Warps And Drill Holes

[Guest wigantojapan]

what causes a record to warp and why are there drill holes

[Sebastian]

what causes a record to warp

Heat, or the 45 being placed in a stressing position during a lengthy period of time. Combine these two and you're in for disaster.

and why are there drill holes

To denote that the record is a "cut-out" copy (sold at a discounted price) and could not be returned to the store you bought it in or to the record distributor where the store got their records from. The same goes for the splashes of gold paint that can be found on the labels of many 45s.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Sebastian

[pikeys dog]

The same goes for the splashes of gold paint that can be found on the labels of many 45s.

Usually on Styrene 45s from the ABC label group - they obviously crack when being drilled.

Early west coast Tamla releases have NR in black marker on them as well...

[Guest wigantojapan]

Heat, or the 45 being placed in a stressing position during a lengthy period of time. Combine these two and you're in for disaster.

can you elaborate more about a stressing position

To denote that the record is a "cut-out" copy (sold at a discounted price) and could not be returned to the store you bought it in or to the record distributor where the store got their records from. The same goes for the splashes of gold paint that can be found on the labels of many 45s.

[Guest wigantojapan]

can you elaborate more about stressing position

[MarkWhiteley]

Usually on Styrene 45s from the ABC label group - they obviously crack when being drilled.

Early west coast Tamla releases have NR in black marker on them as well...

Seem to remember being told years ago (or have I made this up ) that the drill holes were for 'hanging' the records to prevent storage warp - anyone else heard this?

People in the know often refer to the DH as deletion hole so perhaps that blows my theory

M.

[Ged Parker]

can you elaborate more about stressing position

Sebastian means the 45 is under stress of pressure. For example if it is stored leaning with a lot of other 45's against it this causes stress and bends the vinyl over time this warp becomes 'permanent'.

The DH or BB hole is done by distributors to denote the records are not on sale or return as many records were in the 60's. With LP's they either drill a hole in the corner of the cover, place a saw cut there or cut off the corner of the cover. This is where the term cut out comes from.

Never heard the theory about hanging them to stop warping but I guess if you wanted to do tht you'd just use the centre hole surely?

[Guest wigantojapan]

Sebastian means the 45 is under stress of pressure. For example if it is stored leaning with a lot of other 45's against it this causes stress and bends the vinyl over time this warp becomes 'permanent'.

The DH or BB hole is done by distributors to denote the records are not on sale or return as many records were in the 60's. With LP's they either drill a hole in the corner of the cover, place a saw cut there or cut off the corner of the cover. This is where the term cut out comes from.

Never heard the theory about hanging them to stop warping but I guess if you wanted to do tht you'd just use the centre hole surely?

just read on the net that placing warped 45's inbetween lp 's vertically can unwarp the 45 over time.

If they are strored vertically does tgis make them less prone to warp than stored horizontally?

[MarkWhiteley]

Sebastian means the 45 is under stress of pressure. For example if it is stored leaning with a lot of other 45's against it this causes stress and bends the vinyl over time this warp becomes 'permanent'.

The DH or BB hole is done by distributors to denote the records are not on sale or return as many records were in the 60's. With LP's they either drill a hole in the corner of the cover, place a saw cut there or cut off the corner of the cover. This is where the term cut out comes from.

Never heard the theory about hanging them to stop warping but I guess if you wanted to do tht you'd just use the centre hole surely?

Kinda makes my theory a bit ridiculous Ged - never thought of using centre

M.

[Ged Parker]

just read on the net that placing warped 45's inbetween lp 's vertically can unwarp the 45 over time.

If they are strored vertically does tgis make them less prone to warp than stored horizontally?

If they are vertical all the pressure is in the edge and only the wieght of the 45 is on the edge. If you store them horizontaly with no weight on top and away from heat they should stay flat too but they'd take up a hell of a lot of room

[Guest]

just read on the net that placing warped 45's inbetween lp 's vertically can unwarp the 45 over time.

If they are strored vertically does tgis make them less prone to warp than stored horizontally?

How long will you wait for the warp to go by doing that, say a few 100 years?

[Guest wigantojapan]

How long will you wait for the warp to go by doing that, say a few 100 years?

guy claimed it happened in 6 months.

