Grayson Perry’s The Full English C4 (inc Northern Soul Segment ) Ep3 Thur 9th Feb 9-10pm

It is interesting. 

I wonder who (s)he'll dig up, the cynical side of me says this will be another hatchet job/piss take  attempted nail in the coffin like Mr Flouncy and his  moves on that dance show a few years back.

The non cynical side of me  says this will open up the world of Northern soul to an expantant new aud....

Anyone know who's in it? 

2 hours ago, Bunderthollox said:

It is interesting. 

I wonder who (s)he'll dig up, the cynical side of me says this will be another hatchet job/piss take  attempted nail in the coffin like Mr Flouncy and his  moves on that dance show a few years back.

The non cynical side of me  says this will open up the world of Northern soul to an expantant new aud....

 

Anyone know who's in it? 

 

I think it is Jordan Wilson and Charlotte who he is speaking to and they chose the music not the production. @Backstreetniter

If last nights episode was anything to go by GP shows a lot of respect for his 'subjects' , which included a  Grime Rapper, Pub Landlord , and the owner of a Peak District tea room, all from the Asian community discussing amongst other things how they have absorbed these cultural spaces  , two of which involved moving beyond their own cultural backgrounds to adopt a new one. Sadly not without some shameless bigotry for the tea room manager  .  

What this country has done well going back hundreds or thousands of years is to absorb new ideas often delivered by migrants , and adapting or reinventing them  as our own.  Tea ,  Fish and Chips , Chicken Balti , Two Tone , Pantomime , and dare I suggest Northern Soul . What has been less easy is for migrants to find a comfortable English (as opposed to British)  identity , but both national sport , music , politics and events like the Queens funeral have progressed this. I really admire GP but don't share his reluctance to embrace English pride fearing that it might be misconstrued  for bigotry. That just surrenders Englishness to the bigots . KTF . Cool Notes 

Don’t know if this should be here or in ‘media’, however…….

Heads up, Ch4 tonight at 9.00pm, a program about music in the north of England. Includes Northern Soul in Wigan and Blackpool.

Let's hope it's not the usual standpoint of TV broadcast about Northern Soul!. They all take the attitude nobody's ever heard of this strange thing called Northern Soul!  For example, when you watch a football match they don't assume nobody's ever heard of it and talk as though it's something from outta space!

Usual twaddle , no surprise there ... 

GP did respect the scene and enjoyed the music, not sure about his dancing though.

Two topics merged into this current news article related one

Upped the first northern segment onto our youtube channel here

Nothing new to see here.............next..............

Cheers,

Mark R

Mainstream TV always make programmes that feature Northern Soul for people who are not into it and never have been!

It would be good to have a Northern Soul programme made for the people who are into it now and are part of the scene! About the records that are big now and who is playing them? What's happening in the record bar with prices etc? Who's doing the best dancing and where? Are there any new soul releases big on the scene, and other things that are relevant to the people who care!

But where would you draw the line if you made one now?

No mention of top 500,oldies nights, wigan etc. 

No featuring of the djs that hang on in the scene playing the same records from 40 years ago from 5 quid bootleg.

Whatever you covered people who are into the other parts would say its rubbish.

Would you cover r&b , soulful house,  40 year old modern or crossover? 

Would it mention cds, mp3s 

3 hours ago, Solidsoul said:

It would be good to have a Northern Soul programme made for the people who are into it now and are part of the scene! About the records that are big now and who is playing them? What's happening in the record bar with prices etc? Who's doing the best dancing and where? Are there any new soul releases big on the scene, and other things that are relevant to the people who care!

Yes, would be great to have somewhere to get all those things - some sort of source for soul.

Oh, wait…

Less publicity the better In my opinion.

3 hours ago, Solidsoul said:

Mainstream TV always make programmes that feature Northern Soul for people who are not into it and never have been!

It would be good to have a Northern Soul programme made for the people who are into it now and are part of the scene! About the records that are big now and who is playing them? What's happening in the record bar with prices etc? Who's doing the best dancing and where? Are there any new soul releases big on the scene, and other things that are relevant to the people who care!

I get what you say but Jordan and Charlotte are into today's scene, probably more so than anyone commenting on this topic.  I haven't watched the show yet so cannot comment on its content.    

Can any non cynics please show some clips of when the media got it right? Ensue tumbleweed alert!

Personally thought it was a good segment, you’re never going to please everyone but I think this was done well for the 10mins 

32 minutes ago, Shinehead said:

Less publicity the better In my opinion.

