Upfront Or Way Behind Why?

Lifeline is always busy and absolutely rocking

Money is tight

P

Being very much out of the loop scene wise so from an outsider looking in as it were it would seem to be a common theme that some of shall we say the more upfront rare soul venues are finding it difficult to get decent numbers through the doors, lost count how many times I read the music was brilliant but numbers were down, seems a little odd to me that when you look at the playlists many of the DJ's are playing top end records which command the big ticket prices on auctions etc. yet fail to draw the masses in which seems to make a nonsence to the whole rare soul ethic.

Has the Northern scene become a retro nostalgia trip with little or no interest in different, lesser played or just quality rare soul? would it not be fair to suggest if the upfront or rare end of the music was that good then it would be better supported? or is it more down to attitude of the people trying to move it forward? or simply not that important to people who choose not to attend or support the upfront or different venues?

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Mark, Some of these lesser played and So called rarer sounds where not that good 40 yrs ago when they turned up in the Soul Bowl 100 packs and over 40 years they haven't got any better!! IMHO, but lots of Good Venues are down on Numbers in general as I think that the money is just not out there at the moment and people are maybe only going out one night over the weekend as opposed to 2 or 3 so they carefully plan the weekends.

Mark, Some of these lesser played and So called rarer sounds where not that good 40 yrs ago when they turned up in the Soul Bowl 100 packs and over 40 years they haven't got any better!! IMHO, but lots of Good Venues are down on Numbers in general as I think that the money is just not out there at the moment and people are maybe only going out one night over the weekend as opposed to 2 or 3 so they carefully plan the weekends.

who says they are all out of soul bowl packs Have you been to places like Lifeline? Plenty of other venues trying to introduce newer discoveries that are quality and not ex soul pack stuff, IMHO!

Another oldies vs. newies topic on it's way

who says they are all out of soul bowl packs Have you been to places like Lifeline? Plenty of other venues trying to introduce newer discoveries that are quality and not ex soul pack stuff, IMHO!

Another oldies vs. newies topic on it's way

Sounds like it!! I was just saying a lot of stuff that gets played as rare/underplayed has been around a long time and never did it!! Not all Rare/underplayed stuff!! Sorry Chalky did not make myself clear!!

Sounds like it!! I was just saying a lot of stuff that gets played as rare/underplayed has been around a long time and never did it!! Not all Rare/underplayed stuff!! Sorry Chalky did not make myself clear!!

Tastes change as people mature, we cringe at some of the stuff that was big way back in the day. A lot of stuff was simply over looked because of the volume of soul/northern soul that was out there back in say the 70's. DJ's could afford to be pickier and ignore stuff.

"the djs are playing top end records wich command the big ticket prices on auctions ect yet fail to draw the masses" the masses (rightly imo) dont care about the price of records they just want to dance and let their hair down . Also loads of people who used to go out every weekend just cant afford to anymore . recession mostly i guess

Someone once wrote "The North of England missed out on the sixties, so they had them in the seventies instead"

the NS scene was/is all about nostalga coupled with going out and having a good time. The rare soul scene has

always been a small one, more atune to collectors than dancers, it's no surpise at all that these venues don't

pull in the numbers that 'oldies' nights do. It's all a question of maths, NS touched something like a half a million

youths from 1969 to the present day, rare soul types can be counted in the hundreds.

Mark, Some of these lesser played and So called rarer sounds where not that good 40 yrs ago when they turned up in the Soul Bowl 100 packs and over 40 years they haven't got any better!! IMHO, but lots of Good Venues are down on Numbers in general as I think that the money is just not out there at the moment and people are maybe only going out one night over the weekend as opposed to 2 or 3 so they carefully plan the weekends. :ohmy:

Stoke still packs them in and the Torch revival has been a sellout both times, copled with the fact that there seems to be loads and loads events been held, surely "only the strong survive", maybe that rare soul scene is not so resilient.

Stoke still packs them in and the Torch revival has been a sellout both times, copled with the fact that there seems to be loads and loads events been held, surely only the strong survive, maybe that rare soul scene is not so resilient.

I don't think it is one particular facet of this scene that is struggling Chris, I think it is across the board, oldies, newies, modern. It is a sign of the times plus the fact there are too many events for too few people.

