Luther Ingram Hib - Unknown Label Variant?

[Soulfulsolutions]

I am looking for some advice concerning a copy of Luther Ingram on HIB that I have to clarify if it is an original or other!

As you'll all appreciate it's titled "If its all the same / Exus trek".

Before we run down a rabbit hole I would make it clear that I have studied John Manships latest price guide, which does a good job of covering all the "known" variants of this label. I have also visited the popsike site to cross check the label against all the scans available and there are about 40-50, both John and Popsike show boot, repro, 2nd issue variants. Neither Johns guide or Popsike has any label scan that matches what I have. I've had a previous copy but can't locate my scan.

I will upload a scan of it later today, but for now the details are:

Green label, styrene, title at the top with (Wylie) under, HIB Records running vertical on left side with Detroit address under, artist name at the bottom with distribution by Atco plus address under on 2 lines,

The right side is where it all gets confusing, record number 698 with publishing, track time and record serial number under. Above that block it says PLUG SIDE, beneath it says PROMOTIONAL NOT FOR SALE on 2 lines. Remember its a Green label that does not correspond to any label I have seen. I appreciate there is a raised X on green copies (can't remember if vinyl or styrene), although there is no mention of a raised X on white demos, is there an MR stamp on these? This copy has a etched delta number. In lieu of an X it has MR machine stamped in, presumably Monarch, who I believe were West Coast.

Whats bizzare is it has everything that every other label design has on one label, but its a green, stamped PROMO Copy.

Any help? Lee

Edited April 30, 2009 by SoulfulSolutions

[Guest]

I am looking for some advice concerning a copy of Luther Ingram on HIB that I have to clarify if it is an original or other!

As you'll all appreciate it's titled "If its all the same / Exus trek".

Before we run down a rabbit hole I would make it clear that I have studied John Manships latest price guide, which does a good job of covering all the "known" variants of this label. I have also visited the popsike site to cross check the label against all the scans available and there are about 40-50, both John and Popsike show boot, repro, 2nd issue variants. Neither Johns guide or Popsike has any label scan that matches what I have. I've had a previous copy but can't locate my scan.

I will upload a scan of it later today, but for now the details are:

Green label, styrene, title at the top with (Wylie) under, HIB Records running vertical on left side with Detroit address under, artist name at the bottom with distribution by Atco plus address under on 2 lines,

The right side is where it all gets confusing, record number 698 with publishing, track time and record serial number under. Above that block it says PLUG SIDE, beneath it says PROMOTIONAL NOT FOR SALE on 2 lines. Remember its a Green label that does not correspond to any label I have seen. I appreciate there is a raised X on green copies (can't remember if vinyl or styrene), although there is no mention of a raised X on white demos, is there an MR stamp on these? This copy has a etched delta number. In lieu of an X it has MR machine stamped in, presumably Monarch, who I believe were West Coast.

Whats bizzare is it has everything that every other label design has on one label, but its a green, stamped PROMO Copy.

Any help? Lee

No its a boot.

[Soulfulsolutions]

No its a boot.

Ken, many thanks, Lee

[Premium Stuff]

Ken, many thanks, Lee

Hi Lee

Check for previous threads on here as I reckon this variant is covered.

I think you are referring to the copy in the attached scan which I had on my laptop.

I saw this on eBay a couple of years back. It went for a fairly tidy sum (over £100 if I remember correctly).

I think the delta number is an early one which suggests possibly not a boot.

If I recall from a previous thread on here, someone else had this copy and had asked John Manship about it. Based on the early delta number etc. I think it was considered likely to be an original.

From the scan it has the look of a boot.

Apologies if I have any of the above wrong, and to open up this can of worms again.

Get a white one

Check the archives

Cheers

Richard

Edited April 30, 2009 by Premium Stuff

[Guest]

Hi Lee

Check for previous threads on here as I reckon this variant is covered.

I think you are referring to the copy in the attached scan which I had on my laptop.

I saw this on eBay a couple of years back. It went for a fairly tidy sum (over £100 if I remember correctly).

I think the delta number is an early one which suggests possibly not a boot.

If I recall from a previous thread on here, someone else had this copy and had asked John Manship about it. Based on the early delta number etc. I think it was considered likely to be an original.

From the scan it has the look of a boot.

Apologies if I have any of the above wrong, and to open up this can of worms again.

Get a white one

Check the archives

Cheers

Richard

If its like the above,its real

[Julianb]

Hi Lee

Check for previous threads on here as I reckon this variant is covered.

I think you are referring to the copy in the attached scan which I had on my laptop.