[Guest wigantojapan]

what about paper sleeves as opposed to cardboard sleeves ,is that a factor as well?

[Samson]

just read on the net that placing warped 45's inbetween lp 's vertically can unwarp the 45 over time.

If they are strored vertically does tgis make them less prone to warp than stored horizontally?

If heat was involved in warping the record it may require a little bit of heat to flatten it out. Be very careful!! There is plenty of information online describing numerous ways to flatten a record. Read all of them and then think twice. There is a machine designed to flatten them too but its quite expensive.

Hope this helps....good luck.

Dan

[Guest]

Heat, or the 45 being placed in a stressing position during a lengthy period of time. Combine these two and you're in for disaster.

I agree but that being said, I think a lot of the warped records we find actually came warped from the pressing plants. I don't know the technical cause for this, but I think something about how long they dry after being pressed is a factor that can cause dishwarp.

Anyone beying new releases can verify that a new record can come warped from the pressing plant.

[Guest wigantojapan]

I agree but that being said, I think a lot of the warped records we find actually came warped from the pressing plants. I don't know the technical cause for this, but I think something about how long they dry after being pressed is a factor that can cause dishwarp.

Anyone beying new releases can verify that a new record can come warped from the pressing plant.

the record in question is a new release.

Its not too badly warped but i never noriced it before or maybe i wasnt paying so much attention as i was wrappped up in the sound .

I took it to a cafe to play and the weight on the turntable was too heavy so when i got home i looked at it more carefully also listening for hiss ,thats when i saw the warp

[Chalky]

Seem to remember being told years ago (or have I made this up ) that the drill holes were for 'hanging' the records to prevent storage warp - anyone else heard this?

People in the know often refer to the DH as deletion hole so perhaps that blows my theory

M.

but why drill a hole to hang it from when there's a biggun in the middle

I have heard the tale that records were used for ballast on ships though.

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

Yes this is true.

KTF

Baz

I have heard the tale that records were used for ballast on ships though.

[Steve G]

Sebastian means the 45 is under stress of pressure. For example if it is stored leaning with a lot of other 45's against it this causes stress and bends the vinyl over time this warp becomes 'permanent'.

The DH or BB hole is done by distributors to denote the records are not on sale or return as many records were in the 60's. With LP's they either drill a hole in the corner of the cover, place a saw cut there or cut off the corner of the cover. This is where the term cut out comes from.

Never heard the theory about hanging them to stop warping but I guess if you wanted to do tht you'd just use the centre hole surely?

I have thousands of records stored horizontally (i.e on top of each other) and haven't seen any evidence of warping......plenty of evidence of the piles falling over especially when the reverb from the speakers causes the piles to virbate and then topple.

[Guest newone]

Heat, or the 45 being placed in a stressing position during a lengthy period of time. Combine these two and you're in for disaster.

To denote that the record is a "cut-out" copy (sold at a discounted price) and could not be returned to the store you bought it in or to the record distributor where the store got their records from. The same goes for the splashes of gold paint that can be found on the labels of many 45s.

is the term bb hole not short for bagain basement,

[Guest newone]

is the term bb hole not short for bagain basement,

[Guest Dante]

Seem to remember being told years ago (or have I made this up ) that the drill holes were for 'hanging' the records to prevent storage warp - anyone else heard this?

People in the know often refer to the DH as deletion hole so perhaps that blows my theory

M.

It sounds silly if you have the center hole, but I have also heard this one...

[hrtshpdbox]

I have thousands of records stored horizontally (i.e on top of each other) and haven't seen any evidence of warping...

I think it's fine to store 45s horizontally, though standing up is probably still preferred. LPs, though (if anyone owns any of those), have got to be vertical - they don't have the "label bump" of 45s to keep the weight from pressing directly against the vinyl.

[pikeys dog]

is the term bb hole not short for bagain basement,

No, it's short for Ball Bearing - after the guns that used to shoot them - a bit like an Air Pistol, but instaed of pellets, they fired Ball Bearings.

The hole in the record is about the size that one of these ball bearings would make (if it didn't shatter the record first)

[Concrete]

Have we established that the hole was made by a drill or a heated "prong" some records are left with residue on the lable.

Were records drilled individually in batches?

