Imagine What Would Happen If

[Quinvy]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters that we all attended. Say Stoke for us up north, one in Scotland, and maybe one in the deep South.....

Obviously they would have to be multi room affairs, because we are all less tolerant than we used to be. But looking at what's happening, with low attendances and less people actually dancing. The big social gatherings seem to be the only events that are doing well. I must admit that when I read that Mr Roberts is going to start a rare room at Stoke, I was thinking that my days of promoting could be numbered. Think about it, if done properly it could make people attend Stoke that wouldn't normally dream of going. And people are definitely going out less, and picking their nights out very carefully.....

It would be disastrous for the record dealers though, there would be big ticket records for sale everywhere.

What do you think?

[Guest]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters that we all attended. Say Stoke for us up north, one in Scotland, and maybe one in the deep South.....

Obviously they would have to be multi room affairs, because we are all less tolerant than we used to be. But looking at what's happening, with low attendances and less people actually dancing. The big social gatherings seem to be the only events that are doing well. I must admit that when I read that Mr Roberts is going to start a rare room at Stoke, I was thinking that my days of promoting could be numbered. Think about it, if done properly it could make people attend Stoke that wouldn't normally dream of going. And people are definitely going out less, and picking their nights out very carefully.....

It would be disastrous for the record dealers though, there would be big ticket records for sale everywhere.

What do you think?

already waiting

[Guest kevnewry]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters that we all attended. Say Stoke for us up north, one in Scotland, and maybe one in the deep South.....

Obviously they would have to be multi room affairs, because we are all less tolerant than we used to be. But looking at what's happening, with low attendances and less people actually dancing. The big social gatherings seem to be the only events that are doing well. I must admit that when I read that Mr Roberts is going to start a rare room at Stoke, I was thinking that my days of promoting could be numbered. Think about it, if done properly it could make people attend Stoke that wouldn't normally dream of going. And people are definitely going out less, and picking their nights out very carefully.....

It would be disastrous for the record dealers though, there would be big ticket records for sale everywhere.

What do you think?

I AGREE WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS.... BUT ISNT THAT THE WAY IT USED TO BE ONCE UPON A TIME ALTHOUGH WE WER'NT AS CHOOSY THEN

[Guest]

I AGREE WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS.... BUT ISNT THAT THE WAY IT USED TO BE ONCE UPON A TIME ALTHOUGH WE WER'NT AS CHOOSY THEN

And the day will come when all 60s Soul record collectors will be happy with just collecting 45s and enjoying that personal collecting experience !

And not wanting to become the local Butch just because they have spent 500 quid on a record !

Of course the scene will shrink to what it was back in the 1980s with only a few big nights to go to ! Thats only a matter of time !

I might get off my arse and go out again if this happens!

Mossy

[Cunnie]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters that we all attended. Say Stoke for us up north, one in Scotland, and maybe one in the deep South.....

Obviously they would have to be multi room affairs, because we are all less tolerant than we used to be. But looking at what's happening, with low attendances and less people actually dancing. The big social gatherings seem to be the only events that are doing well. I must admit that when I read that Mr Roberts is going to start a rare room at Stoke, I was thinking that my days of promoting could be numbered. Think about it, if done properly it could make people attend Stoke that wouldn't normally dream of going. And people are definitely going out less, and picking their nights out very carefully.....

It would be disastrous for the record dealers though, there would be big ticket records for sale everywhere.

What do you think?

Can't see the Wigleys, Croasdells, Mcabes etc of this world standing by & let this happen somehow.

Not only that but it's a totally different kettle of fish nowadays as a lot of folks are just as happy to attend local nights & probably travel to attend the so called bigger events once every couple of months or so.

Kings Hall has a Modern Room & has clashed with our nights in the past & it hasn't really affected us that much.

Keep on doing what you think is right as it seems you are doing at Burnley & the folks will keep on supporting your event & the people who want the bigger events will carry on doing what they're doing.

Still plenty of folks out there who prefer the smaller more intimate events.

[Guest kevnewry]

And the day will come when all 60s Soul record collectors will be happy with just collecting 45s and enjoying that personal collecting experience !

And not wanting to become the local Butch just because they have spent 500 quid on a record !

Of course the scene will shrink to what it was back in the 1980s with only a few big nights to go to ! Thats only a matter of time !

I might get off my arse and go out again if this happens!

Mossy

[Mace]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters that we all attended. Say Stoke for us up north, one in Scotland, and maybe one in the deep South.....

Obviously they would have to be multi room affairs, because we are all less tolerant than we used to be. But looking at what's happening, with low attendances and less people actually dancing. The big social gatherings seem to be the only events that are doing well. I must admit that when I read that Mr Roberts is going to start a rare room at Stoke, I was thinking that my days of promoting could be numbered. Think about it, if done properly it could make people attend Stoke that wouldn't normally dream of going. And people are definitely going out less, and picking their nights out very carefully.....

It would be disastrous for the record dealers though, there would be big ticket records for sale everywhere.

What do you think?

I actually think it's a good thing that Kings Hall is opening a rare room, I will deffo start going again for this reason alone (though hoping they will allow record sales in rare room cus I really don't wanna sit on the balcony listening to the main room playlists).

I don't see why you worry if it will affect your promotions Phil, I'm certainly not worried that it will have any impact on Bidds and it's only 4 miles away from me.

As well as it's strong support from nationwide oldies fans, Kings Hall attracts a lot of local support from old soulies/mods/scooterists, many of whom go nowhere else the rest of the year.

I see such faces in there that I ain't seen for donkeys years, as well as guys I've worked with who go along hoping to hear Motown and James Brown etc but still have a great night cus of the atmosphere.

The fact that those who travel to more upfront venues may start frequenting KH again for this 3rd room doesn't mean (IMO) they will stop attending the venues they used to to hear such tunes...after all, it's only on 4 or 5 times a year.

[Guest]

I actually think it's a good thing that Kings Hall is opening a rare room, I will deffo start going again for this reason alone (though hoping they will allow record sales in rare room cus I really don't wanna sit on the balcony listening to the main room playlists).

