Wigan Chosen Few TOTP Tape Exists ?

Since posting in 2008 there's been a couple of threads and the showing up of some brief clips of the footage via a bbc documentary and the queen clip from the same show

Also have just seen the below dated 22 May 2012

https://rare-tv-archive.webuda.com/

if you go to the TOP OF THE POPS LOST STUDIO CLIPS SALE (part 2)

you see it listed as available

https://rare-tv-archive.webuda.com/

The email of the guy flogging seems familiar

I've got a couple of the bits he's selling and there's a good chance they could appear on TV in the future because TOTP 2 has already shown a perfect quality Showstoppers - Ain't Nothing But A Houseparty, part of one of his rare shows.

There is some footage of WCT on TOTP on this youtube clip from 1 min 15 secs for about 15 secs

the first post was from 2008  
i think theres a later thread maybe two or three going over similar but in more depth etc

had a request by the member to drop his post with a link to the full clip as appears that the actual posting of the video clip is causing a bit of a drama elsewhere

22 minutes ago, mike said:

had a request by the member to drop his post with a link to the full clip as appears that the actual posting of the video clip is causing a bit of a drama elsewhere

 

 

 

 

Shame Mike...PM me re 'drama', very curious. Did Gethro object to being seen in a Sunderland shirt? Clip reminded me what a bad prancer Sandy Holt was...

. Well put together  video in my opinion. What a tune.

Steve

The Google link's been deleted now by others so it wouldn't now be visible anyway , can't see what all the fuss was about really storm in a teacup ... 

It's a case of "Footseeee.......Noooooo!"

So, who were the Wigan's Chosen Few? What were their names? Is there a team photo of them out there? Who actually chose the group of dancers? I remember the TOTP clip at the time, yes a bit cheesy but not too zany for the era. Sure it is cringeworthy now but it is a footnote of some significance. I think the full clip should be in the public domain. It was once the property of the Beeb and then it left the building, another topic worthy of discussion? I can't recall the earlier thread but would appreciate any fresh info on the topic of 'The Wigangate Tapes'.

10 hours ago, Venus said:

Steve....I shared that clip with a friend who I've known for quite a while now...I had no idea he was going to share that clip with others after I asked him not to? apparently recorded the clip using his mobile and thankfully I had put a big logo on it as requested by a fellow collector who said ok to share with trusted friends but for it not to get out for all to see? I've never been one for keeping footage hidden and personally don't agree with it? However I've got to respect others wishes when asked not to? ps I can understand the history to it but I can't stand that tune!!!!

Why would you put a logo on it? That implies legal ownership and neither you or the person who gave it you legally "owns" the clip. It's a BBC clip. 

As Pete Smith doesn't appear to be active on SS and there is interest in the TOTPs recording I have copie what pete posted on FB for anyone wanting to see the video

 Hello. Right I have sussed out this video business so if any of you want to watch the Wigans Chosen Few "Footsee" TOTP 75 video this is what you have to do. This is a bit convoluted but it's the only thing we could come up with. I have full permission to post it now.

First you have to have a gmail account (google mail), if you haven't got one go to the address at the bottom. If you don't have gmail you cannot watch it.

Then you are going to have to message me to give me your email address. I will then add you to the list of people who can watch it. You will have to personal message me to do this (or email me if you already have my email address). Please be patient as I'll be offline all night obviously. You can post your email address here at your own risk from spammers.

When I have your address you'll get sent the link and you can watch it until the cows come home.

Anyone can copy this and paste it to Soul Source or anywhere else if they want to. I'd like everyone to be able to see it.

If you're not interested that's fine, but a lot of people still want to see it and this is the only way at the moment.

cheers

Pete Smith

7 hours ago, maslar said:

 

Why would you put a logo on it? That implies legal ownership and neither you or the person who gave it you legally "owns" the clip. It's a BBC clip. 

Obviously not if, as has been stated that the footage was bought in a job-lot with other clips!

On 02/11/2016 at 22:33, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

So, who were the Wigan's Chosen Few? What were their names? Is there a team photo of them out there? Who actually chose the group of dancers? I remember the TOTP clip at the time, yes a bit cheesy but not too zany for the era. Sure it is cringeworthy now but it is a footnote of some significance. I think the full clip should be in the public domain. It was once the property of the Beeb and then it left the building, another topic worthy of discussion? I can't recall the earlier thread but would appreciate any fresh info on the topic of 'The Wigangate Tapes'.

