The Greatest Record Finds Of All Time 2008

I love looking at Album covers, much better than any art gallery. I even went through some of my Motown yesterday and took photos of some collectables and posted them on the Gallery. That familiar dusty, damp smell.

This thread has got me going again. Last night I phoned my pal who made some trips with me and we spoke about old times for over an hour. I even emailed an old contact in LA to say hello. I think my subconscious is planning a comeback trip. Better tell the wife. LOL.

At least we can now use S.S. to co-ordinate our trips so we don't all land at the same spot!

I'll be checking out a lead in Minneapolis/St Paul, then down to Madison where I clashed with some Japs in the 80's, then over to a basement in Fargo, then scooting over to Salt Lake City to have a sniff around there.

They still had juke boxes in Salt Lake City didn't they?

I won't just find Osmonds records by the ton will I?

Mind you, I found an Al Wilson "Help Me" promo in the middle of Cheyenne, Wyoming which is real cowboy country, so who knows?

On second thoughts maybe I'll just go to Florida as usual. I forgot about the missus and precocious 14 year old daughter so it looks like beaches and Bananas again LOL......

Ian D

At least we can now use S.S. to co-ordinate our trips so we don't all land at the same spot!

I'll be checking out a lead in Minneapolis/St Paul, then down to Madison where I clashed with some Japs in the 80's, then over to a basement in Fargo, then scooting over to Salt Lake City to have a sniff around there.

They still had juke boxes in Salt Lake City didn't they?

I won't just find Osmonds records by the ton will I?

Mind you, I found an Al Wilson "Help Me" promo in the middle of Cheyenne, Wyoming which is real cowboy country, so who knows?

On second thoughts maybe I'll just go to Florida as usual. I forgot about the missus and precocious 14 year old daughter so it looks like beaches and Bananas again LOL......

Ian D

Tut tut , Young Foggy .......

Malc Burton

I have been in Canada for 8 years now and during this time we have been to the States quite a few times with varying success. I always manage to find some Northern but havent, nor expect to find a big haul in these internet times.

Last summer we went to Indiannapolis for a wedding. We drove down on the Friday for the pre-wedding dinner and as the wedding was 4:00 on Saturday I had a few hours to spend looking around. There is a new, to me, chain in the US called Half Price books, they seem to be in most US towns and they are as they say, huge second hand book shops but they all have large record sections as well. There were 3 in Indiannapolis and I managed to find some decent Detroit and Northern 45's, probably 25 total for 25c each!! Not bad. Also got the Bob and Earl album that was on BC in UK but on Upfront? A NY label but probably a boot?

On the way down I had noticed a big Flea Market and as we were driving back Sunday afternoon I planned a stop. Got there and had a look around outside with no luck, inside there was a stall packed with records and some old red-neck guy sat behind a table. "Got any 45's?" Yes, underneath that rack"

Pulled 8 boxes out, about 300 in each box, and started going through them but first things were all Country but loads of MGM, Columbia, Epic promos. Kept ploughing through in the hopes of finding 1 decent one at least but no.. nothing.

Pushed them back and went to walk out when the guy launched into me "Who the f##k do you think you are?" "Dont treat my stuff like s##t" "You f##king English bastards come in here, go through my stuff, treat it like shit, never buy anything" By now all the other redneck sellers had gathered round, I was expecting some body to pull a shotgun out or something!! I made my excuses as I thought it wasnt wise to get into a row with them!!

As I said above I always seem to find something but never anything mega or any big hauls but then most of the time I am there as a tourist with non-vinyl types but always set aside a couple of hours on my own to look for records. They can be hard to find but there are still lots of vinyl only Record shops out there.

No, it's perfectly normal behaviour to sit in a damp, smelly basement covered in rat shit looking through hunks of plastic for that one elusive moment LOL!

Great story John! Many thanks mate.

I wonder if there's any other ex 60's Black Music DJ's who have their records in storage somewhere? George Woods must have had a few 'cos he was involved in labels too. E. Rodney Jones or Frankie Crocker anyone?

I once went to Nashville and had a stunning Album/12" hit from a C&W store. It was a Chicago DJ from the 70's and he'd moved to Nashville and just dumped a lot of his stuff in this one place. 600 items @ 50 cents apiece. Makes you wonder what he sold 'em for....

Ian D

Hi Ian,

Some great stories here-FYI-I lived in NY for a while and about 12 years ago,a record shop I worked in bought frankie crockers collection ,but only 12" and LP's-the 45's went somewhere else. There were 10's of thousands.Got some great 12's btw,everything had his 'stamp' on 'em and most were unplayed. Also FYI-Biggie Smalls was from brooklyn NOT the bronx,he wouldve been shot much earlier had he been selling drugs there!! Working in a second hand shop in NY in the nineties turned up lots of 'digging' stories-not a lot of northern soul as not many people were looking over there then.It was only James Brown and meters LP's that were over $100 !!! What a difference a couple of years made..!

At least we can now use S.S. to co-ordinate our trips so we don't all land at the same spot!

I'll be checking out a lead in Minneapolis/St Paul, then down to Madison where I clashed with some Japs in the 80's, then over to a basement in Fargo, then scooting over to Salt Lake City to have a sniff around there.

They still had juke boxes in Salt Lake City didn't they?

I won't just find Osmonds records by the ton will I?

Mind you, I found an Al Wilson "Help Me" promo in the middle of Cheyenne, Wyoming which is real cowboy country, so who knows?

On second thoughts maybe I'll just go to Florida as usual. I forgot about the missus and precocious 14 year old daughter so it looks like beaches and Bananas again LOL......

Ian D

Had a great holiday in St Petes in 2000, we had been up to Orlando for the first week and spent the next week just laying on the beach and eating great sea food at night. It was just after the spring break and it was not very busy at all.

I was staying at the Howard Johnson and I did make the long walk to Bananas, is it over a small bridge just as you get near it with a park on the left, past Crabby Bills? It was baking hot and I had gone there looking for the CD series called Soul Hits Of The 70s. I can remember walking in and looking at all the records, it was the first store I had been in since 94. I was just about to tell the manager that I used to come to the US looking for soul but I passed on the idea. Now, reading above that someone went into the same place and had a good hit, I am thinking, was it before or after 2000? I still have the manager's card, his name was Kit Fessenden.