Someone once wrote "The North of England missed out on the sixties, so they had them in the seventies instead"

the NS scene was/is all about nostalga coupled with going out and having a good time. The rare soul scene has

always been a small one, more atune to collectors than dancers, it's no surpise at all that these venues don't

pull in the numbers that 'oldies' nights do. It's all a question of maths, NS touched something like a half a million

youths from 1969 to the present day, rare soul types can be counted in the hundreds.

Whats the difference between Rare Soul & Northern Soul ?, arnt they one & the same thing, unless of course your looking for a derogetery term to class the current 'proper' NS scene, the one everyone was part of back in the day, but most seem to prefer to wallow in nostalgia these days instead............nowt wrong with a good oldies night now & again, but what we have now at Lifeline, 100 Club, Bidds & a handful of others is actually the essence of what the original NS ethos was & should be about IMHO.

rUSS

Mark

There a few reason some upfront night's are struggling imo..........

Too many nighters to choose from & the nighter crowd shrinking by the week so it doesn't take Einstein to work out that numbers at some will be down, so some will have to go to the wall before the ones that are left will have good numbers.

Money is an issue which manifests in different ways such as people will choose a closer soul night rather then travelling a bit further to a nighter that will cost more to get in & less petrol money etc.

There does seem a general apathy amongst soulies who just seem resigned to the fact that oldies night's are going to take over no matter what happens as promoter don't seem to take the risk of running something different that won't get numbers through the door to pay for it.

I don't think it's the quality of music been played as personally I think there's some great stuff hitting the decks.

Cheers

Martyn

Being very much out of the loop scene wise so from an outsider looking in as it were it would seem to be a common theme that some of shall we say the more upfront rare soul venues are finding it difficult to get decent numbers through the doors, lost count how many times I read the music was brilliant but numbers were down, seems a little odd to me that when you look at the playlists many of the DJ's are playing top end records which command the big ticket prices on auctions etc. yet fail to draw the masses in which seems to make a nonsence to the whole rare soul ethic.

Has the Northern scene become a retro nostalgia trip with little or no interest in different, lesser played or just quality rare soul? would it not be fair to suggest if the upfront or rare end of the music was that good then it would be better supported? or is it more down to attitude of the people trying to move it forward? or simply not that important to people who choose not to attend or support the upfront or different venues?

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Dunno Mark

I Love it all me, and collect all the time !

60s obscure stuff / 60s oldies / detroit / chicago / funky bits / latin boogaloo / big city ballads / popcorn / rnb / jazz / etc... etc... etc....

I just can't be arsed going anywhere because I am a lazy twat

Trouble is in the talk of big ticket/big price rare records.........thats the wrong way of approaching it........dj,s these days have a small amount of records usually of a particular genre that they like...and thats whats wrong!!......sets at allnighters should flow from one dj to another blending the tempos whilst keeping the proceedings upbeat........What should happen is rare dancers,unkown dances,underplayed dancers,covered up dancers,black upbeat r&b dancers and well known oldies......should all be played within every set and this would make for superb music ALL NIGHT......what we get generally are sets of diffrent genres played from one dj to the next,that jar with one another i.e set of big oldies ....set of underplayed set of current spins and so on making for a totally up and down all over the place night (also known as something for everyone)......oh and of course the obligatory 4 o,clock onwards dreary old cut ya throat mid tempo derge (well thats what it becomes at nighters at that time, if ya not careful).........most dj,s don,t have enough tunes or put in enough thought.......the exceptions who do have enough tunes (no not just £1000 ers) but all those cheaper little tunes that make sets remembered i.e butch,andy dyson,cliff camfield,karl heard.....and a whole host of folk who never dj that much,but would set the place alight (given the chance)..........oh and the little matter of most folk don,t go out for the MUSIC only the social (all my nighter pals excluded lol ) so you could play shite sets all night and they wouldn,t notice .......well thats my take anyway peggy babcock