Why not ? You might hear somthing new !

And anyway .............. no one in the rare room would be intrested in your sales box

[Mace]

Why not ? You might hear somthing new !

And anyway .............. no one in the rare room would be intrested in your sales box

had a beer or three have we....

I might hear something new, but more likely Something new to do

...but you're right about me sales box.....God loves a tryer though

[Guest Bicks]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters that we all attended. Say Stoke for us up north, one in Scotland, and maybe one in the deep South.....

Obviously they would have to be multi room affairs, because we are all less tolerant than we used to be. But looking at what's happening, with low attendances and less people actually dancing. The big social gatherings seem to be the only events that are doing well. I must admit that when I read that Mr Roberts is going to start a rare room at Stoke, I was thinking that my days of promoting could be numbered. Think about it, if done properly it could make people attend Stoke that wouldn't normally dream of going. And people are definitely going out less, and picking their nights out very carefully.....

It would be disastrous for the record dealers though, there would be big ticket records for sale everywhere.

What do you think?

Stoke IS the deep south isn't it???

[Little-stevie]

Good points Phil...

Nothing would get me through the door at KH and i am sure many others feel the same... I like the independant side to the scene and not some big promoter who wants to stamp a brand around the country...

I think some promoters will have to put on joint events in the future for all niters but it don't have to be under the gold soul brand or any other...

The underground side to the scene will keep going, it will just need tweaking and promoters sitting down with each other and maybe less events but better organised ones...

Time will tell...

Good topic..

[Johnmcc]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters............

What do you think?

[Johnmcc]

Or

They'll never take our FREEDOM!

[Jumpinjoan]

I'm with Stevie, I definitely won't be going to KGH, rare room or no rare room.

Just pray there is no chance of your nightmare scenario coming true Phil

[Guest]

Just trying to imagine what would happen if all the small events around the country closed their doors, and we had just say three big allnighters that we all attended. Say Stoke for us up north, one in Scotland, and maybe one in the deep South.....

Obviously they would have to be multi room affairs, because we are all less tolerant than we used to be. But looking at what's happening, with low attendances and less people actually dancing. The big social gatherings seem to be the only events that are doing well. I must admit that when I read that Mr Roberts is going to start a rare room at Stoke, I was thinking that my days of promoting could be numbered. Think about it, if done properly it could make people attend Stoke that wouldn't normally dream of going. And people are definitely going out less, and picking their nights out very carefully.....

It would be disastrous for the record dealers though, there would be big ticket records for sale everywhere.

What do you think?

nah, I think there is another way of looking at it. For these big events to get 'the best DJ's' etc, the DJ's need to come through from somewhere.. smaller local gigs (soul nites or niters) are surely where all the top guys start isn't it? (Unless they buy their way in). No idea if this is true, it's just a suggestion..

Jayne.x

[KevH]

or maybe Phil,,,,,its time for the scene to go more underground.?Would word of mouth work nowadays?

Yes there's lots of venues vying for bodies,but choice has never been so good..........has it?.

What if some smaller venues closed their doors,and joined forces with other small clubs.One or two big Small clubs.

Still playing what the hell they like ,trying to be"Butch" .Is that the future?

[Paulb]

Kings Hall is an oldies night in the true sense of the word. I couldn't imagine a proper rare room taking off there. It may be labled as a rare room but the rare soul fans will stick to the true rare soul events and rightly so. Why would anyone want to mix the two? Two totally different views from each camp of what the music is and what it means to them. The nostalgia thing is argueably bigger than the rare scene but these are two very, very different scenes. Well, one is a scene and the other is more of a gathering for starters.

Plus Kings Hall is a very successful night so why change it? I can't imagine a rare room would add many punters as a lot of rare fans are very anti KH anyway. Oldies nights aren't my cup of tea but I don't have a problem with the oldies events as such. Each to their own and all that. But if you ask me, keep the two apart.

[Paulb]

Here's an idea Phil. Why don't you have a word with the Kestral Suite about having downstairs as an oldies room? Then everyone will flock to Burnley, Kev Roberts will end up going out of business and you suddenly have the northern soul monopoly. Next stop, world domination!

[Suzannek]

Stoke IS the deep south isn't it???

Yes, particularly to us lot in the North East of England.

Suz

x

[Quinvy]

Here's an idea Phil. Why don't you have a word with the Kestral Suite about having downstairs as an oldies room? Then everyone will flock to Burnley, Kev Roberts will end up going out of business and you suddenly have the northern soul monopoly. Next stop, world domination!

YES!!!!!!! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT..... thanks Paul, look out Kev Roberts.

[Little-stevie]

YES!!!!!!! WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT..... thanks Paul, look out Kev Roberts.

Burnley in the Prem and now Burnley the center for soul... Go for it Phil...

Edited May 28, 2009 by little-stevie

[Goldsoul]

Here's an idea Phil. Why don't you have a word with the Kestral Suite about having downstairs as an oldies room? Then everyone will flock to Burnley, Kev Roberts will end up going out of business and you suddenly have the northern soul monopoly. Next stop, world domination!

Enough already..... Soul Sam and Butch brought the idea to us, not the other way round.

If it works fine, but world domination! Cmon get a grip

We are professional promoters with a passion for the music too.

Best of luck to Middleton, Lifeline and other venues who

promote Northern Soul. We are no different to any other event organisers trying to make a success while enjoying the social and musical aspect.

If the Upfront room works fine, if not, no problem.

Soul Sam and Butch are the hirers and firers in that particular room.

As Mace says, it won't make much difference to other promoters, unless someone clashes, which my friends is inevitable.

[Quinvy]

Just going off topic a bit Kev. What sort of size is that room? I've never been to Stoke.

I'm off to email Butch now and ask him for a spot.