To think that I used to go into small dusty places stacked with records in temperatures of well over 100 and not even take a bottle of water with me, some dives I have been in I had to literally crawl around on the floor to get to some records. Then you would go into a room and the only space inside was by the door with boxes stacked to the ceiling and the only way you could look at it all was by doing a rubic cube type operation on it all. Every now and then someone would come in and say "you guys ok in there, want a drink"? and you would be buried inside the room gasping for a drink or a slash but to engrossed in looking to want to stop.

Those were the days.

Great thread. Not been to the States myself so cannot claim any big finds like the guys above. Respect though!

When I started collecting in 1970 I remember there being loads of USA 45's in Tescos of all places. It was strange because in those days not many had seen a USA 45. They were on sale at 10p each and I must have bought hundreds to make a great start to my collecting. They all seemed to be soul as well.

Anyone else remember this? Where did they all come from? I remember driving around Merseyside from one Tescos to another chucking anything that looked remotely Northern into a basket. Ended up with 300+ copies of Ronnie Walkers "Your the one" which subsidised my record buying for a few months.

However the best hit I ever had came in the early 90's when I was working in a sleepy Devon market town, where I now live. I was reading one of JM's lists in the office, as you do, on the front was a picture of an Immediate label demo. A new woman to the office walks in and says I've got a few records like that with that funny big A on. My attention is grabbed and I start to quiz her. Seems she had worked for EMI during the 60's and was given lots of demos from their catalogue.

I arranged a visit to her house and in the garage were hundreds of Capitol, Motown, Stateside demos.

the first box I opened had a complete set of Beatles demos from Love me do onwards. After that it was soul heaven, lots of TMG 500's and 600's; Capitol stuff including an Alexander Patton which was strangely an issue about the only issue she had. The other starnge thing was she had a complete set of Immediate singles some with As others with promo stickers. Strange cos I thought this wasn't an EMI label.

I gave her a fair price for the soul stuff I wanted but couldn't in all conscience take the Beatles stuff, I knew it was worth more than I would pay so I directed her to an auction house.

Apart from the Beatles stuff everything else was filed in boxes in label and number order which made cherry picking easier. Unfortunately I did not have the funds to take the whole lot so only got about 200. Thinking I would go back. Unfortunately shortly after my visit her husband died and she moved away and I did not get a chance to go back to that garage.

It just shows that lady luck can strike any where.

Dave Banks

Hey, c'mon!

Does ANYONE remember that third-copy of the Invitations "Skiing In The Snow" story? It was the original 'cursed record' tale and would have been a best-seller for Steven King if he'd ever heard the story.

This is the 10 cent Woolworths U.S. find when the Invitations was the most sought-after record in the world and the guy who found it was travelling up to Stoke when he totalled his car, all the occupants and the 3rd "Skiing In The Snow" went up in smoke too.

Is this a myth, or did it really happen?

Can anyone out there verify?

Ian D

Could never rember Ricks name thats why I called him Richard and not RSearling of course

When did Rick find Mr Big Shot as I pulled 3 out of a box and then passed it to Rick but this might have been much later. God its so long ago.

At the time I was also in a rock band so I had quite abit of knowledge about rock music and thats why I got the part time job.

I worked not far from Oxford road so it took me just 5 miutes to get to Global although I lived out at SWinton.

What was Sizs name who worked at Stolen from Ivor - he was the one who came in with the box full of British from the big find.

Rick Cooper was the guy from Global .Cheers ,Eddie

This has been a fantastic thread, great stories by great people. Respect to one and all.

If you were to show some of these stories to the average person in the street it would be very hard for them to think that we were not indeed all mad. After all, risking life and limb for some sought after vinyl. Spending hours crawling around in smelly dusty hot places. Many will point to the financial gain, yes it is profitable but it was a real life adventure and to be part of it is something that can never be taken away.

Someday I would love to see a book about it all, or even a short film. Raiders Of The Lost Crate. LOL

Thanks so much for a great thread: it's what a forum like this should be all about.

Rick Cooper was the guy from Global .Cheers ,Eddie

Yep, I remember him well. Very shy and he think he had a stammer which obviously inhibited him but, boy, he knew his records and always had great spares, most likely from Global.

He was also the first person I heard play Al Kent's "The Way You've Been Acting Lately" - a giant of a record by any standards.

Wonder if he's still about?

Ian D

This has been a fantastic thread, great stories by great people. Respect to one and all.

If you were to show some of these stories to the average person in the street it would be very hard for them to think that we were not indeed all mad. After all, risking life and limb for some sought after vinyl. Spending hours crawling around in smelly dusty hot places. Many will point to the financial gain, yes it is profitable but it was a real life adventure and to be part of it is something that can never be taken away.

Someday I would love to see a book about it all, or even a short film. Raiders Of The Lost Crate. LOL

Copyright that title quick mcleanmuir or I'll nick it LOL!

And you're right. The adventure of it all was what got my veins pumping. I get bored incredibly quickly with most normal everyday routine stuff so I'm always on the lookout for some action and one of the things which fulfilled my needs was 'Crate-Digging In The U.S.A.' - sing along to Debbie Harry's "French Kissing In The U.S.A. if ya like LOL! © Ian Dewhirst 2008

So routine, boring everyday life really didn't suit me in those days and generally made me lethargic and lazy. But crate-digging had the opposite effect and energized and focused me in ways I liked. It's that feeling that the very next record could be the one....

It's probably similar to gambling or situated in the same part of the brain. Nothing like the adrenalin rush that you get when you find a totally unknown record which has all the right credentials. That's how I found Ronnie & Robyn on Sidra, Lennie Curtis on End and Wilbur Walton Jr on 123 all at different places, all at about 10p each and all within 20 miles of where I lived in Yorkshire at the time.

I think there's some good stories here and it's good to get 'em down anyway. Must be good for the brain 'cos every story I remember often triggers another one I'd completely forgotten about.

In fact Blake Halliwell mentioned one earlier in the thread which I can't remember - something about a pizza on a plane or something? Oh I just remembered! That one was from the 80's and not a Northern related fable.........

But that's what I mean. It's actually pretty theraputic getting all down anyway 'cos otherwise I might forget a lot of it.

However, the real credit to Soul Source for giving us the means to natter away. What a resource! Much better than TV LOL......

Ian D

In fact Blake Halliwell mentioned one earlier in the thread which I can't remember - something about a pizza on a plane or something? Oh I just remembered! That one was from the 80's and not a Northern related fable.........

Mention of Blakes name reminded me of how him and Kev Johnson went to some old boys place in London, only a few years ago, and picked up some amazing stuff!

