Condition, Condition, Condition

[Mark Bicknell]

Just been flicking around Ebay playing a few sound clips of one or two of the bigger ticket items currently on offer and have noticed despite the poor condition of the records the bidding is still pretty serious, now correct me if I'm wrong but in my thirty or so years in collecting, wheeling and dealing in records condition has alway's been the single most important factor for me and I'm sure many others, despite this it would seem that some collectors are happy to have the records no matter how poor the condition is, there is currently a Jackey Beavers - Revilot on offer with a top bid of over $500.00 and I suspect it will finish a lot higher than that, the record is described as VG yet the sound clip to me say's otherwise it's noisy, hissy and IMO not worth having as it will only get worse with play's, so is it sometimes more about actually owning the original record, it's label and history rather than actually having a first class copy that will do what it's intended to do and that is play? seems a little more like stamp collecting than record collecting as there is nothing worse than hearing a tune at a venue that has seen better day's even worse actually owning a copy of a top tune in very poor condition just for the sake of having it.

The general opinion from most record dealers is condition is paramount and is the major factor in the buying and selling of records or is there certain records and instances that this rule does not apply? as I can't see the point in having a record in my box which I can't play because it's dished, of course it's getting harder to source clean copies of forty year old records but if a record is in poor condition no matter what it is then it to a point has to be worthless, if Kenny's Frank Wilson hissed and popped all the way through would it still sell for thousands? or is it more also about the kudos of owing something which is almost

unique?

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[bri pinch]

HAVE TO AGREE IN THE MAIN MARK, STRANGE IN THESE DAYS OF OVER INFLATED PRICES AND RECORDS MORE READILY AVAILABLE THAN IN THE PAST SOME PEOPLE MAKE DO WITH BELOW PAR COPIES. ME PERSONALLY, I DONT HAVE MANY RECORDS WHICH LOOK TRASHED BUT ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS..... TEMPOS ON DIAMOND JIM AND JOHNNY HAMPTON ON DOTTY'S SPRING TO MIND MY COPIES DONT LOOK VERY GOOD BUT WHEN THE NEEDLE HITS THE RECORD PLAY WITH BARELY A POP. THE RECORDS AT LEAST NEED TO BE AUDIABLE AND IF THEY AIN'T, LIKE SOME OF THE STUFF YOU SEE ON THE BAY, MIGHT AS WELL CHUCK EM IN THE DUMPER.

BRI PINCH.

SUNDAY CHILLOUT, 7TH JUNE, HORSE AND GROOM PUB, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER.

Edited April 26, 2009 by bri pinch

[Jumpinjoan]

I must admit at times my box looks a bit like the home for unwanted 45s. Well, someone's got to love them

I am not fussed about what the record looks like as long as it plays ok.

Visual condition is not an issue for me, although playable condition is.

That said, I don't pay a lot for anything, be it in good or not so good condition.

Different if you buy and sell though

[bri pinch]

I must admit at times my box looks a bit like the home for unwanted 45s. Well, someone's got to love them

I am not fussed about what the record looks like as long as it plays ok.

Visual condition is not an issue for me, although playable condition is.

That said, I don't pay a lot for anything, be it in good or not so good condition.

Different if you buy and sell though

TRUE JOAN, RATHER HAVE A RECORD THAT LOOKS TRASHED AND PLAYS THAN ONE THAT LOOKS THE DOGS BUT DONT,

BEST, BRI.

SUNDAY CHILLOUT, 7TH JUNE, HORSE AND GROOM PUB, EAST LAITH GATE, DONCASTER.

[Supercorsa]

I am not fussed about what the record looks like as long as it plays ok.

Visual condition is not an issue for me, although playable condition is.

That said, I don't pay a lot for anything, be it in good or not so good condition.

A woman after my own heart.

[arnie j]

i actually use the trashed record situation to my collecting advantage,most dealers reduce the price dramatically if the tune looks beat up, especially lable damaged 45s, ive bought loads of bargains cos the record looks bad but plays like a dream, i wouldnt pay for a record that was unplayable though

[viphitman]

Very odd indeed. Some people buy cheap to give it a good skim & clean but maybe its for... hey, I play the boot but I got the original in my box ...But at that price probably not!!! Anyway, I aggree condition, condition !!! It#s for listening pleasure after all !! Although, I collect Ska & Reggae as well, which comes with funny grading sometimes I can tell you.