[Guest]

Kings Hall is an oldies night in the true sense of the word. I couldn't imagine a proper rare room taking off there. It may be labled as a rare room but the rare soul fans will stick to the true rare soul events and rightly so. Why would anyone want to mix the two? Two totally different views from each camp of what the music is and what it means to them. The nostalgia thing is argueably bigger than the rare scene but these are two very, very different scenes. Well, one is a scene and the other is more of a gathering for starters.

Plus Kings Hall is a very successful night so why change it? I can't imagine a rare room would add many punters as a lot of rare fans are very anti KH anyway. Oldies nights aren't my cup of tea but I don't have a problem with the oldies events as such. Each to their own and all that. But if you ask me, keep the two apart.

I don't see as being any different to the policy at the November blackpool weekender. From what I read on here The Merrie England offers people something rare / different and obviously the main room is predominently Oldies and the feedback on here has been very positive for that combination. It works at many other venue's too.

Jayne.x

Edited May 28, 2009 by Miss BurySoul

[Goldsoul]

Just going off topic a bit Kev. What sort of size is that room? I've never been to Stoke.

I'm off to email Butch now and ask him for a spot.

The room is small. 150 max

Yep. Butch and Sam are the guvnors regarding that room.

Best of luck with your job application!

[Mace]

If the Upfront room works fine, if not, no problem.

As a matter of interest (and I'm honestly not trying to be a cock here) , will it be a pushed as a rare room or an upfront room?

Sounds picky I 'm sure, but will the DJs be encouraged to play just the rare biggies (that may not work in the main room) so as to fill the dancefloor, or push out unknowns and new discoveries even if the dancefloor suffers?

Seriously hoping for it will be the latter, for all the right reasons......

[Dysonsoul]

Enough already..... Soul Sam and Butch brought the idea to us, not the other way round.

If it works fine, but world domination! Cmon get a grip

We are professional promoters with a passion for the music too.

Best of luck to Middleton, Lifeline and other venues who

promote Northern Soul. We are no different to any other event organisers trying to make a success while enjoying the social and musical aspect.

If the Upfront room works fine, if not, no problem.

Soul Sam and Butch are the hirers and firers in that particular room.

As Mace says, it won't make much difference to other promoters, unless someone clashes, which my friends is inevitable.

You know i sometimes struggle to get it , next year your february date clashes with ours and we got a couple of the same residents ie the 2 dj's named above ,so how does that work ? but it's nice of you to wish us the best of luck in one line then point out that clashes are inevitable in the next ... inevitable but avoidable if one plans things out.

anyways will be a few of us in on saturday one of the girls birthdays...will kev be there ?

[Goldsoul]

As a matter of interest (and I'm honestly not trying to be a cock here) , will it be a pushed as a rare room or an upfront room?

Sounds picky I 'm sure, but will the DJs be encouraged to play just the rare biggies (that may not work in the main room) so as to fill the dancefloor, or push out unknowns and new discoveries even if the dancefloor suffers?

Seriously hoping for it will be the latter, for all the right reasons......

Best ask Sam or Butch. We have given them a room to develop an alternative to the main room.

If it works....we will be happy for them.

The paying public at least get the best deal. No extra cost for 3 rooms.

Let's see what happens.

[Goldsoul]

You know i sometimes struggle to get it , next year your february date clashes with ours and we got a couple of the same residents ie the 2 dj's named above ,so how does that work ? but it's nice of you to wish us the best of luck in one line then point out that clashes are inevitable in the next ... inevitable but avoidable if one plans things out.

anyways will be a few of us in on saturday one of the girls birthdays...will kev be there ?

Andy.....Kev here. Look forward to seeing you

on Sat.

[Little-stevie]

Had a chat with a few folk over the last week about whats going on..

The coming together of smaller rare soul clubs in the same area is a good solution... Alternating between the two venues each month.. Makes sense but then some residents would have to step ndown maybe.. And we know that aint gonna be easy for some

Good luck Phil with Burnley, we know its a tough game and aint no let up for all niter in events for 2010..

The all niter world is the boxing ring, gloves off Mr Quinvy and come out snarling

All the best

Steve

[Guest Krissii]

hmmm....

the reason i stopped going to KH is because of the stuff that was getting played....

im 26, got into this when i was 13 14 (although id heard times a wastin etc before that even) and around 97 98 when i went to my first nighters the tunes were amazing... upbeat emotional soul that dragged me into a different place... i could relate to the people on the casino itv docs talking of sneaking out and getting their musical fix... it was amazing

but then it seemed to shift almost overnight... everyone wanted to play kurt harris style tunes for the exact reason someone has stated above - "they'd just spent £500 on a record and wanted to be the local butch"... i understand obviously that new discoveries are keeping the scene healthy, but then again i think your main room people have drifted off a bit because i think that some of them miss what it was all about to begin with... there has definitely been a big shift from hair raising tunes to hair raising labels and rarity... some people get their fix from holding the 7'', but most of us get more from actually throwing it on a platter and getting the talc out!

i really dont wish to offend anyone, i love the record collecting side of soul and the fact that everyone is so knowledgable about the background of the records they own, but still, some people would definitely like to hear the original tunes that gave them freedom from life, even if theyre "played out" to others....

just my opinion anyway....

[Suinoz]

hmmm....

the reason i stopped going to KH is because of the stuff that was getting played....

im 26, got into this when i was 13 14 (although id heard times a wastin etc before that even) and around 97 98 when i went to my first nighters the tunes were amazing... upbeat emotional soul that dragged me into a different place... i could relate to the people on the casino itv docs talking of sneaking out and getting their musical fix... it was amazing

but then it seemed to shift almost overnight... everyone wanted to play kurt harris style tunes for the exact reason someone has stated above - "they'd just spent £500 on a record and wanted to be the local butch"... i understand obviously that new discoveries are keeping the scene healthy, but then again i think your main room people have drifted off a bit because i think that some of them miss what it was all about to begin with... there has definitely been a big shift from hair raising tunes to hair raising labels and rarity... some people get their fix from holding the 7'', but most of us get more from actually throwing it on a platter and getting the talc out!

i really dont wish to offend anyone, i love the record collecting side of soul and the fact that everyone is so knowledgable about the background of the records they own, but still, some people would definitely like to hear the original tunes that gave them freedom from life, even if theyre "played out" to others....

just my opinion anyway....