Apparantley the guy had been a bit of a DJ, back in the day, and Blake got the Bobby Taylor on Mowest off him and other nice things!

Just goes to show, there's still some great bargains to be had, even on home turf!

Sorry boys... I just couldn't help myself!

I can't read anything you write, Ian, without expecting you to say . . .

"Needless to say, I had the last laugh . . ."

Mention of Blakes name reminded me of how him and Kev Johnson went to some old boys place in London, only a few years ago, and picked up some amazing stuff!

Apparantley the guy had been a bit of a DJ, back in the day, and Blake got the Bobby Taylor on Mowest off him and other nice things!

Just goes to show, there's still some great bargains to be had, even on home turf!

Oi! I always knew the Bobby Taylor on Mowest was a goody!

But my philosophy has always been that I'd rather have a record being used by someone who can really appreciate it rather then being stuck on my shelves gathering dust until I have another clear out. It was great that Blake picked that up and I was happy that he got it 'cos he's always been serious about his records. I think the bugger's sold it now though hasn't he? Anyone got a clip? It's a belter....

Crazy as it may sound, I quite often GIVE records to people who I know will really appreciate 'em if I think they deserve it! Usually it's artists - George Clinton got my Shirley J. Scott, Roy Handy and Tamala Lewis promos in the mid 90's 'cos he didn't have 'em. I've known him a long time - I was in the studio when they were recording "Flashlight" in the 70's. In fact, he gave me a typical L.A. bolivian welcome, so it's all his fault LOL....

I also gave Val Simpson a very rare Capital promo-only album at Birmingham last year which contained a dynamite live performance of "Found A Cure" which she'd never heard before (apart from when she sang it of course).

And I ALMOST gave Gloria Jones a weird 12" promo of "Tainted Love" I have @ Prestatyn (it's got the "Tainted Love" instrumental on). But she refused and signed it for me it instead.

I think a lot of karma is involved. Quite often records find me or I get access to a stash which hasn't been plundered, so I work on the basis of 'what goes around, come's around' and that's usually put me in good stead over the years. I've probably had 40 different collections. Also I like to revolve my listening habits so I generally have a pretty good choice and range of stuff kicking around over here.

As you can see, I'm going through a bit of a Nothern renaissance at the moment which is great 'cos I'm listening to lots of stuff

which I haven't heard for years......

And if I speak to any ex-collectors 'who've had their stuff in the loft for 30 years' I'll let ya know.

Never seen another copy of that Bobby Taylor though. It's deffo a RARE Mowest. Who did Blake sell it to?

Ian D

I can't read anything you write, Ian, without expecting you to say . . .

"Needless to say, I had the last laugh . . ."

LOL!

I'd NEVER wear a tie like that Rog. In fact, I wouldn't wear a tie at all..........

Funny episode that one......

Ian D

Great thread, fascinating to read this sort of stuff. My perspective is a little different - I grew up in Philadelphia (just blocks away from where the C.R.S. label was located) and got into soul by the early 90s, by which time I was in my late teens/early 20s, then moved to D.C. for quite a few years. I don't have any amazing stories to add, have always looked hard for 45s up and down the eastern seaboard and generally just bought small amounts at a time, never ran into big loads of quality stuff (but plenty of big loads of junk that produced a few gems after many hours/days of digging through 'em)......you guys surely got to a lot of it before I was old enough to be really heavily into it But yeah there's still stuff out there for sure, and the thrill of the hunt is very addictive.

I has an internship at Sigma Sound Studios in the 80s, it was part of a school project and I worked there for about a month, but I was too young and completely oblivious to what had happened there in the 60s & 70s, and clueless about soul in general as I was just 15 or so......I can only imagine what sort of records I could have bought had I asked around at the time!!

Thanks again for the awesome stories!!

Oi! I always knew the Bobby Taylor on Mowest was a goody!

But my philosophy has always been that I'd rather have a record being used by someone who can really appreciate it rather then being stuck on my shelves gathering dust until I have another clear out. It was great that Blake picked that up and I was happy that he got it 'cos he's always been serious about his records. I think the bugger's sold it now though hasn't he? Anyone got a clip? It's a belter....

Crazy as it may sound, I quite often GIVE records to people who I know will really appreciate 'em if I think they deserve it! Usually it's artists - George Clinton got my Shirley J. Scott, Roy Handy and Tamala Lewis promos in the mid 90's 'cos he didn't have 'em. I've known him a long time - I was in the studio when they were recording "Flashlight" in the 70's. In fact, he gave me a typical L.A. bolivian welcome, so it's all his fault LOL....

I also gave Val Simpson a very rare Capital promo-only album at Birmingham last year which contained a dynamite live performance of "Found A Cure" which she'd never heard before (apart from when she sang it of course).

And I ALMOST gave Gloria Jones a weird 12" promo of "Tainted Love" I have @ Prestatyn (it's got the "Tainted Love" instrumental on). But she refused and signed it for me it instead.

I think a lot of karma is involved. Quite often records find me or I get access to a stash which hasn't been plundered, so I work on the basis of 'what goes around, come's around' and that's usually put me in good stead over the years. I've probably had 40 different collections. Also I like to revolve my listening habits so I generally have a pretty good choice and range of stuff kicking around over here.

As you can see, I'm going through a bit of a Nothern renaissance at the moment which is great 'cos I'm listening to lots of stuff

which I haven't heard for years......

And if I speak to any ex-collectors 'who've had their stuff in the loft for 30 years' I'll let ya know.

Never seen another copy of that Bobby Taylor though. It's deffo a RARE Mowest. Who did Blake sell it to?

Ian D

It was only payback as I found out Ian was following me into Beanos in Croydon every week and hoovering up all the new stock, now there was a good place back in the day (the old shop in Surrey st) 000's of import 45s 10 p each or twenty for £1 Stevens & Foster, Trumains etc,etc.

First saw Ians massive collection at his flat in Headingley after a nighter but never got to look through.

Also remember Ian getting out a 50 count (CD single) of the Wizzards of Ooz "Tripping" saying you really need this, only bought 5 as I didnt know it at the time, big mistake as they flew out of the box at the next Soul Essence.

The Bobby Taylor 45 went with my collection when I divorced

Happy days

BH

Oi! I always knew the Bobby Taylor on Mowest was a goody!

But my philosophy has always been that I'd rather have a record being used by someone who can really appreciate it rather then being stuck on my shelves gathering dust until I have another clear out. It was great that Blake picked that up and I was happy that he got it 'cos he's always been serious about his records. I think the bugger's sold it now though hasn't he? Anyone got a clip? It's a belter....