And this is exactly how the scene will die - if folks don’t know about it they can’t get into it…

Started off well then the usual regurgitated 40 year old impression of Northern Soul

46 minutes ago, Girdwoodinc said:

And this is exactly how the scene will die - if folks don’t know about it they can’t get into it…

But the scene is dying or at the very least struggling despite more people than ever allegedly into NS.  Niters are a pale shadow of their former self, one I did in a large venue a couple of months ago was crap, half full same old same.  

The scene never needed broadcasting to the world, no underground scene did, that is what made them cool.  Too manys people inhabit the scene who we went to niters to get away from, divs, bandwagon jumpers etc

Maybe it is the commercialisation that is having a detrimental effect on venues and the scene?

8 minutes ago, Chalky said:

But the scene is dying or at the very least struggling despite more people than ever allegedly into NS.  Niters are a pale shadow of their former self, one I did in a large venue a couple of months ago was crap, half full same old same.  

The scene never needed broadcasting to the world, no underground scene did, that is what made them cool.  Too manys people inhabit the scene who we went to niters to get away from, divs, bandwagon jumpers etc

Maybe it is the commercialisation that is having a detrimental effect on venues and the scene?

I think post covid has a lot to answer for as well Chalky plus the ever splitting up of the scene - that’s why I prefer Europe 

as for the scene being underground I get where you’re coming from but think about young kids that may not find out about it unless it is televised etc 

At the end of the day it is what it is but I still don’t like the gate keeper attitude in some places - after all surely this is about sharing the soul 

2 minutes ago, Girdwoodinc said:

I think post covid has a lot to answer for as well Chalky plus the ever splitting up of the scene - that’s why I prefer Europe 

as for the scene being underground I get where you’re coming from but think about as we are seeing young kids that may not find out about it unless it is televised etc 

At the end of the day it is what it is but I still don’t like the gate keeper attitude in some places - after all surely this is about sharing the soul 

but as kids we found it....as kids they found all the underground scenes over the decades without the need of advertising except in specialised press.  Kids/youth will always find something if they want something different to the life they have.

The gate keeper attitudes are what keep them special IMO, not just NS but any underground scene.   As soon as it is commercialised and diluted it is no longer special.

Not in agreement or disagreement with you Chalky, just looking at this from a different perspective 

I thought Grayson and Jordan “ brought” their “thing” to the explanation of N.S. well… Jordon on first hearing The Gambrells and Grayson  from his brush with the music from the past.  The people who don’t get Northern Soul are typically the people who have nothing to “ bring”. The “bring” part can be deep like Richards 450 odd nighters or less so with Grayson’s obvious joy of dancing till the sweat ran off him..

I just didn’t care for the footage of the Casino, in this context

P.S. Posting on mobile without my specs! Sorry if grammar is  awful.”

Agree i think as these things go is was a good segment and J&C came across great. Also like GP and thought he was very genial and genuine: liked it overall! We are not in an underground scene anymore and just need to accept that. It is what it is.

55 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Started off well then the usual regurgitated 40 year old impression of Northern Soul

And that was my only point mate...........

Cheers,

Mark R

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

but as kids we found it....as kids they found all the underground scenes over the decades without the need of advertising except in specialised press.  Kids/youth will always find something if they want something different to the life they have.

The gate keeper attitudes are what keep them special IMO, not just NS but any underground scene.   As soon as it is commercialised and diluted it is no longer special.

My son  is 16 and into what he calls proto metal, bands like mountain, groundhogs ect, point is he found it himself, and takes pride in that itself.

Watched the show thought  the young couple came across well ,  I was more intrigued though by Paul Heaton of The Housemartins and his odd collection of everything from Shoe horns, crisp packets and football scarfs and that's the most normal things ! 

I'm sick of the how we needed a release from the grim satanic mills. I went because it was cool the music and the fashion was all different to what the mainstream had to offer. It was a feeling of belonging and giving two fingers to the rest of the population who were tucked up in their beds when I was dancing, buzzing and solving the problems of the world. And let's not forget the journey. Hitching lifts, trains and bus. Getting in with a mate who had a car. I got me dad out of bed to take me to birch services so I could get a lift to Wigan. Mad times but great times! Two fingers to your dark times we lit up the night.

Pretty decent viewing with nothing unexpected or new, but that wasn’t the point of the programme. Thought Charlotte and particularly Jordon came across as perfect ambassadors. I always start to watch mainstream cover of the scene expecting to cringe. Pleasant surprise last night apart from the host’s novel dance moves!

1 hour ago, Shinehead said:

Watched the show thought  the young couple came across well ,  I was more intrigued though by Paul Heaton of The Housemartins and his odd collection of everything from Shoe horns, crisp packets and football scarfs and that's the most normal things ! 