I saw this on eBay a couple of years back. It went for a fairly tidy sum (over £100 if I remember correctly).

I think the delta number is an early one which suggests possibly not a boot.

If I recall from a previous thread on here, someone else had this copy and had asked John Manship about it. Based on the early delta number etc. I think it was considered likely to be an original.

From the scan it has the look of a boot.

Apologies if I have any of the above wrong, and to open up this can of worms again.

Get a white one

Check the archives

Cheers

Richard

Hi,that delta number on your attachment was allocated in Jan 1967 - too early for a boot surely?

Don't remember this being played before 1971/2 ?? so wy boot it before it got popular over here ( or was it a massive hit in the States?)

Julian

[Soulfulsolutions]

Richard, Ken, Julian, thanks for takin' the time to reply.

I have attached the scan of the topside (vocal), the flip is exactly the same as Richard's offering. In the close up I can see the delta number 64973 is exactly the same. Finally, at least I can compare something to mine. I don't have the reference to deltas numbers, my old fanzines that contain them are in the loft so I'll assume the delta number holds the key.

Richard, I get your point a white one would have saved me some concern!

Thank you again and regards, Lee

[Soulfulsolutions]

Richard, took your advice to go through the archives (tried before but perhaps didn't scroll down enough). Me and my missus (who detests my love for this stuff) fell off our chairs with laughter. Simple question turns into world war 3, unless of course all the main players to the string really, you know, REALLY like each other but don't want to let on? Must admit, it puts me off wanting to engage in any forum. The only shred of comfort I got from it was the orange label Alan Pollard had, it's about the only decent Detroit 45 I didn't sell him!!! If I knew then what I know now!

Of course, not knowing the answer to my own question puts that statement into contrasting perspective. Regards, Lee

[kevinsoulman]

Richard, Ken, Julian, thanks for takin' the time to reply.

I have attached the scan of the topside (vocal), the flip is exactly the same as Richard's offering. In the close up I can see the delta number 64973 is exactly the same. Finally, at least I can compare something to mine. I don't have the reference to deltas numbers, my old fanzines that contain them are in the loft so I'll assume the delta number holds the key.

Richard, I get your point a white one would have saved me some concern!

Thank you again and regards, Lee

delta no 64616 starts off jan 67, feb 67 starts 65249 so its jan 67

kev

[45cellar]

delta no 64616 starts off jan 67, feb 67 starts 65249 so its jan 67

kev

The comparison that I am drawn to is the Art Freeman RED Label Promotion Copy.

West Coast >>> LINK 2007 <<< West Coast DEMO's Quite Often Coloured as opposed to White.

Difficult to tell from a scan, however;

This Could be a West Coast Promotion Copy, Hence its Rarity.

(Those Monarch Stamps and Matrix are Intriguing & Normally a 100% Indication date wise)

The X on a Monarch in this Instance denotes the B Side not to be confused with the other descriptions "Raised X" for this record.

If It Is A Known BOOT or Counterfeit then it's definitely one that I haven't seen before.

Edited May 1, 2009 by 45cellar

[Gene-r]

Looks pretty kosher to me - especailly when you look at the sharpness of the label and that you can tell it's a styrene press. Of course, not to mention the Jan '67 Delta matrix.

My guess is that it's a bloody rare variant - even the typeface is unique. A typical Atco styrene press of its time, so there should be no questioning its authenticity.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Gene-R

[Soulfulsolutions]

Kev, many thanks for confirming the Delta dating, ties in with earlier suggestions.

Roger, I tend to side with your west coast theory, it's the likeliest explanation as to why all those copies I have seen in scans have not matched this one, only when Richard posted his scan earlier was there a match. As a Detroit 45 is there some sense in there not being much demand for this style of soul on the west coast, its not typical, perhaps it went west some time after its earlier successful issue, no need for a white demo, but a need to get Dj's to plug it hence the addition of details to the label and as such a much smaller run than you see in the other label designs. Pure speculation of course! Just glad the x appears on the instr side, couldn't stomach the idea of the vocal being 2nd best...

Gene, appreciate your comments as well, all of this is helpful.

Regards to all, Lee

[Julianb]

Looks pretty kosher to me - especailly when you look at the sharpness of the label and that you can tell it's a styrene press. Of course, not to mention the Jan '67 Delta matrix.

My guess is that it's a bloody rare variant - even the typeface is unique. A typical Atco styrene press of its time, so there should be no questioning its authenticity.

Excellent, 'cause it's exactly like my copy!!

Julian

[Soulfulsolutions]

Another satisfied customer!!!