that to me is upfront and uplifting

Trouble is in the talk of big ticket/big price rare records.........thats the wrong way of approaching it........dj,s these days have a small amount of records usually of a particular genre that they like...and thats whats wrong!!......sets at allnighters should flow from one dj to another blending the tempos whilst keeping the proceedings upbeat........What should happen is rare dancers,unkown dances,underplayed dancers,covered up dancers,black upbeat r&b dancers and well known oldies......should all be played within every set and this would make for superb music ALL NIGHT......what we get generally are sets of diffrent genres played from one dj to the next,that jar with one another i.e set of big oldies ....set of underplayed set of current spins and so on making for a totally up and down all over the place night (also known as something for everyone)......oh and of course the obligatory 4 o,clock onwards dreary old cut ya throat mid tempo derge (well thats what it becomes at nighters at that time, if ya not careful).........most dj,s don,t have enough tunes or put in enough thought.......the exceptions who do have enough tunes (no not just £1000 ers) but all those cheaper little tunes that make sets remembered i.e butch,andy dyson,cliff camfield,karl heard.....and a whole host of folk who never dj that much,but would set the place alight (given the chance)..........oh and the little matter of most folk don,t go out for the MUSIC only the social (all my nighter pals excluded lol ) so you could play shite sets all night and they wouldn,t notice .......well thats my take anyway peggy babcock

that to me is upfront and uplifting

F*ck me, thats the most sense I've heard anyone speak on this subject for a long time, EUREKA !!!............Terry your a genius.

Russ

F*ck me, thats the most sense I've heard anyone speak on this subject for a long time, EUREKA !!!............Terry your a genius.

Russ

And i,ve been out all night and one of those disco thingys........hello russ

And i,ve been out all night and one of those disco thingys........hello russ

Hello mate...........I'm envious, stuck in Baghdad............but I'll be back soon with a vengeance, in your previous post you described my ideal night, wot a proppa Nighter should be like.

Russ

but what we have now at Lifeline, 100 Club, Bidds & a handful of others is actually the essence of what the original NS ethos was & should be about IMHO.

Russ

As you say, it's only your humble opinion..............

who says they are all out of soul bowl packs Have you been to places like Lifeline? Plenty of other venues trying to introduce newer discoveries that are quality and not ex soul pack stuff, IMHO!

Another oldies vs. newies topic on it's way

it won't be all that long before nobody knows what was and wasn't in soul packs...... all the information will become 2nd and 3rd hand.

speaking for myself I can only base how hard records are to find on how often I come across them now.

there is still plenty of brilliant music being played and thats the main thing.

As you say, it's only your humble opinion..............

So Chris, with all due respect, when you were going to the Torch you were listening to stuff you had known for years all Night then ???.

Russ

so what if a tune came out of a soul pack back in the 70's.................if you got a copy of the mello souls out of a soul pack ya wouldn.t be moaning..........there we go again associating rarity with being good.....(no arguement on this tune by the way )

example j.d bryant on shine.......f**king rare.......f**king shit pop tune

jackie lee.....do you believe on mirwood......f**king cheap.........f**king brilliant

I think in the old days we were spoiled.

A handful of Quality DJs with some great quality records rare and not so rare.

Also a lot less venues,so we all gathered under the same roof to all hear the same newies week in and week out.

So the tunes got mass exposure and became popular.

Fast forward to todays seen. Hundreds of Dj.s Playing hundreds of different newies in every corner of the uk.

Some good tunes and some not so good tunes.

So Example Tune {A} played by a DJ in Manchester who never plays anywhere else.

Tune {B} played by a Dj in Nottingham who never plays anywhere else.

So if i like tune B i have to go to Nottingham every time i want to hear it played out.

RESULT neither tune A or B gets exposed to the masses,so remains pretty unknown and obscure permenantly.

This is my findings on todays scene anyway.

No wonder people go to oldies nights,at least they can hear tunes they know and love anywhere in the country.

Stu.

I think in the old days we were spoiled.

A handful of Quality DJs with some great quality records rare and not so rare.

Also a lot less venues,so we all gathered under the same roof to all hear the same newies week in and week out.

So the tunes got mass exposure and became popular.

Fast forward to todays seen. Hundreds of Dj.s Playing hundreds of different newies in every corner of the uk.

Some good tunes and some not so good tunes.

So Example Tune {A} played by a DJ in Manchester who never plays anywhere else.

Tune {B} played by a Dj in Nottingham who never plays anywhere else.

So if i like tune B i have to go to Nottingham every time i want to hear it played out.

RESULT neither tune A or B gets exposed to the masses,so remains pretty unknown and obscure permenantly.

This is my findings on todays scene anyway.

No wonder people go to oldies nights,at least they can hear tunes they know and love anywhere in the country.

Stu.

well said stu, in my opinion if you go to an oldies nite, all the tunes you will hear are gaurenteed winners tried and tested and the dancefloor will will testify the fact.