Well bloody said !!

[Quinvy]

hmmm....

the reason i stopped going to KH is because of the stuff that was getting played....

im 26, got into this when i was 13 14 (although id heard times a wastin etc before that even) and around 97 98 when i went to my first nighters the tunes were amazing... upbeat emotional soul that dragged me into a different place... i could relate to the people on the casino itv docs talking of sneaking out and getting their musical fix... it was amazing

but then it seemed to shift almost overnight... everyone wanted to play kurt harris style tunes for the exact reason someone has stated above - "they'd just spent £500 on a record and wanted to be the local butch"... i understand obviously that new discoveries are keeping the scene healthy, but then again i think your main room people have drifted off a bit because i think that some of them miss what it was all about to begin with... there has definitely been a big shift from hair raising tunes to hair raising labels and rarity... some people get their fix from holding the 7'', but most of us get more from actually throwing it on a platter and getting the talc out!

i really dont wish to offend anyone, i love the record collecting side of soul and the fact that everyone is so knowledgable about the background of the records they own, but still, some people would definitely like to hear the original tunes that gave them freedom from life, even if theyre "played out" to others....

just my opinion anyway....

That's a very interesting post.....I've never been to the Kings Hall, so I can't really comment on what is played there. But I thought that mainly the classic tunes were played i.e. the ones that you love to hear? I thought that was the ethos of the place?

Just out of interest, where are you located? and where do you go now?

Another point I would make, is that you are much younger than the majority on the scene. We all started out wanting to dance....not any more.....I would say the majority now do not dance, or maybe only to an occasional favourite tune.....on the other hand, we all want to DJ....

The point I was trying to make with my post was....would we all attend just a few large allnighters if that's all there was? who would the DJ's be? and what would happen to all the thousands of supposedly rare records that would suddenly come onto the market? it was just a bit of fun really, as it will never happen.....or will it.

[Guest Krissii]

originally cheshire/manchester areas, now all over the place... i havent been to a proper night for a while though...

i think that youve hit the nail on the head though. no one really WANTS to dance anymore, its more of a community thing now by the look of it, which is a shame to me...

as someone who doesnt remember the original venues, id love to go somewhere that recreates the original vibe, some of you need to be educating us next generation of soulies though if you all want to DJ that much lol

im serious now about buying a legit collection bit by bit all on original issue vinyl, its nice to have the exclusivity to the cd releases but its not real to me... i know why everyone wants to be a dj all of a sudden, but like i say, you (the people from the wheel/casino/torch/mecca/100/wherever) NEED to pass on your knowledge to the next generation of what packed the floors out at the places you escaped to every weekend!

ive found all the original casino tapes on the refosoul thing, and listening to Gary Rushbrooke (1980) ive realised that I really dont know ANY of the songs on it apart from one (gary sole - holdin on - although he says its by someone else so i dont even know which was the c/u name now!)

i love the uptempo yet soulful tunes on it though, ive got a lot of goldmine cds and im sure i havent ever heard any of these on them (maybe one or two that ive missed... i dont know maybe i just didnt hear them right on compilations...?)

i was listening to a searling one before that had salsoul tunes on it as well, i had NO IDEA them kind of tunes were ever spun at the casino, and im even more fascinated now to get tunes that people already love and dont remember rather than discover the next amazing slow dancer that sounds like the last slow dancer etc etc....

it must be really amazing to be your generation.. can you see anyone in their 20s looking back at their memories when they get to your age with the fondness you all do? i cant see it meself...

as i said in 1st post... really dont wanna offend anyone, to you the tunes from 1973-1980 are old and maybe dead, but how many plays did it take before you got there? i just wanna get in on that original vibe, its obviously kept you all hooked this long, and i refuse to believe that dobie gray and tony clarke and al wilson etc were spun all night... there HAS to be more ive never heard!

also id love to know WHEN tunes were discovered, i dont have any knowledge of when copies of things actually turned up, only when they were made what label they were on (and i try my best to remember cat no's without much success lol)

rambling now... original point was yeah im too young to remember so im desperate for an experience of the real casino / the real wheel etc at some point in my life! im addicted to these casino tapes!

if you dont fancy the stompers anymore, sell them all to me for £1 each... come on... theyre played out anyway...

kb

ps to go back to your original post - if there was a massive nighter in the north with a massive crowd and loads of different rooms id be there! but the main room would have to play lou pride for me lol

Edited June 5, 2009 by Krissii

[Quinvy]

originally cheshire/manchester areas, now all over the place... i havent been to a proper night for a while though...

i think that youve hit the nail on the head though. no one really WANTS to dance anymore, its more of a community thing now by the look of it, which is a shame to me...

as someone who doesnt remember the original venues, id love to go somewhere that recreates the original vibe, some of you need to be educating us next generation of soulies though if you all want to DJ that much lol

im serious now about buying a legit collection bit by bit all on original issue vinyl, its nice to have the exclusivity to the cd releases but its not real to me... i know why everyone wants to be a dj all of a sudden, but like i say, you (the people from the wheel/casino/torch/mecca/100/wherever) NEED to pass on your knowledge to the next generation of what packed the floors out at the places you escaped to every weekend!

ive found all the original casino tapes on the refosoul thing, and listening to Gary Rushbrooke (1980) ive realised that I really dont know ANY of the songs on it apart from one (gary sole - holdin on - although he says its by someone else so i dont even know which was the c/u name now!)

i love the uptempo yet soulful tunes on it though, ive got a lot of goldmine cds and im sure i havent ever heard any of these on them (maybe one or two that ive missed... i dont know maybe i just didnt hear them right on compilations...?)

i was listening to a searling one before that had salsoul tunes on it as well, i had NO IDEA them kind of tunes were ever spun at the casino, and im even more fascinated now to get tunes that people already love and dont remember rather than discover the next amazing slow dancer that sounds like the last slow dancer etc etc....