A Soulies VG- is a Reggae Boys Ex

[Steve L]

Call me a weirdo if you want but I get almost as much pleasure from looking at my records as listening to them

A lovely, shiny, mark free record is a joy to behold

Condition is paramount

[Jumpinjoan]

Call me a weirdo if you want but I get almost as much pleasure from looking at my records as listening to them

A lovely, shiny, mark free record is a joy to behold

Condition is paramount

Weirdo

[Steve L]

Weirdo

[Val (Chunky)]

I must admit at times my box looks a bit like the home for unwanted 45s. Well, someone's got to love them

I am not fussed about what the record looks like as long as it plays ok.

Visual condition is not an issue for me, although playable condition is.

That said, I don't pay a lot for anything, be it in good or not so good condition.

Different if you buy and sell though

Must admit I do allways try and get good condition copies of records but in the end the record I guess has had a history and if it has picked up the odd war wound in the process then so be it.

beautiful sentiments Joan............ya gotta love this woman

[Codfromderby]

Must admit I do allways try and get good condition copies of records but in the end the record I guess has had a history and if it has picked up the odd war wound in the process then so be it.

beautiful sentiments Joan............ya gotta love this woman

being a bit romantic here, i reckon if a record is well worn when you get it from the states it may mean its got history and a past life, e.g. bought a copy of exus trek from the states years ago, it arrived well worn and dirty, it still plays great, who owned it first ?, where was it played in the states and who originally bought and played it,

by the way my record box looks like a car boot reject, but god its got memories and character (how do you spell that)

Edited April 26, 2009 by codfromderby

[Samson]

Many people on ebay don't know any other source for their records so when something comes around....thats it for them. Rare soul records seem to cycle thru soul source quicker too. That being said....ebay is a great place to sell off low grade copies after you upgrade to M copies on soulsource.

[Windlesoul]

Agree there needs to be a compromise sometimes. Nobody would ever have a Detroit collection if we didn't accept anything less than mint!

Mark

[Gene-r]

I wonder if top dollar spent on knackered copies could be due to the fact that top class rarities like these don't turn up that often, and the worry that sooner, rather than later, supply will eventually die out? Not counting things like Clara Hardy or the Royal Esquires of course!

[Mark Bicknell]

I wonder if top dollar spent on knackered copies could be due to the fact that top class rarities like these don't turn up that often, and the worry that sooner, rather than later, supply will eventually die out? Not counting things like Clara Hardy or the Royal Esquires of course!

I'm not talking about visual grading here my point is on the audible side, I can not see the point in investing money in records which hiss, pop and sound terrible just for the sake of having it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Len]

I'm not talking about visual grading here my point is on the audible side, I can not see the point in investing money in records which hiss, pop and sound terrible just for the sake of having it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Hi Mark

Your right, there is no point - Who would buy a record that doesn't play?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for most DJ's it does help if your records play!... - If the label is in good nick, it's a bonus. That's the difference between the 'DJ' and the 'Serious Collector'. I can't get my head round the fact if a serious collector finally comes across a really rare piece, if the condition isn't good, they would still not buy it...I think this is true anyway.

Len.

Edited April 27, 2009 by LEN

[Guest mel brat]

I have to agree with Mark's initial comments. However, that may be a somewhat "generational" thing, as it became quite easy (even expected!) in the late 70s/early 80s that records arrive in virtually MINT condition - often in the original bag! Consequently (some of us) got rather spoiled, and I've sent several items back to source (notably Ronnie McNeir on DE-TO) because they didn't live up to my own high expectations!

I remember a friend once paid about £350 for a copy of Mel Britt which when it arrived, was literally unlistenable with very loud hissing throughout! When he rang the dealer (who shall remain nameless!) the response was "Oh well send it back then - the Japanese will have it!" A statement of staggering cynicism in my view, which did nothing to inspire trust in his condition ratings!

However, the non-availability (and high prices) of rare records nowadays means that my personal preferences are probably as obsolete and behind-the-times as much of my record collection, but hey... I usually can't afford to buy 'em at all nowadays, let alone UPGRADE 'em later!