Rod Shard has just been to visit and he has no bloody idea either lol on a serious note some interesting replies here, was not my intention to make this another oldies v newies thing more to ask why some venues with a more upfront music policy fail to get good numbers in when some of the music played at these venues gets the thumbs up and good press on the scene.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

so what if a tune came out of a soul pack back in the 70's.................if you got a copy of the mello souls out of a soul pack ya wouldn.t be moaning..........there we go again associating rarity with being good.....(no arguement on this tune by the way )

example j.d bryant on shine.......f**king rare.......f**king shit pop tune

jackie lee.....do you believe on mirwood......f**king cheap.........f**king brilliant

I thought it was just me that did not like J D Bryant.

I thought it was just me that did not like J D Bryant.

I dont like it either Dave

Always sounds to me like a poor attempt to sound like the Drifters

LOL - this is just like a bollox talk on the way home from a niter; or on the phone days later trying to get to the meaning of it all...

and addressing Mark's first post, which has been digressed somewhat...

it has nothing to do with the current economic climate...people will find the entrance fee if they need to...

nothing to do with who spends the most on records - 'big ticket' prices, in the main are spent by oldies DJ's...

The FACT is there are not that many people on the 'rare' soul scene, maybe (and this is guess) 400 - 600 people

and that is it - demand over supply is the reason...or put that on it's arse - there are not that many of us!!

hence more than one 'upfront' venure on a weekend is not good news, as then folk have to make a decision - promoters on this limited scene can not afford to clash - forget on the same nite - the same weekend is pushing it!...

LOL - this is just like a bollox talk on the way home from a niter; or on the phone days later trying to get to the meaning of it all...

and addressing Mark's first post, which has been digressed somewhat...

it has nothing to do with the current economic climate...people will find the entrance fee if they need to...

nothing to do with who spends the most on records - 'big ticket' prices, in the main are spent by oldies DJ's...

The FACT is there are not that many people on the 'rare' soul scene, maybe (and this is guess) 400 - 600 people

and that is it - demand over supply is the reason...or put that on it's arse - there are not that many of us!!

hence more than one 'upfront' venure on a weekend is not good news, as then folk have to make a decision - promoters on this limited scene can not afford to clash - forget on the same nite - the same weekend is pushing it!...

Careful Dave,

With posts like this you'll become known for spouting common sense rather than the usual gubbins you come out with

The FACT is there are not that many people on the 'rare' soul scene, maybe (and this is guess) 400 - 600 people

and that is it - demand over supply is the reason...or put that on it's arse - there are not that many of us!!

Nail hit head Dave.

Many pay lip service, very few make the effort.

To be honest i think 600 is generous.

Man flu aside ive only been out 3 times in the last 10 weeks, before that in the last 4 years ive harldy had a weekend with no soul, for us the travelling from Southampton to my favourite venues is becoming an expence we can hardly afford anymore, at least £100 for a night out and at least 4 hours minimum travelling for the pleasure, the travelling i actually enjoy but the look of the bank account at the end of the month i dont enjoy, we are being a lot more choosey now purely cos not only is it a lot of dosh but the music aint always cutting it and at times fooking boring beyond all belief, to get the soul fix we crave we need to travel 75% of the time, so if we do a localish event in a month and a to us decent nighter thats about all we can afford nowadays and if the music is not at least thoughtful and interesting we come home feeling empty and wondering why we bother sometimes,

For us its all about the music and with that the rest hopefully falls in place ie- freinds, socialising, atmosphere etc etc etc,

give me upfront and underplayed over any ATB or Oldies (same thing really) event any day,

Others i speak too are not only in the position of not being able to afford to go out as much as they used too they are also getting very bored with the music thats being played by the same djs week in week out, maybe the more upfront scene might benefit as peeps are looking to seek tunes to keep them interested, could this be the start of the resurgence coming to an end and the mid life crisis soulies going back to normal life, who knows but until there is less choice every weekend then numbers will get worse and worse over the next year or 2,

oh and Dave Abbott i think i agree with you but will check with my inner self for confirmation about upfront/rarer nighters being on in the same weekend, not enough peeps to go round and in this part of the scene LESS is definaelt best

laters

What should happen is rare dancers,unkown dances,underplayed dancers,covered up dancers,black upbeat r&b dancers and well known oldies......should all be played within every set and this would make for superb music ALL NIGHT

You've just perfectly described Lifeline!

And I agree that there are far too many events that dilutes attendances across the board. An event should be for the attendees and not to stroke the ego of the promoter.

