Frank Wilson Finish

[Guest welshruss]

pwy ydi ffyliad yma?????

[Guest soulmaguk]

Care to name the source of your information?

Any recognised record dealer will tell you there are fare rarer and more desirable 45s to be sought, not just soul, that's what i meant. as for there being 4 copies, thats what picking up rumours over the years does for you. Friend of mine was offered the said record for £600 back in the eighties. That was considered too much really without actually knowing how many copies there were, hey, but thats the hype. All i can say is the record must of had high expectations as a dance tune and not a collectors item.

[Guest Dante]

Any recognised record dealer will tell you there are fare rarer and more desirable 45s to be sought, not just soul, that's what i meant. as for there being 4 copies, thats what picking up rumours over the years does for you. Friend of mine was offered the said record for £600 back in the eighties. That was considered too much really without actually knowing how many copies there were, hey, but thats the hype. All i can say is the record must of had high expectations as a dance tune and not a collectors item.

That's what I thought

by the way, from JM's site:

frank wilson has been WON for 25,742.00 uk pounds 38,079.08 USA dollars 28,562.47 euros 52,285.85 Australian dollars or 3,694,524.21 yen

I think it's pretty clear the auction has already finished. The private stage started days ago...

[Dean]

Will there be an email that reads:

I see you were the second highest bidder, I've just found another one in the box in the same if not better condition, you have a second chance offer

[Godzilla]

Care to name the source of your information?

Secret intelligence source

[MikeHinNewJersey]

Copied off the Home Page on Manship's site

WILSON, FRANK

frank wilson has been WON for 25,742.00 uk pounds 38,079.08 USA dollars 28,562.47 euros 52,285.85 Australian dollars or 3,694,524.21 yen

[Russ Vickers]

Any recognised record dealer will tell you there are fare rarer and more desirable 45s to be sought, not just soul, that's what i meant. as for there being 4 copies, thats what picking up rumours over the years does for you. Friend of mine was offered the said record for £600 back in the eighties. That was considered too much really without actually knowing how many copies there were, hey, but thats the hype. All i can say is the record must of had high expectations as a dance tune and not a collectors item.

I dont care that much, but surely until the 'other' copies are verified its just speculation.

Russ

[Cheltsoulnights]

hans up everyone on this site that speak German??

The only German i know is

5 - 1

[Cheltsoulnights]

Cracking investment by Kenny obviously but after all the hype and speculation I suspect there could even be a bit of disappointment that it didn't go mental .

Any idea where its gone?

Cheers..........Pete

[Guest brianhorton]

By the time J.M has had his commission @20 percent, poor old Kenny's looking at clearing only around 5K

[Godzilla]

By the time J.M has had his commission @20 percent, poor old Kenny's looking at clearing only around 5K

What kind of maths are using?

[Godzilla]

What kind of maths are using?

Sorry - trigger finger. Missed the word 'you'. As in:

What kind of maths are you using. Not so clever now am I?

[Ian Dewhirst]

There are supposedly 4 original copies. The auction of this record is pure hype, and the winner of the said 45 will be purchasing a VG+ copy with lots of scribbling on the label. Not my point of view, but from a serious record collectors point of view as a rare soul record...its bollox. Wonder if bidding did end early because of these views or have they found some more!

Mmm. Two more than the rest of us know about. What do you know that every other collector in the world doesn't I wonder?

Ian D

[Modernsoulsucks]

What kind of maths are using?

I think extremely roughly. Sold at 25k less 20% is 20K making 5K above original price of 15K

ROD

[Godzilla]

I think extremely roughly. Sold at 25k less 20% is 20K making 5K above original price of 15K

ROD

Ahh.

I thought when people say it 'cleared' for 'x' they mean what it sold for. Not what profit they made after buying it 20 years ago or whatever and disregarding inflation and so on.

My mistake obviously. Mind you, when people talk about their salary and say I clear so and so, are they deducting wear and tear on their bodies, mental strain, inconvenience of having to go to work etc.

I'll shut up eh? I clearly don't get it. Final question though. How much did John Manship clear? ...