Crazy as it may sound, I quite often GIVE records to people who I know will really appreciate 'em if I think they deserve it! Usually it's artists - George Clinton got my Shirley J. Scott, Roy Handy and Tamala Lewis promos in the mid 90's 'cos he didn't have 'em. I've known him a long time - I was in the studio when they were recording "Flashlight" in the 70's. In fact, he gave me a typical L.A. bolivian welcome, so it's all his fault LOL....

I also gave Val Simpson a very rare Capital promo-only album at Birmingham last year which contained a dynamite live performance of "Found A Cure" which she'd never heard before (apart from when she sang it of course).

And I ALMOST gave Gloria Jones a weird 12" promo of "Tainted Love" I have @ Prestatyn (it's got the "Tainted Love" instrumental on). But she refused and signed it for me it instead.

I think a lot of karma is involved. Quite often records find me or I get access to a stash which hasn't been plundered, so I work on the basis of 'what goes around, come's around' and that's usually put me in good stead over the years. I've probably had 40 different collections. Also I like to revolve my listening habits so I generally have a pretty good choice and range of stuff kicking around over here.

As you can see, I'm going through a bit of a Nothern renaissance at the moment which is great 'cos I'm listening to lots of stuff

which I haven't heard for years......

And if I speak to any ex-collectors 'who've had their stuff in the loft for 30 years' I'll let ya know.

Never seen another copy of that Bobby Taylor though. It's deffo a RARE Mowest. Who did Blake sell it to?

Ian D

I got a Bobby Taylor at a soul night recently for £30' ish which I thought very fair , great one eh Ian ? Best ,Eddie

No stories to add (yet) ...........................but love this thread thanks Ian

Cheers Paul

I've got some good stories to add. Trouble is I'm at work at the moment, but will try to put them on over the next few days.

They relate to a DJ in LA, gizza called Gabby who I meet when I was back packing in the late 80's.

To be continued

I've got some good stories to add. Trouble is I'm at work at the moment, but will try to put them on over the next few days.

They relate to a DJ in LA, gizza called Gabby who I meet when I was back packing in the late 80's.

To be continued

Work's no excuse mate. Please re-adjust your work/leisure balance and get the stories down!

No rush. I don't think this thread'll go away in a hurry.

There's at least half-a-dozen monster hits and several hundred bust-outs still to come from what I hear LOL.......

Ian D

So Mr D, what's with all this "Baby Boy" ? Were you born on a farm in Georgia ?

So Mr D, what's with all this "Baby Boy" ? Were you born on a farm in Georgia ?

No, it was purely the fact that I was young, innocent 21 year old at the time with a particularly baby-type face I presume LOL....

Ian D

Just wondered. Did anyone come across a big count of the immortal Joe Matthews on Koolkat with " Aint nothing you can do" ?Now that would make me cream my trousers! Great read this thread, great read.

Just wondered. Did anyone come across a big count of the immortal Joe Matthews on Koolkat with " Aint nothing you can do" ?Now that would make me cream my trousers! Great read this thread, great read.

If only Koolkat! I had to virtually beg, then remortgage to get one of the first copies! But what a track! A pure old time stomper just when we needed one back then. Every time someone would accuse me of playing too much 'modern' Carstairs, Anderson Brothers, Montclairs etc, I'd put "Ain't Nothing You Can Do" on to shut 'em the f*&k up LOL!

The missus managed to step on my original copy and snap one side of it when she was cleaning one day. The bitch is still in the cellar beginning forgiveness as we speak LOL.....

Still, I sold it to Gary from Leeds for a couple of hundred in the 90's 'because of the history of the record'. Great record. Loved those white demos as well (mine was an issue).....

Ian D

If only Koolkat! I had to virtually beg, then remortgage to get one of the first copies! But what a track! A pure old time stomper just when we needed one back then. Every time someone would accuse me of playing too much 'modern' Carstairs, Anderson Brothers, Montclairs etc, I'd put "Ain't Nothing You Can Do" on to shut 'em the f*&k up LOL!

The missus managed to step on my original copy and snap one side of it when she was cleaning one day. The bitch is still in the cellar beginning forgiveness as we speak LOL.....

Still, I sold it to Gary from Leeds for a couple of hundred in the 90's 'because of the history of the record'. Great record. Loved those white demos as well (mine was an issue).....

Ian D

..............I would of put her deeper than that! you would need a JCB to find her!

Up there with the best of all N/S records

If only Koolkat! I had to virtually beg, then remortgage to get one of the first copies! But what a track! A pure old time stomper just when we needed one back then. Every time someone would accuse me of playing too much 'modern' Carstairs, Anderson Brothers, Montclairs etc, I'd put "Ain't Nothing You Can Do" on to shut 'em the f*&k up LOL!

The missus managed to step on my original copy and snap one side of it when she was cleaning one day. The bitch is still in the cellar beginning forgiveness as we speak LOL.....

Still, I sold it to Gary from Leeds for a couple of hundred in the 90's 'because of the history of the record'. Great record. Loved those white demos as well (mine was an issue).....

Ian D

Yeah mine was an issue. You wont believe this but I bought it at the record bar upstairs at Wigan. It was my fave record at the time. God I used to pester Mr Searling to death to play this. He must have thought " heres that dickhead from Blackburn again wanting Joe Matthews" Fair play to the guy cos he always played it.This would be about 1975ish(I think). Only paid a pittance for it. There were 2 copies. I in my total ignorance thought it had been booted. It was only when I asked the question of authenticity of red as opposed to the white demos on this very forum that I found out it had never been booted as a red issue. I "lost" the record somewhere along the line when I dropped of the scene and went "ravin" Think an ex girlfriend might have had it away. Dont Know but believe me, Im pissed off it wernt booted on red . Grrrrrr!!!!!!!

Yeah mine was an issue. You wont believe this but I bought it at the record bar upstairs at Wigan. It was my fave record at the time. God I used to pester Mr Searling to death to play this. He must have thought " heres that dickhead from Blackburn again wanting Joe Matthews" Fair play to the guy cos he always played it.This would be about 1975ish(I think). Only paid a pittance for it. There were 2 copies. I in my total ignorance thought it had been booted. It was only when I asked the question of authenticity of red as opposed to the white demos on this very forum that I found out it had never been booted as a red issue. I "lost" the record somewhere along the line when I dropped of the scene and went "ravin" Think an ex girlfriend might have had it away. Dont Know but believe me, Im pissed off it wernt booted on red . Grrrrrr!!!!!!!