So Chris, with all due respect, when you were going to the Torch you were listening to stuff you had known for years all Night then ???.

Russ

Russ

When I went to the Torch/Mecca/Cats/etc I heard sounds that I had only dreamed about, never heard, coming from London,

in 1972 hardly the centre for NS.

All I can say is what I see, when I go to a rare type venue I don't see alot of people, I went to BIDDS, didn't count but didn't look

like much more than 100/150 and I did count the people on the dance floor, never more than ten when we were there. When I

go to an oldies venue they seem to be larger and full, the dancefloors tend to stay full too. I hope this answers your question.

I'm sure for someone who's passionate about discovering new sounds it must be tough to see the oldies venues being

apparantly so succesful.

Chris

I took my blinkers off years ago and enjoy all sorts of music though the nighter scene aint my cup of tea for various reasons I love nothing better than receiving tip offs about underplayed stuff which start the collecting juices flowing.

However when will the rare soul fraternity who to their credit continue to support the likes of the 100 club. lifeline, wilton etc accept that there are possibly 1000's who each weekend like nothing more than to go out to a local venue, have a few beers dance and sing along to records they know the words too, not my cup of tea week in week out however those that enjoy that corner of the scene DO.

LOL - this is just like a bollox talk on the way home from a niter; or on the phone days later trying to get to the meaning of it all...

and addressing Mark's first post, which has been digressed somewhat...

it has nothing to do with the current economic climate...people will find the entrance fee if they need to...

nothing to do with who spends the most on records - 'big ticket' prices, in the main are spent by oldies DJ's...

The FACT is there are not that many people on the 'rare' soul scene, maybe (and this is guess) 400 - 600 people

and that is it - demand over supply is the reason...or put that on it's arse - there are not that many of us!!

hence more than one 'upfront' venure on a weekend is not good news, as then folk have to make a decision - promoters on this limited scene can not afford to clash - forget on the same nite - the same weekend is pushing it!...

Belgian Popcorn anyone ?

All I can say is what I see, when I go to a rare type venue I don't see alot of people, I went to BIDDS, didn't count but didn't look like much more than 100/150 and I did count the people on the dance floor, never more than ten when we were there.

Chris, if I remember correctly you came to Bidds about 2 years ago.

You seemed to hate everything about it, left relatively early (2 o'clock) and posted a lookback using bizarre descriptions such as "neo-doowop" after the event.

You have since managed to bring this up every time there is a discussion on rare/upfront events.

I don't even know why you attended in the first place as you clearly only want 100% known oldies all night.

I personally don't set my stall out for Bidds by how many people are on the dancefloor at any one time.

The night is geared towards obscure uptempo 6ts soul, R&B and latin dancers....but we don't set any bounderies.

Some tunes work, some don't.....the whole point of the night is to try them out.

Rob Smith has DJed there for me on a number of occasions.

The first time he asked me what I expected him to play.

I told him to play whatever the fcuk he wanted to.

He then asked if he should play to the dancefloor...so I told him not to worry about the dancefloor and to play whatever he wanted....again, the whole point of the night.

He loves the place and comes everytime, even if he is DJing at other nighters first.

That's what it's about (for me) at least, not as though I need to explain myself.

I don't honestly care if some people don't like what we do, there is more than enough overplayed oldies event on the calender to cater for these people.

We will never have a full house on a regular basis, I know that.

I could run it as an oldies nighter and fill it easily and make a shed load of profit, but I don't chose to.

Que sera sera.......

As I said after your initial lookback, thanks for coming along and giving us a go, and it's a shame that you didn't enjoy it.

However, we have always clearly advertised our music policy, and I have always been 'upfront' about the venue and it's facilities, so I don't feel I need to add any more than that.

Regards

Mace

Tastes change as people mature, we cringe at some of the stuff that was big way back in the day. A lot of stuff was simply over looked because of the volume of soul/northern soul that was out there back in say the 70's. DJ's could afford to be pickier and ignore stuff.

A Lot Of truth in what you are saying!! I sold up about 6 years ago and then started again about 4 yrs ago total different stuff Altogether!!

Chris, if I remember correctly you came to Bidds about 2 years ago.

I don't honestly care if some people don't like what we do, there is more than enough overplayed oldies event on the calender to cater for these people. We will never have a full house on a regular basis, I know that. I could run it as an oldies nighter and fill it easily and make a shed load of profit, but I don't chose to.