Edited May 1, 2009 by Godzilla

[solidhit]

I think extremely roughly. Sold at 25k less 20% is 20K making 5K above original price of 15K

ROD

Doesn't seem a very good deal for the seller, does it? He shells out 15K and has to wait 10 years to make 5K on that investment. The auctioneer shells out some tiny fraction of that amount (if anything) to promote the auction and waits a couple of 60 days (or less) to make 5K for himself. Seller could have put that 15K into a savings account and made more money on his investment. I wonder if there was some sort of minimum price guarantee on the auction in excess of the final amount.

[Godzilla]

Doesn't seem a very good deal for the seller, does it? He shells out 15K and has to wait 10 years to make 5K on that investment. The auctioneer shells out some tiny fraction of that amount (if anything) to promote the auction and waits a couple of 60 days (or less) to make 5K for himself. Seller could have put that 15K into a savings account and made more money on his investment.

Yeah, but records are a crap investment aren't they.

I think that's the argument I was trying to make when people were comparing buying FW to buying collectible art and suggesting top end investors would be interested. As if.

In fact it's a doubly crap investment if you intend to buy a rare record and play it. Sure there's some money to be made in record collecting but there are far safer and more efficient ways of making a profit. Can't think that was Kenny's original intention anyway.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Doesn't seem a very good deal for the seller, does it? He shells out 15K and has to wait 10 years to make 5K on that investment. The auctioneer shells out some tiny fraction of that amount (if anything) to promote the auction and waits a couple of 60 days (or less) to make 5K for himself. Seller could have put that 15K into a savings account and made more money on his investment. I wonder if there was some sort of minimum price guarantee on the auction in excess of the final amount.

I kinda agree with that with one or two provisos.

The figures bandied about before end of the auction were getting ridiculous as Godz pointed out elsewhere. I doubt there's that many buyers who can afford to shell out the 15K originally paid never mind 25K. I've no idea who bid on this site but you only have to look at the sales threads on here to see that a lot are selling 45s outta "collections" just to finance next purchase. Im talking a couple of hundred quids worth in some cases. No way many could raise 25K doing that.

John's site is the foremost auction outlet for soul 45s. I wonder if Kenny coulda reached that sum without John's name and customer base. There's a hell of a lot of work gone into Manny's site and even though I consider him the spawn of Satan for the guide books and view his prices as somewhat ambitious I still take my hat off to him for what he has accomplished because any of us coulda done the same if we'd had his vision,drive and determination.

ROD

Edited May 1, 2009 by modernsoulsucks

[Pete Eccles]

Well I reckon buying a 45 for 15K, playing it out for 15 years then offloading it and making a profit is about as good as you can expect, regardless of the profit made,

Kenny is a great DJ, with a great collection, and I'm sure even he will admit owning 'that' 45 didn't do him any harm, so to get his investment back plus a bit then alls good,

Pete E

[Godzilla]

Well I reckon buying a 45 for 15K, playing it out for 15 years then offloading it and making a profit is about as good as you can expect, regardless of the profit made,

Kenny is a great DJ, with a great collection, and I'm sure even he will admit owning 'that' 45 didn't do him any harm, so to get his investment back plus a bit then alls good,

Pete E

Good post Pete.

I think amongst all the talk about the amount that he paid for it and the subsequent gossip, people have maybe lost site of why he was mad enough to pay that much in the first place. Don't think making a massive profit somewhere along the line was part of his game plan. Surely he was just driven to own an original of a rare record he wanted.

[Pete Eccles]

Good post Pete.

I think amongst all the talk about the amount that he paid for it and the subsequent gossip, people have maybe lost site of why he was mad enough to pay that much in the first place. Don't think making a massive profit somewhere along the line was part of his game plan. Surely he was just driven to own an original of a rare record he wanted.