Maybe there was a curse on all the red copies of Joe Mathews LOL?

Also, it's REALLY rare! It's not like it's an easy record and between the two of us we've lost two precious copies. How daft is that?

Anyone NOT had a problem with their Joe Mathews issues? You know who to call...........

Ian D

Maybe there was a curse on all the red copies of Joe Mathews LOL?

Also, it's REALLY rare! It's not like it's an easy record and between the two of us we've lost two precious copies. How daft is that?

Anyone NOT had a problem with their Joe Mathews issues? You know who to call...........

Ian D

There could be a decent ending for me on this subject. I am back in touch with a guy after about 25 years. He is still in touch but only occasionally with the lady who might still have the disc. Shhhhhh! I suppose she will think it only fair to let me have it back wont she. Got to keep it quiet about the value side of things though. Im not gonna even tell my old buddy about this. And no he doesnt come on here. Thankgoodness. Right Im off to the boozer fer a cry in me beer!

Not a vast find, but still nice.

In the early 80's was in Fort Lauderdale, Florida on holiday. Had a day spare so thought I'd pop over to Sid Arthur's Oldies (Later King Arthurs). Spent the day going through boxes and did fairly well.

Now at this time, early Stafford, Richard had been playing Willie Tee-Please don't go, think Ian had a copy, but not many had turned up. Was just about to leave and thought I just look through the alphabetical section on the side wall. The store was know well so hadn't look before, went to the Willie Tee tab and there were 3 copies. Couldn't believe my luck.

Not a vast find, but still nice.

In the early 80's was in Fort Lauderdale, Florida on holiday. Had a day spare so thought I'd pop over to Sid Arthur's Oldies (Later King Arthurs). Spent the day going through boxes and did fairly well.

Now at this time, early Stafford, Richard had been playing Willie Tee-Please don't go, think Ian had a copy, but not many had turned up. Was just about to leave and thought I just look through the alphabetical section on the side wall. The store was know well so hadn't look before, went to the Willie Tee tab and there were 3 copies. Couldn't believe my luck.

Ha! I was hoping you'd come on Dave. How's the barn conversion going?

You were dead lucky with the Sid Arthur find! I seem to remember it being one of Ian Clark's regular haunts back then. I'm pretty sure I drew a zero when I dropped in there but I seem to remember finding some good albums the same day - James Mason, Lesette Wilson etc, etc so not a total bust. Talking of which, is Clarky still around? Haven't heard much about him lately......

And finding 'em in the actual main racks is always a heart stopper! I found a George Kirby in Oklahoma filed under 'George Kirby'. How weird is that?

Ian D

Ha! I was hoping you'd come on Dave. How's the barn conversion going?

You were dead lucky with the Sid Arthur find! I seem to remember it being one of Ian Clark's regular haunts back then. I'm pretty sure I drew a zero when I dropped in there but I seem to remember finding some good albums the same day - James Mason, Lesette Wilson etc, etc so not a total bust. Talking of which, is Clarky still around? Haven't heard much about him lately......

And finding 'em in the actual main racks is always a heart stopper! I found a George Kirby in Oklahoma filed under 'George Kirby'. How weird is that?

Ian D

Hi Ian

I'm sure you've heard life has been tough for him over the last few years, but he's fine. Which reminds me, haven't spoken since I got back, will give him a ring soon as. He always makes it to Soul Essence and sells on ebay.

Dave

Ha! I was hoping you'd come on Dave. How's the barn conversion going?

You were dead lucky with the Sid Arthur find! I seem to remember it being one of Ian Clark's regular haunts back then. I'm pretty sure I drew a zero when I dropped in there but I seem to remember finding some good albums the same day - James Mason, Lesette Wilson etc, etc so not a total bust. Talking of which, is Clarky still around? Haven't heard much about him lately......

And finding 'em in the actual main racks is always a heart stopper! I found a George Kirby in Oklahoma filed under 'George Kirby'. How weird is that?

Ian D

There used to be a Sally Army shop about a mile away, only a few 45's but had loads of LP's and multiples out the back. Got 10 copies of the Spyder Turner Lp, and 10 of the Kim Weston with 'Easy Street' and a couple of Mary Saxton. But that was then, probably not even there now. Also walked into Blue Note just a few days after it open, boy I did well, 45's & 12"'

I'm running out of 'em LOL.....

Where's John Anderson, Dave Raistrick, Arthur Fenn and everyone else when we need 'em?

One story I'd like to clear up was the third copy of "Skiing In The Snow" which was found in a U.S. Woolworths store for 10 cents, brought back to the UK but got destroyed in a car crash on the way to the Torch. Anyone know the full story?

Also, has anyone ever found copies of Robbie Lawson, The Twans, Don Varner, the Inspirations or any other ultra-rarities on a U.S. trip?

Similarly has anyone ever been prevented from buying records because they're English? It happened to me in Texas, when the minute the guy heard my voice he ordered me out of his shop because 'you English have been ripping us off for years'. I said, "well, do you want to sell records or not" and he said "no, not to you, you English scumbag"!

Another time I got talking to a guy in a shop and then got taken to a house in East L.A. to see some guy's collection and there was a card game going on with 4 very angry-looking black guys who thought I was a cop coming to bust 'em. One guy picked up a shotgun and another had a handgun - ever seen "Training Day"? Well, it was EXACTLY like that! They finally cooled down after I kept shouting "I'm English. I'm only looking for records"! The worst thing was that the so-called collection was terrible. Lot's of beaten up albums and nothing worth looking at. I couldn't get out of there fast enough......

A similar situation also happened when I was in Jamaica circa '77 and I thought I'd pick up some Dub stuff. I was on my way to the airport in a cab and I dropped in at Beverly's in Montego Bay and found about 30 serious dub albums and for some reason the woman refused to serve me. The shop started filling up with people and a nasty vibe started circulating and then the cab driver ran in and said if I didn't leave RIGHT NOW he'd be going without me. I had to send him back in to buy the albums for me LOL.....

I called round at a well-known record dealer in Terre Haute, Indiana, rang his bell, the door opened and a shotgun was levelled at my face. I did the usual - "Whoa, I'm the guy from England. Don't you remember we spoke on the phone"? And he said "well, we don't like strangers round here". Got some great stuff though.....

