Upfront Or Way Behind Why?

....... its almost like bullying sometimes

What is?

Alex Ferguson was only saying the other day that he's like Nobby Stiles in midfield.

But he's had to move on.Nobby's had his day.Still held in high esteem,nothing can change that.

Bit like the NS scene.Hanging onto the old days.The days which defined what we all like.The days when there was no template to work from.Pioneering days.

All things change and move on,like Nobby.

Upfront or rare.Call it what you like.History in the making.Not replacing it.Just keeping it going.

You don't like it?.Stick with the classic nights.

Numbers at nights?.If you think 400 dancing to the Casuleers is your bag,then so be it.Lots of folks can move in and out from the Rare and Top 500 scene with no problems.Pity the same can be said coming the other way.

One last thing on this subject.If some views i've read were held BITD,lots of stuff would never have got an airing.

FFS Mark,,,,you've got me going again.

Kev

I'm surprised I haven't been told that there hasn't been a descent dancer found since Wigan/Stafford yet.............it'll be coming it always does

Cheers

Martyn

Kev

I'm surprised I haven't been told that there hasn't been a descent dancer found since Wigan/Stafford yet.............it'll be coming it always does

Cheers

Martyn

I've told you never to repeat my quote in public Martyn.

There are two issues with the rare northern scene First the DJ have too big a ego, we go to northern dos for the music not the DJs. Who want to here them talk between records, just play the music. And second the discernment has gone, just because its rare doesn't mean its good, there are too many DJ out there that think just because there was only one pressing of a track that its good, NO NO NO its because it was crap then and its crap now. I have been into Northern for 30 years and I have seen this happen before, play what the floor wants and not what the DJ wants. How many times do you see DJ never look up to see how many people are dancing he is just playing for himself, well stay at home and play with yourselves.

I've told you never to repeat my quote in public Martyn.

Kev

Shhhhhhhhhh..........can you hear the tapping of angry keyboards

Cheers

Martyn

At the end of the day people only have a certain amount of money to spend and choose where they want to go. Where they choose to go is nobody else's business but their own.

People should just do what they want and stop sniping at each other, the oldies crowd is as bad as the newies crowd and vice versa. Get to a venue and enjoy it while you can.

couldn't agree more...

couldn't agree more...

Paul

You can't be Mick's brother I've never known him agree with anyone

Cheers

Martyn

There are two issues with the rare northern scene First the DJ have too big a ego, we go to northern dos for the music not the DJs. Who want to here them talk between records, just play the music. And second the discernment has gone, just because its rare doesn't mean its good, there are too many DJ out there that think just because there was only one pressing of a track that its good, NO NO NO its because it was crap then and its crap now. I have been into Northern for 30 years and I have seen this happen before, play what the floor wants and not what the DJ wants. How many times do you see DJ never look up to see how many people are dancing he is just playing for himself, well stay at home and play with yourselves.

now there's a lovely big can of worms....... i take my hat off to you cant wait for to see the responses, have you actually spoken to any of the guys djing? it is patently obvious you havent.....!!!!!!!

i found it ironic that at lifeline the only people who stayed on the dancefloor (abt 5 dancers) , when a really leftfield and quite difficult dancer was played, where what the rarer crowd would call "the badge and vest brigade"

i hardly ever hear the classics crowd mention or critisize the rarer crowd , wish i could say the same vice versa , its almost a pathological obsession on here with some people

the classics crowd DO dance to underplayed , i think it was andy dyson who did a great classics set at brighouse this year , a lot of what he played wasnt what is usually heard there or typical classics , the dancefloor stayed rammed all the way through that set

That is because the so called oldies brigade as people call them DO want to listen to underplayed oldies sometimes and not the top 100.

It's just that some people so i have heard don't want to go to a rare and underplayed night and hear 98% Sixties Newies 2% underplayed.

O.K. maybe those figures are a slight exaggeration but you all understand what i mean.

It needs more of an even mix,and i have said that many times on here.

Both rare venues and oldies venues need to be a bit more flexible in what they are playing.

A couple of DJs at Prestatyn and Cleethorpes week enders tried this formula to great success with even some of the oldies brigade staying up dancing to sixties newies.