it must be really amazing to be your generation.. can you see anyone in their 20s looking back at their memories when they get to your age with the fondness you all do? i cant see it meself...

as i said in 1st post... really dont wanna offend anyone, to you the tunes from 1973-1980 are old and maybe dead, but how many plays did it take before you got there? i just wanna get in on that original vibe, its obviously kept you all hooked this long, and i refuse to believe that dobie gray and tony clarke and al wilson etc were spun all night... there HAS to be more ive never heard!

also id love to know WHEN tunes were discovered, i dont have any knowledge of when copies of things actually turned up, only when they were made what label they were on (and i try my best to remember cat no's without much success lol)

rambling now... original point was yeah im too young to remember so im desperate for an experience of the real casino / the real wheel etc at some point in my life! im addicted to these casino tapes!

if you dont fancy the stompers anymore, sell them all to me for £1 each... come on... theyre played out anyway...

kb

ps to go back to your original post - if there was a massive nighter in the north with a massive crowd and loads of different rooms id be there! but the main room would have to play lou pride for me lol

Nice post KB. I honestly thought that the Kings Hall did play all the big tunes from the past? Maybe like a lot of soul nights that I've attended, they seem to stick to the Casino playlist? Rather than the Wheel, Catacombs, Torch and early Mecca stuff.

I don't know what the answer is for you, as I don't attend that kind of event. Surely someone on here will reccomend a night that would be up your street. Maybe post up a list of your fave tunes just to give us an idea of where you are at, musically? Just a shame that you aren't going out anymore....

Phil.

[Guest Bearsy]

originally cheshire/manchester areas, now all over the place... i havent been to a proper night for a while though...

i think that youve hit the nail on the head though. no one really WANTS to dance anymore, its more of a community thing now by the look of it, which is a shame to me...

as someone who doesnt remember the original venues, id love to go somewhere that recreates the original vibe, some of you need to be educating us next generation of soulies though if you all want to DJ that much lol

im serious now about buying a legit collection bit by bit all on original issue vinyl, its nice to have the exclusivity to the cd releases but its not real to me... i know why everyone wants to be a dj all of a sudden, but like i say, you (the people from the wheel/casino/torch/mecca/100/wherever) NEED to pass on your knowledge to the next generation of what packed the floors out at the places you escaped to every weekend!

ive found all the original casino tapes on the refosoul thing, and listening to Gary Rushbrooke (1980) ive realised that I really dont know ANY of the songs on it apart from one (gary sole - holdin on - although he says its by someone else so i dont even know which was the c/u name now!)

i love the uptempo yet soulful tunes on it though, ive got a lot of goldmine cds and im sure i havent ever heard any of these on them (maybe one or two that ive missed... i dont know maybe i just didnt hear them right on compilations...?)

i was listening to a searling one before that had salsoul tunes on it as well, i had NO IDEA them kind of tunes were ever spun at the casino, and im even more fascinated now to get tunes that people already love and dont remember rather than discover the next amazing slow dancer that sounds like the last slow dancer etc etc....

it must be really amazing to be your generation.. can you see anyone in their 20s looking back at their memories when they get to your age with the fondness you all do? i cant see it meself...

as i said in 1st post... really dont wanna offend anyone, to you the tunes from 1973-1980 are old and maybe dead, but how many plays did it take before you got there? i just wanna get in on that original vibe, its obviously kept you all hooked this long, and i refuse to believe that dobie gray and tony clarke and al wilson etc were spun all night... there HAS to be more ive never heard!

also id love to know WHEN tunes were discovered, i dont have any knowledge of when copies of things actually turned up, only when they were made what label they were on (and i try my best to remember cat no's without much success lol)

rambling now... original point was yeah im too young to remember so im desperate for an experience of the real casino / the real wheel etc at some point in my life! im addicted to these casino tapes!

if you dont fancy the stompers anymore, sell them all to me for £1 each... come on... theyre played out anyway...

kb

ps to go back to your original post - if there was a massive nighter in the north with a massive crowd and loads of different rooms id be there! but the main room would have to play lou pride for me lol

Quality post Krissi, ive not long been in the scene either really (few years) a bit of a late comer as they say but all i did was go anywhere i could get too and just had to learn the hard way what suited me better, put post up asking about any venues that may suit your desires and location, there are loads out there and peeps will soon let you know and when you find a few that suit you and you get to know what djs and venues do it for you your laughing all the way to the dance floor

[Reg]

had a beer or three have we....

I might hear something new, but more likely Something new to do

...but you're right about me sales box.....God loves a tryer though

Ah that cracked me up....

[Guest SteveC]

Quality post Krissi - unfortunately lots of folk are biased as to what they want to hear (inc myself at times) but that should hopefully be down to how long they've been on the scene, where they're from and subsequently what were popular/overplayed sounds in their area.

I often reminisce of the days when you walked in a venue - chucked your badge covered bag in a corner, danced for 8 hours, and then went home. No chit chat (therefore no politics) etc but that was when nearly all the sounds were fresh to me.

Folk that have been on the scene for a while have probably heard a lot of sounds and some will be on a crusade to keep it fresh (my category) and some will just want to hear the same tunes that that evoked the passion they had in days gone by. Each to their own - to add to the melting pot there are folk like Bearsy who have entered the scene later on in life who have that experience I am envious of, of not knowing whether something is an oldie/newie/reactivated sound just by listening to it. There is a fine balance for a promoter to strike.

[Guest Scarborosoul]

Good post KB.....BUT there are still those of us around that were there who still just want to DANCE. Ive been a soulie 1973 - still going. I dont do soul nightes just nighters and all I do is dance.

There really is nowhere now with the kind of vibe the Casino had many have tried all failed. No disrespect to promoters/djs it was something that could never be repeated.