Oh and 18 months ago I went to the worst street in the Bronx three times (it was the street where Biggie Smalls used to sell dope) and each time the guy wasn't in! I had to walk through 3 gangs just to get in and out. By the third time it was a joke. The only way I made it each time is 'cos no one could quite believe that the same white guy would keep showing up @ 7.00pm every night and then hang around for two hours in the Soul Food cafe with the bulletproof glass! The annoying thing is, when I looked through the letter box the hallway was crammed from floor to ceiling with 45's! There was even a copy of "Alone With No Love" - Rock Candy on the floor. Very frustrating and obviously dangerous.

Also, I've got a great story about when I sold my Lada Edmund Jr demo when it was rare, but I'm saving that for later LOL......

Come on guys more stories please.....

Any situations which looked incredible but turned into super spectacular failures?

Like with records, the stories are out there. We just need to dig 'em out!

Ian D

Ian,

It looks like l have a bit of catching up to do on this thread!!!

Will be back later my friend.

Dave Raistrick.

Ian,

It looks like l have a bit of catching up to do on this thread!!!

Will be back later my friend.

Dave Raistrick.

Yep, you need to be in there for posterity Dave!

I KNOW you've had some brilliant hits but you probably don't shout about 'em like some of us!

And you must have been trailing round a lot of the mid-west to have ended up @ the 1940 Jukebox Company in the outskirts of Denver in late '89! So I bet you have some goodies to tell....

Note: record hunters can be particulary shy about their hits - it's the nature of the beast. Professional record hunters don't generally run around advertising their best hits otherwise there'd be a stampede of people checking the same locations. So we're very lucky to have some of these stories!

And the more the merrier!

Ian D

...Do you remember Steve Glover - a massive UK collector back then. He was from your way wasn't he?

Ian D

These threads are more like it! - I've been waiting for Max's "confessions" on where he got some of his records from for about 30 years! Let's have more stories in this vein, like where did Little Joe Roman come from Max?!

re. Steve Glover. He lived (and I think still does) in Sutton Coldfield, a suburb of Birmingham. I guess he got at least some of his UK demos from Reddington's Rare records in Birmingham in the late 60s/early 70s, as I know that Danny, the owner knew Steve quite well. I used to buy records from Steve when he had a stall in Birmingham Oasis, and used to bump into him socially at the Cats (and once at The Pendulum, Manchester!) - though I haven't seen him in many years, sadly. I went to his house a couple of times in the 70s and remember noting that he had several mint copies of Darrell Banks on London, (along with just about everything else on UK demo!) - and all still the in original pristine bags!

I reckon also that Steve occasionally took his UK label records up to the Cats for spins, such as Lou Johnson "Unsatisfied", Sandy Wynns, Dee Dee Sharp "What Kind Of Lady", Reperata & Delrons "Panic"(??) Max would confirm or deny this..

Incidently, I still have the copies of Sandy Wynns on Fontana and Mary Love on King that I bought from Steve at the Oasis C.1972! - and speaking of Reddington's, I once found a UK copy of Sam Dees "Fragile Handle With Care" in there, along with Ujima "I'm Not Ready" for £2.50 each, which will have to amount to my meagre store of "significant finds"!

Gonna have to copy and paste this entire thread so I can read it at leisure later...

These threads are more like it! - I've been waiting for Max's "confessions" on where he got some of his records from for about 30 years! Let's have more stories in this vein, like where did Little Joe Roman come from Max?!

re. Steve Glover. He lived (and I think still does) in Sutton Coldfield, a suburb of Birmingham. I guess he got at least some of his UK demos from Reddington's Rare records in Birmingham in the late 60s/early 70s, as I know that Danny, the owner knew Steve quite well. I used to buy records from Steve when he had a stall in Birmingham Oasis, and used to bump into him socially at the Cats (and once at The Pendulum, Manchester!) - though I haven't seen him in many years, sadly. I went to his house a couple of times in the 70s and remember noting that he had several mint copies of Darrell Banks on London, (along with just about everything else on UK demo!) - and all still the in original pristine bags!

I reckon also that Steve occasionally took his UK label records up to the Cats for spins, such as Lou Johnson "Unsatisfied", Sandy Wynns, Dee Dee Sharp "What Kind Of Lady", Reperata & Delrons "Panic"(??) Max would confirm or deny this..

Incidently, I still have the copies of Sandy Wynns on Fontana and Mary Love on King that I bought from Steve at the Oasis C.1972! - and speaking of Reddington's, I once found a UK copy of Sam Dees "Fragile Handle With Care" in there, along with Ujima "I'm Not Ready" for £2.50 each, which will have to amount to my meagre store of "significant finds"!

Gonna have to copy and paste this entire thread so I can read it at leisure later...

Get plenty of copy paper then Mel. Loads to go yet I think......

And a vexing question indeed: Where did that first Little Joe Roman come from? The first time I ever heard it was @ an All-Dayer @

Birmigham Locarno. The record didn't go North of Birmingham much in those days 'cos you Brummies had the only one for all those years. THAT was a rare record.

I think we should be told Max.......

Ian D

Yep, you need to be in there for posterity Dave!

I KNOW you've had some brilliant hits but you probably don't shout about 'em like some of us!

And you must have been trailing round a lot of the mid-west to have ended up @ the 1940 Jukebox Company in the outskirts of Denver in late '89! So I bet you have some goodies to tell....

Note: record hunters can be particulary shy about their hits - it's the nature of the beast. Professional record hunters don't generally run around advertising their best hits otherwise there'd be a stampede of people checking the same locations. So we're very lucky to have some of these stories!

And the more the merrier!

Ian D

Dave is far too modest to join in this thread (although he definarely should) Ian, even though he's had more hits than Cliff Richard!

One of the absolute TRUE Gentlemen of the UK Soul Scene.

Get plenty of copy paper then Mel. Loads to go yet I think......

And a vexing question indeed: Where did that first Little Joe Roman come from? The first time I ever heard it was @ an All-Dayer @

Birmigham Locarno. The record didn't go North of Birmingham much in those days 'cos you Brummies had the only one for all those years. THAT was a rare record.

I think we should be told Max.......

Ian D

Yes, Little Joe Roman was definitely played in 1974, and I have it on a tape of the last Cats allnighter in July of that year. Come to think of it, MOST of the early Northern finds on the Tuff label (both Bobby Treetops, E. Rodney Jones) got (first?) spins at the Cats. Hmmm... and where did Lou Pride come from? - Max was playing that in the autumn of 1974 I think.