Ok fine if some venues want to just stick to sixties newies only,but then these people should not moan if they dont get many people attending.

now there's a lovely big can of worms....... i take my hat off to you cant wait for to see the responses, have you actually spoken to any of the guys djing? it is patently obvious you havent.....!!!!!!!

but why would anyone want to speak to dj's ?

but why would anyone want to speak to dj's ?

That's how I find the info I need to know about a particular record???

Cheers

Martyn

but why would anyone want to speak to dj's ?

i was referring to the ego comment

from my experience i have never experienced any but the opposite, if you want to find out about a record you havent heard before then surely the best source of the information you are looking for is the guy standing in front you spinning it for you

That's how I find the info I need to know about a particular record???

Cheers

Martyn

cheers martyn, glad you could see what i meant

Chris, if I remember correctly you came to Bidds about 2 years ago.

You seemed to hate everything about it, left relatively early (2 o'clock) and posted a lookback using bizarre descriptions such as "neo-doowop" after the event.

You have since managed to bring this up every time there is a discussion on rare/upfront events.

I don't even know why you attended in the first place as you clearly only want 100% known oldies all night.

I personally don't set my stall out for Bidds by how many people are on the dancefloor at any one time.

The night is geared towards obscure uptempo 6ts soul, R&B and latin dancers....but we don't set any bounderies.

Some tunes work, some don't.....the whole point of the night is to try them out.

Rob Smith has DJed there for me on a number of occasions.

The first time he asked me what I expected him to play.

I told him to play whatever the fcuk he wanted to.

He then asked if he should play to the dancefloor...so I told him not to worry about the dancefloor and to play whatever he wanted....again, the whole point of the night.

He loves the place and comes everytime, even if he is DJing at other nighters first.

That's what it's about (for me) at least, not as though I need to explain myself.

I don't honestly care if some people don't like what we do, there is more than enough overplayed oldies event on the calender to cater for these people.

We will never have a full house on a regular basis, I know that.

I could run it as an oldies nighter and fill it easily and make a shed load of profit, but I don't chose to.

Que sera sera.......

As I said after your initial lookback, thanks for coming along and giving us a go, and it's a shame that you didn't enjoy it.

However, we have always clearly advertised our music policy, and I have always been 'upfront' about the venue and it's facilities, so I don't feel I need to add any more than that.

Regards

Mace

maybe thats one of the reasons why people get confused though , a lot of the rarer venues can sometimes come across as being inconsistent with their music policys and in their advertising

even though the paying customer might WANT to hear something different , its hard to tell what kind of "different " its going to be

if that makes sense

It's the inconsistency of BIDDS that turns me on. You never know what you're going to get other than it'll usually blow your socks off and make your pants a bit damp

There are two issues with the rare northern scene First the DJ have too big a ego, we go to northern dos for the music not the DJs. Who want to here them talk between records, just play the music. And second the discernment has gone, just because its rare doesn't mean its good, there are too many DJ out there that think just because there was only one pressing of a track that its good, NO NO NO its because it was crap then and its crap now. I have been into Northern for 30 years and I have seen this happen before, play what the floor wants and not what the DJ wants. How many times do you see DJ never look up to see how many people are dancing he is just playing for himself, well stay at home and play with yourselves.

What an utter load of B*****ks

but why would anyone want to speak to dj's ?

The first thing i ask is which dj school they went to.

i was referring to the ego comment

from my experience i have never experienced any but the opposite, if you want to find out about a record you havent heard before then surely the best source of the information you are looking for is the guy standing in front you spinning it for you

Or when i ask,they usually tell me to go forth.

maybe thats one of the reasons why people get confused though , a lot of the rarer venues can sometimes come across as being inconsistent with their music policys and in their advertising

even though the paying customer might WANT to hear something different , its hard to tell what kind of "different " its going to be

if that makes sense

Not really.

Telling a credible DJ such as Rob Smith to play what he wants doesn't mean he will lose all common sense on how to put a great set together and just play random tunes regardless of genre and tempo.

It means that DJs like Rob get to play stuff they rarely get the chance to play.

It means that you don't have to stick to the tried and tested tunes or let the dancefloor reaction govern what you play.

