer stamp has exactly the same kind of vinyl as the Westbounds, but the small stamped copies and the no stamped copies have different vinyl. A lot of this is just learning piece by piece and putting probability together, now if there was a Demo with a small staggered stamp that would change things!! Edited June 5, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ged Parker Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 And same if someone went to the trouble of making a A R C H E R stamp and the 3w would make sure the thing didnt stagger,i think they are real i would i have one. Perhaps the staggered Archer stamped ones with the 3W matrix were pressed by Archer? In fact you can still have Archer press records now and they will be Archer stamped. I believe the Archer stamp has changed over time but the different size run ins indicate the two Archer stamped versions were pressed many years apart. As someone has already said the other 60's Archer pressed records are similar to the large Archer version not only in terms of the Archer stamp (and 3W matrix) but also size of run in, vinyl profile etc. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Marc Forrest Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 All possible and all not possible of course. We will never ever know for sure IMO. Still the facts are that both staggerd ARCHER copies have different run out grooves...one being typical wider the other being smaller. So where does that leave us ? Also I still believe that the 3W matrix signature is a reliable indicator to its Sixties (Nashville) origin. But as I said, there were two opinions before this thread and I knew I would not be changing that....although I tried (my best) by revealing "new" facts. Marc Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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