As I said after your initial lookback, thanks for coming along and giving us a go, and it's a shame that you didn't enjoy it.

However, we have always clearly advertised our music policy, and I have always been 'upfront' about the venue and it's facilities, so I don't feel I need to add any more than that.

Regards

Mace

I quoted BIDDS because that's the one that seems to be held up as an example of a forward looking soul event, maybe it is, maybe

it's not, maybe it's cutting edge music that people will look back and say "yeah that was cool" I'm sure that will be the case, thing is

it will be a small amount of people who do and hey!! that's their choice and right. I've been to about 5 venues where "rare soul" was

the main sort of music, just not my taste I'm afraid, I've heard little turns me on. Trust me there's a bunch of oldies I can't hear anymore

even some I've never liked much, I like to think I have an open mind, if I like it then I like it and visa versa.

Perhaps people who do promote the RS scene could tone down their ferociousness and be less defensive, after all it's

hardly a matter of life or death..................

F*ck me, thats the most sense I've heard anyone speak on this subject for a long time, EUREKA !!!............Terry your a genius.

Russ

Very,Very True! !

Perhaps people who do promote the RS scene could tone down their ferociousness and be less defensive, after all it's

hardly a matter of life or death..................

Maybe it's me, but it always seems to be the other way around, those who only want oldies slagging off the rare/obscure/upfront/unknown stuff as second rate 'B' sides / only rare cus no-one bought it in the first place etc etc etc.

Everybody who I know who is into hearing different stuff (whether it's Rare/newies/R&B etc) seem content to just crack on with what they are doing

I can attend oldies events from time to time and enjoy them for what they are.

I still have plenty of Northern Oldies in my collection and love them as much today as the first time I heard them....I just don't want to hear them everytime I go out.

Exactly the same goes for my passion for R&B and Latin.

We are all made of different stuff, and we all like different stuff.

It's what has made this scene as vibrant, passionate and varied as it is.

Of course the socialising and atmosphere is enhanced by greater numbers, and the Rare Soul scene is definately a minority compared with the Oldies scene.

It just seems (to me at least) that the latter is more bothered about numbers than the former....when it really should be about the music....otherwise, what scene is there?

I still have plenty of Northern Oldies in my collection and love them as much today as the first time I heard them....I just don't want to hear them everytime I go out.Exactly the same goes for my passion for R&B and Latin.

Actually I'm enjoying Belgian Popcorn and 70s stuff more than I ever did But nothing sends shivers down my spine than "the

Spellbinders - Help me" type of choon.....................after all it's wotz I woz born wiv..........

im gonna get slated for this

i think the classics scene is more of a dance scene and the rarer scene is more of a collectors/djs social scene now

i go to both and i love to hear stuff i havnt heard before and try to dance to it , even the difficult ones , ill try owt out

but (unlike the classics events) hardly any 70s get played at many rare events and ,to put it bluntly, a lot of it just isnt good soul dance music at all, just my opinion !

iv not heard anyone at the classics events say owt bad about the music being played at the rarer events , i dont think its that that puts them off attending

agree about dj bryant , horrible

Russ

When I went to the Torch/Mecca/Cats/etc I heard sounds that I had only dreamed about, never heard, coming from London,

in 1972 hardly the centre for NS.

Did you listen to the same music every time you went to a Nighter or did you enjoy the diversity ?

All I can say is what I see, when I go to a rare type venue I don't see alot of people, I went to BIDDS, didn't count but didn't look

like much more than 100/150 and I did count the people on the dance floor, never more than ten when we were there. When I

go to an oldies venue they seem to be larger and full, the dancefloors tend to stay full too. I hope this answers your question.

On 2 occasions this year that I know of Lifeline has been a lock out with the large car park full to capacity, one vehicle in, one out, rammed to the rafters all night long.

From what I'm lead to believe the 100 Club has been to capicty recently too.

I'm sure for someone who's passionate about discovering new sounds it must be tough to see the oldies venues being

apparantly so succesful.

I'm very pleased when any promotion is a success to be honest & I quite enjoy an oldies only night occasionally, but its a shame when people like your self who I respect immensely have to lower them selves to passive aggressive bullsh*t.

We all know that the original ethos of the scene was to discover, play & dance to obscure/unknown soul music & I'm sure no one would disagree with that would they? & to give exposure to those artists & records, its what made our scene different, the fact that we couldnt be commercialised & we discovered our own sounds instead of being force fed by the media...............