It also gives the dancers a chance to decide if they like a tune or not, instead of spoonfeeding them the same old same old....surely that must be the laziest way to DJ?

As for confusing advertising music policies, I don't think I can be any clearer with what we offer and deliver at Bidds.

It's the inconsistency of BIDDS that turns me on. You never know what you're going to get other than it'll usually blow your socks off and make your pants a bit damp

I have that problem when i go to Bidds to Karen

Mace you should really get them toilets sorted

Best

Paul

PS Karen im gonna shut up "Int club style":lol:

Alex Ferguson was only saying the other day that he's like Nobby Stiles in midfield.

But he's had to move on.Nobby's had his day.Still held in high esteem,nothing can change that.

Bit like the NS scene.Hanging onto the old days.The days which defined what we all like.The days when there was no template to work from.Pioneering days.

All things change and move on,like Nobby.

Upfront or rare.Call it what you like.History in the making.Not replacing it.Just keeping it going.

You don't like it?.Stick with the classic nights.

Numbers at nights?.If you think 400 dancing to the Casuleers is your bag,then so be it.Lots of folks can move in and out from the Rare and Top 500 scene with no problems.Pity the same can be said coming the other way.

One last thing on this subject.If some views i've read were held BITD,lots of stuff would never have got an airing.

FFS Mark,,,,you've got me going again.

But if he'd got a proper Nobby Stiles Kev ( not a boot ) he would play him wouldn't he

How are you mate

Or when i ask,they usually tell me to go forth.

that'll be the ego kev

Trouble is in the talk of big ticket/big price rare records.........thats the wrong way of approaching it........dj,s these days have a small amount of records usually of a particular genre that they like...and thats whats wrong!!......sets at allnighters should flow from one dj to another blending the tempos whilst keeping the proceedings upbeat........What should happen is rare dancers,unkown dances,underplayed dancers,covered up dancers,black upbeat r&b dancers and well known oldies......should all be played within every set and this would make for superb music ALL NIGHT......what we get generally are sets of diffrent genres played from one dj to the next,that jar with one another i.e set of big oldies ....set of underplayed set of current spins and so on making for a totally up and down all over the place night (also known as something for everyone)......oh and of course the obligatory 4 o,clock onwards dreary old cut ya throat mid tempo derge (well thats what it becomes at nighters at that time, if ya not careful).........most dj,s don,t have enough tunes or put in enough thought.......the exceptions who do have enough tunes (no not just £1000 ers) but all those cheaper little tunes that make sets remembered i.e butch,andy dyson,cliff camfield,karl heard.....and a whole host of folk who never dj that much,but would set the place alight (given the chance)..........oh and the little matter of most folk don,t go out for the MUSIC only the social (all my nighter pals excluded lol ) so you could play shite sets all night and they wouldn,t notice .......well thats my take anyway peggy babcock

that to me is upfront and uplifting

Excellent post Terry

Didnt realise you were that intelligent

But i DO want to hear something different . What i DONT want is inconsistency month after month after month . Also the rare events can be clicky . Everyone (it seems ) is bezzy mates with the djs and promoters and if anyone dares to have an opinion contrary to "the click " wooooah ! your well out in the cold . Its not healthy . It stifles debate . Its a very conservative scene really . Love a lot of the music (possibly the best in the 35 yrs iv been going to events ) but its confusing month in month out at many venues

"it would seem to be a common theme that some of shall we say the more upfront rare soul venues are finding it difficult to get decent numbers through the doors, lost count how many times I read the music was brilliant but numbers were down, seems a little odd to me that when you look at the playlists many of the DJ's are playing top end records which command the big ticket prices on auctions etc. yet fail to draw the masses in which seems to make a nonsence to the whole rare soul ethic."

Here's the relevant part of Marks original posting - that's what I answered, nothing to do with oldies am beta dan rare hence my desire for the rare guys and gals to stop so defensive. Facts are facts, I hope my contribution answered the question.

"it would seem to be a common theme that some of shall we say the more upfront rare soul venues are finding it difficult to get decent numbers through the doors, lost count how many times I read the music was brilliant but numbers were down, seems a little odd to me that when you look at the playlists many of the DJ's are playing top end records which command the big ticket prices on auctions etc. yet fail to draw the masses in which seems to make a nonsence to the whole rare soul ethic."