[pikeys dog]

Have we established that the hole was made by a drill or a heated "prong" some records are left with residue on the lable.

Were records drilled individually in batches?

All drilled.

Go and use a drill for ten minutes, then grab the drill bit, and you'll realise why this is the case.

[Steve G]

No, it's short for Ball Bearing - after the guns that used to shoot them - a bit like an Air Pistol, but instaed of pellets, they fired Ball Bearings.

The hole in the record is about the size that one of these ball bearings would make (if it didn't shatter the record first)

Many a true word spoken in jest Pikeys dog. The reason there are so few copies of Tommy Ridgeley on "International City" is that the label owner used most of the press run which didn't sell as target practice for his kids air rifles........they'd put copies of the record up and shoot at it like others would with coke tins.........true story.

[MarkWhiteley]

I have thousands of records stored horizontally (i.e on top of each other) and haven't seen any evidence of warping......plenty of evidence of the piles falling over especially when the reverb from the speakers causes the piles to virbate and then topple.

Rather than reverb or vibration from the speakers, its usually Missus W rattling round the 'out of bounds room' with the hoover that Knocks my piles over

M.

[MarkWhiteley]

It sounds silly if you have the center hole, but I have also heard this one...

I knew I hadn't made it up

my North eastern buddy has a theory regarding 'Select-o-Matic' Juke boxes and a locating hole ????

maybe he'll spill the beans on this one.....................

M.

[phatspinner]

On the subject of cut outs and their place in the US Music Industry can I recommend the book "Stiffed - a true story of MCA, The Music business and the Mafia" by William Knoedelseder.

It's 400 odd pages and quite hard going in parts but there's some fascinating detail on John La Monte's House of Sounds operation in Darby Pa from where I believe many of the first big sounds were sourced in quantity. (There's also some great detail on counterfeiting!)

I got the book in the UK remaindered some years ago but there's great stuff in it about characters like Morris Levy of Roulette records and his Mafia Connections.

[Steve G]

On the subject of cut outs and their place in the US Music Industry can I recommend the book "Stiffed - a true story of MCA, The Music business and the Mafia" by William Knoedelseder.

It's 400 odd pages and quite hard going in parts but there's some fascinating detail on John La Monte's House of Sounds operation in Darby Pa from where I believe many of the first big sounds were sourced in quantity. (There's also some great detail on counterfeiting!)

I got the book in the UK remaindered some years ago but there's great stuff in it about characters like Morris Levy of Roulette records and his Mafia Connections.

There is another book that is a very good read on this as well - I have it somewhere......again references Morris Levy, the payola, Neil Bogart and his 'excesses at Casablance etc, and how the mob were shipping lorries full of records back and forth the country and claiming sales (this is where some of the daft sales figures you see come from), and of course the guy that ran Calla with his JAMF Production Company (Jive Ass Mother F**ker). Great read, but not all soul.

[Ged Parker]

Have we established that the hole was made by a drill or a heated "prong" some records are left with residue on the lable.

Were records drilled individually in batches?

Batches IMHO. Not only would it take too long individually bit also the residue is often flattened as if when warm it was still up close to another 45. Also if they were done individaully you would not get the occassional one with the DH in the run out which probably happened due to that one copy being out of allignment with the others being 'drilled'

[pikeys dog]

....there's some fascinating detail on John La Monte's House of Sounds operation in Darby Pa from where I believe many of the first big sounds were sourced in quantity. (There's also some great detail on counterfeiting!)

John Anderson can tell a few tales about this.... really interesting when you get a few glasses of wine down him and he gets on a roll....

[Guest newone]

No, it's short for Ball Bearing - after the guns that used to shoot them - a bit like an Air Pistol, but instaed of pellets, they fired Ball Bearings.

The hole in the record is about the size that one of these ball bearings would make (if it didn't shatter the record first)

cheers always wondered

[Guest Lobster Madras]

No, it's short for Ball Bearing - after the guns that used to shoot them - a bit like an Air Pistol, but instaed of pellets, they fired Ball Bearings.

The hole in the record is about the size that one of these ball bearings would make (if it didn't shatter the record first)

We shot Pink Floyd LPs as teenagers.. with Air Rifles . good sport. Not Syd Barrett era 'Floyd tho'