Agree Godz, if he had bought it to profit from it then he wouldn't have played it anywhere and everywhere on some very dodgy rigs, he fulfilled an ambition, had lots of fun with it, got his money back, well done Ken,

Pete E

[bri pinch]

MUST ADMIT I'D NEVER HEARD OF KEN BURRELL BEFORE HE BORT F/W, BUT WHEN HE CAME TO OUR NECK OF THE WOODS, BOUT TEN YEARS AGO, THORT I'D CHECK HIM OUT. EVEN THO HE DANCED BEHIND THE DECKS LIKE ME GRANDAD, HE DID ONE OF THE BEST SPOTS I'D EVER HEARD UP TO THAT POINT DESPITE PLAYING F/W.

BRI PINCH.

SUNDAY CHILLOUT, 7TH JUNE, HORSE AND GROOM PUB, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER.

[Guest Dante]

Doesn't seem a very good deal for the seller, does it? He shells out 15K and has to wait 10 years to make 5K on that investment. The auctioneer shells out some tiny fraction of that amount (if anything) to promote the auction and waits a couple of 60 days (or less) to make 5K for himself. Seller could have put that 15K into a savings account and made more money on his investment. I wonder if there was some sort of minimum price guarantee on the auction in excess of the final amount.

As Godzilla says, records aren't an investment. Of course the Kenny Burrell could have made lots more investing in real state, for example. But then again, he would be investor Kenny Burrell and not Northern Soul DJ Kenny Burrel wouldn't he? I'm sure he didn't bought that piece of vinyl thinking of how much profit he could take off it, if he did, he wouldn't have played it out at nighter or have FW to sign on it...

And no, there was no reserve. Don't take it personally, mate, but there are far too many questions about the auction that could have been answered easily if you guys had only read the terms and conditions. It was just three or four paragraphs long, english is not even my mother tongue and I didn't find it difficult at all...

Cheers,

D

[Mark Bicknell]

The trouble is now this is gonna run and run even after the auction, now there will be an inquest on here as some people will want to know who actually won the record and won't rest until they know, makes no difference to me who bought it, that should be private between JM and the buyer and should remain so, time to perhaps let this one pass now, move on instead of the third degree all the time, good luck to Kenny, good luck to JM and good luck to the buyer who have all basically been involved in an iconic transaction that will never be passed on the soul scene.

Records - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Dante]

The trouble is now this is gonna run and run even after the auction, now there will be an inquest on here as some people will want to know who actually won the record and won't rest until they know, makes no difference to me who bought it, that should be private between JM and the buyer and should remain so, time to perhaps let this one pass now, move on instead of the third degree all the time, good luck to Kenny, good luck to JM and good luck to the buyer who have all basically been involved in an iconic transaction that will never be passed on the soul scene.

Records - Mark Bicknell.

It will be known, eventually, wouldn't it?

I'm not dying to know, either. Just wondering if it's still within the Northern scene...

[Hermanthegerman]

Don´t think the buyers identity will stay secret anyway, we all tend to do d.ck - waving, don´t we.... :lol:

[Andreas]

Doesn't seem a very good deal for the seller, does it? He shells out 15K and has to wait 10 years to make 5K on that investment. The auctioneer shells out some tiny fraction of that amount (if anything) to promote the auction and waits a couple of 60 days (or less) to make 5K for himself. Seller could have put that 15K into a savings account and made more money on his investment. I wonder if there was some sort of minimum price guarantee on the auction in excess of the final amount.

well, so maybe kenny keept it?

[Guest wigantojapan]

. EVEN THO HE DANCED BEHIND THE DECKS LIKE ME GRANDAD,

[Guest franky m]

There are supposedly 4 original copies. The auction of this record is pure hype, and the winner of the said 45 will be purchasing a VG+ copy with lots of scribbling on the label. Not my point of view, but from a serious record collectors point of view as a rare soul record...its bollox. Wonder if bidding did end early because of these views or have they found some more!

sour grapes ?

[viphitman]

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[Cheltsoulnights]

I kinda agree with that with one or two provisos.