Here's the relevant part of Marks original posting - that's what I answered, nothing to do with oldies am beta dan rare hence my desire for the rare guys and gals to stop so defensive. Facts are facts, I hope my contribution answered the question.

also lets not forget that possibly 20% that attend some of these well attended soul nights in the uk have probably never attended an in your face amphetamine fuelled nighter preferring very innocently to swig away on their Smirnoff Ice, drop their handbags down and have a good ole boogie to Goodbye Nothing to Say coz they just happen like the music.

also lets not forget that possibly 20% that attend some of these well attended soul nights in the uk have probably never attended an in your face amphetamine fuelled nighter preferring very innocently to swig away on their Smirnoff Ice, drop their handbags down and have a good ole boogie to Goodbye Nothing to Say coz they just happen like the music.

Paul in this area the figure is in my opinion much, much higher!

But i DO want to hear something different . What i DONT want is inconsistency month after month after month . Also the rare events can be clicky . Everyone (it seems ) is bezzy mates with the djs and promoters and if anyone dares to have an opinion contrary to "the click " wooooah ! your well out in the cold . Its not healthy . It stifles debate . Its a very conservative scene really . Love a lot of the music (possibly the best in the 35 yrs iv been going to events ) but its confusing month in month out at many venues

I don't understand what you're trying to explain. You want different but not inconsistent. Can you elaborate? Yes, bidds is different. Each month they play different records than the last. If that's inconsistent then thank the lord.

Not aimed at you personally, but a lot of people arrive at these places with the wrong mindset. When they don't hear familiarity they don't feel as though they belong.

I agree about cliquey folk though... who cares about them anyway

Yeah "defensive" There has always been banter from the dancefloor toward the djs but in the old days they took it on the chin and laughed it off BUT took note , they were professional about . Nowadays its like some big trauma if you dare say that you dont think a certain record makes a good dancer . Besides it might get back to them ha ha ha ha ha ha. F***ing hell ! and might be ostrasized from the click ha ha ha ffs

But i DO want to hear something different . What i DONT want is inconsistency month after month after month . Also the rare events can be clicky . Everyone (it seems ) is bezzy mates with the djs and promoters and if anyone dares to have an opinion contrary to "the click " wooooah ! your well out in the cold . Its not healthy . It stifles debate . Its a very conservative scene really . Love a lot of the music (possibly the best in the 35 yrs iv been going to events ) but its confusing month in month out at many venues

You may be confusing "clicky" with actual people who know each other.Very different concept.Be like me,i don't like anyone.

Next time you're out,introduce yourself.

Where's Mark Bicknell.... .Make it stop Mark.

Excellent post Terry

Didnt realise you were that intelligent

He's got a ghost writer.

I have that problem when i go to Bidds to Karen

Mace you should really get them toilets sorted

Best

Paul

PS Karen im gonna shut up "Int club style":lol:

He should after the last Bidds.How does Bidds keep getting a mention? Blatant advertising i say. (next one Dec 4th).

Its the only venue to have Winter and Summer under one roof.

Re soulgirl . Peggy said it better than i probably would . They music just seems allover the place somehow . Great post peggy and i think thats probably why some folks dont go as much . Maybe the rare scene needs to come together and have one big event every couple of weeks or whatever and with solid resident djs and guests of course . I think that would pull more punters in . Dunno, mite be wrong . Please dont me the wrong way , i know i can be too blunt sometimes though :-]

also lets not forget that possibly 20% that attend some of these well attended soul nights in the uk have probably never attended an in your face amphetamine fuelled nighter preferring very innocently to swig away on their Smirnoff Ice, drop their handbags down and have a good ole boogie to Goodbye Nothing to Say coz they just happen like the music.

A Hell Of A Lot Of People Danced To The Javells At Wigan And I Think A Blood Test Might Have Show Some Unusual substances showing up in well over 50% Of Them ! !