Edited April 28, 2009 by mel brat

[Mark Bicknell]

I have to agree with Mark's initial comments. However, that may be a somewhat "generational" thing, as it became quite easy (even expected!) in the late 70s/early 80s that records arrive in virtually MINT condition - often in the original bag! Consequently (some of us) got rather spoiled, and I've sent several items back to source (notably Ronnie McNeir on DE-TO) because they didn't live up to my own high expectations!

I remember a friend once paid about £350 for a copy of Mel Britt which when it arrived, was literally unlistenable with very loud hissing throughout! When he rang the dealer (who shall remain nameless!) the response was "Oh well send it back then - the Japanese will have it!" A statement of staggering cynicism in my view, which did nothing to inspire trust in his condition ratings!

However, the non-availability (and high prices) of rare records nowadays means that my personal preferences are probably as obsolete and behind-the-times as much of my record collection, but hey... I usually can't afford to buy 'em at all nowadays, let alone UPGRADE 'em later!

Not a generational thing at all again I can't see the point in buying noisy bad condition records just for the sake of having them is my point, yes harder to find clean copies now but some of the records on offer are worthless if they don't play no matter how rare or hard to find they are.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest]

Not a generational thing at all again I can't see the point in buying noisy bad condition records just for the sake of having them is my point, yes harder to find clean copies now but some of the records on offer are worthless if they don't play no matter how rare or hard to find they are.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I am in the 'bottom league' when it comes to the price range of records (even more so since becoming unemployed this year) however it is the condition of play that is most important to me - be it £15 or £150 i've spent.

Of course it is nice to have a good looking label and nice shiny vinyl but it all means nothing if the record has hiss, pops, clicks etc. So I am with you Mark, cant see the point in buying them

More to the point:

I have bought many a record that has been graded VG+ or EX or NM and the sound quality does not match the grading

I accept that grading will vary from person to person but sometimes the sound quality suggests that the seller is just taking the p*ss

[Guest mel brat]

I accept that grading will vary from person to person but sometimes the sound quality suggests that the seller is just taking the p*ss

Agreed, and there's a lot of it about, unfortunately. It's a minefield out there!

[Guest mel brat]

Not a generational thing at all again I can't see the point in buying noisy bad condition records just for the sake of having them is my point, yes harder to find clean copies now but some of the records on offer are worthless if they don't play no matter how rare or hard to find they are.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Quite. That's what I think too. I just meant that some (presumably) younger and weathier collectors evidently think differently!

[Dennisoul]

I`ve often settled for lesser condition records, but they`ve got to play well or whats the point.

[Kris Holmes]

I have to laugh sometimes when ebay listings have a sound clip which don't do the record any favors. I was looking at bidding on a NM graded 45 a week or so back, played the sound clip & thought it sounded VG+ at best, so I didn't bid. If the seller hadn't had the clip I would have bid no question. Anyhow, condition is frustrating, I've been pulling out 45s to upgrade from my collection recently & I'm really struggling to find copies to improve the ones I already have with, I thought that with some of them "minting up" would be easy, but things aren't as plentiful as they used to be unfortunately.

[Guest]

Many people on ebay don't know any other source for their records so when something comes around....thats it for them. Rare soul records seem to cycle thru soul source quicker too. That being said....ebay is a great place to sell off low grade copies after you upgrade to M copies on soulsource.

i wonder if the other side to this could be said could ebay be a good place to upgrade, and soul source be a place to sell off low grade copies?

just a thought

[Steve G]

Don't care what condition you have for personal use, but DJ's need to have records in at least vg+ condition. Was at a gig a few months ago and one of the DJs had knackered copies of rarities.....so bad I thought the chip pan in the back of the attached restaurant had been switched on inadvertently.....it spoilt the whole experience for the audience really.

[Mark Bicknell]

Don't care what condition you have for personal use, but DJ's need to have records in at least vg+ condition. Was at a gig a few months ago and one of the DJs had knackered copies of rarities.....so bad I thought the chip pan in the back of the attached restaurant had been switched on inadvertently.....it spoilt the whole experience for the audience really.

Personal use or DJ use for me records have to be at the very least VG+ and I'm talking UK VG+ and not what the Americans often call VG+ when the records are far from that grading, records are for playing not looking at the pretty paper bit in the middle as I've said throughout this thread I can not see the point in owning records which are unplayable it does not make any sense to me having for the having sake.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest eddiep]

I think everyone's got their own idea about grading and what's Mint, E, VG etc.