The obscure Canadian group Chosen Few had a single on Canadian-American in 1967 and originally released the surf-styled song ‘Footsee’ in 1968 in the USA on Roulette. It vanished without trace, but then at the height of the Britain’s northern soul craze, it reappeared when entrepreneur Simon Soussan discovered that its instrumental b-side, when sped up, made a wonderful northern soul record and he pressed some copies under the cover-up name the Sounds Of Soul. Dave McAleer’s Disco Demand label picked up the rights to the track, added sounds from the 1966 FA Cup Final and the sound of a steam hammer and sped it up to match Soussan’s version. Island Records insisted the act’s name be changed (as they represented reggae group the Chosen Few) and McAleer added the prefix Wigan’s as a tribute to the area where the record was already hitting. It shot into the UK Top 10 and exuberant northern soul dancing (a fore-runner of breakdancing) was seen for the first time nationwide when a group of selected club-goers danced to it on BBC television’s Top Of The Pops. Roulette knew nothing about the group or how to tell them of their success. Since they had recorded no more tracks for them a follow-up was never released.

On 03/11/2016 at 12:37, Steve S 60 said:

 

At least that gives it the credibility it deserves..............alongside such musical masterpieces as The Joker Went Wild &  Black Pudding Bertha!

Did anyone manage to see the clip of Footsee on Top Of The Pops on Facebook before it was removed. It is over forty years since I saw the clip. I know many hated the fact the Casino regulars were promoting an underground scene but, for me, although I had been going to soul clubs localy for some time the clip made me realise "I just had to go to Wigan" and I never looked back!

See the post from dedji1955 further up regarding getting to see it now.

34 minutes ago, Steve Lane said:

Obviously not if, as has been stated that the footage was bought in a job-lot with other clips!

 I'm not talking about physical ownership obviously. I'm not a member of the missing episodes forum but I view what's going on  there from time to time and some years ago it was news that a number of full episodes of TOTP that had thought to have been wiped existed. The owner of this lot had offered them for sale to the BBC who had declined on a matter of principle: that they didn't buy their own copyrighted material.  I believe some of these were then offered for general sale to the public although I haven't a clue what the cost was. That lot included the Jan 30 1975 edition I'm guessing  this is may be the source of the clip. Not that it matters. The fact that money exchanged hands is totally irrelevant. Someone has a copy. Someone makes a copy of that copy. There isn't really grounds for complaint. It doesn't "belong" to either of them.

Yes but has anyone claimed to own the rights to these clips seeing as the BBC don`t own them?....someone must have ownership.

8 hours ago, maslar said:

 

Why would you put a logo on it? That implies legal ownership and neither you or the person who gave it you legally "owns" the clip. It's a BBC clip. 

I DO NOT HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE...AS I'VE ALREADY SAID? RESPECTED THE WISHES OF ANOTHER COLLECTOR...THIS PERSON PAID A LOT OF MONEY FOR THE TOTPS FOOTAGE AT THE TIME...AND IF TRADING CLIPS WITH OTHER COLLECTORS MEANS KEEPING THEM TO MYSELF? THEN I DO...CERTAIN ONES I CAN SHARE WITH FRIENDS AND IF ONLY I PUT A BIG LOGO ON THEM...IN THIS CASE I'M GLAD I DID!! PLUS WAS TOLD PEOPLE ARE UNLIKELY TO WANT TO TRY AND DOWNLOAD IT...PUT ON DVDS AND SELL....WHICH I KNOW DOES HAPPEN.

Shame it's got so complicated, I would have liked to have seen it

This is from Pete Smith Planet Records;

Could someone please let them know on soul source that you do not need a gmail address to see the video, just a google account, and also that I cannot access any PM's because I can't log into soul source, thanks - if someone could just post this for me in SS I'd be grateful just in case people are PMing me and they think I'm not replying.

14 minutes ago, Venus said:

I DO NOT HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE...AS I'VE ALREADY SAID? RESPECTED THE WISHES OF ANOTHER COLLECTOR...THIS PERSON PAID A LOT OF MONEY FOR THE TOTPS FOOTAGE AT THE TIME...AND IF TRADING CLIPS WITH OTHER COLLECTORS MEANS KEEPING THEM TO MYSELF? THEN I DO...CERTAIN ONES I CAN SHARE WITH FRIENDS AND IF ONLY I PUT A BIG LOGO ON THEM...IN THIS CASE I'M GLAD I DID!! PLUS WAS TOLD PEOPLE ARE UNLIKELY TO WANT TO TRY AND DOWNLOAD IT...PUT ON DVDS AND SELL....WHICH I KNOW DOES HAPPEN.