Re soulgirl . Peggy said it better than i probably would . They music just seems allover the place somehow . Great post peggy and i think thats probably why some folks dont go as much . Maybe the rare scene needs to come together and have one big event every couple of weeks or whatever and with solid resident djs and guests of course . I think that would pull more punters in . Dunno, mite be wrong . Please dont me the wrong way , i know i can be too blunt sometimes though :-]

We seem to be looking for very different things from a night, I don't want the same dj's every week, I don't want to hear the same records each week. Like any parts of the scene if you go to enough night's playing your chosen type of music you will get to know a percentage of what's been played.You have to put the hard yards in, travel to certain venues that play your type of music, beg steal & borrow CD's of your chose types of music, exchange knowledge with like minded people. Along the way you will make friends so if that's becoming bezzie mates with dj's & becoming part of the clique long may it continue, as finding out about the sounds that blows me away is massive part of my fun for me. If you just pop into the odd upfront do it will be different to you the next time you pop in,that's the all point. When I get to the odd modern night I don't complain they aren't playing the same stuff when I last came as I'm not up on what's been played on that part of the scene, I just enjoy what's been played or not in some cases.

Cheers

Martyn

Re soulgirl . Peggy said it better than i probably would . They music just seems allover the place somehow . Great post peggy and i think thats probably why some folks dont go as much . Maybe the rare scene needs to come together and have one big event every couple of weeks or whatever and with solid resident djs and guests of course . I think that would pull more punters in . Dunno, mite be wrong . Please dont me the wrong way , i know i can be too blunt sometimes though :-]

Maybe, just maybe, you (meaning anyone who frequents oldies/classics nighters) feel out of your depth much like when you start a new job. When you attend your regular nights you know a lot of folk but when you make the decision to try something different, where none of your regular friends are, you feel out of sorts which can definitely keep you in a negative frame of mind.

As is obvious, I'm a huge fan of events that play things far from the safe measurement on the soul stick and I'm not clique, knowledgeable or serious. I've been accepted by most who are as they understand that I'm there to enjoy the music which is the main point of these nighters.

If you choose to attend something different again, and I'm there, come say hi! I'll gladly chit-chat when I'm not on the dance floor

In fact, the next night I'm out it's up to Manchester for the Radcliffe allnighter. That's a very safe nighter to choose because the main hall is for everyone but you've got the choice of 3 other rooms to hear modern, R&B and the delicious rare/underplayed stuff in the soul or nothing room. I usually do the main room till 3 then soul or nothing till the end

LOL - this is just like a bollox talk on the way home from a niter; or on the phone days later trying to get to the meaning of it all...

and addressing Mark's first post, which has been digressed somewhat...

it has nothing to do with the current economic climate...people will find the entrance fee if they need to...

nothing to do with who spends the most on records - 'big ticket' prices, in the main are spent by oldies DJ's...

The FACT is there are not that many people on the 'rare' soul scene, maybe (and this is guess) 400 - 600 people

and that is it - demand over supply is the reason...or put that on it's arse - there are not that many of us!!

hence more than one 'upfront' venure on a weekend is not good news, as then folk have to make a decision - promoters on this limited scene can not afford to clash - forget on the same nite - the same weekend is pushing it!...

hello dave mate.........yeh what l said and what dave has just said

I took my blinkers off years ago and enjoy all sorts of music though the nighter scene aint my cup of tea for various reasons I love nothing better than receiving tip offs about underplayed stuff which start the collecting juices flowing.

However when will the rare soul fraternity who to their credit continue to support the likes of the 100 club. lifeline, wilton etc accept that there are possibly 1000's who each weekend like nothing more than to go out to a local venue, have a few beers dance and sing along to records they know the words too, not my cup of tea week in week out however those that enjoy that corner of the scene DO.

thats not what the question / comment was about

Decided a few months back i just wasn't going to worry about this sort of thing anymore and just get on with promoting a good night and the last Move On was a stunning night of soul

If people want to exclusively go to oldies nights, fine, free country and all that, but i wish people who make silly assumptions about rarely played nights would actually try them out once in a while. At Move On we play uptempo dance music all night (ask Trevor Wright, he wouldn't go anywhere that he couldn't have a good dance) and we play 60s, 70s, 80s, even new releases.

We're not a clique, we are a soul club where anyone is welcome, it just happens that most people know each other because many are collectors and dealers, and as for talking to the DJs we have people up at the decks every five minutes to ask about sounds and it's a pleasure for all the DJs to chat and share new finds etc... even criticism.