What happened mate, when did you abandon your soul & even worst try to defend your yourself with futile arguments that you know dont cut it............why not just say....."Cant Be Arsed Any more, just wanna beer it up & relive me youth', I would respect people more for thier honesty in admitting that, than trying to make those of us that still subscribe to what it should be all about look like we're in the wrong or summat. I'm just doing what I always did, how about you mate...........

BTW one last bitch before, CAN SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN A VENUE HAS A RELEVANCE ON HOW GOOD THE MUSIC IS ?.

rUSS

my tuppence worth......i think money has sumfin to do with overall numbers being down BUT...wot about those that are out....down here in the sw Des Parker probably introduces more new discoveries than most and i can remember being one of the few on the dancefloor a few years back to tunes that are now filling the floor....but 'most' people are not dancin to his newer plays when they probably will in a couple of years !!...it certainly takes longer to break tunes when there are twice as many venues as there was back in the 70s.....

but i do find it strange the old casino goers etc just wanting to dance to what they know when they were younger they craved for new tunes didnt they ?...so maybe age and 'it was better in my day' syndrome has sumfin to do with it....the yougsters at go go children who dont know the top 500 will dance to anything uptempo and soulful....and maybe there was an abundance of quality northern to pick from back then compared to now but you cant tell me tunes such as the parliaments,kindly shepherds,jt parker etc are not as good...

went to lifeline for the first time a few weeks back and loved it....angela davis/my love is strong is niccis new fave WOW what a tune !...will be upto stoke for the bidds alnighter...talking of stoke i love kings hall although some of the tunes are a bit same old the atmosphere and venue makes it...

so i think theres a place for us all...we should expect that most people will be into 'nostalgia' but also people (not just djs/collectors) should open their ears a bit to things they dont know....find the beat and dance..who cares if you dont know the words...lastly i dont think the price of a tune has anything to do with it after all most peole dont know what things are worth when they are out on the floor (gutted when i got back from lifeline and checked the book on the angela davis...600!)...but a good dancer is a good dancer...my best 'new' tune is raful neals/you dont love me no more...funky as f*** but with a rnb feel..love it and it cost me a fiver and only books at 15...happy daze

dean

i found it ironic that at lifeline the only people who stayed on the dancefloor (abt 5 dancers) , when a really leftfield and quite difficult dancer was played, where what the rarer crowd would call "the badge and vest brigade"

i hardly ever hear the classics crowd mention or critisize the rarer crowd , wish i could say the same vice versa , its almost a pathological obsession on here with some people

the classics crowd DO dance to underplayed , i think it was andy dyson who did a great classics set at brighouse this year , a lot of what he played wasnt what is usually heard there or typical classics , the dancefloor stayed rammed all the way through that set

Trouble is in the talk of big ticket/big price rare records.........thats the wrong way of approaching it........dj,s these days have a small amount of records usually of a particular genre that they like...and thats whats wrong!!......sets at allnighters should flow from one dj to another blending the tempos whilst keeping the proceedings upbeat........What should happen is rare dancers,unkown dances,underplayed dancers,covered up dancers,black upbeat r&b dancers and well known oldies......should all be played within every set and this would make for superb music ALL NIGHT......what we get generally are sets of diffrent genres played from one dj to the next,that jar with one another i.e set of big oldies ....set of underplayed set of current spins and so on making for a totally up and down all over the place night (also known as something for everyone)......oh and of course the obligatory 4 o,clock onwards dreary old cut ya throat mid tempo derge (well thats what it becomes at nighters at that time, if ya not careful).........most dj,s don,t have enough tunes or put in enough thought.......the exceptions who do have enough tunes (no not just £1000 ers) but all those cheaper little tunes that make sets remembered i.e butch,andy dyson,cliff camfield,karl heard.....and a whole host of folk who never dj that much,but would set the place alight (given the chance)..........oh and the little matter of most folk don,t go out for the MUSIC only the social (all my nighter pals excluded lol ) so you could play shite sets all night and they wouldn,t notice .......well thats my take anyway peggy babcock

that to me is upfront and uplifting

spot on. couldnt of said it better!!