You don't seem to get it. The wishes of another collector count for nothing really.  It's all meaningless. The material exists. it doesn't legally belong to the person who paid for it no more than the film I recorded last night on virgin on-demand belongs to me  It's no different to someone recording an edition of TOTP2..  The fact that it's rare doesn't have any bearing other than to those who want to keep it exclusive to themselves. But they have no legal right to do that. 

If such material "gets out" then it's just bad luck on the part of those who don't want it to.

16 minutes ago, Venus said:

I DO NOT HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE...AS I'VE ALREADY SAID? RESPECTED THE WISHES OF ANOTHER COLLECTOR...THIS PERSON PAID A LOT OF MONEY FOR THE TOTPS FOOTAGE AT THE TIME...AND IF TRADING CLIPS WITH OTHER COLLECTORS MEANS KEEPING THEM TO MYSELF? THEN I DO...CERTAIN ONES I CAN SHARE WITH FRIENDS AND IF ONLY I PUT A BIG LOGO ON THEM...IN THIS CASE I'M GLAD I DID!! PLUS WAS TOLD PEOPLE ARE UNLIKELY TO WANT TO TRY AND DOWNLOAD IT...PUT ON DVDS AND SELL....WHICH I KNOW DOES HAPPEN.

I don't know who's right and who's wrong in all this but as you have may have guessed, by the number of people on FB getting excited at seeing it or disappointed at missing it, this is important to quite a few. Its a part of our scenes history and our own long lost youth and to see it after 40 years is nice.

In an ideal world it should be in the public domain and not just for someone who paid money for it

1 hour ago, Steve Lane said:

Yes but has anyone claimed to own the rights to these clips seeing as the BBC don`t own them?....someone must have ownership.

The BBC "own" them but obviously they aren't going to mount a legal challenge. Imagine you had taped a tv drama back in 1980. Now all the episodes are lost, no longer in the BBC archive. You've legally still got ownership of your vhs copy. The BBC own the copyright but they aren't going to take you to court to get your copy  are they? Now imagine someone got hold of your copy and made a copy. Now there's two copies. The BBC still couldn't care less. You might be angry because up until this point you thought you were the only person on the face of gods green earth who could watch it but you have no legal recourse against  the person who copied your copy.

21 minutes ago, Chris Turnbull said:

Shame it's got so complicated, I would have liked to have seen it

It seems to me Pete Smith's just made it really simple.

just saying..there's more than two chosen few groups ?

On 03/11/2016 at 14:51, Baldsoulie said:

This is from Pete Smith Planet Records;

Could someone please let them know on soul source that you do not need a gmail address to see the video, just a google account, and also that I cannot access any PM's because I can't log into soul source, thanks - if someone could just post this for me in SS I'd be grateful just in case people are PMing me and they think I'm not replying.

for real?

here's the lost password feature link

1 hour ago, maslar said:

You don't seem to get it. The wishes of another collector count for nothing really.  It's all meaningless. The material exists. it doesn't legally belong to the person who paid for it no more than the film I recorded last night on virgin on-demand belongs to me  It's no different to someone recording an edition of TOTP2..  The fact that it's rare doesn't have any bearing other than to those who want to keep it exclusive to themselves. But they have no legal right to do that. 

If such material "gets out" then it's just bad luck on the part of those who don't want it to.

 

 

Are you shitting me? I fully understood what you were getting at!!....Your right collectors may not have the legal rights and want them exclusively for themselves but who can blame them? I don't see you doing the hard work of tracking them down then paying lots of money for it and then being happy when it 'leaks' out to the public for them to see for sod all? I'm so disappointed in that remark 'RESPECT FOR ANOTHER COLLECTOR MEANS NOTHING'?? WTF....Thankfully I do!!!

Just now, Venus said:

Are you shitting me? I fully understood what you were getting at!!....Your right collectors may not have the legal rights and want them exclusively for themselves but who can blame them? I don't see you doing the hard work of tracking them down then paying lots of money for it and then being happy when it 'leaks' out to the public for them to see for sod all? I'm so disappointed in that remark 'RESPECT FOR ANOTHER COLLECTOR MEANS NOTHING'?? WTF....Thankfully I do!!!