I've had stuff off big, big dealers and to be honest been well pissed off after paying and expecting a Mint 45 when it turns up E. (d/h, writing, X's, water staining etc.)

Fussy........?

Well when I'm paying top dollar I want top goods ya know! And that includes not only the sound quality but the label too. That's Mint to me anyway.

Don't get me wrong though, If I expect something of a lesser grade then fine, but the price has got to reflect that imo.

I know everyone has their own idea of what acceptable is, and it is a personal view.

As a collector I have mine, but obviously there ain't much point in buying something if you can't play it or the sound quality is shite as Mark said.

Unless of course your getting it for nothing and can turn it into a nice coaster, clock or fruit bowl or something of course!

Btw Mark. Did you get things sorted your end ?? R.e. Magnificent 7 from a few weeks back.

[Steve G]

Personal use or DJ use for me records have to be at the very least VG+ and I'm talking UK VG+ and not what the Americans often call VG+ when the records are far from that grading, records are for playing not looking at the pretty paper bit in the middle as I've said throughout this thread I can not see the point in owning records which are unplayable it does not make any sense to me having for the having sake.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I agree for me personally wouldn't entertain anything less than vg+ or with loads of noise.....

[Mark Bicknell]

I think everyone's got their own idea about grading and what's Mint, E, VG etc.

I've had stuff off big, big dealers and to be honest been well pissed off after paying and expecting a Mint 45 when it turns up E. (d/h, writing, X's, water staining etc.)

Fussy........?

Well when I'm paying top dollar I want top goods ya know! And that includes not only the sound quality but the label too. That's Mint to me anyway.

Don't get me wrong though, If I expect something of a lesser grade then fine, but the price has got to reflect that imo.

I know everyone has their own idea of what acceptable is, and it is a personal view.

As a collector I have mine, but obviously there ain't much point in buying something if you can't play it or the sound quality is shite as Mark said.

Unless of course your getting it for nothing and can turn it into a nice coaster, clock or fruit bowl or something of course!

Btw Mark. Did you get things sorted your end ?? R.e. Magnificent 7 from a few weeks back.

Hi mate, still in litigation with pay pal so nothing sorted as yet, seems their customer trust and service is well below par, not going to let it go though I can't, will keep you posted.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Little-stevie]

i actually use the trashed record situation to my collecting advantage,most dealers reduce the price dramatically if the tune looks beat up, especially lable damaged 45s, ive bought loads of bargains cos the record looks bad but plays like a dream, i wouldnt pay for a record that was unplayable though

Me too.. Can buy lable damaged copies cheaper and scruffy looking ones too.. ITS THEM CLEAN CLEAN MINT UNPLAYED copies that do nothing for me , give me something thats been bashed about a little, just like a retro leather sofa that looks like its been sat on and not the showroom copy..

The new big topic.. Mint v Vg+...

[Mark Bicknell]

Just bought five forty year old plus records this week all arrived in first class playable nice clean condition with no hiss, pops, clicks, jumps or surface noise so it can be done lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest gfarrington]

Hi Mark

Your right, there is no point - Who would buy a record that doesn't play?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for most DJ's it does help if your records play!... - If the label is in good nick, it's a bonus. That's the difference between the 'DJ' and the 'Serious Collector'. I can't get my head round the fact if a serious collector finally comes across a really rare piece, if the condition isn't good, they would still not buy it...I think this is true anyway.

Len.

i know someone who bought a copy of ' eye foe a eye' described as unplayable,cleaned it up & now dj's with it,so sometimes a gamble pays off

[Guest]

love that post, got some great early ska, and some great rockin rnb in crap condition, would like mint copies but in the mean time i,ll make do with the copies that may have a history and still play, in fact ive said this before, the crap condition copies have more charachter, just bought a copy of al kent "actin" in very worn but playable nick for next to nowt from the states, my thought is who owed it and played it so much it is knackered whilst it was still in the states, i had my old copy in the uk for 20 years and played it loads and its still in great nick, just a thought

As a lover of Jamaican 60s 45s, If I was that particular about condition ............ I would not own any !!!!!!!!!!

As time goes on .... these things get harder to find, expecially in a 3rd world country like JA

So your acceptable condition is down to yourself / price / availability / can u fix it / how deep is the damage / label wear / etc

The choice is down to you !