BUT on saying that dont be put off. The scene is still if not more vibrant now than in those days. I was at Crewe all nighter a few weeks ago in the oldies room nearly all night and it was fantastic. There is still plenty out there to entertain you but the vibe of the 70s is something that exclusivly belongs to those of us that were there and no matter what we say or try to explain, it would never be enough to truely give you a real idea of what it was like.

The sheer atmospere and comraderie of places like the casino or cleethorpes. What you need to do is listen to the tapes, watch the videos and imagine!!

and even then it will never be enough. Compare it to the first moon landing, only those guys who were on the moon will ever really know that experience. This is the same.

Sorry if that may dissapoint you but its something you will have to live with. As for me im just gonna take 10mins to remember the first time I walked up those stairs got scowled at by Mrs Woods and felt the sheer atmospere of the WIGAN CASINO.

Rick

[Jez Jones]

originally cheshire/manchester areas, now all over the place... i havent been to a proper night for a while though...

i think that youve hit the nail on the head though. no one really WANTS to dance anymore, its more of a community thing now by the look of it, which is a shame to me...

as someone who doesnt remember the original venues, id love to go somewhere that recreates the original vibe, some of you need to be educating us next generation of soulies though if you all want to DJ that much lol

im serious now about buying a legit collection bit by bit all on original issue vinyl, its nice to have the exclusivity to the cd releases but its not real to me... i know why everyone wants to be a dj all of a sudden, but like i say, you (the people from the wheel/casino/torch/mecca/100/wherever) NEED to pass on your knowledge to the next generation of what packed the floors out at the places you escaped to every weekend!

ive found all the original casino tapes on the refosoul thing, and listening to Gary Rushbrooke (1980) ive realised that I really dont know ANY of the songs on it apart from one (gary sole - holdin on - although he says its by someone else so i dont even know which was the c/u name now!)

i love the uptempo yet soulful tunes on it though, ive got a lot of goldmine cds and im sure i havent ever heard any of these on them (maybe one or two that ive missed... i dont know maybe i just didnt hear them right on compilations...?)

i was listening to a searling one before that had salsoul tunes on it as well, i had NO IDEA them kind of tunes were ever spun at the casino, and im even more fascinated now to get tunes that people already love and dont remember rather than discover the next amazing slow dancer that sounds like the last slow dancer etc etc....

it must be really amazing to be your generation.. can you see anyone in their 20s looking back at their memories when they get to your age with the fondness you all do? i cant see it meself...

as i said in 1st post... really dont wanna offend anyone, to you the tunes from 1973-1980 are old and maybe dead, but how many plays did it take before you got there? i just wanna get in on that original vibe, its obviously kept you all hooked this long, and i refuse to believe that dobie gray and tony clarke and al wilson etc were spun all night... there HAS to be more ive never heard!

also id love to know WHEN tunes were discovered, i dont have any knowledge of when copies of things actually turned up, only when they were made what label they were on (and i try my best to remember cat no's without much success lol)

rambling now... original point was yeah im too young to remember so im desperate for an experience of the real casino / the real wheel etc at some point in my life! im addicted to these casino tapes!

if you dont fancy the stompers anymore, sell them all to me for £1 each... come on... theyre played out anyway...

kb

ps to go back to your original post - if there was a massive nighter in the north with a massive crowd and loads of different rooms id be there! but the main room would have to play lou pride for me lol

Excellent and thought provoking post Krissi. I admire your 'thirst' for the vibe. My son in law is 'new' to the scene and is experiencing that 'thirst' at the moment.

As a few of the others have said you cant recreate what is was like back in the late 60's and 70's. What you are seeng/experiencing now is a completely different animal.

Back in those days the atmosphere was key to it all--made by the music, the people(majority were in the early 20's and younger)and..probably the era we lived in.

Now to the music--yes you're right it wasn't all Al Wilson, Dobie Gray etc--there were loads that are for want of a better phrase forgotten oldies. A lot of venues up and down profess to play these at their nights and some still sound as fresh as when they had 'their 15 mins of fame' in 197whatever.

Now the trick is--and this is the 'Lost Ark'--to play the sounds AND have the atmosphere.

Of course there will be loads of opinions on this --and this is mine--but not every 'do' at the mo can claim to have it.

Possibly you ought to try the Kings Hall--I notice in your post you'd stopped going. I went on saturday gone and it was rammed--hot and sweaty. Yes they play some classics but also mixed in with a few forgotten oldies and also current biggies that have the 100mph vibe--and importantly are dancers. Me son in law was fcukin gobsmacked

Also possibly try Blackpool Tower Weekender--probably not for the purists--but a pretty good atmosphere can be generated in there to similar type of music to Kings Hall.

One of the problems you'll have(its probably a good un) is taking it all in. Backe then we didn't have that many records to learn and take on board in comparison to now. Theres another 35+ years of tunes to wade through ---but dont forget the acid test---proper northern soul kicks you in the proverbials

2 final points.

Yes we were lucky and priviliged to have been a part of that era--and can look back with fond memories and yes thats a crackin idea am with you on that--------lets buy everyones stompers up for a quid each

[Guest Krissii]

i love the replies! thank you for letting me provoke you...

im still seeing the answer in what you're replying with though...

"but that should hopefully be down to how long they've been on the scene, where they're from and subsequently what were popular/overplayed sounds in their area."

yeah definitely, im GLAD thats why, all im saying is there will be tunes that im going to absolutely love which i'll never hear at a soul night now because dj's will fear YOUR reactions to it instead of seeing its reason for overplaying....

yesterday as an example, i was reading a thread on "how shocking it was that these tunes were played at wigan... oh my god Tavares !!!" etc but you need to take credit for them tunes even being still popular now... how shit would life be for us if RS had never played some of them tunes... anyway i got to someones post that said about a song id never heard of, so i went looking, and found a clip, and love it (have ordered the LP and everything...) and yeah its a weird album, its not what id ever call a casino style album, but still i discovered 2 tunes i love yesterday just because of a post on this site...