It just makes me smile and shake my head when people say that rare nights are all 60s newies and not for dancers. That's just complete rubbish borne of ignorance i'm afraid.

My advice is try it, and if you don't like it don't come back.

Whos Trevor Wright ??????

thats not what the question / comment was about

go on what was it about?

Like I said, another boring oldies vs. newness topic with the usual ignorant and ill informed comments and the usual derogatory remarks from people who don't attend the venues they are slagging off.

How can you claim a DJ has an large ego just because he plays something different an d having never spoken to them? some of the biggest egos I know attend/promote oldies only nights. Some of the DJ's who talk the most are on the oldies scene, fig anything DJ's on the so called upfront scene talk little.

And as for cliques, I agree but that is the same for any venue and any genre/facet of this scene.

Some (hidden?) agendas from some on this topic me thinks.

Excellent post Terry

Didnt realise you were that intelligent

give me a laptop at the next lifeline.........and we,ll see how good me posts come out

pm'd you 3 times now after you reported security concerns

no reply

your account seems to being used from two different pc/phones at the same time

have put your account on hold due lack of any response to pms

email me via the contact us to sort this

mike

Decided a few months back i just wasn't going to worry about this sort of thing anymore and just get on with promoting a good night and the last Move On was a stunning night of soul

If people want to exclusively go to oldies nights, fine, free country and all that, but i wish people who make silly assumptions about rarely played nights would actually try them out once in a while. At Move On we play uptempo dance music all night (ask Trevor Wright, he wouldn't go anywhere that he couldn't have a good dance) and we play 60s, 70s, 80s, even new releases.

We're not a clique, we are a soul club where anyone is welcome, it just happens that most people know each other because many are collectors and dealers, and as for talking to the DJs we have people up at the decks every five minutes to ask about sounds and it's a pleasure for all the DJs to chat and share new finds etc... even criticism.

It just makes me smile and shake my head when people say that rare nights are all 60s newies and not for dancers. That's just complete rubbish borne of ignorance i'm afraid.

My advice is try it, and if you don't like it don't come back.

Why do you feel the need to blatantly plug your promotion every time you post?????????? FFS.............

Why do you feel the need to blatantly plug your promotion every time you post?????????? FFS.............

I'm just using it as an example of the point i'm making. If there's a problem i'm sure the mods will tell me.

Why do you feel the need to blatantly plug your promotion every time you post?????????? FFS.............

hello phil..........another thought just came to me...........why does matt never attend any other upfront venues?.......just a thought mind...........as we are talking of upfront venues possibly having low attendances

I'm just using it as an example of the point i'm making. If there's a problem i'm sure the mods will tell me.

There is no problem as far as I'm concerned. If you'd put a date then maybe As far as I'm concerned you simply used your own venue and experiences to highlight your point.

hello phil..........another thought just came to me...........why does matt never attend any other upfront venues?.......just a thought mind...........as we are talking of upfront venues possibly having low attendances

what has it got to do with anyone where Matt or anyone else goes? Maybe the product on offer wasn't up to scratch or worth the journey?

"it would seem to be a common theme that some of shall we say the more upfront rare soul venues are finding it difficult to get decent numbers through the doors, lost count how many times I read the music was brilliant but numbers were down, seems a little odd to me that when you look at the playlists many of the DJ's are playing top end records which command the big ticket prices on auctions etc. yet fail to draw the masses in which seems to make a nonsence to the whole rare soul ethic."

Here's the relevant part of Marks original posting - that's what I answered, nothing to do with oldies am beta dan rare hence my desire for the rare guys and gals to stop so defensive. Facts are facts, I hope my contribution answered the question.

in the north west there are trilions of carbon copy clubs, ie clubs playing (the same classics) played out on pressings or cheap outa date in demanders ie well and truly played out five or ten years behind up front rarer clubs or nighters , i know of 3 of these clubs that are visited by the same people going to the same 3 clubs in rotation .they dance to all the same records from the previous week at one of the 3 other clubs in other words same people same records same clubs same er? dj's . no change nothing ?, they havent heard anything diferent since going t' casino 4 or five times in 1977 mrms re viseted over and over again 3 times a month if these are your er? facts my friend , need i say more !!