I was going to message you but you've saved me the trouble. It's come to my attention that you're putting it about oh fb that I have complained about you putting a logo on your clip. That is a lie. For the record it doesn't matter one iota to me. I really couldn't give a toss.  I was simply curious why you would go to the trouble since its usually something for original content. I asked a perfectly reasonable question out of curiosity. It wasn't a complaint in any way shape or form. Nor does it have any bearing on the topic.

All my comments were aimed at the clip above which has been in the public domain for over three years.  I know nothing about any facebook video. 

Quote

 

Watched it last night before it was took off and I cannot see what the fuss is all about, 1 and a half minutes of a crap record danced to by about 6 lads and lasses watched on by a bemused totps audience. 

13 minutes ago, shinehead said:

Watched it last night before it was took off and I cannot see what the fuss is all about, 1 and a half minutes of a crap record danced to by about 6 lads and lasses watched on by a bemused totps audience. 

Sure it's a tacky record but doesn't it make you feel a bit wistful and nostalgic for the golden era when soulies were young and fit and full of energy, not like most of today's crowd lol

19 minutes ago, shinehead said:

Watched it last night before it was took off and I cannot see what the fuss is all about, 1 and a half minutes of a crap record danced to by about 6 lads and lasses watched on by a bemused totps audience. 

Totally agree.  I saw it before it disappeared and can't say it was the Northern Soul Scene's finest moment.

Never ever in all my life have read so much bollocks.

If you were around at the time and a lover of soul music and a regular seasoned allnighter goer this was the singularly most embarrassing thing that could ever have happened! That is if you were really lucky and missed Wigan's Chosen Few poncing around to Skiing in the snow

It still gives me a cold chill when I remember that awful fucking night that those complete twats appeared on TOTP while my mum, dad, three sisters and a couple of their friends all pissed themselves and then asked me if I could get up and do that daft dancing for them. And made even worse by the fact that the picture sleeve clearly shows front centre stage the c@nt that ripped me off for tickets to the first anniversary!!

He still lives locally I am told, now where did I leave my baseball bat?

50 minutes ago, maslar said:

 

I was going to message you but you've saved me the trouble. It's come to my attention that you're putting it about oh fb that I have complained about you putting a logo on your clip. That is a lie. For the record it doesn't matter one iota to me. I really couldn't give a toss.  I was simply curious why you would go to the trouble since its usually something for original content. I asked a perfectly reasonable question out of curiosity. It wasn't a complaint in any way shape or form. Nor does it have any bearing on the topic.

All my comments were aimed at the clip above which has been in the public domain for over three years.  I know nothing about any facebook video. 

 

I may at times be hot headed and on the odd occasion get my knickers in a twist but I don't have a clue what your going on about? You see I don't have a facebook account and therefore I can't comment on it??

On 03/11/2016 at 12:37, Steve S 60 said:

 

Thanks for this Steve. I have the Chosen Few record but it has not been played in 20 years. I really wanted to know about the dance troupe - who chose the dancers and what were the dancers' names? I remember the episode vividly as it really put the underground scene on the front pages generating much ridicule, which sad to say, persists today.  Gethro Jones brings the topic up in his book and as a crack dancer at The Casino, understandably would be included in a collection of good dancers. When I was in Manchester in 1975, fellow student named Keith Jackson told me he was in Wigan's Chosen Few... a month later at the Casino, I asked Gethro if Keith Jackson was around and he said 'never heard of him'. Keith was from Wigan (or so he said) but evidently claimed some of the fame that rubbed off on the town - I wonder how many other lads claimed similar bragging rights at the time?

27 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Thanks for this Steve. I have the Chosen Few record but it has not been played in 20 years. I really wanted to know about the dance troupe - who chose the dancers and what were the dancers' names? I remember the episode vividly as it really put the underground scene on the front pages generating much ridicule, which sad to say, persists today.  Gethro Jones brings the topic up in his book and as a crack dancer at The Casino, understandably would be included in a collection of good dancers. When I was in Manchester in 1975, fellow student named Keith Jackson told me he was in Wigan's Chosen Few... a month later at the Casino, I asked Gethro if Keith Jackson was around and he said 'never heard of him'. Keith was from Wigan (or so he said) but evidently claimed some of the fame that rubbed off on the town - I wonder how many other lads claimed similar bragging rights at the time?