Trouble is in the talk of big ticket/big price rare records.........thats the wrong way of approaching it........dj,s these days have a small amount of records usually of a particular genre that they like...and thats whats wrong!!......sets at allnighters should flow from one dj to another blending the tempos whilst keeping the proceedings upbeat........What should happen is rare dancers,unkown dances,underplayed dancers,covered up dancers,black upbeat r&b dancers and well known oldies......should all be played within every set and this would make for superb music ALL NIGHT......what we get generally are sets of diffrent genres played from one dj to the next,that jar with one another i.e set of big oldies ....set of underplayed set of current spins and so on making for a totally up and down all over the place night (also known as something for everyone)......oh and of course the obligatory 4 o,clock onwards dreary old cut ya throat mid tempo derge (well thats what it becomes at nighters at that time, if ya not careful).........most dj,s don,t have enough tunes or put in enough thought.......the exceptions who do have enough tunes (no not just £1000 ers) but all those cheaper little tunes that make sets remembered i.e butch,andy dyson,cliff camfield,karl heard.....and a whole host of folk who never dj that much,but would set the place alight (given the chance)..........oh and the little matter of most folk don,t go out for the MUSIC only the social (all my nighter pals excluded lol ) so you could play shite sets all night and they wouldn,t notice .......well thats my take anyway peggy babcock

that to me is upfront and uplifting

coudnt agree more

Alex Ferguson was only saying the other day that he's like Nobby Stiles in midfield.

But he's had to move on.Nobby's had his day.Still held in high esteem,nothing can change that.

Bit like the NS scene.Hanging onto the old days.The days which defined what we all like.The days when there was no template to work from.Pioneering days.

All things change and move on,like Nobby.

Upfront or rare.Call it what you like.History in the making.Not replacing it.Just keeping it going.

You don't like it?.Stick with the classic nights.

Numbers at nights?.If you think 400 dancing to the Casuleers is your bag,then so be it.Lots of folks can move in and out from the Rare and Top 500 scene with no problems.Pity the same can be said coming the other way.

One last thing on this subject.If some views i've read were held BITD,lots of stuff would never have got an airing.

FFS Mark,,,,you've got me going again.

....... its almost like bullying sometimes

i found it ironic that at lifeline the only people who stayed on the dancefloor (abt 5 dancers) , when a really leftfield and quite difficult dancer was played, where what the rarer crowd would call "the badge and vest brigade"

We don't call them anything, they are dancers at Lifeline end of. We don't promote cause we are collectors and want to hear records nobody can dance too either as mentioned earlier. We are first and foremost lovers of this scene, a dance scene and want to hear dancers and see a full dancefloor. But we have no wish to stand still and see simply a retro dance scene listening to the same couple of hundred records month in month out. There is more dancers than collectors at Lifeline and the same can be said of places like the Wilton and the 100 Club.

When I got into this scene it was an ever progressing scene, always looking for a new discovery and thats still what I try and seek out when I go to a venue. I love oldies but I love just as much hearing something I don't know.

At the end of the day there are too many promotions, simple mathematics will tell you there are not enough people to go round all these venues, what they play is irrelevant, the numbers are not there on a weekly/monthly basis.

It is ok Chris saying that Kings Hall/Torch reunion was rammed, but they are occasional events that will sell out, they bring people out of the woodwork and the part timers If you had Kings Hall every week it wouldn't be full, I doubt it would be half full. The Stafford reunion had well over a 1000 people in, many of those hearing many of the records for the first time, the dance floor was rammed ALL night.

At the end of the day people only have a certain amount of money to spend and choose where they want to go. Where they choose to go is nobody else's business but their own.

People should just do what they want and stop sniping at each other, the oldies crowd is as bad as the newies crowd and vice versa. Get to a venue and enjoy it while you can.

Alex Ferguson was only saying the other day that he's like Nobby Stiles in midfield.

But he's had to move on.Nobby's had his day.Still held in high esteem,nothing can change that.

Bit like the NS scene.Hanging onto the old days.The days which defined what we all like.The days when there was no template to work from.Pioneering days.

All things change and move on,like Nobby.

Upfront or rare.Call it what you like.History in the making.Not replacing it.Just keeping it going.

You don't like it?.Stick with the classic nights.

Numbers at nights?.If you think 400 dancing to the Casuleers is your bag,then so be it.Lots of folks can move in and out from the Rare and Top 500 scene with no problems.Pity the same can be said coming the other way.

One last thing on this subject.If some views i've read were held BITD,lots of stuff would never have got an airing.

FFS Mark,,,,you've got me going again.

Spot on imo