The figures bandied about before end of the auction were getting ridiculous as Godz pointed out elsewhere. I doubt there's that many buyers who can afford to shell out the 15K originally paid never mind 25K. I've no idea who bid on this site but you only have to look at the sales threads on here to see that a lot are selling 45s outta "collections" just to finance next purchase. Im talking a couple of hundred quids worth in some cases. No way many could raise 25K doing that.

John's site is the foremost auction outlet for soul 45s. I wonder if Kenny coulda reached that sum without John's name and customer base. There's a hell of a lot of work gone into Manny's site and even though I consider him the spawn of Satan for the guide books and view his prices as somewhat ambitious I still take my hat off to him for what he has accomplished because any of us coulda done the same if we'd had his vision,drive and determination.

ROD

Wonderful

Did not John himself state clearly that the scan used was by kind permission of Kenny and not his copy as scan of sale item was not available?

So it doesnt take a brain surgeon to work out whose copy it was?

[Modernsoulsucks]

Wonderful

Did not John himself state clearly that the scan used was by kind permission of Kenny and not his copy as scan of sale item was not available?

So it doesnt take a brain surgeon to work out whose copy it was?

I didn't pay any attention to Manny's blurb, other than following thread on here, as I wasn't bidding.

Im confused now. It's not Kenny's? It was Tim's?

ROD

[Guest James Trouble]

Without rich eccentrics the soul scene would be a duller place, really it would.

Any debate about the price of a record like FW is a bit silly, it's like a discussion about someone spending half a million quid on some crazy pimped out Ferrari and how you would spend it on 5 different cars instead, the price is almost irrelevant once it's into these sort of figures.

I think the reality is that it is a privilege to be around these sort of things, what they represent, the unbridled passion, and having someone around DJing who plays crazy records like FW is like being able to sit as a passenger in a half a million quid pimped out Ferrari while it's driven around a race track. You don't have to like it, you could even hate it, you might even be sick as a result of it, but it's better than going to work on the London Underground.

We're lucky to have crazy rich nutters who hold these records for the scene to dance to.

I hope it's stayed in the UK.

Edited May 5, 2009 by James Trouble

[Tony Smith]

Wonderful

Did not John himself state clearly that the scan used was by kind permission of Kenny and not his copy as scan of sale item was not available?

So it doesnt take a brain surgeon to work out whose copy it was?

If it was Tims copy, it didn't mention the warp, coffee stains etc., It graded at ex, which Tims copy isn't. if it was a third copy there was no mention of anywhere in the FW story on John's site, as for a box or more copies being found, these stories have perpetuated for the last 25+ years with no substance.

[Ritchieandrew]

Without rich eccentrics the soul scene would be a duller place, really it would.

Any debate about the price of a record like FW is a bit silly, it's like a discussion about someone spending half a million quid on some crazy pimped out Ferrari and how you would spend it on 5 different cars instead, the price is almost irrelevant once it's into these sort of figures.

I think the reality is that it is a privilege to be around these sort of things, what they represent, the unbridled passion, and having someone around DJing who plays crazy records like FW is like being able to sit as a passenger in a half a million quid pimped out Ferrari while it's driven around a race track. You don't have to like it, you could even hate it, you might even be sick as a result of it, but it's better than going to work on the London Underground.

We're lucky to have crazy rich nutters who hold these records for the scene to dance to.

I hope it's stayed in the UK.

I hope your sentiments will remain the same, if it does transpire that your friend Mr Levine is the mystery buyer. !!

Regards, Ricardo.

Edited May 6, 2009 by RitchieAndrew

[Guest ScooterNik]

Care to name the source of your information?

I'd guess at:

One copy from the Motown vault.

One copy from the Jobette vault.

One copy from ARP manager.

One copy possibly owned by Berry Gordy, though there seems to be a lot of discussion about whether he has one or not?

[Christian Punky]

From Soul-City Gothenburgs morning paper (Gothenburg Post), reporting on the happenings on the Soul Scene as usual! ;-)

[Soulfulsolutions]

Apparently Alistair Darling has put it down on his expense claim as "leisure item" lol

Tony C.

If I am not mistaken he also claims for those high maintenance eyebrows as well!