are there seriously any djs here whod play Idris Muhammad - Could Heaven Ever Be Like This at their night? i can hear the people getting down to it on the tape, and i was feeling it 'extra' because of that, even through a tape>mp3>website....HAD to order the LP (TURN THIS MUTHA OUT (KUDU))

and do you think RS even knows that probably because he "broke" that tune at wigan, it ended up being sampled on a tune called "Rise" by the Soul Providers? things dont get sampled unless theyre worth sampling.... don thomas as another example.... NS needs its place and recognition in musical history!

and as for the comment on the rush about mrs woods, all i can do is watch the ITV vids i have, and imagine! to have been there is phenomenal, the moon landing is a perfect way to describe it!

although if you play me seven day fool loud enough i get the same feelings as described on said itv docs, and im northern, so i feel like i qualify lol

it would be totally unfair to say that the KH is shit, it isnt, all im saying is when it started it seemed to be all about things like Moses Smith Girl Across The Street / Ronnie McNeir Sitting In My Class / Lou Johnson Unsatisfied / Marvin Gaye This Old Heart (Its Killing Me) etc etc and then it seemed to shift and everyone was playing Doug Banks I Kept On Dancing / Kurt Harris Emperor Of My Babys Heart etc which I agree are amazing tunes, but if im at a nighter, (especially if i chose to enhance my night the way some of you used to) it doesnt give me the thrills im looking for....

Ill definitely go again though to see how its changed.... im wondering where I'm at now though in NS, i think i belong in the wheel/casino early days, though some mecca tunes are amazing (carstairs/montclairs/nolan) but im more about the RAW snare on every beat, mental tambourines, fast horns, screamy vocal stuff, and the CDs ive bought from Discount Disc n everywhere else over the years just isnt cutting it anymore..... time for some stuff I dont know again!

thank you all for replies though, its great to read your experiences

KTF

ps - "there are folk like Bearsy who have entered the scene later on in life who have that experience I am envious of, of not knowing whether something is an oldie/newie/reactivated sound just by listening to it." - is that an advantage you think? because if anything im trying to order my brain the other way! i want to know when and how things were discovered as opposed to what year they were originally sessioned in...i only found out this wk that frank wilson lay undiscovered until about 15 20 years ago... its that kind of shit that makes me tick!

Edited June 6, 2009 by Krissii

[Guest Scarborosoul]

it would be totally unfair to say that the KH is shit, it isnt, all im saying is when it started it seemed to be all about things like Moses Smith Girl Across The Street / Ronnie McNeir Sitting In My Class / Lou Johnson Unsatisfied / Marvin Gaye This Old Heart (Its Killing Me) etc etc and then it seemed to shift and everyone was playing Doug Banks I Kept On Dancing / Kurt Harris Emperor Of My Babys Heart etc which I agree are amazing tunes, but if im at a nighter, (especially if i chose to enhance my night the way some of you used to) it doesnt give me the thrills im looking for....

Hahahahahahah that tickled me ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Again sorry to say KB, the "enhancements" we used in those days were far far supirior to what is available today. It was 90% pharmasutical and mostly robbed from chemist shops on the way! I remember going to a Fri Oldies, Sat normal onto a dayer on the sunday and then hitching home from Peterlee still off my head from Friday and being back at work on Mon morning. Nothing available today could do that!

Rick

[Guest]

i love the replies! thank you for letting me provoke you...

im still seeing the answer in what you're replying with though...

"but that should hopefully be down to how long they've been on the scene, where they're from and subsequently what were popular/overplayed sounds in their area."

yeah definitely, im GLAD thats why, all im saying is there will be tunes that im going to absolutely love which i'll never hear at a soul night now because dj's will fear YOUR reactions to it instead of seeing its reason for overplaying....

yesterday as an example, i was reading a thread on "how shocking it was that these tunes were played at wigan... oh my god Tavares !!!" etc but you need to take credit for them tunes even being still popular now... how shit would life be for us if RS had never played some of them tunes... anyway i got to someones post that said about a song id never heard of, so i went looking, and found a clip, and love it (have ordered the LP and everything...) and yeah its a weird album, its not what id ever call a casino style album, but still i discovered 2 tunes i love yesterday just because of a post on this site...

are there seriously any djs here whod play Idris Muhammad - Could Heaven Ever Be Like This at their night? i can hear the people getting down to it on the tape, and i was feeling it 'extra' because of that, even through a tape>mp3>website....HAD to order the LP (TURN THIS MUTHA OUT (KUDU))

and do you think RS even knows that probably because he "broke" that tune at wigan, it ended up being sampled on a tune called "Rise" by the Soul Providers? things dont get sampled unless theyre worth sampling.... don thomas as another example.... NS needs its place and recognition in musical history!

and as for the comment on the rush about mrs woods, all i can do is watch the ITV vids i have, and imagine! to have been there is phenomenal, the moon landing is a perfect way to describe it!

although if you play me seven day fool loud enough i get the same feelings as described on said itv docs, and im northern, so i feel like i qualify lol

it would be totally unfair to say that the KH is shit, it isnt, all im saying is when it started it seemed to be all about things like Moses Smith Girl Across The Street / Ronnie McNeir Sitting In My Class / Lou Johnson Unsatisfied / Marvin Gaye This Old Heart (Its Killing Me) etc etc and then it seemed to shift and everyone was playing Doug Banks I Kept On Dancing / Kurt Harris Emperor Of My Babys Heart etc which I agree are amazing tunes, but if im at a nighter, (especially if i chose to enhance my night the way some of you used to) it doesnt give me the thrills im looking for....

Ill definitely go again though to see how its changed.... im wondering where I'm at now though in NS, i think i belong in the wheel/casino early days, though some mecca tunes are amazing (carstairs/montclairs/nolan) but im more about the RAW snare on every beat, mental tambourines, fast horns, screamy vocal stuff, and the CDs ive bought from Discount Disc n everywhere else over the years just isnt cutting it anymore..... time for some stuff I dont know again!

thank you all for replies though, its great to read your experiences

KTF

ps - "there are folk like Bearsy who have entered the scene later on in life who have that experience I am envious of, of not knowing whether something is an oldie/newie/reactivated sound just by listening to it." - is that an advantage you think? because if anything im trying to order my brain the other way! i want to know when and how things were discovered as opposed to what year they were originally sessioned in...i only found out this wk that frank wilson lay undiscovered until about 15 20 years ago... its that kind of shit that makes me tick!