 

 

 

Ha ha

Same here

I would have never have thought he would have such a collection of such things and his thoughts on how the rise of "Walkers" became the demise of many brands of crisps. Also the tin box full of miner's badges were poignant to that time in modern history.

6 hours ago, Wayoutgirl said:

Ha ha

Same here

I would have never have thought he would have such a collection of such things and his thoughts on how the rise of "Walkers" became the demise of many brands of crisps. Also the tin box full of miner's badges were poignant to that time in modern history.

 

Now there's a topic away from the obvious collecting of rare/ soul music etc , apologies if done before , what do you collect .

I have a collection of die cast minis , and my wife has a rather nice collection of cruets ( salt & pepper pots to you and me .)

Personally thought last night's visit into the world of Northern Soul ok , but to be honest To Late , but if all the footage from past times is of W.C. and nothing earlier or later , then ,,,, 

crudites?

Thought the whole programme was pretty decent, an eclectic mix of contributors from a range of backgrounds. Jordan’s record room was hugely impressive and a real insight into Englishness. Richard Searling’s contribution was excellent as always. The Northern tunes were OK but Marvin’sLove Starved Heart could have been bettered by hundreds of other USA records. Usual Wigan footage of spinning miners and back-dropping factory workers might have opened a few young eyes - just a shame there’s so little video evidence of the Casino in its heyday.

2 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

Now there's a topic away from the obvious collecting of rare/ soul music etc , apologies if done before , what do you collect .

I have a collection of die cast minis , and my wife has a rather nice collection of crudités ( salt & pepper pots to you and me .)

Personally thought last night's visit into the world of Northern Soul ok , but to be honest To Late , but if all the footage from past times is of W.C. and nothing earlier or later , then ,,,,

She collects fancily chopped and sliced raw vegetables ... how strange ... 

3 hours ago, Davemac3 said:

crudites?

Sorry Cruets, too much red wine and work, long week

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

She collects fancily chopped and sliced raw vegetables ... how strange ... 

Sorry too much red wine and very long week at work, Cruets salt and pepper sets !

Oh, and as a side issue, maybe we can drop the WC thing a bit after this 50th year!!

Away from the money to be made, from a musical perspective holding on to things like that does nobody any good on any healthy scene.  Respected and remembered yes, done to death and the be-all-end-all.......NO!!

Cheers,

Mark R

A mix of interesting views and same old same old. Bug bear of mine that I find very irritating happens all the time on Youtube why did they not just use the sound from the all nighter in the clips showing GP dancing instead over over dubbing with Judy Street or at least choose another tune from the thousands out there. I realise they like to have perfect sound quality but surely in this context better to at least try and convey some of the atmosphere of the night.  

17 hours ago, Happy Feet said:

Now there's a topic away from the obvious collecting of rare/ soul music etc , apologies if done before , what do you collect .

I have a collection of die cast minis , and my wife has a rather nice collection of cruets ( salt & pepper pots to you and me .)

Personally thought last night's visit into the world of Northern Soul ok , but to be honest To Late , but if all the footage from past times is of W.C. and nothing earlier or later , then ,,,, 

Collect the odd record now and then. In the past was an avid beer mat and Blue Peter annual  collector.

I liked the episode.  Think he came across well, with a genuine attitude and Jordan and Charlotte were the perfect hosts.   Would like to know what he was actually dancing to during that clip! but he seemed to enjoy himself.

On 10/02/2023 at 11:53, Chalky said:

I get what you say but Jordan and Charlotte are into today's scene, probably more so than anyone commenting on this topic.  I haven't watched the show yet so cannot comment on its content.    

Full respect to Jordan and Charlotte, who are true enthusiasts and contributors to the scene.

But, I'm always a bit put out by the entire "it only existed in the poor North" narrative. The midlands and many other (equally poor) areas across the UK had thriving venues that contributed to a thriving scene, and the people that put the 'real miles' into travelling to Wigan came from these outlying areas.
I was an apprentice in a factory in Grantham, my mate was an apprentice in a Derbyshire coal mine etc.....it wasn't all in the North.
It's the misappropriation and reification of the term "Northern Soul' that allows the false narrative to still gain traction in hastily/lazily made TV programmes. They take the term literally, which shows not only their stupidity, but their lack of research and respect for a truly complex cultural scene that has survived decades.
It's a bit like taking the term 'African Dance' and not recognising Africa is a continent that is made up of over 50 'other' countries that all contribute to the term and the form/genre.

These type of programmes represent TV sound bites that are useful to lazy directors and producers who wish to fill a slot without putting in any work.

I come from Corby in Northamptonshire, I went to the Torch in 72 , before becoming a regular at the Casino, but my wife who is a little older went to northern soul nighters in Northamptonshire, Leicestershire and Bedfordshire, long before ,