I can't help you with the names of any of the dancers, a couple of years too early for me.  They would have probably been approached by RW after the BBC contacted him, needing some dancers after finding out Wigan's Chosen Few didn't exist and Pan's People couldn't do back drops.  A few years later a couple of my mates appeared on the Saturday Banana along with Vernon and a few other Casino regulars.  At the time it would have been a big adventure, given a return train ticket to Southampton, put up in a hotel overnight, chauffeured to the Southern Television studios for a bit of a dance in front of a load of kids, and getting to meet everybody's favourite Goodie, Bill Oddie.  Unfortunately there's nothing in the archives because a lot of kids programmes used to get wiped because of the high cost of videotape back in the '70s.

11 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

I can't help you with the names of any of the dancers, a couple of years too early for me.  They would have probably been approached by RW after the BBC contacted him, needing some dancers after finding out Wigan's Chosen Few didn't exist and Pan's People couldn't do back drops.  A few years later a couple of my mates appeared on the Saturday Banana along with Vernon and a few other Casino regulars.  At the time it would have been a big adventure, given a return train ticket to Southampton, put up in a hotel overnight, chauffeured to the Southern Television studios for a bit of a dance in front of a load of kids, and getting to meet everybody's favourite Goodie, Bill Oddie.  Unfortunately there's nothing in the archives because a lot of kids programmes used to get wiped because of the high cost of videotape back in the '70s.

Sounds awful... The Goodies were just so excruciatingly bad even then. Great news there is no evidence of this, unless of course someone puts a clip up on YouTube...

On 03/11/2016 at 20:20, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Sounds awful... The Goodies were just so excruciatingly bad even then. Great news there is no evidence of this, unless of course someone puts a clip up on YouTube...

Sorry, the bad news is.....

23 minutes ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

 They would have probably been approached by RW after the BBC contacted him, needing some dancers after finding out Wigan's Chosen Few didn't exist and Pan's People couldn't do back drops.

Many are called but few are chosen

Matthew 22:14

I managed to see the clip for the first time since it was shown originaly. I never remember it as been so acrobatic based but loved it all the same. Loved the way Kim spun -  proper energetic. That said, there were lots of brilliant dancers on the scene  back then, many who's footwork used to mesmerise me.

13 hours ago, FRANKIE CROCKER said:

Sounds awful... The Goodies were just so excruciatingly bad even then. Great news there is no evidence of this, unless of course someone puts a clip up on YouTube...

I remember that clip very well as they had you all dancing to some dreadful record that was nothing to do with soul music!

15 minutes ago, Simon Child said:

I managed to see the clip for the first time since it was shown originaly. I never remember it as been so acrobatic based but loved it all the same. Loved the way Kim spun -  proper energetic. That said, there were lots of brilliant dancers on the scene  back then, many who's footwork used to mesmerise me.

I was interested like Frankie Crocker in who the dancers were - who was Kim / is she still around? Love the way she kicks off again after the break

The Dancers appeared on TOTPs twice and there was a slight change in the Dancers, they included Gethro, Jako, Steve Powell, Kim, Anne Rodgers

Kim was Gethros GF who he later married, she sadly died many years ago

Vernon told me that all the heats and the finals of a Wigan dance comp were filmed to show serving squaddies.. Now I would love to see a vid of that

So is anyone going to make a copy and post it here.  .   And no Venus, I'm not losing my bodily functions. 

"Kim tragically died of cancer at the tender age of 23. If I remember correctly she was the same age as me so she would have been 56 / 57 now". 

From Steve (Winsford Soul)'s comment on Dave Rimmer's review of Gethro's book - sad 

here's some related background

the 1975 billboard issue features a brief word about the promotion and production of the 45 in an article about european disco scene

also mentions a competition to find the best 3 'clappers'

all before my time tf!

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MREEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=RA1-PA63&dq=billboard "wigan casino"&pg=RA1-PA63&output=embed

image for reference...

8 minutes ago, mike said:

here's some related background

the 1975 billboard issue features a brief word about the promotion and production of the 45 in an article about european disco scene

also mentions a competition to find the best 3 'clappers'

all before my time tf!

Great article

16 minutes ago, maslar said:

So is anyone going to make a copy and post it here.  .   And no Venus, I'm not losing my bodily functions. 

To view the video you need to have a gmail or google account to send to Pete Smith who will then send you a link to view it.. Anyone on FB can send the link to Pete in a pm.. I'm sure plenty of folks have petes email address and could get the link via email