It always amused me too that while Russ was playing the Epitome of Sound speeded up and covered as 'Moses Smith' at, er "that other venue", Max had been playing (both sides) at the Cats for ages under the correct name!

(PS. - We AIN'T "Brummies" Ian - we're 'Black Country' !)

Dave is far too modest to join in this thread (although he definarely should) Ian, even though he's had more hits than Cliff Richard!

One of the absolute TRUE Gentlemen of the UK Soul Scene.

Agreed. And far too modest for his own good on threads like this as you say! But Dave has been plugging away at the U.S. very quietly as long as I can remember so I'm sure he'll let us have a couple of stories - at least he's aware of the thread, so hopefuly he'll bash a few words down.

Actually, what I'd love to do, is take my trusty recording device and shoot round the UK interviewing EVERYONE who has been a regular stateside traveller and getting all their stories down for posterity. We are talking about another age where the UK record collectors were akin to the gold prospectors from earlier centuries. The book could even be called "The Northern Soul Prospectors"!

I dunno if it's my age and suddenly I feel the need to get things documented. My basic job has always been doing the same thing for music, so I've been a Music Compiler/Researcher/Re-Issue Expert/DJ all my life. Most of you will probably have some of my releases in your house hopefully whether it's Stax Northern Soul LP/Decca/London releases in the '70's, EMI/Island/Serious releases in the 80's, Mastercuts/Deep Beats/Rewind Selecta/Warner releases in the 90's and Motown/James Brown/Simply Vinyl/Salsoul/Original Selection/Northern Soul Story releases etc, in the 00's, so I've got a pretty good track record on this kinda thing. It's HISTORY. And we don't want it warped by Duffy do we LOL......

So I think the timing for something like this now seems right. It won't be long before the Northern Soul scene is 50 years old and will be ingrained in history as being a totally unique part of British culture. It's up to us to make sure it's done properly and accurately. Shit, I want a Northern Soul Museum godammit, so someone keep MINT copies of the records please!

We can dream!

Keep 'em coming.

You know it makes sense.

I'm in scholarly mode today. I have to audit my collection because it's outgrown the house LOL, so it'll be bye-bye to a few hundred old friends which I haven't played for a long time. If I find something brilliant I'll let everyone know.

So I'm kinda busy. So please someone boot Dave Raistrick, Kev, Graham Warr and the rest of the original prospectors into gear and let's keep this sucker rollin'........

Ian D

Yes, Little Joe Roman was definitely played in 1974, and I have it on a tape of the last Cats allnighter in July of that year. Come to think of it, MOST of the early Northern finds on the Tuff label (both Bobby Treetops, E. Rodney Jones) got (first?) spins at the Cats. Hmmm... and where did Lou Pride come from? - Max was playing that in the autumn of 1974 I think.

It always amused me too that while Russ was playing the Epitome of Sound speeded up and covered as 'Moses Smith' at, er "that other venue", Max had been playing (both sides) at the Cats for ages under the correct name!

(PS. - We AIN'T "Brummies" Ian - we're 'Black Country' !)

OK Mel 'Black County' Brat. Point taken LOL...

Interesting point about the Tuff stuff reaching the Black Country first. Why was that? And where did Max get that Little Joe Roman from?

Questions, questions.....

And I'm gonna take the credit for Lou Pride early plays. I bought it from Bob from Louth on a very foggy night back in '74 I think - maybe Bob can confirm the date - it was a Thursday night Northern do in Lincolnshire and there weren't many of them back then. I think I paid Bob £4 for it. I knew it would be a monster from the second I heard it but the title threw me slightly. What the hell was that all about? "I'm Com'un Home In The Morn'un"? Weird.

I remember the night well - especially coming back from the gig. I'd set off with my then flatemate, Kelly, from Hudderfield and it was a LONG journey in those days. Getting there wasn't too bad but I wasn't looking forward to driving back in the middle of the night - too much room for error in my opinion. We got about 30 miles into some serious country 'b' roads and actually passed a hitch-hiker at around 2.30am, literally in the middle of nowhere. We didn't stop 'cos he must have been a weirdo!

Driving along those long straight country roads @ 60mph @ 2.00am in the morning in deep fog meant that I missed a blind 90 degree left turn and went literally flying into a freshly ploughed field. Kelly and I got out and started trying to move the car but it was up to it's hubs in deep, sticky, freshly-ploughed mud and no matter how much I revved, the wheels just kept on spinning and only managed to send a huge wave of mud over Kelly. About 20 minutes later, the 'weirdo' hitch-hiker suddenly appeared out of the fog and offered to give us a hand in return for a lift. Turns out he wasn't a weirdo after all but just a guy who'd missed his last bus and decided to walk 25 miles. We used to do things like that in those days LOL...

Between the three of us we eventually managed to get the car back on the road. There was little collateral damage apart from wounded pride and a carful of mud. We dropped the hitch-hiker off and continued through the night eventually getting back to Huddersfield at 4.30am on Friday morning. Just time to have a cuppa, scrape the mud off our shoes, whack our clothes in the washer, get a bath, clean down the car both inside and out and.....leave for work!

So, with the best will in the world Mel, there is no way I'd ever forget the night I bought "I'm Com'un Home In The Morn'un".

Never has a title seemed so apt.

Ian D

These threads are more like it! - I've been waiting for Max's "confessions" on where he got some of his records from for about 30 years! Let's have more stories in this vein, like where did Little Joe Roman come from Max?!

re. Steve Glover. He lived (and I think still does) in Sutton Coldfield, a suburb of Birmingham. I guess he got at least some of his UK demos from Reddington's Rare records in Birmingham in the late 60s/early 70s, as I know that Danny, the owner knew Steve quite well. I used to buy records from Steve when he had a stall in Birmingham Oasis, and used to bump into him socially at the Cats (and once at The Pendulum, Manchester!) - though I haven't seen him in many years, sadly. I went to his house a couple of times in the 70s and remember noting that he had several mint copies of Darrell Banks on London, (along with just about everything else on UK demo!) - and all still the in original pristine bags!

I reckon also that Steve occasionally took his UK label records up to the Cats for spins, such as Lou Johnson "Unsatisfied", Sandy Wynns, Dee Dee Sharp "What Kind Of Lady", Reperata & Delrons "Panic"(??) Max would confirm or deny this..