Hi KB,

I love your posts here and your writing style. I really hope you do go back to KH. Don't know which DJ's you heard last time but I certainly recommend having a listen to the stuff DJ's like Neil Jones, Nige Brown and Sean Chapman are playing. Neil's usually on at the end of the night but I would recommend you hang around and give his spot a listen. For instance, a Neil Jones spot and a Ginger Taylor spot are coming from completely different angles (IMO) which gives the stoke alniter the variety I think it has.

Hope that made sense.

Jayne.x

Edited June 6, 2009 by Miss BurySoul

[Guest]

it must be really amazing to be your generation.. can you see anyone in their 20s looking back at their memories when they get to your age with the fondness you all do? i cant see it meself...

kb

ps to go back to your original post - if there was a massive nighter in the north with a massive crowd and loads of different rooms id be there! but the main room would have to play lou pride for me lol

Hi KB,

Not sure I agree with this one. I don't see any reason why I won't look back at my 20's with the same fondness the older generations do.

I've been lucky enough to be out at venue's 99% of weekends since I was just 22. Same music (& often same clubs) as those who grew up in the 60's & 70's, only difference being that my best mates on the scene are a bit older than me and those guys wouldn't have experienced the scene with mates 20/30 years older than them but I don't see that as anything but a great thing as I've met some amazing people and I'm having great fun.

Best wishes, hope to see you out and about somewhere soon!

Jayne.x

[Dysonsoul]

The room is small. 150 max

Yep. Butch and Sam are the guvnors regarding that room.

Best of luck with your job application!

HI kev,just a quick mail of thanks for changing the february date at kings hall ,this certainly proves that sitting down for 10 minutes talking through and planning dates - ie working together can eradicate the negativity of clashing !

We certainly had a great nite at stoke - no doubt this niter takes some beating in it's field...

[Guest]

Ah that cracked me up....

I wasn't being Rude ..... I have known him for years so I am allowed to take the piss.

But his sales box was always crap !

As far as the Topic is concerned.

I cant wait for the Soul scene to shrink back to what it was like in the 80s.

Oldies were played with new discovery's and without politics, We all collected 45s, got tips for future big tunes off mates and dealers whilst dreaming and saving up to own great

tunes that were already established plays - Oldies or Newies! And I could dance for hours!

We were happy buying records just to collect for ourselves, And driving 100s of miles in a car to hear Gary Spencer, Mick Smith, or Pat Brady or whoever play tunes you knew or

didn't - That was the point? Soul Tunes you knew - and then dancing and getting to know the tunes that you did not know.

And it was all about great fun and misbehaving !

I felt there was a genuine respect for each other then, Just because we were all Soul fans.

It was just a little pot full of everything that was good about all the aspects of 60s and 70s Soul music.

I feel that the bad Politics and older age of todays scene will inevitably lead to the scenes demise in the coming years.

The scene seems to be split in all sorts of ways these days.

I still collect 60s Soul 45s all the time - every week , but I have no desire to go out anywhere any more.

It is just a personal love for my music and my collecting now.

I am still only in my 30s BTW

Mossy

Edited June 10, 2009 by mossy

[spirit]

There really is nowhere now with the kind of vibe the Casino had many have tried all failed ... 

Compare it to the first moon landing, only those guys who were on the moon will ever really know that experience. This is the same.

... the "enhancements" we used in those days were far far supirior to what is available today.... 

 

And lest anyone who wasn't there (you poor, sad wretches) suspect that Scarborosoul is prone to nostalgic wallowing and ludicrous exaggeration, I can assure you - as a dancefloor-scarred Wigan vet - that if anything he is understating what it was like.

I would say it was like being Jesus Christ and Elvis Presley (when he was the Hillbilly Cat, not Cheeseburger Elvis) rolled into one, in The Beatles while riding Red Rum to victory on the first moon landing (but with more atmosphere).

All young people, top yourself now. Mind you, suicide isn't anywhere near as good as it was in my day, so I wouldn't bother.

[Little-stevie]

I wasn't being Rude ..... I have known him for years so I am allowed to take the piss.

But his sales box was always crap !

As far as the Topic is concerned.

I cant wait for the Soul scene to shrink back to what it was like in the 80s.

Oldies were played with new discovery's and without politics, We all collected 45s, got tips for future big tunes off mates and dealers whilst dreaming and saving up to own great

tunes that were already established plays - Oldies or Newies! And I could dance for hours!

We were happy buying records just to collect for ourselves, And driving 100s of miles in a car to hear Gary Spencer, Mick Smith, or Pat Brady or whoever play tunes you knew or

didn't - That was the point? Soul Tunes you knew - and then dancing and getting to know the tunes that you did not know.

And it was all about great fun and misbehaving !

I felt there was a genuine respect for each other then, Just because we were all Soul fans.

It was just a little pot full of everything that was good about all the aspects of 60s and 70s Soul music.

I feel that the bad Politics and older age of todays scene will inevitably lead to the scenes demise in the coming years.

The scene seems to be split in all sorts of ways these days.

I still collect 60s Soul 45s all the time - every week , but I have no desire to go out anywhere any more.

It is just a personal love for my music and my collecting now.

I am still only in my 30s BTW

Mossy

Quality post Mossy...

Yes its a poor state of affairs when all the bullshit gets in the way of something we love.. Still plenty good folk out there though, just need to keep away from certain people and most know who they are....

[Guest]

All young people, top yourself now. Mind you, suicide isn't anywhere near as good as it was in my day, so I wouldn't bother.

... brilliant!

Jayne.x

[jocko]

Phil start with some easier problems like eradicating Thirld World poverty, creating peace in the Middle East, understanding a drunk Mickey Cruise, it may save any hair you have left.