Great when there are many copys of an in-demander for sale but not so good when a 60s Ska tune that you have never seen before on e bay comes up for sale in vg - !

what would you do ?

Mossy

[Guest]

As a lover of Jamaican 60s 45s, If I was that particular about condition ............ I would not own any !!!!!!!!!!

As time goes on .... these things get harder to find, expecially in a 3rd world country like JA

So your acceptable condition is down to yourself / price / availability / can u fix it / how deep is the damage / label wear / etc

The choice is down to you !

Great when there are many copys of an in-demander for sale but not so good when a 60s Ska tune that you have never seen before on e bay comes up for sale in vg - !

what would you do ?

Mossy

spend my money on some proper music - like northern soul

[Guest]

spend my money on some proper music - like northern soul

DONT WORRY ............. I DO

I Will dig up some bad looking 60s Soul 45s that play mint tommorow !

Edited May 5, 2009 by mossy

[Mark Bicknell]

Mossy, I take your point about bad looking records that play ok etc. my original point was aimed at records which sound and play badly and will not improve no matter how much you clean or fiddle with them, again it matters very little how rare a record is if it's fcuked it's worthless and not worth owing if you can't play it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest]

Mossy, I take your point about bad looking records that play ok etc. my original point was aimed at records which sound and play badly and will not improve no matter how much you clean or fiddle with them, again it matters very little how rare a record is if it's fcuked it's worthless and not worth owing if you can't play it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I totally get you Mark - The knackard Jackie Beavers styrene 45 which will never be rescued , and I agree...

I do pay for my tunes, and when I do pay money they have to be decent condition.

This is just my point with bits n bobs you can rescue and take a gamble with if you are brave enough and get them cheap !

Great topic! Makes a change from Pie Charts

Mossy

[Guest Lobster Madras]

I totally get you Mark - The knackard Jackie Beavers styrene 45 which will never be rescued , and I agree...

I do pay for my tunes, and when I do pay money they have to be decent condition.

This is just my point with bits n bobs you can rescue and take a gamble with if you are brave enough and get them cheap !

Great topic! Makes a change from Pie Charts

Mossy

This is a classic collector/DJ dilemma .. the great sounding beat up looking copy of a rare 45 for half the price has always been a very attractive option for me. With Ebay and USA conservative vg gradings, you always have a chance of a cheap, great sounding copy. I've owned cracked and taped 45s for years because they are worthless, and sound brilliant..

Always a chance to" mint- up " at a later date, once you got your playing copy !

[Guest DeeJay]

Just been flicking around Ebay playing a few sound clips of one or two of the bigger ticket items currently on offer and have noticed despite the poor condition of the records the bidding is still pretty serious, now correct me if I'm wrong but in my thirty or so years in collecting, wheeling and dealing in records condition has alway's been the single most important factor for me and I'm sure many others, despite this it would seem that some collectors are happy to have the records no matter how poor the condition is, there is currently a Jackey Beavers - Revilot on offer with a top bid of over $500.00 and I suspect it will finish a lot higher than that, the record is described as VG yet the sound clip to me say's otherwise it's noisy, hissy and IMO not worth having as it will only get worse with play's, so is it sometimes more about actually owning the original record, it's label and history rather than actually having a first class copy that will do what it's intended to do and that is play? seems a little more like stamp collecting than record collecting as there is nothing worse than hearing a tune at a venue that has seen better day's even worse actually owning a copy of a top tune in very poor condition just for the sake of having it.

The general opinion from most record dealers is condition is paramount and is the major factor in the buying and selling of records or is there certain records and instances that this rule does not apply? as I can't see the point in having a record in my box which I can't play because it's dished, of course it's getting harder to source clean copies of forty year old records but if a record is in poor condition no matter what it is then it to a point has to be worthless, if Kenny's Frank Wilson hissed and popped all the way through would it still sell for thousands? or is it more also about the kudos of owing something which is almost

unique?

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Must admit would love all my records in mint condition But beggars can't be choosers i try to get as playable a copy as possible Must play all the way through without jumping or skipping Audibly should be able to listen and dance to it.Some records don't come up for sale that often or might be too expensive at the time . My intention is to improve on the condition next time i see one in better nick and i have the spons available

DJ

[Guest alanbonthrone]

E.Bay Item No. 300311868047