Incidently, I still have the copies of Sandy Wynns on Fontana and Mary Love on King that I bought from Steve at the Oasis C.1972! - and speaking of Reddington's, I once found a UK copy of Sam Dees "Fragile Handle With Care" in there, along with Ujima "I'm Not Ready" for £2.50 each, which will have to amount to my meagre store of "significant finds"!

Gonna have to copy and paste this entire thread so I can read it at leisure later...

Mel

Reddingtons was an old haunt of mine in days gone bye

One time in there, I picked up 5 copies of Magic Carpet Ride : Kiki Dee on Fontana 50p each

and also had a Bottom & Company out of there along with lots of other stuff over the years

Last time I visited the store it had moved to a corner out of the way in an alley near to Rackhams, Sadly closed down now, happy memories though

Those images remind me of a Lock up me and a couple of mates were in, outside Baltimore, about 10 years ago.

Me, Tats Taylor, Rob Wigley and Bully were doing the rounds around Washington / Baltimore. On the Sunday we ended up at a Record Show in West Virginia.

I got chatting to a dealer (a Black guy named Jerome) selling a load of Soul LP's. Bought a few off him and then asked him if he had any 45's.

He said he had a Lock up full of stuff as he'd had a Record shop until '74 and when he closed up shop he had locked away his stock, just living off his thousands of LP's ever since.

I asked him if I could see them (it would have been rude not to ask). He said He'd think about it... and that I should telephone him that evening.

Me and the lads got back to the Hotel and I made the call around 7:00pm.

He told us to drive out to a Holiday Inn and meet him there 'Because you can't come into my area'.

We duly met him around 8 o'clock. Jerome appeared in a white Van, flashed his lights... we flashed back.. and he drove up to the side of our car. "OK" he says "Get in the back, lay on the floor... and don't look out of the window"

He drove for about 20 minutes with the four of us laid on the floor in the back. Eventually he pulled up outside a dark, unlit, Industrial Estate and told us it was safe to get out.

The lock up was just like those in John's picture. Wall to ceiling racks along both sides and the back wall.

He threw a couple of pasting tables into the middle of the room and started pulling boxes of 45's off the shelves. Must have been half a million 45's in there. Talk about kids in a candy store!

We'd set out on the trip for Bobby Reed's, Vivian Reed's, Cashmere's, and the like... and were well rewarded with everything we'd set out for... at a dollar each.

As we left (around 3:00 am) he told us he had just as many 45's at his house, but we were off home the next day and never got to visit.

I've still got his details though (the answer is NO... before you ask) and I'm off to the states next month... mainly around Memphis, but just might drop off and see if Jerome has any of his old store stock while I'm there!

...if one of you lot haven't beaten me to it!

Sean

Can you remember the song that was playing on the radio Sean, it was by a new Washington rap group called Hood brovers or something like it...the first line to the song was ( I quote)

"If you come 'round my 'hood white motherf***ker, I'll blow you F***king head off" repeat several times

nice tune--no wonder you were on the floor

Happy days and YOU got the bobby Reed from the next box to mine

rob

Can you remember the song that was playing on the radio Sean, it was by a new Washington rap group called Hood brovers or something like it...the first line to the song was ( I quote)

"If you come 'round my 'hood white motherf***ker, I'll blow you F***king head off" repeat several times

nice tune--no wonder you were on the floor

Happy days and YOU got the bobby Reed from the next box to mine

rob

Hi Rob,

Don't you ever wonder what we left behind? Especially when you consider that we each had a box at a time, to go through.

That means that we each only saw 25% of what was actually there (i.e. so did you, so did Tats.... and..... so did, a very young, Bully!).

What was in HIS boxes that he didn't spot?

I tell thi'.... I'm off to have another look!

Sean

Happy days and YOU got the bobby Reed from the next box to mine

rob

BTW.... Apart from that particular trip, I reckon You and Tats would be able to make some pretty awesome contributions to this thread... don't you?

Don't you ever wonder what we left behind? Especially when you consider that we each had a box at a time, to go through.

That means that we each only saw 25% of what was actually there (i.e. so did you, so did Tats.... and..... so did, a very young, Bully!).

What was in HIS boxes that he didn't spot?

I tell thi'.... I'm off to have another look!

Sean

Sean..................... I have to agree with you, Time in A Bottle and all that..... One that I did spot and put back tho........

"Build Youre Love On A Strong Foundation" Nah, I dont want that shite, The long arm of Tats did though

Great Trip Though.... Ask Jew Stones

I can also tell you what was in them, 6 copies of Stan Ivory on TESE. "Come Live With Me"

5 Issues and 1 demo.... which I eventually gave to Tats, exactly the same as the one that Manship sold on Auction for £434 this week. I think you all may have benefitted from that One Mate

The Bulmeister

Have been in some crappy places but one of worst that comes to mind was Eddie Threeway's, above a long-closed store in a really ropey part of New Orleans (and ropey in New Orleans means genuinely dangerous), had to clamber up up a ladder into an attic piled with thousands of records with no lights and holes in the floor you couldn't see, the ladder had to be locked up while you were up there or it would be stolen the area was so grim, for a $1 you could run an electric cord into a little barbershop next door for a lightbulb, but the thing that made it truly sad was the owner/seller, Eddie Jr, who used to run the store downstairs had been shot in there by a random bullet that had bounced off the doorframe and hit him and it left him partially paralysed for life, plus all the store stock downstairs was stolen while he was in the hospital, he never did find out who the bullet was meant for either but apparently the guy he thinks pulled the trigger ended up on the wrong end of a bullet himself soon after. Once got some great stuff at a lock-up that was led to by a guy who arranged to meet me by a payphone at a donut store by an offramp miles from anywhere, found reasonable stuff but nothing special until spotted one small box buried at the back away from all the other stuff, turned out he'd never got round to pulling it out before and almost every single thing was a goodie and all of $2 each - James Wayne on Key-Lan was first out the box I remember - so was feeling really great afterwards.....until realised I'd left a shoulder bag in his lock-up with my passport in it and he'd driven off and didn't have a cellphone, double doh! But yes it can be a lot easier when you magically find something filed neatly in full view in the stock section, still can't believe that in the same place that loads of people here have surely hit over the years found the Hyperions on Chattahoochee, Oliver Christian on Legrand, Soul Commanders on Lifetime and many more just sitting there in their clearly marked place, $25, $20 and $15 respectively, the owner now tends to look things up in the price guide but luckily JM in one of his guides had Tee and Cee and the LTD's under L instead of T so recently got charged $10 for that as he didn't spot it, thanks John!